A few questions abput hikes in the area between Zion and Escalante

[Richie]

Hi,

right now we're planning another trip to the Southwest. At the moment I'm collecting information about hikes we could do. We prefer the less crowded trails.

One that I found is Mineral Gulch. I've read the information on zionnational-park.com but two questions were left:

- We just want to do a day trip and 16 Miles is far above our limit. I would say 7-8 miles would be our limit. So one idea would be to walk a few miles and then turn back. But the questions is: Is it worth? Can some of the interesting narrows be found in the first 3-4 miles?

- Also the website says: "however there may be steep scrambling involved depending on the course taken." We're probably better hikers than the average tourist, but compared to the experienced hikers here I would rate us as beginners. So which course doesn't involve scrambling?

I also have questions about different hikes but I guess it's better to do first things first.

Richie

EDIT: I corrected a typo in the title, but in the overview the typo is still there.. Why?

[ratagonia]

You might do better to ask that in the Canyoneering Forum, and also in the Zion Hiking Yahoo Group:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?15-Canyoneering

I live here in Mt Carmel, and have not done the Mineral Gulch Hike. It does not look all that appealing.

One other question would be WHEN? Makes a big difference, spring, summer or fall. I recommend Fall!!!

Tom

[Iceaxe]

Mineral Gulch would probably NOT be a good hike for what you are looking for. Most of the Goodies are located near the end of the hike (near the East Fork of the Virgin River).

Have you looked into doing any of these?

Wire Pass (http://climb-utah.com/Escalante/buckskin.htm) - this is just a section of the Buckskin Gulch hike that is easy for hikers.

Bull Valley Gorge

Willis Creek
(http://www.zionnational-park.com/grand-staircase-hiking.htm)
Lick Wash
(http://www.zionnational-park.com/grand-staircase-monument.htm)

Just below the confluence of Wire Pass and Buckskin Gulch

http://climb-utah.com/Escalante/Files/buckskin3.jpg

[oldno7]

Hi Richie
It might depend on the vehicle you drive. I've done Mineral from the bottom. I accessed the bottom from a road that turns off Highway 9 just West of the Buffalo Ranch.
It is a very 4x4 type of road, once you reach the cliffband, but doable for those with good offroad driving skills and a high clearance vehicle. Another option is to hire Zion Ponderosa to take you down
and pick you back up at a desired time. They drive the road frequently. The narrows just above Parunaweap is probably the most scenic part of the canyon. I called a canyon several miles above the narrows
#7 canyon, as well as the arch within, #7 arch. There is a nice Petroglyph panel at the canyons entrance in a blind arch, it is getting very faded.
Hope some of this helps
Kurt

[Richie]

Thanks for your answers.


I live here in Mt Carmel, and have not done the Mineral Gulch Hike. It does not look all that appealing.
Really? I've seen a few pictures here canyonwandern.de/bilder/0592e69c840796604/o000.html and I liked them a lot.


Wire Pass / Bull Valley Gorge / Lick Wash /Willis Creek

Willis Creek and Wire Pass we've already seen. Willis Creek is great but Wire Pass was somehow disappointing.
Bull Valley Gorge and Lick Wash are already planned. But we have seven days so there are few other things to do.
A lot of the "Mainstream Hikes" that can be found in every guide book we've already done (CBS, CBN, Paw Hole, White Pocket, Big Horn, Escalante Natural Bridge, Volcano, Yellow Rock and a few others). We prefer the hikes that are not crowded by tourists. What we like most is colored sandstone (like Yellow Rock, Big Horn or White Pocket), Slot Canyons come second. The problem is that we're hikers but because I have a fear of height now scrambling should be involved.


It is a very 4x4 type of road, once you reach the cliffband, but doable for those with good offroad driving skills
We've done a few dirt roads but when you say "VERY 4x4" I guess it's over our limit.

Any recommendations are welcome.

Richie

[Iceaxe]

Another option is to hire Zion Ponderosa to take you down and pick you back up at a desired time. They drive the road frequently. The narrows just above Parunaweap is probably the most scenic part of the canyon.

Just curious? why does Zion Ponderosa drive the road?

And I agree with Kurt, that section of canyon (The Barracks) is very scenic, its just not easy to access.


The Barracks
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/Files/rock7.jpg

[oldno7]

I believe they do a shuttle for Rock Canyon as well as Parunaweap hikers.
Probably also, a beer drinking hot spot on a warm Summers eve...........
You can drive to within 200' of the river. Ah yes----beer, women and rivers.........(In no particular order)

Also, I meant the first 3 sets of Narrows heading up Mineral, from Parunaweap, were the best parts of Mineral.
But how could one not like a hike from Poverty to the park boundary and out the Fat Mans trail. Our own Tyler did it in one
day, even though he packed full bivy gear.(YOUTH)

[Iceaxe]

OK.... here is a route for you that gets you the best of The Barracks.

The route is noted on the map below. If you do this route I highly suggest you take along a copy of my Rock Canyon Route Description (http://climb-utah.com/Zion/rock.htm).

