Utah SAR

[canyondevil]

Here in Colorado, if anyone (resident or non) purchases a hunting or fishing license, they pay an extra 25 cents on top of the price of the license that goes to a SAR fund and covers the cost of any SAR expenses in case of emergency. It does not cover medical expenses, only SAR. For people who do not have a hunting or fishing license, they can buy a "CORSAR Card" for $3 a year that will cover you the same.

Does anyone know if Utah has a similar program, where you can purchase a card that will cover SAR expenses?

[Iceaxe]

Utah does NOT have a SAR fund that is supported by the general public through a secondary expense. Many think it's a bad idea..... Here is a pretty good thread on the topic.

Cost of safety - Hikers should help pay for rescue
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?35406

[Deathcricket]

I could be talking out my ass, but that has never stopped me before..... I believe we just rescue the people for free with tax money. Which of course is a really bad idea. I feel that the people who use the services should pay them. Iceaxe started a thread about his a year ago, but I can't find it.

[Deathcricket]

LOL Ice beats me to it by 2 mins! That will teach me to open a bunch of threads in tabs and not read this one first :P...

I was stuck in the "Happy birthday Savanna" thread contemplating coins with Tanya. :haha:

[Bubbles]

I have a CORSAR card, but it is NOT an insurance policy in the event that a rescue is required. It does NOT "cover you" in any way, it simply contributes to the pool of funds meted out to recognized SAR organizations in Colorado. It is a donation.

A lot of people have the perception that they will get to the trail head after a legitimate SAR that the responding agency will hand them a bill for services rendered unless the rescuee pulls a CORSAR card out of his/her wallet. This is not the case. SAR is free in Colorado for the same reason it is free most other places - to charge for it would discourage people from calling, and more people would die.

Just want to make that clear. For several years I thought that SAR billed people who did not have a card/hunting license.

[scubabryan]

In Nevada, there is no charge to the individual who requires SAR. Last year, the SAR guys from Metro (our local police department here in Vegas) put on a class that I attended. It was very interesting. They said if they charged for rescue, people would be hesitant to call and therefore, more people will most likely die. They used Red Rock here in Las Vegas as an example. If SAR is called to rescue someone out at Red Rock, they will fly out there, pick you out of a canyon or off a wall and drop you off in the parking area. However, if you require them to fly you back into town or require medical attention and have to be flown to UMC, you will pay big time. I had a buddy take a 30 ft fall out at Red Rock earlier this year and he had to be flight for lifed to UMC, a total of 17 miles and his bill was $16,500.

During the class, the SAR team told us they get paid the same whether they are sitting in the office twiddling their thumbs or flying around in their helicopter rescuing people and that they would much rather be out flying around in their cool helicopters, rescuing people than sitting on their butts. They are on stand by full time so they want to be put to use and don't want people to hesitate calling for rescue.

[Bubbles]

During the class, the SAR team told us they get paid the same whether they are sitting in the office twiddling their thumbs or flying around in their helicopter rescuing people and that they would much rather be out flying around in their cool helicopters, rescuing people than sitting on their butts. They are on stand by full time so they want to be put to use and don't want people to hesitate calling for rescue.

I talked to officers in Los Angeles County Sheriff's Rescue Five helo unit, and they are the same way. They have ancient Sikorsky Sea Kings and they are ALWAYS busy. It seemed to me that the SAR doctrine out there was short haul first, then try other options. They get paid either way.

[ratagonia]

In Nevada, there is no charge to the individual who requires SAR. Last year, the SAR guys from Metro (our local police department here in Vegas) put on a class that I attended. It was very interesting. They said if they charged for rescue, people would be hesitant to call and therefore, more people will most likely die. They used Red Rock here in Las Vegas as an example. If SAR is called to rescue someone out at Red Rock, they will fly out there, pick you out of a canyon or off a wall and drop you off in the parking area. However, if you require them to fly you back into town or require medical attention and have to be flown to UMC, you will pay big time. I had a buddy take a 30 ft fall out at Red Rock earlier this year and he had to be flight for lifed to UMC, a total of 17 miles and his bill was $16,500.

