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Iceaxe
03-15-2011, 01:49 PM
The following is posted with the permission of David Cicotello. This is an accurate account of what occurred in No Man's Canyon last week.


This account of the events leading to Louis Cicotello's death on Sunday March 6, 2011, in No Man's Canyon relies in large part on the memories of Louis' brother, David Cicotello, who was with Louis and who then survived for six days until rescued by Wayne County Search and Rescue on Saturday, March 12. David talked to Ted Maynard, Michael Campbell and Rex Welshon on five different occasions between Saturday night, March 12 and Monday night, March 14. With David's expressed permission, Ted and Rex have compiled the following. David has approved it.

David and Louis entered the North Fork of No Man's Canyon on Sunday, March 6, about 9:30 am. They successfully went through the canyon and reached the last rappel at 1:00 pm. They planned to eat lunch at the bottom of the rappel and then walk up the old horse trail back to the rim. This particular rappel is a two-stage affair, the first part being about 40 feet down to a ledge, the second part being about 100 feet down to the ground. They had a 200 foot dynamic 10 mm climbing rope with them. In rigging the second rappel, Louis threaded a long piece of new webbing (with a rappel ring attached) through a biner clipped into the existing bolt and hanger on a wall next to the ledge. This long loop of webbing extended down from the bolt hanger over a sloping ramp about twenty feet long and almost to the edge where the rappel proper begins. Upon completing the anchor, Louis fed one end of the rope through the rappel ring, located the midpoint of the rope, and threw both strands down. A biner block was not employed and the ends of the rope were not tied together. Louis clipped into the rope using a variable speed ATC. He backed down the ramp to the rappel ring and safely loaded the anchor. Upon reaching the edge, he recommended that David be careful not to get his hands pinched between the rope and the rock as he came over. He then went over the edge from the ramp and informed David that he was on the free portion of the rappel. David lost sight of Louis. A few seconds later, Louis called up to David that he could see that the ropes were unequal but that it was "no biggie." Those were his last words. Almost immediately, the rope whipped through the rappel ring and disappeared out of sight below.

David could not see Louis but called out to him. There was no reply. Stranded on the ledge without a rope and desperate to help his brother, David rummaged through his pack and found a length of static rope used to lower packs over short drops, some webbing, and an etrier. He knotted them together and realized that it was not long enough to reach the bottom. He tried climbing up the previous rappel but could not make it. Louis had brought a bolt kit and an Ibis hook, but both were in his pack at the bottom. David was ropeless and 40 feet down from the top of the pour-off and 100 feet above the bottom. He had a liter bottle full of iced tea/lemonade, another small bottle of water, an orange, a sandwich, a high energy bar, some cashews, some matches, a flashlight, a knife, extra wool socks, and a jacket.

David figured no one would come looking for him until the following Friday, six days hence. He and Louis were on the second day of a trip that was planned to go through to the next Thursday. They had already done Lost Spring Canyon the previous day and were planning on driving from No Man's down to Cedar Mesa to go through Cowboy and, conditions permitting, Maidenwater. Then they were going to drive back up into the Swell, descend Music, and finish the trip with Greasewood Draw as dessert before checking into a motel on Thursday night and calling loved ones. David determined then and there that he would have to survive until Friday. He took his pack apart, removed the foam back, and began his vigil. He allowed himself two ounces of water or tea per day, one segment of orange, a bite or two of sandwich and energy bar, and a few cashews. At night, he collected detritus from the ledge and started small comfort fires. He inserted the foam pad under his shirt to keep his core body temperature up. Attaching the wool socks to his baseball cap allowed him to keep his ears and parts of his face warm at night. During the day, he watched animals and birds come to the pool at the foot of the big rappel to drink water, and each night a bat flew out from above him on its nightly rounds.

David had left with his girlfriend a detailed map of their camps and the nights they intended to spend at each. On Friday morning, David's fiancee called Louis' wife in Colorado Springs and the two of them called Hanksville BLM, the San Juan County sheriff office (Cowboy), the Emery County sheriff's office (Music and Greasewood), the Wayne County sheriff's office (No Man’s and Lost Spring), and anyone else they could get hold of to hear out their concerns. Since I was familiar with these areas (Louis, David, Ted, Mike, and I have done more than fifty canyons together, although we had never been down No Man's), late on Friday I emailed details about each camp and each trailhead to Louis’ wife, who then forwarded the email to the SARs and sheriffs. Wayne Country SAR got a helicopter up that night and, with all of our information in tow, flew over the No Man's drainage, locating Louis' truck at the trailhead.

