Poll on the Bear Attack & subsequent court case

[uintahiker]

Since this seems to be quite the emotionally charged topic, why not turn it into a poll? Place your vote, and explain why.

[Bad Karma]

If the boy had food in his tent then I’d changed my answer to the boy and his family. If not, just a risk. Having sex has the risk of producing children. You can post signs and take precautions but the only to ensure it never happens is to keep all the ‘little white hikers at home’.
Could the USFS have done something? Yes. They could have done a number of things but the only way to be ABSOLUTELY sure animals never bothered or hurt anyone ever again is to close of the forest to the public and kill all the animals in it.

[chromehead58]

I agree with Karma, if the kid had food in his tent..parents need to own up. As for the forest service, hell no, what is next paving all trails to reduce the chances of getting hurt and or lost? Come on now, one reason we all go out into the wilderness is its inherent risks..that is what makes us all feel alive, if it were not so, we could stay at home and watch nat geo and get the same kicks without the risk!
As Ed Abbey said, you will never see the wilderness until you are carwling, leaving your blood on the rocks..then and only maybe then will you see it...I paraphrased Ed, but you get the point.

[Deathcricket]

Awww.. I'm the only one who blamed the bear :(

[denaliguide]

Awww.. I'm the only one who blamed the bear :(

feeling lonely? :haha: can't blame the bear for being a bear.

[cachehiker]

I'm still not convinced the boy didn't sneak off to bed with some chocolately goodness in his pocket, not a smart thing to do even in the developed portion of the campground. If he didn't, I remain unconvinced that the family didn't send him to bed reeking of s'mores.

I always pack my food away into the car when I'm up there. I'd even go so far as changing clothes between dinner and going to bed if I was tent camping a mile or more up the dirt road from Timpooneke.

[dbaxter]

feeling lonely? :haha: can't blame the bear for being a bear.
Voted for the bear BEFORE I read the results. :mrgreen:

It's a terrible thing to lose a child, every parent's worst nightmare. But our emotions can't make these decisions. It would be nice to give every one who is suffering compensation, monetary or otherwise. But it's not possible. And it won't help. It won't bring him back, it won't comfort the parents, and it most likely won't even help the next kid. I realize that I sound harsh, and that's not my intention. I just disagree with the lawsuit.

[moabfool]

I voted for the people who taught the bear to associate humans with food. It's not completely the way I feel. I'm somewhere between that and it's nobody's fault. Despite all that, when a bear comes into your tent it's your fault on some level. Welcome to the forest. Wild animals kill other wild animals for dinner. Nature ain't peaceful.

Now for the real question, is the family justified in suing the Forest Service. 99% chance they aren't justified. Even if the FS put up a sign, some ignorant aliterate fool is going to walk right past it, get hurt, and then be pissed because they didn't sit him down, give him a lecture, make him take a test, get a note from his mommy/babysitter/first grade teacher, and then wipe his nose and give him a sucker. The woods aren't for wussies. If you can't handle the inherent risks stay home and set up your Wal-Mart POS tent in your back yard.

BTW, when one is illiterate they lack the ability to read. When one is aliterate they posess the ability to read, they just choose not to.

[/soapbox]

[asdf]

Did the Forest Service know about the previous nights attack? Yes
Did the Forest Service warn campers in the Timponokee campground? Yes
Did that attack happen in the Timponokee Campground? No
Did the Forest Service warn the campers in the exact spot of the previous nights attack? No

Doesn't matter to me if the kid was wearing bacon around his neck or not. The fact is the forest service (or DWR) should of at least let them know what happened. Anyone who has been up AF canyon knowa that the Forest Service is out of patrol (especially on weekends) handing out citations left and right.

If you were to check into a hotel room and the concierge says "oh by the way, someone broke into this same room and attacked someone last night. The police never found them, they will start looking again in the morning". Would you appreciate that information or would it effect your stay?


oh and please stop with all this "maybe we should pave every trail" nonsense

[Iceaxe]

How can I vote??? I don't see "Shit happens" anywhere on the list.


FWIW: On the news today the USFS argued that the mom was to boozed up that night to know what was going on.

[accadacca]

FWIW: On the news today the USFS argued that the mom was to boozed up that night to know what was going on.
:eek2:

[asdf]

FWIW: On the news today the USFS argued that the mom was to boozed up that night to know what was going on.

just like the food in the tent, its not applicable

"A federal judge is weighing whether the U.S. Forest Service is at fault for failing to warn the family of an 11-year-old boy fatally mauled by a black bear in 2007 that a dangerous animal was on the loose in American Fork Canyon when they arrived at their camp site."

Notice the part where is says "failed to warn".

[bowjunkie]

I voted for the people who taught the bear to associate humans with food. It's not completely the way I feel. I'm somewhere between that and it's nobody's fault. Despite all that, when a bear comes into your tent it's your fault on some level. Welcome to the forest. Wild animals kill other wild animals for dinner. Nature ain't peaceful.