To do this as a hike you will enter the Barracks using what I call the "Emergency Rock Canyon Exit". You will hike down the Virgin River and exit using French Canyon. The emergency exits allows you to skip the technical stuff but get everything else.... kinda like getting married and skipping the bachelor party :haha:.

The route is for experienced hikers only. The route has some minor scrambling but no real exposure or scary stuff. There is some Poison Ivy along the ay that you have to watch out for but its avoidable if you know what to look for.

Trailhead to trailhead time is about 6 hours.

The route requires a 4x4 to reach the trailhead.

39581

[Iceaxe]

We prefer the hikes that are not crowded by tourists. What we like most is colored sandstone (like Yellow Rock, Big Horn or White Pocket), Slot Canyons come second. The problem is that we're hikers but because I have a fear of height now scrambling should be involved.

Richie, where are you coming from? You sound like the type a hiker that would really enjoy hiking Cedar Mesa (http://climb-utah.com/CM/index.htm).

[Iceaxe]

But how could one not like a hike from Poverty to the park boundary and out the Fat Mans trail. Our own Tyler did it in one
day, even though he packed full bivy gear.(YOUTH)

I've been down Fat Man's Misery and out both French and Rock Canyons with large groups. That was a pretty easy day hike. It's now my preferred way of doing Fat Man's Misery. The route is much easier and more adventuerous then hiking back out over Checkerboard Mesa... setting up the shuttle kinda sucks but I get the youngin's to do it for me. :nod:

[Richie]

Wow, so many answers. Great.


Richie, where are you coming from?

Bavaria (were the good beer is coming from) - This also explains my English :mrgreen::mrgreen: . I have a thread in the Newbies Section were I introduced myself.

I guess there so much stuff that I spent the next weeks just searching for all the places you're mentioning.

Richie


kinda like getting married and skipping the bachelor party
That expression is great. Have to keep that one i mind. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Sombeech]

EDIT: I corrected a typo in the title, but in the overview the typo is still there.. Why?

When editing a post, hit the "Go Advanced" button and you can change your original title. :mrgreen:

[erial]

Cobra Arch? I was able to drive to within a 30 minutes walk of the trailhead. The road at that point was too sandy for a 2wd car. From the trailhead it is 90 minutes to 2 hours to reach the arch. The hike is mostly level class 1. Ron Adkison in his Falcon guidebook has a good description.

Have you done any hikes in the east canyon area of Zion: Many Pools, Center of the Universe, Crawford Wash? No formal trails, no crowds, occasional steepness, but fear of heights should not be an issue.

[Iceaxe]

When editing a post, hit the "Go Advanced" button and you can change your original title. :mrgreen:

Hey beech.... that doesn't work. It fixes the title in the thread but the typo still shows up in the menu. I checked it out and he fixed his post correctly, but for some reason the typo remains in the menu.

FYI: I tried flushing my cashe and forcing a hard refresh but the typo remains... you can try fixing it and see for yourself...

[Iceaxe]

North and South Coyote Butte?
The Wave?

[tanya]

The good stuff is at the end Richie. Sorry... but the guys have given you some great alternatives. Its a long hike. We took another guy in with us and we were lucky Bo did not have to carry him out! It did not seem long to us because we were hiking long hikes all the time, but for someone that does not, that is a very long hike.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/mineral-gulch.htm

[Richie]

North and South Coyote Buttes we have already seen. Cobra Arch seems to be interesting but not enough for a whole day hike.

The hikes in East Zion that were recommended I will google this evening.

Thank you all for your replies.

Richie

[Richie]

Have you done any hikes in the east canyon area of Zion: Many Pools, Center of the Universe, Crawford Wash? Ok, just judging by the pictures "Many Pools" isn't really what we're looking for.
Center of the Universe: I googled for that one and received a few thousand links, but not really a route description
While googling for Crawford Wash I saw a picture that shows what we're looking for (although this particular hike seems to be too much for us). It was on Tanyas website (by the way that's an incredible good website!): http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-parunuweap.htm

Richie

EDIT: Hikes don't have to be only in Zion. Everything between Zion and Boulder, UT is fine.

[Richie]

Has someone been in Neon Canyon - HITRR? This canyon seems to be so beautiful, but when I read travel reports it always sounds like the canyon is very short. I'm not sure if the hike to the canyon is also nice. Don't want to do a long, rather boring hike just for 20 minutes in a slot. Can someone tell me about the hike?

Richie

[tanya]

Thanks Richie.... Many Pools can be a nice easy stroll or a tough hike all the way to Zion's East Rim. Its best done on a dry winter day or anytime there has been a lot of water. Its lack luster in the summer. On the http://www.zionnational-park.com website the hikes are listed from easiest to hardest. Many Pools is near the top -easier. You might want to look at the hikes between the 2. http://www.zionnational-park.com/hiking-zion-national-park.htm

You can do Parunuweap (East Fork of the Virgin River) in the winter - and its a good all day hike with great scenery that takes you to the river and back the same way you came. These directions avoid the technical section of Fat Mans Misery.... You would have to carry a wet/dry suit, etc... to explore in the river, but I like just the hike to the Powell Plaque and back this time of year.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/parunuweap-hike.htm

[Richie]

Thanks Tanya. The time of travelling there is our biggest problem we have right now. Because right now it looks like we do half Oregon and half Southwest. First one almost summer is better, in Southwest earlier would be better. Altough we hiked Big Horn Canyon last year in July and it was ok. Just camping at the Valley of Fire was horrible. I was sweating that I should have worn a wetsuit in the tent :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Richie]

I had a look at your great album of Parunuweap Canyon. When you do this hike in late spring, how far can we hike it without a wetsuit? Is it possible to see some of the Narrows or is Powell Plaque the end of the trip?