David heard the helicopter that night and knew that he was going to be rescued. He had thrown out the last few bites of his sandwich on Wednesday when it had rotted, and he tossed the small amount of remaining tea on Thursday after it became rancid. By Friday evening, he was down to an ounce of water, a few cashews, and one slice of orange. He told himself he would not drink that last ounce until he heard a rescuer call his name. Reason: he refused to look at an empty water bottle.

Under the leadership of Sheriff Ernie Robinson, Wayne County SAR was on the scene first thing Saturday morning. Ted, Mike, and I left Colorado Springs at 8:00 that morning. We caught up with Louis' wife at Ray's Tavern at about 2:00 pm (she had caught the 6 am flight to Grand Junction and rented a car). Thank goodness for cell phones – as we were driving, we were on the horn with Louis' wife, Dave's girlfriend, and the search team on-site. We talked with both Sheriff Robinson and the helicopter pilot and suggested that they focus exclusively on the North Fork of No Man's, and, in particular, inside the slot rather than any of the surrounding country. Sheriff Robinson sent in a team from the top and landed a team down below the big rappel. Flying back up the drainage, the pilot spotted a long piece of webbing protruding from the ramp on the middle of the big rappel. David had fashioned a HELP sign from parts of his equipment (webbing, his foam pad, some tape, and a couple of biners) and was dangling it at the end of the webbing. The helicopter passed over once, twice, and then a third time. Within an hour or so, David heard the team coming up from below and called out. The team coming down from above rescued David soon after. He was immediately airlifted to Moab hospital at about 1 p.m., rehydrated, and released that evening.

The four of us -- Ted, Mike, Louis' wife, and I -- were in Hanksville by 2 pm, where we were met by Sheriff Webster. He informed Louis' wife that Louis had not made it but that David was alive. We drove out the Roost Road and had just turned toward the South Fork of Robber's Roost and the Ekker ranch when we saw a helicopter fly over, heading to No Man's. Arriving ourselves there a few minutes later, we were introduced to Sheriff Robinson and watched the helicopter lift off down canyon to recover Louis' body. An hour later, the helicopter returned with him. Sheriffs, search team, helicopter, and the four of us caravanned out of the Roost together right at sunset, reaching Hanskville about 8:30. We talked with David for the first time later that evening.

This is an extraordinarily difficult time for the families. David’s incredible endurance, intelligence, loyalty, and toughness are immediately countered by Louis’ tragic death. The family is grateful for all the condolences and well-wishes received. We would like to express our deepest thanks to Sheriff Robinson, Sheriff Webster, Sheriff Micah (sorry, we don’t know Micah’s last name), and all the other members of the Wayne County Search and Rescue team. They worked tirelessly, professionally, and expertly to save David’s life and recover Louis’ body. We would also like to thank Magleby Mortuary in Richfield for their equally professional and expert service to Louis’ wife.

It will come easily to some in the canyoneering community to speculate about what happened after David lost sight of his brother on the second stage. David doesn’t know. I don’t know. You don’t know. David reported that Louis voiced no concern when he mentioned the short end and that his last words were “no biggie.” Louis never cried out, his voice never trailed off, and his landing was not loud. There was no damage to the rope or to his ATC. These facts suggest to David, Ted, and me that Louis may have made it a good way down the rappel before something went wrong and that he may have been trying to jump the last few feet when he rapped off the short end and landed badly. But this is a best guess only and admittedly one fueled in part by wishful thinking.

It will also come easily to some in the canyoneering community to speculate about whether this accident could have been avoided. No doubt it could have been. But the woulda-coulda-shoulda game that inevitably follows an accident of this sort should be tempered by the following knowledge. Louis was an expert mountaineer, a 5.10 rock climber, and, until this accident, a reliably safe canyoneer. He had probably done more than 600 rappels. True, he was 70 years old, but he had the body of a 50 year-old marathoner -- a little bruised and battered but structurally sound. He had been climbing for more than 30 years. He had been a desert rat for at least 25 years and a canyoneer for the last 13 years. He did three or four desert trips a year, some technical, some non-technical. On our trips he usually set the anchors because he was so meticulous about it, making sure to balance forces and establish redundancies wherever possible. We always checked each other’s anchors, set-ups, and clip-ins.

