Family wants answers in police shooting that left unarmed man dead

[accadacca]

Wow! Interesting. Did you hear about this?

Dashcam VIDEO: http://www.ksl.com/?sid=13224585&nid=148



Nichols can be heard shouting, "Freeze or I'll shoot you. Freeze! *Bang*Bang* Freeze. Wade, I'm going to shoot you, get down on the [expletive] ground."

What Perez says next to Pennington still haunts the family: "You're dead, mother [expletive] !"

"How could you, with any type of conscience, yell at somebody like that?" Dennis Pennington asks.

Other officers arrive within minutes.

Nichols can be heard saying, "I don't know man, there goes my job."

As officers talk about it, Perez motions to his dashcam, which is still recording and Nichols says, "Oh no."

Perez responds, "Sorry man."

[Deathcricket]

Yeah I give the officer a pass on this. Adrenaline is running so I can see the "You're dead, mother [expletive] !" and the guy had 22 counts of burglary, was running from the cops, rammed patrol cars and slammed into a person's house. I think a car should be considered a lethal weapon and endangering the public. How many innocent people die from car chases every year? Pedestrians on the street, other drivers, etc. The officers use of deadly force to stop this driver and safeguard innocent public is authorized in my book.

[Jaxx]

Sounds like he had a drug problem that he was feeding with robbery. Was he on drugs when the chase was happening?

This could have been avoided all together but it sounds like the victim has been making some very poor lifestyle decisions. 41 is too old to be acting like that. He made the Police feel like shots were necessary. What that the right decision for the Police? It really doesn't matter for the victim, he is dead now.
It's not that I don't trust Police. It's that I don't trust other people in general with my life. You put other people in that situation and some will pull the trigger, good decision or not you are still dead.

His brother said he has payed his debt to society? Sounds like he didn't go to drug rehab, and was scheduled to go to jail. I wonder what he did to repay.

[hank moon]

Yeah I give the officer a pass on this. Adrenaline is running so I can see the "You're dead, mother [expletive] !" and the guy had 22 counts of burglary, was running from the cops, rammed patrol cars and slammed into a person's house. I think a car should be considered a lethal weapon and endangering the public. How many innocent people die from car chases every year? Pedestrians on the street, other drivers, etc. The officers use of deadly force to stop this driver and safeguard innocent public is authorized in my book.

you are missing a key detail: he HAD been stopped before the officers killed him. for a libertarian, you seem to give (abusive) gov't authority a pass quite often!

[Jaxx]

you are missing a key detail: he HAD been stopped before the officers killed him

The officer said he "lunged at him" and he shot. The brother has a good point though. How would he hear him if his window was up and sirens are going? Not important if the victim really lunged at the cop.

[hank moon]

"stopped" addressing the argument that his vehicle was a lethal weapon. the general threat to others that dcket mentioned had been neutralized.


officers are equipped with tools and training to deal with "lunging" in non-lethal ways. they should have been used in this case. even the officer understood that he had screwed up with the comment about losing his job.

[Sombeech]

The cop could have just shut his mouth and been totally justified.

Payed his debt to society? I'm assuming he meant up until this incident....

When he's reporting he got rammed those 3 times, total BS. The cop needs a scolding for that one. But in the end, it's good that the taxpayers aren't buying this criminal anymore meals.

[Jaxx]

I think it takes it to a new level if you are on a high speed chase. The cops don't know what you have in your car with you and you have already shown you are an idiot who will take it to the next level to get away. Lunging was the last bad decision in a line of poor decisions.

Do I think cops should just be given the green light to open fire on someone. No way. But even if you think the police are in the wrong. You act nicely and then live to sue them later.

[hank moon]

jaxx, in essence you are saying that the cops' bad behavior is justified by the criminal's - would you agree with that?

[Deathcricket]

you are missing a key detail: he HAD been stopped before the officers killed him. for a libertarian, you seem to give (abusive) gov't authority a pass quite often!

I don't see the contradiction at all. I'm all for peoples rights as long as they don't infringe on another person's rights. I'm closer to Anarchist than Libertarian I would say. I've yet to meet a Libertarian who doesn't authorize the use of deadly force to stop bad guys, or owns a couple guns to protect their home and property from intruders. If I can shoot someone endangering my life, I don't have a problem with an officer shooting someone else endangering theirs or the general public. If anything, a car is a lethal object and should be treated as such when used in this manner.

Also, he had not stopped, he ran into the side of a house and WAS forced to stop by hitting an unmovable object. Just because his car wasn't moving any more doesn't imply cooperation on his part. If he pulled over on the side of the road we would be having a completely different conversation. We don't see the shooting portion so we don't know exactly what happened. But the parts we do see show him endangering the lives of the officers and public in general. 22 counts of robbery, driving recklessly through a neighborhood, and ramming police cars? It's dark and they don't know if he has a gun or not till after the fact. Shoot first and ask questions later.