[tanya]

I don't like to be in cold water so I opt for this as a summer trip and also avoid taking a wet/drysuit when I can. Others might have different opinions but I would think the best time to do Pweap is late summer/early fall while the water is warm, lower and yet its not as hot as mid-summer. Perhaps late August to early September. You have to hike in the water to see the narrows. What you would see in a winter hike without the wet/drysuit would be the river and the plaque. Bo just always walks right to things, so its never been a problem, its like he has some bat radar or something, but others have a hard time finding it. You enter the river right by it though. I went through the first time when the water was high and it was a challenge getting through the river! Lost a camera, and was exhausted at its end!

[Richie]

Thank you Tanya.
Right now it looks like we will be there in the last 10 days of June.

[tanya]

Another hike that is wonderful that time of year, and which has a small window in which its usually done is Bridge Mountain to Crawford Arch.
You would need one climber with you, but Bo is usually up for taking new people out.

There are 2 arches along this hike. Its one of my favorites.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-bridge-mountain.htm

39681

[Richie]

Thanks Tanya. I already saw that one on your website. You see, I spent a lot of time on your website :mrgreen:

Guess I will make more plans this weekend because I ordered Kelseys' book yesterday. Then I can decide how many days we need in GSENM area and how many in the Zion Area.

[tanya]

:wink:

[Philippe]

Another idea "off the beaten path" in Zion : East Temple Loop. Beautiful scenery, no trail and just slickrock most of the hike, nobody, needs just a couple of hours. You can see some pictures of it in the fifth part of my report of my 2009 trip (http://voyageforum.com/voyage/etats-unis_ouest_americain_2009_decouverte_nouveaux_site s_en_dehors_des_sentiers_battus_partie_n_5_D372627 2/), at day 18 (Google translation do an acceptable job)

Philippe

[Richie]

Has anyone of you ever been to Deer Canyon and/or Tank Canyon near Skutumpah Road?

@ Philippe : Just read your report 2009 (by the way: google translation can sometimes be so funny :mrgreen::mrgreen: - Unfortunately it always did only translate the first half of the page).

The pictures are so incredible beautiful :hail2thechief::hail2thechief::hail2thechief:

[Philippe]

Hi Richie,


@ Philippe : Just read your report 2009 (by the way: google translation can sometimes be so funny :mrgreen::mrgreen: - Unfortunately it always did only translate the first half of the page).

Did you translate it in English or in German ?

Which part did you read ?

I just tried the Google translation in English (using the button on the Google bar) and the whole text that I wrote was translated in English, but some of the comments further on the page were not trandslated.


The pictures are so incredible beautiful :hail2thechief::hail2thechief::hail2thechief:

Thank you very much, I am happy to read that you appreciated them.

Philippe

[Richie]

Did you translate it in English or in German ?

Tried to translate it in German. But probably it could also been caused by my internet connection. It was very slow.


Thank you very much, I am happy to read that you appreciated them.

Really. Some of the best shots I've ever seen in my life.

[Philippe]

Really. Some of the best shots I've ever seen in my life.

:oops::oops::oops:

[Richie]

I especially love that one where it says "Un petit dinosaure :" Also the Devils Garden at sunset pictures are great.

[Philippe]

I especially love that one where it says "Un petit dinosaure :"
I like this one too (it won an award at a contest organized by the photoclub of the big company where I work).

Little Finland, Nevada :

39717


Also the Devils Garden at sunset pictures are great.

The light was great during a short time and I was nearly runing from one place to another shooting handeld. Sometimes, we are lucky with the light...

Philippe

[tanya]

Wow! Spectacular!:eek2:

[Richie]

Tanya, you said you want to visit the Brainrocks Area near Buckskin Trailhead?
Do you own "Hiking and Exploring the Paria River 5th Edition"? There's a very good chapter about that area in this book, including directions.

[Richie]

@ Philippe:

Have you been just exploring the Edmaiers Secret area north of the dome shaped mountain. Had a look into Kelseys book today and he describes the area south of that mountain as much more photogenic.

[tanya]

I am sure I do. I have most of Kelsy's books! He is amazing!