It’s true that Louis didn’t knot the rope ends before the last rappel. We don’t know why – we typically did on longer rappels and on rappels with blind landings. We suppose also that he could have used a biner block at the rappel ring. It certainly wouldn’t have been foolproof, but it might have worked if, as we suspect, he rapped off the short end a little higher than he had been anticipating. No doubt others can think of even better Monday morning solutions.

Louis loved canyoneering and enjoyed reading the canyoneering websites and keeping up with the latest news. He communicated with Shane Burrows and Ryan Cornia on beta on a few occasions. For reasons that neither of us understand, we’ve never met any of you Bogleyites or Yahooians out in the boonies. We’re sorry that you never had the opportunity to get to know Louis, for we believe that had you known him you would miss him as much as we his family and friends now do. He was an extraordinary man – a Yale MFA in sculpture, much-loved professor and former chair of the Department of Visual and Performing Arts at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs, astonishingly good chef (we ate like kings and queens on our trips), devoted husband to his wife Millie Yawn and a marvelous father to their daughter Sarah. Two years ago, Millie and Louis welcomed their first grandchild, Olive. He was enthusiasm incarnate. He was also constitutionally generous, kind, intellectually wide-ranging and deep in his areas of expertise, and hilariously funny. Louis taught my twelve year-old son Calvin how to clean a fish and he helped rescue Calvin from the bottom of Munchkin last year when Calvin got his foot stuck. If I may, I’ll let Calvin have the last word: “he was one in a trillion, Dad.”

oldno7
03-15-2011, 02:02 PM
Wish friends and families of Louis nothing but the best, in these trying times.

Thanks for the write up.

Brian in SLC
03-15-2011, 02:55 PM
Sad and sobering. My condolences.

accadacca
03-15-2011, 03:08 PM
My condolences. Sad story. Louis sounds like an incredible man.

Iceaxe
03-16-2011, 08:34 AM
The more I think about David sitting for 6 days on a ledge with just his day pack and not being able to move or get help for his brother.... dang... that would be really tough ordeal and difficult burden to carry forward with.

Sombeech
03-16-2011, 10:24 AM
The more I think about David sitting for 6 days on a ledge with just his day pack and not being able to move or get help for his brother.... dang... that would be really tough ordeal and difficult burden to carry forward with.

To not even see or know what happened, that would be terrible. On a slightly positive note, he knew how much time he had to ration his food and water.

saline
03-16-2011, 11:34 AM
Very sad to hear. Our condolences to the family. We had thought about going into No Man's on the March 6th but ended up gong into Robber's Roost instead. I wish that we could have been there to help.

Alex
03-16-2011, 01:15 PM
Very sad indeed.

P.J.
03-16-2011, 03:14 PM
Thanks for the report, iceaxe. Makes you realize how fragile life is, and how quickly things can change. And one of the hardest things for me as well was thinking of him sitting there on the ledge, not knowing for sure (but pretty sure) what happened.

Scott Card
03-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Incredible story of survival and courage. Sad to hear of this loss. My thoughts and prayers go out to this family.

I am curious to know what you all think is the solution to the above problem if you are doing toss and go and you rap to the end of one of the strands of rope. Solution? Yes I know about tying the rope together but assume you don't do that. Then what? May want to split this thread at this point so as not to get into a technique debate on this thread out of respect if that is appropriate. I am, by the way, in no way trying to offend anyone but I am trying to assess a situation that may happen again if not already happening. I think the solution is quite easy but if you haven't thought it through then well....

rex welshon
03-16-2011, 04:44 PM
The photo displayed and identified as Louis Cicotello is in fact his brother David Cicotello. Here's Louis (well, if I did things right, here's Louis; not too experienced with attaching stuff here). Thanks, and thanks too for all your good wishes and condolences -- they mean a lot! Rex Welshon

Iceaxe
03-16-2011, 04:50 PM
I seldom/never tie the ends of my rappel ropes together. I've had more problems with the bottom knot getting stuck and causing issues then the practice is worth, at least to me.

And I know many canyoneers, myself included, that don't worry too much about the rappel ropes being even. It's pretty simple and common to hold one line and rap on the other to get the rappel lines to even out.

