west trip

[4kidhockey]

Hello, my name is Kirk and I just found this forum and signed in today. I am beginning to plan my first trip from here in Michigan where I live out west to visit some of our National Parks with my daughter who is 17. My plan is to take about a month this summer to drive out and see and experience some of the best scenery in some of our Parks and I am hoping to get some advice planning my visits to each park. I don't want to get tangled up in the crowds, we both love the adventure of back country hiking, I have been watching videos on you tube like hiking the Narrows of Zion, and the subway of zion, and I think that best shows the type of experiences the we would like to have. Having just begun my planning, this is my starting itinerary - In one month maybe I can drive from michigan to Glacier Nat Park for 3 days, yellowstone for 3 days, zion-4 days, arches 1 day, bryce 2 days, grand canyon 5 days, yosemite 5 days, and the rest time on the road getting to these places. I guess what I am asking is for advice about each park? I know that I could spend a lifetime exploring each park but I would really like to see most of these and see the "cant miss' places in each park, so I am looking for anyones advice on my trip. Just a note; we are not looking for great lodges to stay at, we can camp a lot wherever is allowable. We are both athletic and love exploring so we can cover some good ground for long day hikes if we need to, thank for your help

[4kidhockey]

Hello, I am looking to visit these National Parks for some exploration and looking for advice on your experiences, If you wanted to visit these National Parks in one month,which is probably only 23 days divided into actual days spent hiking, (because of my drive time to and from michigan how would your trip go to see the best of each park. Having never done this, these are the parks I would like to visit, Glacier, Yellowstone, Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon, Yosemite, could I see the best of each park in that time or do I need to cut a couple parks out of my plan? I have never been to any of these and would like to see them all, we have to do this on a budget, so we will be camping most of the time, we do not want to get tangled up in the crowds, we want to experience it like Hiking the Narrows and the Subway of Zion sort of thing. Any help you can give me would be awesome, Thanks, Kirk

[CarpeyBiggs]

hope you are a road warrior! not sure the travel times to/from michigan. these are a rough guess. do you want to go backpacking in these parks, or just day hikes and typical camping? if you aren't backpacking, you'll likely be on the same trails as the crowds. the narrows, the subway, half dome, anywhere in yellowstone, etc... it's possible to get off the beaten path, but there is also a reason why everyone goes to these places.

however, if you don't like crowds, i'd say pick a handful of 3-5 day trips in the parks you most want to see. obviously, yosemite is the farthest away. and will probably eat up 2-4 days of travel from the other parks. there could be some really nice backpacking trips you could do at glacier, tetons, and yellowstone. then day trips at bryce, and zion, and then another 3-4 night trip into the grand canyon (though it will be crazy hot there in the summer too)

do you have a full 30 days? or do you only have 23? personally, i'd cut out yosemite and save it for another or longer trip, but only you can tell us what you really want to accomplish.

possible 23 days, but no backcountry trips -

1 - driving to glacier
2 - arrive at glacier, half day
3,4 - glacier hiking
5 - drive to mammoth, yellowstone, afternoon in lamar valley or maybe quick hike around norris geyser areas, or just walk around mammoth.
6,7 - yellowstone - all sorts of hiking and wildlife opportunities, take your pick, hard to go wrong. or hit the "circuit" of geysers.
8 - sunrise in hayden valley, run from grizzlies, and then drive to tetons, catch sunset at Oxbow bend
9 - tetons - cascade canyon?
10 - catch the sunrise in tetons, then LOTS of driving to Bryce.
11 - sunrise at the rim of bryce canyon, drive to zion.
12, 13, 14 - zion - subway, narrows, angels landing or east rim trail
15 - drive to north rim of grand canyon, sunset at one of many rim viewpoints
16,17 - GC (do you want to go to the south rim?)
18, 19 - LONG drive from north rim through vegas to death valley to owens valley to yosemite. lots you could see in that stretch too.
20,21 - yosemite - half dome, mist trail, cathedral lakes and peak, countless options.
22,23 - driving back to michigan.