What if he had crashed through that house wall and killed a couple children sleeping in their beds? What if someone was walking their dogs and he plowed them over? A car is a lethal weapon and should be treated as such. What if he had a gun after he stopped and started shooting officers? You weren't there and it's so easy to pass judgment after the fact. Those officers have a rough job and never know what kind of sick F#@%'s they are going to be dealing with. They get a split second to make a decision then have to live with it, or get killed in the process.

[hank moon]

i find the bloodlust in this forum to be appalling. cops can do no wrong unless - what? in every instance where cops experience some uncertainty about a potential threat (e.g. does that guy have a gun?), that uncertainty is erased through killing an often unarmed person. i think cops should be held to a higher standard than that. you guys don't. K.

peace

[Jaxx]

jaxx, in essence you are saying that the cops' bad behavior is justified by the criminal's - would you agree with that?

Absolutely not.

I am saying that he could have avoided it but instead put his life in another persons hands. The other person decided to shoot. Bad decision or not he put the officer in a place where the officer felt the need to have to decide.

Drugs allow people to do stupid things.

We need a couch quarterback smiley.

[jman]

i find the bloodlust in this forum to be appalling. cops can do no wrong unless - what? in every instance where cops experience some uncertainty about a potential threat (e.g. does that guy have a gun?), that uncertainty is erased through killing an often unarmed person. i think cops should be held to a higher standard than that. you guys don't. K.

peace

Did u hear the news about the homeowner in SLC with two little girls who shot and killed the 19yr old kid who was breaking into his house? Do you believe that the homeowner was justified in killing the guy in order to protect his family? Or do you believe he should be punished by a few years in prison? Or do you believe that he should get the death penalty for murdering a other person (since he didn't see that the criminal didn't have a weapon)??
Just curious...

Just another idea, one of my friends said that let's say you were this guy and gave the robber a warning shot or shot him in the leg. What if then the robber pulls a gun on you and kills you? So much for that. So my friend was saying to avoid the risk - always shoot to kill when protecting your family. And if you do, you are fully protected by the law in using deadly force. I just thought that was interesting perspective.

[asdf]

Drugs allow people to do stupid things.

I keep reading the story but cant seem to find where it says he was using drugs.


The cop could have just shut his mouth and been totally justified.

Payed his debt to society? I'm assuming he meant up until this incident....

When he's reporting he got rammed those 3 times, total BS. The cop needs a scolding for that one. But in the end, it's good that the taxpayers aren't buying this criminal anymore meals.

and what if that was your son or bother?

[Jaxx]

I keep reading the story but cant seem to find where it says he was using drugs.

It said on top of the 22 burglary, etc charges he was ordered to go to drug rehab. It also said he didn't go to rehab.

[asdf]

It said on top of the 22 burglary, etc charges he was ordered to go to drug rehab. It also said he didn't go to rehab.

so were just assuming his was a drug addict on a bender trying to scrpe up some cash to feed his habits ..oh ok

for conversations sake lets assume the cop was ordered to go to rehab one point in his life, would your opinion change then?


"22 burglaries" coming from KSL.com could very well mean he stole 22 pixie sticks when he was 15

[ilanimaka]

Unfortunately, you never "shoot to kill" or say you were lest you be brought up on charges for seeking to kill the perp. Instead, you shoot to stop. If, by chance, the perp also dies from being stopped, then you are still clear because you were trying to stop him, not kill him.

[Jaxx]

so were just assuming his was a drug addict on a bender trying to scrpe up some cash to feed his habits ..oh ok

I was ASSuming the 22 burglaries were most likely how he fed his habit. Seems a reasonable assumption.

Was he on drugs while in the chase. Don't know.

[jman]

Unfortunately, you never "shoot to kill" or say you were lest you be brought up on charges for seeking to kill the perp. Instead, you shoot to stop. If, by chance, the perp also dies from being stopped, then you are still clear because you were trying to stop him, not kill him.

To quote an attorney: "Utah's self-defense statute allows someone "to use deadly force to prevent the commission of a forcible felony; and burglary is a forcible felony. But...gun-toting homeowner[s] shouldn't go too far." He said, "Once that force against you has ceased, you have a responsibility to stop using force."

[asdf]

I was ASSuming the 22 burglaries were most likely how he fed his habit. Seems a reasonable assumption.
Was he on drugs while in the chase. Don't know.

so we could also ASSume that he was not on drugs and had been clean for years.. right?

[Jaxx]

so we could also ASSume that he was not on drugs and had been clean for years.. right?

You could. But I'm a pessimist. :haha:

[DiscGo]

This guy shouldn't have taken off from the cops like he did, but his death seems REALLY suspicious. The guy was shot in his car (with the glass up) for not having listened to the cops instructions after being stopped.

The raise a good point in the video with the question of how was he supposed to listen to you when the engines were on and his window was up.

[denaliguide]

i thought it was the cop, who was in the car with the window up, who did the shooting. he thought the window was down.

[DiscGo]

Regardless of who had their window down, it would have been nearly impossible for the other person to be heard.