Maybe he simply lost control of the rappel line with his brake hand.... easy enough to do.... and if that was the case a knot or biner block wouldn't have helped a bit. It would be interesting to know if there were rope burns on his hand.

:cool2:

JP
03-16-2011, 07:15 PM
Thoughts and prayers are with the Cicotello family.

I would never expected to see a 70 year old look as he did. We all would be blessed to achieve that. Rest in peace Louis.

denaliguide
03-16-2011, 07:44 PM
I seldom/never tie the ends of my rappel ropes together. I've had more problems with the bottom knot getting stuck and causing issues then the practice is worth, at least to me.

And I know many canyoneers, myself included, that don't worry too much about the rappel ropes being even. It's pretty simple and common to hold one line and rap on the other to get the rappel lines to even out.

Maybe he simply lost control of the rappel line with his brake hand.... easy enough to do.... and if that was the case a knot or biner block wouldn't have helped a bit. It would be interesting to know if there were rope burns on his hand.

:cool2:

also curious to know if there was any rope still in his descender.

my condolences to his family.

ratagonia
03-16-2011, 07:54 PM
also curious to know if there was any rope still in his descender.

my condolences to his family.

Since he took the rope with him, it seems one side was still in his descender, at least enough to pull it down.

Tom :moses:

Bubbles
03-16-2011, 09:41 PM
Back in the day I was rappelling into a swimmer on double strand when one side didn't reach bottom. Just before the short end ran through my ATC, I was able to stand on a ledge 12-15ft above the water. Instead of feeding the rest of the rope through my ATC and jumping, I (stupidly) just jumped, facing up canyon.

Instead of falling feet first, the friction from the last foot or so of double strand in my ATC, and some friction up at the anchor, caused me to pivot at my belay loop and rotate backwards, and I hit the water leading with my upper back/shoulders. A lot of rope came down with me and was still in one end of my ATC. Not all of it though.

Had the landing been on solid ground, I would have (not jumped) been in a bad way. Had I been on free rappel when the double strand went through my ATC, I would have been more likely to be parallel to the ground (back first) instead of perpendicular (feet first), and the friction through the device would have pivoted me on to my head.

Iceaxe
03-17-2011, 07:39 AM
I intentionally rappeled off the end of a short rope once. The rope ended about 5' above the ground so I figured I'd just drop the last little bit and land on my feet.... nope... when the end of the rope passed through my ATC is flipped me onto my back... Lesson learned...

rex welshon
03-17-2011, 01:31 PM
If I may, I'd like to add a couple of comments. There were no rope burns on Louis's hands. His glasses were still on his face when he was found. His visage was peaceful and there was no evidence of head trauma or suffering. The official cause of death is a broken pelvis. A full autopsy report is forthcoming.

Based on these and the other details mentioned in Ted's and my earlier account, we believe that he rapped off the end of the rope fully expecting to land what he perceived to be a reasonably short jump. We also believe that the most likely cause of his fatal injury was a bad landing.

I'm sorry to have posted a picture of Louis without a helmet. Despite all of our efforts, he just wouldn't wear one -- old dog just wouldn't learn that particular new trick.

A memorial service for Louis will be held on Saturday, March 19, 3:00 pm, in the Lodge at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs. In lieu of flowers, Louis's widow Millie asks that donations be made to the Wayne County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue Team in Louis Cicotello's name. Their address is:

Wayne County Sheriff
Search and Rescue
PO Box 219
Loa, UT 84747

Cash or hard copy checks only, please -- the local bank does not have facilities to process credit card donations.

Thanks

Wayne County SAR
03-18-2011, 06:44 PM
As a team member in the rescue and recovery in no man's canyon, I would like to offer my condolences to family and friends and thanks to the family and friends present for their kind words at the end of a difficult and emotional search. One small suggestion to those entering our canyons, if you could leave a detailed route map on the dash of your vehicle, visible through the windshield so we can know where to begin our search should you be overdue. We always begin our search at the vehicle. A good map or written instructions of your intended route could save precious time should a search occur. Stay safe and I hope you enjoy our canyons as much as I do. Thanks, Don

ratagonia
03-18-2011, 06:52 PM
As a team member in the rescue and recovery in no man's canyon, I would like to offer my condolences to family and friends and thanks to the family and friends present for their kind words at the end of a difficult and emotional search. One small suggestion to those entering our canyons, if you could leave a detailed route map on the dash of your vehicle, visible through the windshield so we can know where to begin our search should you be overdue. We always begin our search at the vehicle. A good map or written instructions of your intended route could save precious time should a search occur. Stay safe and I hope you enjoy our canyons as much as I do. Thanks, Don

Good points, thanks Don.