[4kidhockey]

I am definitely thinking that backpacking is the camping that I will be doing, camping in campgrounds with the large amount of people only when I am in transition between parks. I guess what am asking is what would your itinerary be if you were doing this trip? what hikes would you do? what sites would you make sure to see? I want to see the best of each park, if I have to spend more or less time at each park that is what I am trying to figure out. I am planning to allow around 30 days to make it out and back, give or take a few days, I am self employed, so no one is going to fire me if I don't make it back on an exact day. Thanks , Kirk

[erial]

Who is we? Who'll be participating on this month long trek? You alone? Spouse? 4kids? Ages, fitness? What month of the year would this trek set forth? Pardon the questions, but some additional info might help in putting together useful responses.

[p40whk]

4Kid,

My friends and I did a 2 week road trip from Cincinnati out to southern Utah to do just what you're planning. If I could say one thing about what you have planned is you're spreading yourself too thin. You'll waste a lot of time moving from place to place setting up and taking down camp when you could be enjoying many of the things that a longer stay would afford.

Permits for back country hiking go lottery for popular trails so that may determine where you are at what time of the month depending on when you travel so you may want to pick the absolute must do hikes and plan around them.

Glacier N.P. is a huge park and you'll be spending way to much time on the road to get there just for 3 days. On the other hand, 1-2 days is all I'd spend at the grand canyon. You could spend weeks at Zion since over 60% of the trails are back country (this is my favorite park out of all you've mentioned). Don't discount Escalante either, there are some great hikes there that you shouldn't miss.

Yellowstone and the Teton's would also be a glance in your rearview mirror at only 3 days, that area is also huge and to see it right would take more time.

We plan a western hiking trip every other year because there is just too much to see to try and cram it all in. I think if you narrow down your locations and spend lees time on the road you'll get to enjoy a whole lot more quality time with your daughter and see much more of what the parks have to offer. Then, plan a return trip to catch what you missed.

Believe me when I say you'd rather spend your time in the parks then on the road. We drove 24 straight hours to get from Cincy to Escalante and concentrated our sight seeing in that general area of the country, most of the time on the road felt wasted because we didn't have time to see some of the sights we wanted.

Jeff

[4kidhockey]

Our trip will be my 17 yr. Old daughter and I. She is a cross country runner and will love it. We will do it the month of july. I know that many of sights are aw n from the roads and that's part of it but I am hoping to learn how to see everything while limiting our time stuck in traffic

[4kidhockey]

Jeff, yeah I agree, I have definitely learn that trying to do too much sucks, but in a month I should have at least enough time to do a few parks, I am thinking about skipping Glacier and Yellowstone for now and doing them next time and maybe concentrating on Arches, Canyonlands, Grand Canyon, Bryce, and Zion on this trip, They are all in my path from michigan better, and like you say, I have been looking into it so we can camp on some of these hikes and we need reservations at them, so I will plan my trip around the must do hikes, From your experiences, what would your must do hikes be? I think I am going to look into a little canyoneering lessons so we can rappel to do the subway section of zion, and definitely the narrows, I know that a lot of the best scenery in to be found right from the roads, but I need to find out how to see them without loosing days in traffic, I want 80 percent of my time to be standing on cliffs, or in a riverbed or under an arch or sleeping in a cave, not it a traffic jamb on the south rim, so I need for figure out how to take in the greatest views then get up close and personal. did you guys do the scenic drives that everybody else does or did you just head right to the trails? Thanks, Kirk

[CarpeyBiggs]

yes, grand canyon in dead of summer is pretty hot.

i agree, less places=more fun. but if you are dead set on seeing it all, it could be done i suppose.

[Iceaxe]

The trip you currently have planned will be a windshield vacation.....I'm casting my vote for less places and more time in the places that you do visit.

Considering the time of year I'd pair the trip up into a north/south deal.... Yellowstone/Tetons up north and Zion/Bryce down south.

Bryce is pretty cool but you can pretty much hike the whole place in two full days. I've spent years exploring Zion and still have not seen it all. Lots of water in Zion so its a fun place to visit in the summer. You could easily spend the entire 30 days in just Yellowstone and the Tetons. Lots of interesting things to see.

If you want to add anther places to your trip that will fit into either your drive to or from you might think about Mesa Verde. It works better in the summer then Grand Canyon, which will be a cooker and it's on the drive to/from Michigan.