[Richie]

Tried to make a "time-shedule". The trip will be 22 days overall with half Southwest - half Oregon coast (flight from L.V. to Portland)

So the Southwest-part will look like this:

Day 1: Arriva at L.V.
Day 2: L.V. - Valley of Fire State Park -Kanab
Day 3: Kanab - Water Pockets (West Clark Bench)
Day 4: Kanab - Middle Reservoir / Sand Hills if we can make it there, if not: Cobra Arch and Paria Rimrocks or Sidestep Canyon
Day 5: Kanab - Deer Canyon / Tank Canyon - Escalante
Day 6: Escalante - Phipps Arch (but not starting at Escalante River Trailhead but Old Sheffield Road)
Day 7: Escalante - Not planned yet
Day 8: Escalante - Cannonville Slot Canyons - Springdale
Day 9: Zion - East Temple Look
Day 10: Zion - Not planned yet
Day 11: Half Day at Zion - Las Vegas
Day 12: Flight to Portland

I'm not sure about a few things:
The day that is not planned in Escalante: We could either go to a slot canyon, then Zebra and Tunnel Slot come to my mind. But we prefer colorful slickrock (like Yellow Rock or Big Hor Canyon). But I'm not sure which area would be a nice spot for that. I#ve seen a lot of great picks from around Sheffield Road but not much of directions.

Deer Canyon and/or Tank Canyon: I found that one on Kelseys book. There are not many picks around in the internet. Has anyone been there and can say somethings about those canyons?

Richie

[Philippe]

Interesting schedule with seldom seen places !

I did appreciate the loop Zebra Slot - Tunnel Slot with nice slickrock in Zebra and between the 2 slots.

I've never been in Deer Canyon and Tank Canyon but Isa & Steffen were not so enthusiastic than Kelsey when they wrote a short report about it here (http://www.isaczermak.com/utah_bericht.html).

Philippe

[rjtmmt]

We have visited southern Utah in Feb. for the last 6 years, and I can vouch for Tanya's lodging. We love the accomodations, but have yet to see Tanya there, probably off hiking. My questions revolve around what type and thickness of wet suit or possible dry suit to wear. We hiked in to subway in 12 inches of snow and high water last Feb. without wetsuits (had them but too stupid to put them on). Would the Parunuweap hike past Powell Marker be any deeper water than the subway. What mm thickness wetsuit do most people like and what do they use for footwear. I have the 5-10s, and neoprene socks, but that is not quite enough.
My nest question revolves around the picture of Devil's Garden. Are you speaking of the site on Hole in the Rock road or is there another one closer to Brainrock.
Finally, is there any recent info on Hole in the Rock road. I had heard that the road had been washed out and might not be repaired until Spring. We would like to do some of the slots in this area, but I am VERY aware of the problems of non paved roads in that area.
To the person who plans to spend half of their vacation in Oregon, My wife and I hike the gorge area every week, and we might have info if you need any.
Randy

[Richie]

Philippe, I already talked to Isa about Deer Canyon and Tank Canyon and she already told me that she wasn't so enthusiastic. But she also said that they didn't hike it to the end because of the weather conditions so there might be something interesting further down. I was especially searching for hikes on Skutumpah Road because it would be a good connection between Kanab and Page (nobody knows when they will open CCR again because of that Rock-Slide). We've already been to Willis Creek, Bull Valley Gorge seems to have a few obstacles and Lick Wash doesn't seem to be so impressive like Bull Valley and Willis Creek. I'm not sure if there are more interesting hikes in this area?


I did appreciate the loop Zebra Slot - Tunnel Slot with nice slickrock in Zebra and between the 2 slots.
So this is one thing I wasn't sure about. I've read a lot of reports about both Canyons (Zebra seems to be very beautiful but I guess it isn't that long - Tunnel seems to be ok), but most reports didn't describe a lot of the area around. So I'm not sure if it's mostly boring wash-hiking or if the hike itself is also interesting.

Middle Reservoir: We will only do that one if we go there with Steve from Paria Outpost. I have the information that even Steve says it's a rough road there and it will take 2 hrs each way, and I know the driving abilities of Steve. He's going parts of HRVR with 60 Miles/hour :eek2:. Cobra Arch would be an alternative but I'm not sure if the arch is worth 1,5 hrs. of walking in the Sand when we're not the biggest arch-fans (we're more "slickrock-lovers" :mrgreen:). With Cobra I also have the problem that I can find a lot about the arch but not about the surrounding area.

Richie

[Richie]

To the person who plans to spend half of their vacation in Oregon, My wife and I hike the gorge area every week, and we might have info if you need any.
Randy

Thank you Randy, but we mostly will be in the Coast Area. When I've done with the Southwest-Part I will do this planning seperatly.


We would like to do some of the slots in this area, but I am VERY aware of the problems of non paved roads in that area.

One Canyon that is very beautiful and interesting, but which is not really a slot canyon (but that has beautiful narrows) would be Big Horn Canyon. With that one you won't have big problems with non-paved roads because Old Sheffield Road is mostly in good condition. Like on every dirt road there can be bad conditions that make the road impassable but I would say that the chance to find good road conditions on Old Sheffield Road is bigger than on a lot of other dirtroads. Also you don't have to go that far on the dirt road. I'll have to take a look on my notes, but I would say it was 1,6 miles. West Fork of Big Horn is said to have some interesting slot canyon parts, but we've only been to East Fork and Middle Fork so I can't tell you about that part.

Richie

[Philippe]

We've already been to Willis Creek, Bull Valley Gorge seems to have a few obstacles and Lick Wash doesn't seem to be so impressive like Bull Valley and Willis Creek. I'm not sure if there are more interesting hikes in this area?


Sorry Richie, I've only done Willis Creek, the beginning of Bull Valley Gorge and the first part of Lick Wash on Skutumpah Rooad area.


So this is one thing I wasn't sure about. I've read a lot of reports about both Canyons (Zebra seems to be very beautiful but I guess it isn't that long - Tunnel seems to be ok), but most reports didn't describe a lot of the area around. So I'm not sure if it's mostly boring wash-hiking or if the hike itself is also interesting.


Zebra is beautiful, photogenic but short and you have to be sure it is not filled with water. Tunel slot is even shorter and is less beautiful but still interesting as the shortcut between the both canyons on a slickrock aera with moki marbles. Halfway Hollow has some good striations but the part of Harris Wash in this aera is not interesting on my opinion.

Philippe

[Richie]

Guess tomorrow I will have a look how fare it would be to hike Zebra first and then explore at least a part of West Fork of Big Horn Canyon.


the beginning of Bull Valley Gorge and the first part of Lick Wash on Skutumpah Rooad area.


And how did you like it?

[Philippe]

Lick wash didn't impressed me so much but it was still a cool hike.

Philippe

[rjtmmt]

Richie

We hiked down to zebra and tunnel two years ago. It was feb. and no one around,so very quiet. The hike starts out in cattle grazing area then enters a shallow draw. There is a nice arch and some small side slots before entering Harris wash, but I would not say that any of this compares to Buckskin. We found Zebra to be very short and it was not the best lighting or else the color was not as bright as I had hoped. Tunnel was very full of water and cold so we did not do the loop. It was a quiet nice hike, but I would probably look at another slot before going to this one again. I do admit that I enjoy the slots over the slickrock, and the area around Zebra and Tunnel does have a large variety of slickrock. You mentioned going to Antelope for pics. If you go be prepared for disney land type crowd. It is difficult to get time to take pics when the rays of light are at their best. People complain all of the time about crowds in their pictures. Apparently there are some very beautiful slots that are just as photogenic just below Antelope, but they are on Navaho land and they are off limits. I have seen pictures taken by a person who hiked in from Lake Powell and they were outstanding
Enjoy the Oregon coast. We have only lived here for 28 years, so we have seen most of it as well.
Randy

[Richie]

I've read somewhere that the East Temple Loop is not for people afraid of height. So I'm not sure about that one.
Guess for the two days at Zion we will make our choice from these trails: Parunuweap, Jug Handle Arch, East Temple Loop and Observation Point.

Richie

[ratagonia]

Has someone been in Neon Canyon - HITRR? This canyon seems to be so beautiful, but when I read travel reports it always sounds like the canyon is very short. I'm not sure if the hike to the canyon is also nice. Don't want to do a long, rather boring hike just for 20 minutes in a slot. Can someone tell me about the hike?

Richie

Neon is a great route, but now you are crossing the border into "technical canyoneering". The "hike" portion is down from Egypt trailhead, to the Golden Cathedral and back out - a full day, and hot if it is hot out. Many options available if you want to do the technical part, but tends to need wetsuits and ropes and sometimes needs at least three people.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/esca/neon.htm

Tom

[Richie]

Hi Tom,

it was a typo. Had read to much of different canyons on that day and so I wrote Neon and meant Zebra.

Sorry
Richie

[Richie]

Guess I changed my opinion for Many Pools after seeing that pictures here:

http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/manypools.cfm

Looks great!

About East Temple Loop:
When one website says, that this is a steep route: Would you rate it more or less difficult than angels landing?

[Philippe]

Guess I changed my opinion for Many Pools after seeing that pictures here:
http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/manypools.cfm Looks great!?

When I did this hike there was no water (or very few muddy one) in the potholes so it was not so much interesting. Here is a picture (http://www.phschuler.com/usa2006/ZION/MISCELLANEOUS/slides/Many%20Pools%20canyon.html)and another (http://www.phschuler.com/usa2006/ZION/MISCELLANEOUS/slides/Many%20Pools%20canyon%20%20.html)than I shot there.


About East Temple Loop:
When one website says, that this is a steep route: Would you rate it more or less difficult than angels landing?

It is less difficult as there are no sheer drop-offs with many people on the steep route that can make you slide and fall to your death. Going up to the saddle at the foot of East Temple is quite easy, going down on the other side is much steeper and you have to choose your own best route. It is also better to have Joe's map and good skills to find the right route for this hike, choosing a wrong way can make you in trouble.

Philippe

[Richie]

Thanks Philippe,

in case the route down is to scary is it also worth just hiking up the saddle and back the same way?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Philippe]

Thanks Philippe,
in case the route down is to scary is it also worth just hiking up the saddle and back the same way?


Doing that, you would miss the best part of the hike. This hike is not scary, you have just to choose the right route to go down after the saddle and if you don't feeel secure you just try another route on your right or on your left.