Tom :moses:

denaliguide
03-18-2011, 08:25 PM
As a team member in the rescue and recovery in no man's canyon, I would like to offer my condolences to family and friends and thanks to the family and friends present for their kind words at the end of a difficult and emotional search. One small suggestion to those entering our canyons, if you could leave a detailed route map on the dash of your vehicle, visible through the windshield so we can know where to begin our search should you be overdue. We always begin our search at the vehicle. A good map or written instructions of your intended route could save precious time should a search occur. Stay safe and I hope you enjoy our canyons as much as I do. Thanks, Don

thanks don, for the work of you and your team.

Iceaxe
03-18-2011, 09:01 PM
thanks don, for the work of you and your team.

x2

oldno7
03-19-2011, 05:58 AM
Thanks Don, I've worked on SAR, it is a very tiring, thankless voluntary job, but the most rewarding also.

mr. incognito
03-24-2011, 11:55 AM
I intentionally rappeled off the end of a short rope once. The rope ended about 5' above the ground so I figured I'd just drop the last little bit and land on my feet.... nope... when the end of the rope passed through my ATC is flipped me onto my back... Lesson learned...
More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing. I put 'er through the anchor and let both ends fly. I had no way to check if the rope was down due to a wicked overhang. I did have barrel knots at the end of my lines because I had no intention to rap off the end and couldn't tie them together because of twist generated by the 8. I was "Aussie" style face first because it was a unseen landing with a gnarly overhang so I just put tension on the 8 and walked off. I found myself at the end of the line literally 10 feet off the deck. When I reached the end of my doubled rope ends I had to batman up around 2 feet of rope (nearly impossible to feed lines in the 8 and gorilla up) I was five seconds away from cracking out some prussiks but I squeeze cinched the rope around my legs (painful) a couple of times so I could have hands free to untie the barrel knots. I had about a ten foot drop and figured I could handle that onto a bad rock covered sloper. I got back in descent mode and slid to the end then let go of the brake hand. I hit that sloper on my feet and shot down slope like a rocket barely staying on my feet for my best ever sagebrush/boulder hurdles 50 meter dash. I got lucky. I could see a real bad turf rash or worse happening on a sloper, on a flat deck I would have just augered in with both ankles.
Lesson learned, check carefully before headed down line into the wild blue yonder. I could have used a rescue 8 to secure a hands free position but mostly I rap now with an ATC anyways. A spotter on the deck could have saved me grief as well.

mr. incognito
03-24-2011, 12:02 PM
Rex, Don and Wayne County SAR,
I hope someone submits this to Accidents in North American Mountaineering ANAM. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanalpineclub.org%2Fpt%2 Faccidentsinnorthamericanmountaineering&rct=j&q=accidents%20in%20north%20american%20mountaineeri ng&ei=I5aLTYb9HYeosAOHxf2DCQ&usg=AFQjCNF6R9A0RKl-magjn0sXpyRBOfnTsA&sig2=xua-xQw4Ek6tavC0d973fg&cad=rja One cannot learn from one's own mistakes in this situation but others certainly can. they print a yearly accident report so the climbing/mountaineering community can evaluate and learn from accidents like this. Because it was during technical rope work it certainly would qualify for ANAM even though it happened while Canyoneering.

canyoncaver
03-24-2011, 04:09 PM
More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing.

Umm, I'm pretty sure that even a decade ago it was well written that you need more than 50m of rope to do a 30m double rope rappel! :haha:

mr. incognito
03-25-2011, 12:32 PM
Umm, I'm pretty sure that even a decade ago it was well written that you need more than 50m of rope to do a 30m double rope rappel! :haha:
There was no beta on this particular drop in the guide books yet. I went with an eyeball tape measure. Hmmmm not so accurate. Yes the literature was bursting with 50m rappel epics on 60m rope drops even back then.

ratagonia
03-31-2011, 12:11 PM
Rex, Don and Wayne County SAR,
I hope someone submits this to Accidents in North American Mountaineering ANAM. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanalpineclub.org%2Fpt%2 Faccidentsinnorthamericanmountaineering&rct=j&q=accidents%20in%20north%20american%20mountaineeri ng&ei=I5aLTYb9HYeosAOHxf2DCQ&usg=AFQjCNF6R9A0RKl-magjn0sXpyRBOfnTsA&sig2=xua-xQw4Ek6tavC0d973fg&cad=rja One cannot learn from one's own mistakes in this situation but others certainly can. they print a yearly accident report so the climbing/mountaineering community can evaluate and learn from accidents like this. Because it was during technical rope work it certainly would qualify for ANAM even though it happened while Canyoneering.

I love ANAM, but this would be an odd accident to list in there, as we really do not, and never will, know the why's and how's of the accident. What is there to learn?

Tom

ratagonia
03-31-2011, 12:16 PM
A memorial service for Louis will be held on Saturday, March 19, 3:00 pm, in the Lodge at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs. In lieu of flowers, Louis's widow Millie asks that donations be made to the Wayne County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue Team in Louis Cicotello's name. Their address is:

Wayne County Sheriff
Search and Rescue
PO Box 219
Loa, UT 84747

Cash or hard copy checks only, please -- the local bank does not have facilities to process credit card donations.

Thanks

Imlay Canyon Gear has made a donation to Wayne County Sheriff in Louis's memory.

How about Climb-Utah?

Tom :moses:

mr. incognito
04-04-2011, 03:01 PM
I love ANAM, but this would be an odd accident to list in there, as we really do not, and never will, know the why's and how's of the accident. What is there to learn?
Tom
While the concise chain of events is not known, much can be gleaned from this accident that this tragedy would be a valuable teaching aid in ANAM.
By the surviving member of this accident we learned that only one rope was available, the ropes were uneven (the victim's last words addressed this,) no precautionary measures were taken to prevent rapping off the ends of the rope such as tying ends together or knots. I think an uneven rope rappel error is extremely easy to make if one is not aware of this problem and doesn't have good info on what can happen (ANAM) if precautions aren't taken. uncontrolled descent rappel errors are the bread and butter of ANAM so to speak.
Basic info could read something like this: rappel error off uneven ends proves fatal. Victim was aware of uneven ends on doubled rappel line but did not correct or take preventative measures to stop from rappelling off uneven rope ends. victim's partner was stranded because victim took the rope down with him as he weighted one side unevenly and pulled the rope through the anchor. Preventative measures that could have been used: center marking ropes, "stopper" knots or tying rope ends together, partner double checking system when alerted to a "problem" before allowing descent, back up rope to prevent stranding or stuck rope situations. Retreat plans could have been prepared for.
I still think this unfortunate accidnet should be submitted to ANAM I think many especially those with little rappel experience can learn a great deal from this particular story even though all the facts on exactly what happened are unknown.

ratagonia
04-08-2011, 11:43 PM
More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing. I put 'er through the anchor and let both ends fly. I had no way to check if the rope was down due to a wicked overhang. I did have barrel knots at the end of my lines because I had no intention to rap off the end and couldn't tie them together because of twist generated by the 8. I was "Aussie" style face first because it was a unseen landing with a gnarly overhang so I just put tension on the 8 and walked off. I found myself at the end of the line literally 10 feet off the deck. When I reached the end of my doubled rope ends I had to batman up around 2 feet of rope (nearly impossible to feed lines in the 8 and gorilla up) I was five seconds away from cracking out some prussiks but I squeeze cinched the rope around my legs (painful) a couple of times so I could have hands free to untie the barrel knots. I had about a ten foot drop and figured I could handle that onto a bad rock covered sloper. I got back in descent mode and slid to the end then let go of the brake hand. I hit that sloper on my feet and shot down slope like a rocket barely staying on my feet for my best ever sagebrush/boulder hurdles 50 meter dash. I got lucky. I could see a real bad turf rash or worse happening on a sloper, on a flat deck I would have just augered in with both ankles.
Lesson learned, check carefully before headed down line into the wild blue yonder. I could have used a rescue 8 to secure a hands free position but mostly I rap now with an ATC anyways. A spotter on the deck could have saved me grief as well.

