Lomatium - Arches NP

[Iceaxe]

My hot young wife and I will be doing Lomatium Sunday morning as a casual canyoneering trip. If you are interrested in joining us send me a PM.


43727

[ratagonia]

My hot young wife and I will be doing Lomatium Sunday morning as a casual canyoneering trip. If you are interrested in joining us send me a PM.



How do you rig the big arch, Shane?

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Couple of big ass bolts. :lol8:












Ghost it baby. :2thumbs:

It Depends, I've done the route maybe a dozen times and rigged is several different ways. Last time was with a simple sling and pull cord.

[qedcook]

Getting ready to lecture him on proper canyoneering, eh tom? :nono: jk.

[Iceaxe]

Getting ready to lecture him on proper canyoneering, eh tom? :nono: jk.

Yeah.... I probably did it wrong. I can't believe I'm still alive..... :lol8:

This is from one of our trips. Yellow is the sling around the arch. Orange is rappel line and white is pull cord.

43731

[ratagonia]

Yeah.... I probably did it wrong. I can't believe I'm still alive..... :lol8:

This is from one of our trips. Yellow is the sling around the arch. Orange is rappel line and white is pull cord.

43731

Yah, man. That is SO WRONG!!!! Bluewater ropes???? At least you got the club pull cord.

No actually, I was just curious as to know how Ice did it.

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

Yeah... I tried to put that rope in my Imlay Kolob Pack and all hell broke lose.... it became such a big fight between the two I finally had to give the rope to one of my young guns to carry.

:lol8:

[moab mark]

If the new NPS plan says no webbing around arches then how are we going to do it? Sand Trap, Shane is last!!!:lol8:

[oldno7]

If the new NPS plan says no webbing around arches then how are we going to do it? Sand Trap, Shane is last!!!:lol8:

Lots of room for rope friction if one did use a trap.
Man, I'm glad I usually get to go first.............

[Scott Card]

So what you are sayin is that if it hold you it will hold anyone??? :haha:

[moab mark]

Little does Kurt know when he goes first the rest of the group just makes him think they are backing the trap up. :crazycobasa:

[Scopulus]

This is from one of our trips. Yellow is the sling around the arch. Orange is rappel line and white is pull cord.


Just curious... With the anchor tied so close to the arch, a 200' rope, doubled, probably gets you 12' from the ground or so. Do you tie a pull to the pull side of the rope and lengthen the rap side or do you use a longer rope?

Nice ice patch in the photo too. The dead of winter is a great time for lomatium.

[oldno7]

In Shanes picture, he is showing SRT with a biner block, not DRT.
I always figured the rappel at 120', bring rope and technique to match.

[Iceaxe]

FYI: In the picture above you will notice the pull chord is attached to the webbing going over the top of the arch. If you attach the pull chord to the webbing going under the arch you will more than double the friction and the pull becomes a real bitch. Just thought I'd mention that.... going over the top also lessens any wear on the arch, which I don't see as a problem unless folks start pulling ropes around the arch or something stupied like that.

If you rig it like the picture when you pull your rappel line the bottom half of the webbing drops away and you are only pulling a very short section of webbing over the arch and there is almost no friction. Good for you and good for the arch.

:2thumbs:

And use care when the webbing comes down. Those falling quick-links can be dangerous.

[oldno7]

Heres an optional way to rig the arch,
I put a figure 8 block on a 150'ish 8mm line, put a figure 8 on a bight on the end of that rope with a rapide,run your second 8mm line through the rapide(I have a 270' piece of 8mm) From this point you can have contingency while still allowing less experienced to rap on double strand 8mm, rather than single. You can also tie a Stone hitch here and have 2 lines for use. I would recommend having only one person at a time on rappel if using a stone, and the other getting rigged for rappel. I have lowered 2 people at one time with this system, but it is overly abrasive on the figure 8 on a bight if lowering over rock, even smooth rock. So protect the knot if attempting to lower 2 at a time.(I had a rope protector that velcro's on the rope, it's not in the photo's) Last man down has to convert this all over so as to be retrievable.

I did have one older gentleman almost flip over on the freehanging part here, so I think in some groups, a contingency is warranted.

I also rig my pull side as Shane mentions, ecxept I rig mine higher on the webbing to help keep it out of the way.

[Iceaxe]

You spelled photo with an "F". :roflol:

[ratagonia]

Just curious... With the anchor tied so close to the arch, a 200' rope, doubled, probably gets you 12' from the ground or so. Do you tie a pull to the pull side of the rope and lengthen the rap side or do you use a longer rope?




In Shanes picture, he is showing SRT with a biner block, not DRT.
I always figured the rappel at 120', bring rope and technique to match.

Kurt almost answered your question.

A fuller answer is "yes" to the first choice, tie something on the pull side and lengthen the rap side so the rope reaches the ground.

He is using single rope technique: the rappel side would be lengthened so there is one piece of rope that runs from the anchor to the ground. The pull side also runs from the anchor to the ground, but might have some knots in it, and some miscellaneous crap tied in to get the length to get to the ground.

The sling retrieval side also can have knots in it.

You make an odd assumption that he is using a 200' rope; and perhaps that his 200' rope is actually still 200' long after being used for a bit. The requirement for the 120' rap is ONE 120 (at least) foot rope, and at least 360 feet of usable stuff total.

Tom :moses:

[oldno7]

Kurt almost answered your question.


Tom :moses:

But that's only fitting as I'm only, "almost a canyoneer", Once I get my Powell Baptism over I will be complete.:haha:

[CarpeyBiggs]

:lol8:

[Scopulus]

You make an odd assumption that he is using a 200' rope; and perhaps that his 200' rope is actually still 200' long after being used for a bit. The requirement for the 120' rap is ONE 120 (at least) foot rope, and at least 360 feet of usable stuff total.


Odd I concede, however my assumption was that he may not using 200' and therefore must be using one of two solutions (my syntax may not have been clear:crazycobasa:). Thus the question.

1) Extra pull tied to the pull side?
or
2) Rope length sufficient for last man to unblock and double rope?

Done that route 6 or 8 times and have always packed either 100s or 200. Planning on a 200' double rope for last man only works by extending the anchor about as far as you dare. Also, been with some big boys -- the double rope is their preference to help control descent.

Anywho...just curious which he was using, as the rigging pictured would still hold true for either scenario 1 or 2.

Sorry for pulling the post off subject. How was the trip?

Steve L.

[Scopulus]

Heres an optional way to rig the arch,
...Last man down has to convert this all over so as to be retrievable.

Thanks for sharing that optional rigging. I assume last man just reverses the block to the opposite side of the rope (the side with the 8 on a bight) and raps off the single w/o pulling or re-rigging anything else?

[oldno7]

Thanks for sharing that optional rigging. I assume last man just reverses the block to the opposite side of the rope (the side with the 8 on a bight) and raps off the single w/o pulling or re-rigging anything else?

You could certainly do it that way, I'm not that trusting. Too much hardware depending on the pull.
I usually attach the double strand to my harness(would suck to drop your rope), take everything down to the 2 rapides on the webbing ends, unscrew rapides, drop rope in tighten, rap.
Then I'm only pulling the rope sans hardware, after it is down, then I pull the webbing.
I think leaving it all rigged, while reversing the block could complicate a pull.

[oldno7]

I really want to emphasize protecting the figure 8 on a bight from abrasion if using this contingency system. I hear it will abrade through the knot rather quickly.(don't ask how I know):haha: