Doll House

[oldno7]

Can a stock Grand Cherokee make this?(without body damage):mrgreen:

[Bo_Beck]

Can a stock Grand Cherokee make this?(without body damage):mrgreen:

When I hiked up to the Doll House on Oct. 17th from Spanish Bottom, there was what appeared to be "Stock" 4wd's parked on top?

[ibenick]

Are you talking about the Doll House ruin or the Doll House area of The Maze?

[oldno7]

The camping area in the Maze.
Above Spanish bottom as Bo references.

[ststephen]

Probably. The worst part is near the beginning of the Teapot canyon. I met someone who gave up driving his stock Cherokee at that point and hiked it instead. But he was admittedly not a very experience 4W driver.

[ststephen]

Oh, and one of the camps (Doll house 2?) was pretty tricky to get into. Took us a while to figure out how to negotiate it, but with some spotting and patience it worked out.

[denaliguide]

piece of cake. took my stock 1990 4 runner out there a couple times. i am sure your cherokee is even more capable.
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just watch the road coming down from the flint trail. there is a section of road which traverses above red cove which has some clay (i think it's in the chinle formation) and when wet can be a problem.

[ststephen]

Good point on that clay. If it had been raining or snowing a lot there's always the longer way in from Hite.

[denaliguide]

time wise it's not that much longer. maybe 20 or 30 minutes is all. from the 4 way junction at teapot/sunset pass, its 30 miles of dirt to the highway just north of hite and 61 miles of dirt to the highway via hans flat. unless you have a real desire to go down the flint trail the road is much better coming in from the south.

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[IntrepidXJ]

time wise it's not that much longer. maybe 20 or 30 minutes is all.

Starting from Hans Flat Ranger Station? Since you need to get your permit from there....

[denaliguide]

Starting from Hans Flat Ranger Station? Since you need to get your permit from there....

if you are already at hans flat ranger station you are right.

i meant starting from the highway at the turnoff of highway 24 just north of hanksville. i have always gone in via hans flat. and out tthe road to hite. getting out seemed so damn fast in comparison. and the county maintains the road in from hite more frequently. right up to the base of the flint trail.

i can't remember, but do you have to get your permit directly from the ranger at hans flat? or can you get a permit in moab or through the mail?

[IntrepidXJ]

You have to pick it up at Hans Flat

[Cirrus2000]

Yeah, wouldn't want to be going down the road except in dry conditions, after picking up your permit here, at Hans Flat: :haha:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_O_8PLe3Zn6g/SQ4Ds2gM9pI/AAAAAAAAEqI/GcYsWmyIjkM/s640/IMGP3089.JPG

[moab mark]

I made the loop a few years ago from Hanksville out to the Hans Flat road down to the Doll House and then onto Hite from there we went over the Henry's and then eventually ended up back in Hanskville. It was a long day. Coming in from Hite is much faster and easier. IMO the scenery is nicer from Hite also. IMO 2 the road is no where as scenic as the White Rim. The flint trail switch backs were way over rated. We weren't dissappointed but not as scenic as we thought it was going to be. But regardless of that I do not remember thinking the road was at all difficult. I never turned in my hubs. In fact my buddy and I commented on why did we even bring my jeep should of just gone in my truck. Randy what permit do you have to have?
Has anyone come in from Poison Springs? On a map that looks like the shortest. We were going to ride our moto bikes in last fall that way when we were playing at the North Wash but never made it.

[IntrepidXJ]

Mark- you only need a permit to camp in one of the designated sites.

[denaliguide]

Yeah, wouldn't want to be going down the road except in dry conditions, after picking up your permit here, at Hans Flat: :haha:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_O_8PLe3Zn6g/SQ4Ds2gM9pI/AAAAAAAAEqI/GcYsWmyIjkM/s640/IMGP3089.JPG

yea that morning was a bit blustery. not exactly what i expected to wake up to. nice shot of my 4 runner though.


moab mark poison spring is a long way. first you have to ford the dirty devil.

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and then from there is is a long way to sunset pass. very slow going in 4wd.. on dirt bikes it would be a blast. i did it from sunset pass to the dirty devil.

[oldno7]

Great info, thanks guys.

[keithd]

We called Hans Flat just a few weeks ago, and they said we didn't need to show up in person to get an overnight permit for the Maze. They said we just needed to call the first day of the trip, and they would give us a safety and conditions speech, and that would be our permit.

They did recommend that if we were going to enter from Hite, though, that we call before leaving Hanksville, because we probably wouldn't get cell service after that.

Keith

[IntrepidXJ]

Hmmm...I have a permit for April and was told I needed to pickup the permit in person. They need to verify we have an approved toilet system, etc....