If you plan to do the Subway in Zion (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/subway.htm) you will want to apply for permits soon as your window of opportunity opens.

http://climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/subway10.jpg

[trackrunner]

mods combine these threads
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?41620-west-trip&p=424645#post424645

I see you want to spend 5 days in middle of the summer in the Grand Canyon. Hot, Hot, Hot. Too hot to go deep into the canyon during daylight hours. So you'll be doing rim hikes to view points and maybe a short half day hike to a point into the canyon. 1 to 2 days tops is needed at the North Rim to accomplish that.

Since you are a flat lander you will enjoy some of the scenic drives in the area. But I agree with everyone on less places and more fun activities.


Our trip will be my 17 yr. Old daughter and I. She is a cross country runner and will love itformer NCAA cross country runner my self. I fell in love with mountains and went to a university out here. It's at altitude with thin air. She'll be fine, but will you be able to keep up. :wink:

[p40whk]

The Subway is a must do hike, Mystery Canyon was the highlight of my whole trip this year but a bit more technical. If you're interested in doing some of the more technical hikes, I'm sure you'll be able to find someone local that can guide you through it. Taking a canyoneering course is recommended.

Someone mentioned Mesa Verde and I have to agree, this was a big surprise park for us, the camp sites are great and so are the guided tours. Cool place with a lot of history and on your way home.

Calf Creek falls is another nice spot to stop with a newly remodeled camp ground. The road from Green River Utah past Arches, Goblin Valley, Capital Reef, Calf Creek Falls, Escalante and into Bryce is one of the most scenic drives in the world and should not be missed.

Spooky, Peek A Boo and Brimstone slot canyons in Escalante are also fun and you can do that in a day.

If you don't mind marathon hikes, the West Rim trail in Zion from west to east is magnificent but it's an all day hike and you'll need a shuttle (15-17 miles). You could pack in half way and camp then continue on the next day and this will put you right at Scouts Look out below Angels Landing. This is still me favorite "long" hike. The views from this trail are jaw dropping.

[4kidhockey]

It will be getting in shape soon. I am 42 yrs. old now and about 20 have been a bit sedentary so I do have some work ahead of me. It is truly what I like best. I was a college hockey player and have always been an athlete, but it will be a lot of hard work to get to where I know I want to be to truly enjoy this trip with no problems. It'll be fun, my daughter loves this kind of stuff, and it will be wonderful to be there with her. Thanks a lot, Kirk toughtf
mods combine these threads
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?41620-west-trip&p=424645#post424645

I see you want to spend 5 days in middle of the summer in the Grand Canyon. Hot, Hot, Hot. Too hot to go deep into the canyon during daylight hours. So you'll be doing rim hikes to view points and maybe a short half day hike to a point into the canyon. 1 to 2 days tops is needed at the North Rim to accomplish that.

Since you are a flat lander you will enjoy some of the scenic drives in the area. But I agree with everyone on less places and more fun activities.

former NCAA cross country runner my self. I fell in love with mountains and went to a university out here. It's at altitude with thin air. She'll be fine, but will you be able to keep up. :wink:

[4kidhockey]

Thanks man, I appreciate your input, I am definitely going to look into what you have recommended for me, this is exactly what I was hoping for. I just contacted an outfit at zion to take a one day basic canyoneering class,which I hope will give me the tools I will need to get through the subway area a maybe a few others, I wil be doing some more learning before I get there to be up and running so that when we get there and can put our learning into quick use. We are both tough people and we love a challenge so we should be good.
The Subway is a must do hike, Mystery Canyon was the highlight of my whole trip this year but a bit more technical. If you're interested in doing some of the more technical hikes, I'm sure you'll be able to find someone local that can guide you through it. Taking a canyoneering course is recommended.

Someone mentioned Mesa Verde and I have to agree, this was a big surprise park for us, the camp sites are great and so are the guided tours. Cool place with a lot of history and on your way home.

Calf Creek falls is another nice spot to stop with a newly remodeled camp ground. The road from Green River Utah past Arches, Goblin Valley, Capital Reef, Calf Creek Falls, Escalante and into Bryce is one of the most scenic drives in the world and should not be missed.

Spooky, Peek A Boo and Brimstone slot canyons in Escalante are also fun and you can do that in a day.