Now for the real question, is the family justified in suing the Forest Service. 99% chance they aren't justified. Even if the FS put up a sign, some ignorant aliterate fool is going to walk right past it, get hurt, and then be pissed because they didn't sit him down, give him a lecture, make him take a test, get a note from his mommy/babysitter/first grade teacher, and then wipe his nose and give him a sucker. The woods aren't for wussies. If you can't handle the inherent risks stay home and set up your Wal-Mart POS tent in your back yard.

BTW, when one is illiterate they lack the ability to read. When one is aliterate they posess the ability to read, they just choose not to.

[/soapbox]

:2thumbs:

[Sombeech]

If George W Bush wasn't lying to america at the time, this wouldn't have happened

[Gambel Oak]

It's your fault, you shouldn't have been there! I voted inherit risks. Everytime you hike, bike, climb, camp...etc., you make a choice and accept risk whether you know it or not.

[Iceaxe]

If George W Bush wasn't lying to america at the time, this wouldn't have happened

This is the problem with posting alongside home-schooled kids...

[asdf]

Had the forest service drove by and said "hey folks, just wanted to let you guys know there was a bear attack here yesterday" I would agree with most everyone of you.

But they didn't and thats what this trial is about.. period. end of story.
How many of you missed that?

[JP]

Everytime you hike, bike, climb, camp...etc., you make a choice and accept risk whether you know it or not.
x2

[Sombeech]

Had the forest service drove by and said "hey folks, just wanted to let you guys know there was a bear attack here yesterday" I would agree with most everyone of you.

Maybe they were looking for the bear instead of warning everybody about the bear attack?

err... I mean pillow snatching incident.

[asdf]

Maybe they were looking for the bear instead of warning everybody about the bear attack?
err... I mean pillow snatching incident.

actually they called off the search with plans to resume in the morning.
reading the story helps.

The title of this poll is "A bear attacked, a boy died, who is at fault?". Obviously its the bears/campers fault but thats not what this trial is about. Its about the failed warning within a very high traffic fee area run by the forest service. With that being said I agree with what most everyone posted about the fault of the actually attack.

Beech, can you honestly say that if you took your family camping up a local canyon, paid the fee, were attacked by a bear in the night, and a ranger showed up saying "huh, there was an attack in this same spot yesterday" you wouldn't be upset?

[Pelon1]

Not trying to derail the thread but the government has failed us again:bootyshake:

We went out here yesterday and there wasn't a single sign about the potential danger of falling:lol8::angryfire:

[asdf]

We went out here yesterday and there wasn't a single sign about the potential danger of falling:lol8::angryfire:

If a bear had pushed someone off that same cliff 24 hours earlier and got way then came back and pushed you off the cliff your post would be applicable.

Get it? :roflol:

[Brian in SLC]

If a bear had pushed someone off that same cliff 24 hours earlier and got way then came back and pushed you off the cliff your post would be applicable.

Get it? :roflol:

Actually, what if the bear had only stole their pillow?

[Sombeech]

Beech, can you honestly say that if you took your family camping up a local canyon, paid the fee, were attacked by a bear in the night, and a ranger showed up saying "huh, there was an attack in this same spot yesterday" you wouldn't be upset?

I'd definitely be upset. In fact I don't think anybody here wouldn't be upset. No doubt about it.

[Sombeech]

We went out here yesterday and there wasn't a single sign about the potential danger of falling:lol8::angryfire:

The rangers might have spotted that bogley shirt and said "This guy knows what he's doing" :lol8:

[asdf]

Actually, what if the bear had only stole their pillow?

The DWR and FS found it appropriate to take action. Are you saying they never should of been involved or alerted in the first place?

[Brian in SLC]

The DWR and FS found it appropriate to take action. Are you saying they never should of been involved or alerted in the first place?

Nope.

It was a very unfortunate incident. Not in the norm for any bear, ever, in Utah, to do what that bear did. Do I blame the government? Nope.

I think we can just agree to disagree on who's fault it is.

[Sombeech]

If they had an "Established set of rules" to follow and they blatantly did not follow them, and that contributed to the incident, then yes the Forest Service is at fault.

But did they? That is the question.

We can say "well I would'a done this, or they should'a done this". But what were the written guidelines they were to follow, and did they follow them....

[asdf]

We can say "well I would'a done this, or they should'a done this". But what were the written guidelines they were to follow, and did they follow them....

Do you carry around written list of morals? :haha:

[jman]

Not trying to derail the thread but the government has failed us again:bootyshake:

We went out here yesterday and there wasn't a single sign about the potential danger of falling:lol8::angryfire:

Toroweap?

[Pelon1]

Toroweap?

It was awesome.

[Sombeech]

Here's a bear attack for ya. :lol8:

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1892/o689131.gif