[keithd]

The reason we even called and asked that question was because I saw a trip report where the guy said he called to get his permit from a barely operable payphone at the Hite ranger station.

[Scott P]

IMO the scenery is nicer from Hite also. IMO 2 the road is no where as scenic as the White Rim. The flint trail switch backs were way over rated. We weren't dissappointed but not as scenic as we thought it was going to be.


Personally, I think the road is very scenic. It (Hans Flat to Hite with side trip to either Dollhouse or Maze Overlook) is one of my favorites and I like the isolated towers in the Land of Standing Rocks.



Has anyone come in from Poison Springs? On a map that looks like the shortest.


It depends if there has been any maintenance on the road. The floods of 2006 really gutted the road. I was last there in 2007. At the time, I couldn't make it up the embankment at the Dirty Devil across from Poison Springs in my Pathfinder (which has no problems getting to the Dollhouse). My brother's TRD Tacoma with lockers could-but barely and after several tries. After that there were several bad washouts. I don't know if things have changed since then. Going out Poison Springs rather than in that way will make an easier river crossing.

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Anyway, to get to the Dollhouse via the Flint Trail or Hite, a stock Grand Cherokee should make it. I made it in my Pathfinder and only scraped once or twice. It will be very slow though (around Teapot Canyon a bike is faster). You can drive to California faster than you can the Dollhouse.

Personally I would suggest going in Hans Flat and out Hite (unless you had the time on hand to come out Poison Springs). There are some nice places along both the Hans Flat route (such as the Millard Canyon Overlook and Lands End) and along the Hite Road as well (Willow ruins, arches, etc.). You might as well see both routes on the same trip.

[ststephen]

I think that was me using the bad pay phone in Hite. They are fine with you calling in for your permit but you must do it the day you start. It's funny that I had no cell service in Hite but I did when I got to the Dollhouse itself. I remember calling Moab on our last day and making dinner reservations. Next time I'm there I'll bring my iPad and post to bogley.

Faster on bicycle? Heck I couldn't beat some backpackers for most of that road. But I was able to transport a lot more water than they could :nod:

[oldno7]

more great info, thanks a lot

[keithd]

Sorry I didn't remember whose trip report it was! But I got useful info out of it!

[Scott P]

PS, one thing that I should mention is that I would recommend (other opinions my vary) not going to the Dollhouse unless you have 4-5 days to spare.

Since it takes so long to drive there, on a two-day (or even three) day weekend you will spend a large amount of time in the vehicle and won't have much time to explore around (and there are a lot of places to explore around). On a 2-3 day weekend, the Maze Overlook makes a better destination. If you have 4-5 days and go to the Dollouse you can see lots of cool stuff.

[oldno7]

It takes me close to 3hrs to get to Hanksville, "roughly" how long of a drive from there, to Hans, Dollhouse?
From Dollhouse out to Hite?

[ststephen]

It was almost a full day thing for me to drive Hanksville just to even Chimney Rock and Doll House is another hour from there. Scott may have a better memory for hours for each segment. Also look at http://www.nps.gov/cany/planyourvisit/upload/maze_web.pdf which lists Hans to DH as 6 hours but Maze Overlook as 3. The difference is Teapot Canyon: it's a long slow grind.

You may be a *little* faster than that but I concur with wanting to spend several days in that area once you get there. For me at least, after the one way journey I was ready to stay put for a few days and with hikes and explorations in every direction you look what better place to do it!

[Scott P]

It takes me close to 3hrs to get to Hanksville, "roughly" how long of a drive from there, to Hans, Dollhouse?


About seven hours.



From Dollhouse out to Hite?


About six, but varies greatly depending on how long it's been since the road was bladed.

[ibenick]

So what are the best hikes in and around the Dollhouse?

[Scott P]

So what are the best hikes in and around the Dollhouse?


Rather than try and re-write everything, here's a cut and past of a PM I sent to another Bogley member which outlines a few places which I consider to be the best of the Maze (slightly edited to take out location such as arrowhead sites-PM me and I might share by PM, but not broadband).

I would also highly recommend the Colorado River Overlook/Confluence. The Water/Shot Canyon loop is pretty good if you have time, but IMHO, the below are the very best of the sites.

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The Harvest Scene is a good pictograph panel, so you are doing right by going there, though it is perhaps easier to get to from the Maze Overlook. The best slot in the area is also north of the overlook, but it will be out of your way (let me know if you want directions anyway).

Make sure to visit the Doll House as there are some nice slot cracks and ruins. I couldn't point out those on a map (vague memory), but you can find all sorts of cool stuff by looking around.