During the class, the SAR team told us they get paid the same whether they are sitting in the office twiddling their thumbs or flying around in their helicopter rescuing people and that they would much rather be out flying around in their cool helicopters, rescuing people than sitting on their butts. They are on stand by full time so they want to be put to use and don't want people to hesitate calling for rescue.

Yes, the guys and gals get paid anyway, but running the Heli is expensive, so that costs big bucs. If you or them call in Life Flight, that is a private medical service, and therefore is paid like all your medical bills - ie, your insurance company will do everything possible to get out of paying the bill. Same for if you take an Ambulance from the parking lot into the city - expensive, a medical expense.

Helicopters can make SAR operations much easier, and much cheaper. Also, the medical part can be billed. For instance, a canyoneer recently crushed his ankle just before the first rap into Heaps. A carryout from there (which could be a 4x4 from the top of Potato Hollow) would take 24 hours and 36 rangers for that time period. With the heli, the whole rescue was over in 4 hours, and Rick was in the hospital. Outcome from that = significantly better. Rescuers put at risk = significantly fewer. Total cost = probably about the same.

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

Helicopters and who pays is really a roll of the dice or luck of the draw....

If the helicopter is owned and operated by the public... meaning something like the Utah DPS helicopter, or a military helicpoter out of Nellis, you will probably never see a bill.... if its a private helicopter they are going to want some major coin.

For example.... the 4 guys that were just rescued out of No Man's with the DPS helicopter will never see a bill.

[canyondevil]

For several years I thought that SAR billed people who did not have a card/hunting license.

Thanks for clarifying that. It seems that this is what they (CO state govt) want you to believe, especially the Division of Wildlife. They mislead you when they tack that extra charge onto every license or boat/OHV registration. However I have no problem paying it to ensure there will be $$ there in case somebody has to save my ass.

[Iceaxe]

However I have no problem paying it to ensure there will be $$ there in case somebody has to save my ass.

My biggest problem with this type of tax/program is you are essentially being nicked a second time for a public service that you have already paid for.... why should hikers/hunters be singled out and asked to pay more? What is different about a SAR then say the police or fire department being called out to assist you?

The thing that I hate about this type of "tax" is hikers/hunters are being singled out because they are an easy target.... not because its serves a greater good...

[Bubbles]

The thing that I hate about this type of "tax" is hikers/hunters are being singled out because they are an easy target.... not because its serves a greater good...

I agree. I also think the public perception is far more negative on climbers/technical/extreme adventurers than it is on hunters and casual hikers, who BY FAR make up the majority of SAR call-outs. See: Mandated beacons on Mt. Hood, proposed increases to climbing fees on Denali, etc. The general public sees someone setting out to adventure with a rope, helmets, and gear and assumes that person is out to willingly put themselves in great danger, and as such is wishing harm upon themselves. If anything bad happens... "They should have known better."

However, you get a weekend warrior who starts up a 14er at 11am in the summer with only a bottle of Diet Pepsi, blows out his knee while boulder hopping in his flip-flops, and its "What a terrible accident!"

[mmac]

why should hikers/hunters be singled out and asked to pay more? What is different about a SAR then say the police or fire department being called out to assist you?

I think the difference here is that the ordinary taxpayer doesn't generally benefit from a SAR team. SAR isn't going to come find you at work if you have to stay late and forget to tell the wife...

[ratagonia]

I think the difference here is that the ordinary taxpayer doesn't generally benefit from a SAR team. SAR isn't going to come find you at work if you have to stay late and forget to tell the wife...

The most expensive SARs are for "kid wandered away from camp". So, while the public perception may be that they are out rescuing "experienced outdoorsmen" all the time, the reality is that they really do spend most of their time rescuing ordinary taxpayers who wander out in the desert without the savvy to find their way out.

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

I think the difference here is that the ordinary taxpayer doesn't generally benefit from a SAR team. SAR isn't going to come find you at work if you have to stay late and forget to tell the wife...

Using your reasoning... those without cars should pay more for public transportation because they put a greater burden on the system.

[mmac]

Using your reasoning... those without cars should pay more for public transportation because they put a greater burden on the system.

They do. Most public transit systems still require the rider to pay a fee despite the public support from taxes.

Haven't you ever bought a bus pass?