If you don't mind marathon hikes, the West Rim trail in Zion from west to east is magnificent but it's an all day hike and you'll need a shuttle (15-17 miles). You could pack in half way and camp then continue on the next day and this will put you right at Scouts Look out below Angels Landing. This is still me favorite "long" hike. The views from this trail are jaw dropping.

[Iceaxe]

I just contacted an outfit at zion to take a one day basic canyoneering class,which I hope will give me the tools I will need to get through the subway area a maybe a few others,

These one day schools normally give you the tools you will need to descend Keyhole Canyon (http://www.climb-utah.com/Zion/keyhole.htm). Your instructor at the end of the school will tell you if you are qualified if you ask... and if your skill set is up to par its a must do....

http://www.climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/keyhole6.jpg

[4kidhockey]

Excellent, thanks for the info. I am building me a list of all the these must do's, and without your help it would be much harder for me to know these things, so thanks a lot, I appreciate it. Keyhole is on my list, How much of this sort of thing is in the park? How much time would you allow to climb in the park to do all of the stuff that you would like to do if you were a first timer like us??

[jman]

Excellent, thanks for the info. I am building me a list of all the these must do's, and without your help it would be much harder for me to know these things, so thanks a lot, I appreciate it. Keyhole is on my list, How much of this sort of thing is in the park? How much time would you allow to climb in the park to do all of the stuff that you would like to do if you were a first timer like us??

First time (after your canyoneering class)....I would do Keyhole Canyon (2hrs roundtrip, takes 15min drive from the entrance) and Angels Landing (3-5hr roundtrip) for one day. Then I would do the Subway all on it's own the second day. If you have a 3rd day in Zion, I would check out Emerald Pools, Zion Narrows (from Temple of Sinawava) and hike up it a mile or so, Weeping Rock, and explore on the east side of the Zion tunnel - for the 3rd day.

You could do a lot more canyoneering adventures, but I wouldn't recommend anything past keyhole for beginners, personally.

Zion is a blast, hope you have loads of fun!

[trackrunner]

I would do Keyhole Canyon (2hrs roundtrip, takes 15min drive from the entrance) and Angels Landing (3-5hr roundtrip) for one day.

I'd reverse the order in the summer. Angles in the cool early and less crowded time of the day. Cold Keyhole in the hot part of the day.

[Iceaxe]

How much time would you allow to climb in the park to do all of the stuff that you would like to do if you were a first timer like us??

It would be easy to spend a week or more in Zion.... its probably better if you reevaluate your schedule and tell us how much time you want to allocate to each park and then we can help you plan activities for each park.

The through hike of the Zion Narrows (top to bottom) (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/narrows.htm) was recently rated one of the top 10 hikes in the United States by National Geographic, and I'd have to agree, its awesome. I've done it both as a leasurily to day backpack or as a long single day.

Orderville Gulch (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/orderville.htm) would also be high on my personal to-do list.

I love doing Kanarra Creek (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/kanarra.htm), which works nicely into your drive down to the park.

Bryce Canyon is much easier. I'd spend two days and do Fairyland Canyon (http://climb-utah.com/Bryce/fairyland.htm) one day and the Peek-A-Boo & Queens Garden Trail (http://climb-utah.com/Bryce/queens.htm) on the second day. That should also give you plenty of time to visit the popular viewpoints with all the other tourists.


Zion Narrows
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/narrows1.jpg

[p40whk]

It would be easy to spend a week or more in Zion.... its probably better if you reevaluate your schedule and tell us how much time you want to allocate to each park and then we can help you plan activities for each park.

The through hike of the Zion Narrows (top to bottom) (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/narrows.htm) was recently rated one of the top 10 hikes in the United States by National Geographic, and I'd have to agree, its awesome. I've done it both as a leasurily to day backpack or as a long single day.

Orderville Gulch (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/orderville.htm) would also be high on my personal to-do list.

I love doing Kanarra Creek (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/kanarra.htm), which works nicely into your drive down to the park.

Bryce Canyon is much easier. I'd spend two days and do Fairyland Canyon (http://climb-utah.com/Bryce/fairyland.htm) one day and the Peek-A-Boo & Queens Garden Trail (http://climb-utah.com/Bryce/queens.htm) on the second day. That should also give you plenty of time to visit the popular viewpoints with all the other tourists.

Agree with this 100% The three trails listed for Bryce will allow you to see just about all you need in 2 days.

Zion is such a spectacular park that you could spend weeks hiking it so you will have to make a decision on your travel plans. Like I initially said in my first reply, I thought you were spreading yourself too thin.

There are many good web resources for your trip planning that are run by people on this very site. Tanya's web page is invaluable for planning (http://www.zionnational-park.com/)

Joe Braun is a great photographer and has trail descriptions of many of the classic hikes with gorgeous photos to go with them (http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/)

Tom Jones has descriptions and tips (safety as well) on many of the canyoneering hikes in and around the park (http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/)

Climb Utah is also another technical canyoneering site (http://www.climb-utah.com/)

There are many more but these should get you started. I would spend a lot of time reading through the trail and route descriptions. It will help you decided what's best for you.

Come to think of it, it would be nice to have a stickied thread that listed all of the sites like these for people to go to for research.

[jman]

Come to think of it, it would be nice to have a stickied thread that listed all of the sites like these for people to go to for research.

This is on my bogley list of things to do...although, currently I'm putting the final tweaks on my Bogley Christmas Gift! 2 more days!

[4kidhockey]

Thanks guys, My question is, a lot of people that I am crazy to do Zion the Last 2 weeks of June because of the Heat. But it looks like a lot of my Hiking would be being done by and or in the cold water and stuff like angels and other higher desert trekking could be at least partly done starting at sun up during the cooler times of the days , and only on the really long hikes would I maybe suffer a full days in the heat, ?For now it looks like I should do Angels one morning up to mid -day then Keyhole Canyon the last part of our day. I can spend 2 days doing the Narrows, I can spend a day doing the Subway.So these days won't be bad with the heat, but what about these other hikes, are they doable in late june? I can spend a day hiking The west rim trail, The East Rim Trail Hike, Emerald Pools, and Zion Tunnel. Kanarra Creek for a half a day, Orderville Gulch for a day. So it looks like I should allow about 12 days to spend in and around Zion., 2 days for Bryce,What would you suggest we visit in the south during this hot time of year, ,Something in any of these Parks? Arches, Grand Canyon maybe for a North Canyon trek for a couple days or if too hot maybe not, , canyonlands, Mesa Verde, Escalante We both are kayakers, so maybe we can look it to a trip down the river in a raft,for a day, Just trying to find a way to take in a lot of what the south has to offer without dying in the heat. We are both heat tough, so I really am not too scared but all of these comments have me starting to wonder, everybody is really against visiting the south this time of the year but then they say how cold these long hikes in and around the water are??? what gives??? Do any of you think doing this trip at this time is a great thing??????

[p40whk]

I wouldn't worry about the temps in and around Zion in June. I've been there 4 times in August and yes it's hot but nothing like you're used to with the humidity of the midwest. I hate to use the term"Dry Heat" but it's a true statement. You'll be fine and don't listen to people telling you you're crazy for going that time of year.

Scroll down on this page for a Zion average weather chart: http://www.zion.national-park.com/weather.htm

One other suggestion, and this is related to your posts, try to break up those huge paragraphs into smaller 2-3 line paragraphs, makes it much easier to read.

[4kidhockey]

Ha , thanks, I am a carpenter for a living, so I do and have done zero book learning for 21 years, which is why my letters are so poor. I can do a little better though. Thanks for the help bud. I am going to start my research into this trip, and come up with a good plan from all of the recommendations i have received. There is much to be done on my end, just getting a plan for all of the items that I will need for her and I to have a great trip. That, along with research into all of the places I want to visit, the travel, and reservations and permits I need will be good fun looking into. I appreciate you tips, Kirk

[Iceaxe]

Come to think of it, it would be nice to have a stickied thread that listed all of the sites like these for people to go to for research.

One already exists in the canyoneering forum:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?24485



Climb Utah is also another technical canyoneering site (http://www.climb-utah.com/)

FWIW: Climb-Utah.com (http://www.climb-utah.com) is split about 50/50 between technical and non-technical. I have tried to add something for everyone to the site.