I would highly recommend the drainage containing Whitmore Arch. There is a marked trail out there with a bit of scrambing, but the NPS took it off all their maps. The trail starts just east of the rock tower (Mother and Child on the 7.5 minute map) in the photo below:

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About a mile SE of the beginning of the trail you will notice a spring (reliable) marked on the map. In the next drainage west and not far up the drainage from the trail is a really nice little ruin. If you look around for it, it shouldn't be hard to find.

Whitmore Arch is in the big drainage east of the spring and the trail goes over a small pass to reach that drainage. The arch itself is a good one, but is easy to miss if you aren't watching for it. After seeing the arch, continue up canyon and it will turn into a really nice (but short) slot canyon ending in an arch and drop off.

Head back to the spring and look for a route up to the rimlands east of the spring and west of the Whitmore Arch Drainage which if you look around has some cool stuff. There are some nice arches around up there as well.

Go back to the canyon containing the spring. If you go down canyon (which turns into Range Canyon just below the trail), on the left side of the canyon just before it reaches the Whitmore Arch fork is a nice pictograph panel.

Seeing all the sites above in the Witmore Arch/Spring area doesn't look that far on the map, but plan on taking most of a day to soak in all this good stuff. You can head east of the Whitmore Arch Drainage and see lots more cool stuff, but that makes for a long day.

Not far southwest of Lizard Rock (near Chimney Rock) there are routes into the Tibbits Arch Drainage. At one time they were cairned, but at last report the park service has removed them all (reason being there is lots of crypto soil in there if you leave the drainages). You will have to search around for the route since the cairns have been removed. Tibbits Arch is the biggest arch in the Maze and highly recommended. Don't try to climb up to the arch though as it can't be done without technical gear and trying it will stomp a bunch of crypto.

The drainage east of Tibbits Arch and containing Muffin Arch has some neat things in it, but you may not have time to see all these drainages. The Dollhouse, Whitmore Arch and Tibbits Arch areas are probably the best in the area. There was a cairned route into the Muffin Arch drainage, but I don't know if it exist anymore. It used to start from the now blocked off cut-off east of Standing Rock. You could follow the old road east a short distance and find the trail down in (which followed the rim and descended into the drainage not until due east of Muffin Arch.

Chocalate Drops and Petes Mesa are pretty cool too, if you can find the time.

The above should keep you busy a while.

You can see my last trip report if interested:

http://www.summitpost.org/an-a-maze-ing-trip-photo-trip-report/565737

It mentions some of the places above.

[denaliguide]

just wanted to expand on some of what scott said.


The Harvest Scene is a good pictograph panel, so you are doing right by going there, though it is perhaps easier to get to from the Maze Overlook.

there are two nice hikes to get to the harvest scene from the land of standing rocks. one is from the trail that starts at "the wall". it follows the ridge between the two forks of horse canyon and drops east into the canyon bottom just past the "chocolate drops". then it is just a bend or two up to the harvest scene. don't forget to continue looking in the alcove as it goes upstream from the harvest scene. then continue hiking all the way up the canyon and there is a trail exiting the canyon near "lizard rock. just contour along the south side of "lizard rock back to your car parked at "the wall". the other starts at "chimney rock". follow the trail down into the bottom of the canyon. when this side canyon enters the main fork go downstream. keep a lookout on the left and you will see another small panel. continue down to the harvest scene. then continue down to the spring and head west up the major side canyon. this takes you up onto the ridge between the maze and jasper canyon, just below "pete's mesa". follow the trail north along the ridge back to your car. starting at "chimney rock" is the shorter of the two options.


looking east into jasper canyon.
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About a mile SE of the beginning of the trail you will notice a spring (reliable) marked on the map. In the next drainage west and not far up the drainage from the trail is a really nice little ruin. If you look around for it, it shouldn't be hard to find.

the trail is the one which leads through "ernies country" from the "mother and child" to "the dolls house". the spring is known as "lou's spring". the ruin is called "cedar bark" ruin.

lou's spring
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[oldno7]

Couldn't find 2 more knowledgeable guys, thanks a lot Les and Scott

[ibenick]

Couldn't find 2 more knowledgeable guys, thanks a lot Les and Scott

x2

I'm heading there in April. 2 nights at Standing Rock and 2 nights at Dollhouse #3, if you guys think of any other goodies, let me know!

[ststephen]

I'm saving this beta for my next trip there too! I'd like to get up on top of Pete's Mesa next time; we only made it out to the base of it. I'd also like to follow the ridge all the way to the Chocolate drops and stand next to them. We had a nice day exploring Sweet Alice Canyon which is an arm that leads to Ernie's country. There is an amazing arch in there.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28003&stc=1&d=1240082462

Surprise Valley is pretty cool too:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27973&stc=1&d=1239992831

And here's the link to my trip report:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?34801-Maze-TR