Reminds me of this:




2002-388 - Zion NP (UT) - Rescue – Pine Creek
Park staff responded to a report of a rappelling accident in Pine Creek Canyon at 3:30 p.m. on August 11th. A 50-year-old man had been descending into the slot canyon from the north rim when he found that his rope end did not reach to the canyon floor. When he attempted to stop his downward movement, he turned upside down and rappelled off the end of his rope, falling 15 feet to the canyon floor. EMS personnel reached him at 5 p.m. and provided ALS. The man and an attendant were raised 100 feet to the rim. Rescuers got him to the trailhead at 9 p.m. He was taken by park ambulance to a hospital in St. George, where he was found to have fractures to four ribs and to his left femur in two locations. The leader of the five-person group was issued a citation for not having a canyoneering permit.

Iceaxe
01-18-2012, 03:12 PM
UPDATE: I spoke with David Cicotello (Louis' brother) today and the medical examiner's investigation concluded that Louis died as a result of fatal internal trauma suffered from the fall.

ratagonia
01-18-2012, 03:14 PM
Sad... Tom

ratagonia
01-18-2012, 03:18 PM
More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing. I put 'er through the anchor and let both ends fly. I had no way to check if the rope was down due to a wicked overhang. I did have barrel knots at the end of my lines because I had no intention to rap off the end and couldn't tie them together because of twist generated by the 8. I was "Aussie" style face first because it was a unseen landing with a gnarly overhang so I just put tension on the 8 and walked off. I found myself at the end of the line literally 10 feet off the deck. When I reached the end of my doubled rope ends I had to batman up around 2 feet of rope (nearly impossible to feed lines in the 8 and gorilla up) I was five seconds away from cracking out some prussiks but I squeeze cinched the rope around my legs (painful) a couple of times so I could have hands free to untie the barrel knots. I had about a ten foot drop and figured I could handle that onto a bad rock covered sloper. I got back in descent mode and slid to the end then let go of the brake hand. I hit that sloper on my feet and shot down slope like a rocket barely staying on my feet for my best ever sagebrush/boulder hurdles 50 meter dash. I got lucky. I could see a real bad turf rash or worse happening on a sloper, on a flat deck I would have just augered in with both ankles.

Lesson learned, check carefully before headed down line into the wild blue yonder. I could have used a rescue 8 to secure a hands free position but mostly I rap now with an ATC anyways. A spotter on the deck could have saved me grief as well.

And what would you do now?

Tom

Mojave Silence
01-21-2012, 10:59 PM
How many people here go into any technical canyon with one rope ? Frequently/unfrequently/never?

ratagonia
01-22-2012, 07:48 AM
How many people here go into any technical canyon with one rope ? Frequently/unfrequently/never?

I do, when appropriate. What specifically do you mean?

I do not usually carry a "backup rope" or "backup set of ropes".

Tom

Iceaxe
01-22-2012, 09:25 AM
I do not usually carry a "backup rope" or "backup set of ropes".

x2

Cirrus2000
01-22-2012, 10:21 AM
It depends on how familiar I am with the canyon and its hazards. There are times when I'll take 3x the longest rap (as opposed to double, for rap and pull.) And I'm sure many will take one rope for the longest rap, and a shorter rope for the more common length raps. I've had my long rope get stuck in a huge waterfall, where ascent would have been extremely difficult due to the water flow. Fortunately we had a second, shorter rope, that got us down to an easy exit.

So, I guess the answer for me is, "sometimes" - though I don't think of it as a backup.

ratagonia
01-22-2012, 10:29 AM
Mojave Silence: the nomenclature here is to say how much rope you bring as a multiple of the longest rappel. In order to get the ropes back, clearly, one would need to carry 2X. When guiding, we carry at least 3X. Whether that is in one piece or several pieces, or what, is generally beside the point. So I think your question, in the nomenclature, would be "do you carry 3x". And the answer of course is, "It Depends".

Tom :moses:


It depends on how familiar I am with the canyon and its hazards. There are times when I'll take 3x the longest rap (as opposed to double, for rap and pull.) And I'm sure many will take one rope for the longest rap, and a shorter rope for the more common length raps. I've had my long rope get stuck in a huge waterfall, where ascent would have been extremely difficult due to the water flow. Fortunately we had a second, shorter rope, that got us down to an easy exit.

So, I guess the answer for me is, "sometimes" - though I don't think of it as a backup.

ratagonia
01-22-2012, 10:31 AM
And what would you do now?

Tom

With no answer, ...

Good technique includes covering when the information you have is not correct, or the gear you brought is not quite right. "Covering" means you are perhaps inconvenienced, but still alive.