[accadacca]

http://rlv.zcache.com/bad_cop_no_donut_police_humor_tshirt-p235904920645043005uh7s_400.jpg

[LOAH]

There's quite a bit wrong with this whole situation and on another forum, which Mr. Pennington was a member of, an acquaintance of his shed some light on what he saw in the full (not the news version) dash cam video. The video that I personally watched was a continuous, uncut version that lasted nearly 10 minutes, I believe (it's been a few weeks). That version was on the news link, but I couldn't find it, the last time I tried. Just an edited version from each car.

1. Yes, the guy had been in trouble before. The cops knew him.
2. The officers stated that they didn't know it was him they were chasing since it was his girlfriend's vehicle (Freeze, Wade, I'm going to shoot you *after shooting him already*)
3. The officer was told by dispatch not to chase, but to get a plate #. The report stated that the officers found the vehicle later, then gave chase. The full, unedited dash cam showed otherwise.
4. During the chase, all actions made by Pennington were purely evasive, not aggressive toward the officers.

examples:

When his forward path was blocked by a stop sign (turn was too tight), he backed up to get a better angle for escape and subsequently tapped a police cruiser at under 5mph, with the brake lights on (that means he was stopping - assumable that he was trying NOT to hit the approaching cruiser). After the *light* contact, the officer told dispatch that he was rammed.

A pit maneuver was later attempted unsuccessfully and the suspect vehicle swerved to recover. During this swerve, the officer rammed the vehicle again and proceeded to tell dispatch that "He just tried to take me out again", even though contact was initiated by the officer. (To anyone listening on the radio, this sounds like the use of deadly force.)

When the vehicle was finally stopped, it was due to two police vehicles guiding the SUV into the side of a house. This was clearly not where the suspect was trying to go. He was trying to evade police, not crash into a house or police cruisers.

Immediately after the SUV was stopped (that driver's side window was down, as shown earlier in the chase), the officer then (from inside the cruiser with the window up) yelled "Freeze or I'll shoot you! Freeze! *two shots fired, breaking window in cruiser* Freeze, Wade, I'm going to shoot you!"

The suspect never had time to get out of the vehicle, he was already getting shot. Apparently, the officers even tried to get him out of the vehicle after shooting him and gave up when his ankle got stuck in the steering wheel (is that tampering?).

If you listen really closely, you can hear Wade saying, "I can't believe you shot me" while he was bleeding out.

Having to listen to the officer taunt him while bleeding to death was just icing on the cake for him.

_____

I'm not saying he was someone I'd want to hang out with, but I can plainly see that he was only trying to run. Yes, that's illegal, but it's not worth being gang-banged by the badge. Apparently, he'd had success at fleeing from police in the past.

The whole thing stinks of recklessness on the police's part, the way they chased when told not to, exaggerated details over the radio, used their vehicles to ram him into a home, shot him while seated, through a closed window, without any believable effort to subdue him, then taunted him while he lay dying. It was clear to me that he had no intention of using his vehicle as a weapon at any time.

...Not to mention the investigation was handled by other members of the "brotherhood" that police officers tend to be a part of.

_______

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a cop hater. I'm a resident of Orem and have always been treated respectfully and hold a high regard for the police organization here and police officers, in general. There have been plenty of run-ins over my 25yr history here and even when they (Orem) had something on me, they treated me as someone they were sworn to protect. They have won my trust and I make it a point to thank them for their service, when the opportunity presents itself.

I understand that they're at serious risk while carrying out their duties and their perception will be different than that of an ordinary citizen. I'm also all for it when they are justified in taking a dirtbag out of the gene pool. When they're justified.

I strongly feel like the shooting officer was (obviously) in the wrong and getting off without so much as a reprimand is an atrocity. I won't say what I feel should have happened to him, but I will say that I believe he wanted to kill Wade Pennington and got his wish. That be some dirty coppin.:angryfire:

Like I said, this Pennington guy wasn't a productive member of society at all, but we don't live in a country where it's okay to kill assholes for running.

Oh yeah, no weapons of any kind or burglary tools were found in the vehicle.

Sorry to revive this thread, but I just read through it and it seems as though most of you could use a little more insight, as shared on another forum, by someone much closer to the situation than a link from KSL.

[Udink]

4. During the chase, all actions made by Pennington were purely evasive, not aggressive toward the officers.
I totally agree with what you said, LOAH, especially this part. Using the logic of the officer(s) (and those who investigated and found no wrongdoing by the officer(s)), they could at any time swerve in front of a suspect being pursued in order to initiate contact, then shoot the suspect dead and call it "justified." Not right in my book.

[Sombeech]

so were just assuming his was a drug addict on a bender trying to scrpe up some cash to feed his habits ..oh ok

We were also assuming that because he was running from the cops, he was breaking the law :roflol:

I've assumed that certain days have been Saturday because the former was Friday, hence I could stay home from work. Most of the time I have been right.

inb4 you just don't get it

[asdf]

We were also assuming that because he was running from the cops, he was breaking the law :roflol:

or maybe he knew these cops had it out for him so he ran.... definitely plausible :2thumbs



inb4 you just don't get it

you dont get it, but you think you do hence the problem