Philippe

[Richie]

Thank you so much, Philippe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mattandersao]

This hike is not scary, you have just to choose the right route to go down after the saddle and if you don't feel secure you just try another route on your right or on your left.Im not sure when you are arriving but it has been raining the last two days and this hike would be scary on the wet slickrock. I wouldnt be surprised if it is even snowing on the upper east side.

From Joe's website "Do not attempt this route in the rain as slippery slickrock could make many parts of this route a nightmare."

As for many pools with last couple days rain and cool temperatures I would guess those pools would be full for quite a while!

[Philippe]

Im not sure when you are arriving but it has been raining the last two days and this hike would be scary on the wet slickrock. I wouldnt be surprised if it is even snowing on the upper east side.

You are perfectly right, this hike has not to be attempted in wet conditions when the slickrock slopes are slippery but as Richie is planning his trip in June (the dryest month of the year) I hope he will benefit from dry conditions for this hike.

Philippe

[mattandersao]

LOL JUNE! :angryfire: I guess I should have read the previous postings...

[Richie]

So I guess on one of the days we will hike the East Temple Loop.

I have to think about the other day. The Zion Narrows are beautiful according to the pictures I have seen. How deep is the water normaly at the end of June? I'm mostly afraid to do that hike because of the camera equipment. The bags I own will keep rain away but they're not waterproof. Any suggestions for that problem?

[trackrunner]

The Zion Narrows are beautiful according to the pictures I have seen. How deep is the water normaly at the end of June?

The answer to that question is it depends. Normally by the end of June it's hikeable with most places ankle to shin deap with a few waist deap spots. In heavy snow pack years the narrows haven't opened until July.


I'm mostly afraid to do that hike because of the camera equipment. The bags I own will keep rain away but they're not waterproof. Any suggestions for that problem?

dry bags, dry keg, or a case (pelican & otter box are popular brands).

[Richie]

Ok, drybag is what I have to google for. Thanks.


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[oldno7]

Ok, drybag is what I have to google for. Thanks.




I use these a lot and they hold up well.
http://pacoutdoor.com/water-gear/view/pneumo-lightweight-carry

[Richie]

Thanks for the link.

I'm still not sure about the second day (too much hikes to decide from). East Temple Loop on the first day, but on the other day: Parunuweap, Zion Narrows or Observation Point....

[tanya]

If you have never done Zion Narrows, its magnificent!

East Temple Loop is a so so hike when you want away from the crowds. Love Pweap... think its June when you are going? If so I would opt for those. Pweap is a long, hard hike. Zion Narrows for someone that hikes often is a medium hike. East Temple Loop is fairy easy in comparison and good when you want an easy day. The Bighorn are getting really common in that area.

[Richie]

If so I would opt for those.

For which of those? East Temple + Pweap, East Temple + Narrows , or Pweap and Narrows?


East Temple Loop is a so so hike when you want away from the crowds.

What do you mean with "so so hike"?

[tanya]

It means if I were traveling a very long way to come to Zion, and had not done some of the parks best hikes, this would not be one I would do. I love East Temple Loop but I live right by the park and can do any of them anytime. Parunuweap and Narrows are great hikes. I love Many Pools too, but its a "so so" hike.

I should go back a read this thread to see what you have done. If you have not done Zion's classics, you should start there. They are magnificent and Zion Narrows and Angels Landing are at the top of the magnificent list! !



Those that have hiked a lot in the park tend to be like me and enjoy the east side of the park more than the Canyon, but first you must experience the Canyons best to appreciate the rest. ~in my humble opinion~

[Richie]

Hikes that we have done so far are Scouts Lookout. Didn't made it to Angels Landing because of my fear of hight in combination with the number of people up there was too much for that one. We also did the Hike to Hidden Canyon and Canyon Overlook. It just thought that Narrows+Parunuweap would be a bad idea because both are Canyons. I was thinking to do one "Canyon Hike" and one with Scenic Overlooks. We also have another half day that is not planned yet.

[tanya]

So you have almost been to Angels Landing and almost been to Observation Point. A lot of Parunuweap is hiking over slickrock and you can check out Checkerboard Arch along the way. Its not an easy, quick hike getting into the canyon itself.

Okay, I can agree with East Temple Loop.

Some other option where you can get up high on the east side: Lady Mountain... best view in Zion! Need to take along a climber though. Progeny Peak and Two Pines Arch are nice options. I can't say I have a favorite out of Many Pools, Progeny and East Temple Loop. I like them all.



http://www.zionnational-park.com/hiking-zion-national-park.htm

[Richie]

and almost been to Observation Point.

Really? I guess from Hidden Canyon to Observation Point it's still a long way to go??


Some other option where you can get up high on the east side: Lady Mountain... best view in Zion! Need to take along a climber though. Progeny Peak and Two Pines Arch are nice options. I can't say I have a favorite out of Many Pools, Progeny and East Temple Loop. I like them all.


When I have read it right on your website, Lady Mountain and Progeny Peak both need climbing skills. So I guess this won't be the right stuff for us. I guess Many Pools can be on a half day? Because we have to full days and on the third day we head for L.V. where we want to arrive in the afternoon which means we could do Many Pools on that day (According to your website 2 hrs).

So what do you think about:

1. East Temple Loop
2. Zion Narrows
3. Many Pools

?

[tanya]

A ways yes, and its a fun hike to the point. I have always liked the views from along the trail better than the end.

1. East Temple Loop
2. Zion Narrows
3. Many Pools

That sounds like a plan. You should get some great photos.

[Richie]

Ok, I guess I have most of our trip planned right now. Here's what it looks like:

1. Arrival in Las Vegas
2. Las Vegas -> Kanab
3. Kanab -> Water Pockets of West Clark Bench
4. Kanab -> Middle Reservoir if we do the guided tour because of the deep sand there. Otherwise Sidestep Canyon or Cobra Arch
5. Kanab -> Tank Canyon -> Escalante
6. Escalante -> Phipps Arch starting from Old Sheffield Road
7. Escalante -> West Fork Big Horn Canyon or Zebra and Tunnel Slot
8. Escalante -> Cannonville Slot Canyons -> Zion
9. Zion -> East Temple Loop
10. Zion ->Zion Narrows
11. Zion - Many Pools -> Las Vegas
12. Las Vegas -> Portland
13. Portland -> Cannon Beach -> Ecola State Park -> ?
14. ? -> Three Capes Scenic Route -> Lincoln City
15. Lincoln City -> Yachats -> Heceta Heads -> Coos Bay
16. Coos Bay -> Golden and Silver Falls -> Sunset Bay State Park
17. Coos Bay -> Crater Lake
18. Crater Lake -> Sisters
19. Sisters -> Salem
20. Salem -> Portland
21. Portland
22. Departure

[tanya]

Great Schedule! Enjoy! :clap:

[Cave Dawg]

There are some really stoner hikes along the Cottonwood Wash Road which is easily accessible. The area around the Cockscomb is out of this world.

[tanya]

What are your favorites. I would like to explore that area this summer.

[Richie]

But I think CCR is closed because of a rock slide.

2009 I hiked Yellow Rock. This one is really incredible.


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[ratagonia]

So I guess on one of the days we will hike the East Temple Loop.

I have to think about the other day. The Zion Narrows are beautiful according to the pictures I have seen. How deep is the water normaly at the end of June? I'm mostly afraid to do that hike because of the camera equipment. The bags I own will keep rain away but they're not waterproof. Any suggestions for that problem?

I have not done Joe's East Temple Route, but I have wandered some in the area. I think if you were turned back by Angels Landing, you will not be able to do the East Temple Route. http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/easttemple.cfm

The weather and conditions in June are highly variable. The Narrows could be open and wonderful, or it could be closed due to the spring flood. It can be very hot out, in which case spending all day in the sun (on many of the routes suggested) is unlikely to be fun.

I have done Tunnel and Zebra in early March, and it was OK. so-so is an American expression meaning 'mediocre' or not worth it, or "OK". Bighorn from the Sheffield Road takes you into much the same area - in fact, might be exactly the same area, just that the two authors use different names.

If open, the Zion Narrows is an awesome hike. You might want to rent gear for that at Zion Adventure Company in Springdale. We will not know if the Narrows is hikable in June until we get close to the time of your trip.

I hate to be the sour puss here, but people have tossed out a lot of suggestions that sound very unreasonable to me, for YOU, in JUNE.

I would also throw out the West Rim Trail as an option, from the top. The terrain at the top near Lava Point is very different from the Canyon floor. You can hike out the West Rim Trail a ways (for instance to Potato Hollow) and then hike back. Or you could do the through-hike, but it is quite a long ways (16 miles).

Tom :moses:

[tanya]

I agree with all that Tom said, except I think Joe got his hike from Bo and I and its just a little slickrock scrambling from Canyon Overlook and then hike on slickrock, through a wash and out onto the highway near the tunnel, a bit up from where you started. Its not going up East Temple. I don't remember anything bad in it except the scrambling at first, but then I have no fear of hikes. Perhaps Tom is right on with that as well.

[Philippe]

Hi Tanya,


I don't remember anything bad in it except the scrambling at first, but then I have no fear of hikes.

Do you mean "I have no fear of heights" (I am not sure...) ?

I agree with you that there is nothing bad in the East Temple Loop, but some "average" tourists who are not used to steep slopes of slickrock and who have more or less fear of hights could feel not confortable in the descent after the saddle (especially if they don't choose the easiest route).

Philippe

[Richie]

I have done Tunnel and Zebra in early March, and it was OK. so-so is an American expression meaning 'mediocre' or not worth it, or "OK". Bighorn from the Sheffield Road takes you into much the same area - in fact, might be exactly the same area, just that the two authors use different names.


It depends on what you mean with same AREA. Big Horn and Zebra are different Canyons. Zebra and Tunnel are little farther down on HITRR. We've done Big Horn from both ends (OSR and HITRR). By the way, Big Horn Canyon is one of my favorite spots in the Southwest.

This site is in German: http://zehrer-online.de/htm_hikes_bighornzebra.htm but there's a topo map. The left blue line running north/south is Big Horn - the right one Zebra. The connecting blue line running east/west is Harris Wash. The tour on that website describes a roundtrip with both canyons.


I think if you were turned back by Angels Landing, you will not be able to do the East Temple Route. http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/easttemple.cfm

I guess I have to explain. I have no trouble with steep slickrock. When I talk about fear of height I'm talking about stuff where it's going straight down. And that was my problem with Angels Landing. There are exposed parts where it's like: If you slip you fall down straight. If it's just steep but possible without CLIMBING or without going down STRAIGHT I'm fine.

Now I'm hoping that Cottonwood Canyon Road opens again until June. Right now it looks like we have one more day, and after hiking the direct route to Yellow Rock last year, I would love to do the longer hike (Box Canyon - Red Top - Yellow Rock Valley - Yellow Rock).

[Philippe]

When I talk about fear of height I'm talking about stuff where it's going straight down.

Ther is not that kind of stuff on East Temple loop, so you should be fine.


after hiking the direct route to Yellow Rock last year, I would love to do the longer hike (Box Canyon - Red Top - Yellow Rock Valley - Yellow Rock).

That's a very nice hike in the wilderness with very colorful rocks, I enjoyed it a lot when I did it 4 years ago (with Isa and Steffen). The return walking on Cottonwood Canyon Road will be quite boring if you cannot manage a car shuttle.

Philippe

[tanya]

I think I am lost and need to read the dang thread. :lol8:

[Richie]

Why are you lost Tanya?


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[tanya]

Because I just show up.. post and don't ready anything. lol

[Richie]

Different question:
Any recommendations for a good place to stay while at Zion? We don't like the very expensive Motel but prefer the small and clean ones. We also like Cabins to stay.

[tanya]

If you stop at my place, we have the original cabins from Zion Canyon. We don't take reservations for them though. They are just rented off the road and not every expensive. We cant take reservations because they are often rented along with my Grandmas house. I think they are about 65 a night, but they are right on the highway and it can be noisy due to traffic at night.

http://www.zionnational-park.com/cabins.htm

39950

Our BW rooms are over 100 a night, but nearby there are budget motels. That little one called "The Cabin" is cute. There are also bed and breakfasts. The Historic Smith Hotel B & B is right at the entrance to the Grand Staircase in Glendale. Its about 8 miles from Mt. Carmel jct., which is 12 miles from the east side of Zion. This side is good for you since you are visiting other things on the on east side of the park.

Right inside the park, in the canyon, is the Zion Lodge itself.

http://www.eastziontourismcouncil.org/zion-national-park-lodging.htm

In Springdale there are a lot of budget like motels. Nothing is very cheap around Zion though.

[Richie]

The picture looks great. Are there a lot of people in early July or do we have really a good chance at that time of the year to get one of those cabins?

Just wondering: If you can't take reservations why's there a reservation telephone number in your link?

[tanya]

We do for the Rental House, but not the cabin itself. The phone number on the side, is part of the template and its the same on every page. The hotel desk has trouble with that, but its part of the template. :mrgreen:


How we work. We are always full in the best western in late spring, summer and fall, but we leave 10% of the rooms to rent off the road (we get a far higher price that way) and to give us rooms to work with. After we fill those rooms, or when they are almost full, (which is usually late at night) then we give people the option of our non-best western rooms. So if you show up early in the day, knowing about the room, and the house itself is not rented, then they will rent them to you. There are 2 cabins, 2 historic rooms and 2 more rooms we rent that way. The house rents often for a week or more at a time. That's why we don't rent them by reservation. We loose a week or more rent on the entire house if we take a reservation on a cabin for one night.

Number 5 is the best room of the bunch and is the same price as the cabins or a bit more, but its a good deal. The windows overlook the east fork of the Virgin River. That one has 2 queen beds in it, 2 bathroom sinks, shower and big jacuzzi tub. When Bo crashes at the rental house, he always heads for that room. Shane stayed there once with Bo and they both headed for that room. It was before we remodeled and had air conditioning going. I just always thought it funny, that in that huge house they ended up in the same room.

[Richie]

So I got it right? You're running that lodge?
By the way. We we're driving up 89 a couple of times and there's street crossing where you go straight ahead when you want to go to the Escalante area and make a left into Zion. Is it that Motel that's right there?

What would you suggest to do? Hope that one of the rooms is available or reserve one of the BW rooms in advance?

[tanya]

Actually I own it along with my brother and mother.

The Thunderbird is at the Junction of SR-9 from Zion (12 miles) and US-89. At 89 you can go north to Bryce (60 miles) and Escalante or the other way to Grand Canyon.

Its in Mt. Carmel Junction. Its not really a town. The hotel sits on a golf course. There are 2 gas stations there, and a budge motel (with high prices) across the highway. My Grandma's house and another small house and our small RV park.

The towns and where I live are north of Mt. Carmel Jct. This map shows it well:

http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-national-park-road-map.htm

[Richie]

Ok now I know which hotel it is. We we're driving past it 3 or 4 times.