Tom :moses:

Mojave Silence
01-22-2012, 10:17 PM
So I think your question, in the nomenclature, would be "do you carry 3x". And the answer of course is, "It Depends".

Tom :moses:

No, my question was exactly as I wrote it.
I'm curious as to why people would put "all their eggs in one basket" by not carrying more than a single strand of rope, whatever that length may be. If something happens to that rope, you are out of options; and leaves you with no margin for error. In the referenced incident, they were carrying one single strand of rope.

Iceaxe
01-23-2012, 08:25 AM
I'm curious as to why people would put "all their eggs in one basket" by not carrying more than a single strand of rope, whatever that length may be.

I don't normally carry an extra rope because I consider it frivolous. If you are using good technique there should never be a need for a back up rope. In my life I've descended several thousand canyons and never required a back-up rope. If I'm going to carry more back up gear there are other items I would put ahead of a second rope, like more water, it seems I could always use more water.

YMMV



In the referenced incident, they were carrying one single strand of rope.

In the referenced incident there is only a 50% chance a back up rope would have been useful, depending on who's pack the back up rope was in at the time of the accident.

hank moon
01-23-2012, 10:57 AM
Mojave, what you (orignally) wrote:

"How many people here go into any technical canyon with one rope ? Frequently/unfrequently/never?"

Sounds like a good question to use in a poll

ratagonia
01-23-2012, 11:08 AM
No, my question was exactly as I wrote it.
I'm curious as to why people would put "all their eggs in one basket" by not carrying more than a single strand of rope, whatever that length may be. If something happens to that rope, you are out of options; and leaves you with no margin for error. In the referenced incident, they were carrying one single strand of rope.

I have, at times, contemplated the consequences, and decided to carry a single, 200' rope when soloing a canyon with many rappels and a final rappel of 120', and the longest other rappel of 60'. Plus a 60' pull cord stashed in the pack. This allowed me to stick the rope once, and cut it at 60', and still get out of the canyon, though I would have left a rope hanging. I succeeded in not sticking the rope.

Tom :moses:

canyoncaver
01-25-2012, 10:47 AM
We try to make a habit of carrying 3x, more or less. Sometimes it is all in one piece, sometimes in two or more. If you only have one rope, rappelling double strand ties up all the resources you have, while SRT still allows for a rescue rope on the pull side. From a safety/rescue standpoint it is usually better to have the extra rope at the top, where it can be used to assist or rescue a stuck rappeller. That doesn't mean that we are never guilty of tossing the extra down to get it to the front, but it is a good general guideline to follow. For us, it is not terribly critical, as we almost never rap double strand.

Obviously there are exceptions to the 3x rule. Especially when the longest rappel is the very first or the very last in the canyon.

I like the 3x rule. It provides a nice safety buffer for when ropes get stuck/lost/destroyed etc. Carrying this much is not usually a pain in the ass, except for sometimes when it is a two-person or solo trip with big drops. In a bigger group, mo ropes are mo better anyway in order to keep things moving. I don't think a "backup rope" is a particularly helpful concept. We tend to end up using all the ropes we are carrying as it is more efficient that way.

ratagonia
01-25-2012, 10:53 AM
We try to make a habit of carrying 3x, more or less. Sometimes it is all in one piece, sometimes in two or more. If you only have one rope, rappelling double strand ties up all the resources you have, while SRT still allows for a rescue rope on the pull side. From a safety/rescue standpoint it is usually better to have the extra rope at the top, where it can be used to assist or rescue a stuck rappeller. That doesn't mean that we are never guilty of tossing the extra down to get it to the front, but it is a good general guideline to follow. For us, it is not terribly critical, as we almost never rap double strand.

Obviously there are exceptions to the 3x rule. Especially when the longest rappel is the very first or the very last in the canyon.

I like the 3x rule. It provides a nice safety buffer for when ropes get stuck/lost/destroyed etc. Carrying this much is not usually a pain in the ass, except for sometimes when it is a two-person or solo trip with big drops. In a bigger group, mo ropes are mo better anyway in order to keep things moving. I don't think a "backup rope" is a particularly helpful concept. We tend to end up using all the ropes we are carrying as it is more efficient that way.

Same here, well stated. Having 3X or 4X allows one to not do something foolish, should a rope get stuck.

Tom :moses: