Don't Touch My Junk - TSA going too far?

[Sombeech]

Summary of what happened:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrSr3xOA23s&NR=1&feature=fvwp

The guy opts out of the full body scan just like we can each legally do, and then is told he'll have a pat down where the guard would be touching his groin. The man says "If you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested". This didn't go too well with TSA.


Full incident:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqM56e-kRA&feature=related

[Sombeech]

November 24 is National Opt Out Day. Anybody flying then? :haha:

[Deathcricket]

Don't worry bro. Ron Paul is on the case.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/70061.html#more-70061
[QUOTE]November 17, 2010

[B] [URL="http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/70061.html"]Ron Paul

[Iceaxe]

This has gone much to far..... I'm willing to accept some risk of an attack in order to retain my rights and freedom.....

Freedom is never free..... :flag:

[jman]

This has gone much to far..... I'm willing to accept some risk of an attack in order to retain my rights and freedom.....

Freedom is never free..... :flag:

Hmmmmmm....your statement is very interesting....I need to think about this for awhile. I guess I rather need to ponder the "at what cost or price should we make for security/safety".

[denaliguide]

i'd be tempted just opt out of the scan and the pat down and drop my trousers right there in line and let everyone take a look. that would probably scare enough of them to drop the policy.

i'll gladly give up some security to maintain my rights.

[Sombeech]

drop my trousers right there in line and let everyone take a look.

This might be considered terrorism from inside the airport.

[denaliguide]

This might be considered terrorism from inside the airport.

yea, i'm sure it would cause some to lose sleep.

[Cirrus2000]

Drives me freakin' nuts.

Here's what I said about it a couple of years ago:





I went to France in 2000. On the plane with me I had a canyoneering knife, a regular-sized tube of toothpaste from home, nail cutters, a cigarette lighter, and so on. Coming back I brought several bottles of wine (carry-on, naturally) and a bottle of Chartreuse I'd gotten at the monastery. Those were the days...

hank

p.s. And, I wore all my clothes through security.
We (sorry, you Americans) have to decide where the balance will be between personal freedoms and security. (Then we Canadians will follow your lead.)

Like Hank, I used to carry lots of very handy things in my carry-on. And I didn't have to be at the airport at least 2 hours early for an international flight.

One of the nicest things about my job is the camaraderie with pilots - I'd often have the chance to sit in the cockpit during take-off or landing, or at least spend a little time talking with the pilots en route. In fact we got biannual familiarization flights, in the cockpit the whole way, each way. Led to better understanding between controllers and pilots. Gone now.

Personally, I'm willing to run the risk of being on the exceedingly rare airplane that is hijacked, if it permits me to travel the way I used to.

There are about 28000 commercial flights per day in the US. Prior to 9/11, how many were hijacked daily?

I wish I knew - it's tough to find numbers. One spot I looked said that approximately 22 aircraft were hijacked per year worldwide, with about 100 fatalities annually on average (from 1947 to 2001). According to Boeing, in 2000, the world's commercial jet airlines carried approximately 1.09 billion people on 18 million flights. So we're talking a one in 11 million chance of being one of those fatalities each time you get on a plane.

Do you think that number would change significantly - upwards - after 9/11?

Sure, take a swab of my laptop case, x-ray everything, whatever. But give me a break - if someone's desperate enough to get some liquid through security, do you think that this HUGE bureaucracy is going to stop them? (And have you seen the size of the TSA? Any idea what it costs? Have you seen them swagger?) A small plastic container full of liquid in one's pocket will not be caught - all one would have to do is look innocent while walking through the metal detector.

Here is a quote from their website:


TSA Week at a Glance (March 16 - March 22, 2009)
14 passengers were arrested after investigations of suspicious behavior or fraudulent travel documents
34 firearms found at checkpoints
6 artfully concealed prohibited items found at checkpoints

How many of those arrested were a hazard to their respective flights? How many of those firearms were intended for nefarious purposes? How many "artfully concealed prohibited items" do you think were not found? Over the course of 196000 flights? I might have artfully concealed items, myself, for the convenience of having them with me when I landed. Hell, I've "un-artfully" carried knives through at least twice (accidentally) and not been called on it.

Is this worth the cost? Monetarily and in inconvenience? And that inconvenience factor carries a huge cost as well, for those traveling for a company, etc. etc.

Bah....

[Deathcricket]

Whoa! This is going to be the first time Cirrus and I agree on a subject. I shall mark the occasion and open a box of wine in his honor. :clap::clap::clap:

[denaliguide]

Whoa! I shall mark the occasion and open a box of wine in his honor. :clap::clap::clap:


that's what i call going all out. :roflol:

[asdf]

Awesome post Kev

TSA is nothing but another way for our government to waste money by the boat load all in the name of the war on terror.

[Sombeech]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/112010/1289908476_tsa-female-frsisking.gif

[jman]

So those who reject the idea of the TSA or security handling...

How would you like to see it changed or done?

[Iceaxe]

So those who reject the idea of the TSA or security handling...

How would you like to see it changed or done?

You are missing the point.... I don't want it changed or done.... I want it eliminated, I want my rights and freedom restored and I'll accept the risks.....

If what is going on is not an illegal search of the innocent I don't know what is.... I want my government to protect my right to privacy is what I want...

The new TSA measures recently enacted clearly violate the right of U.S. citizens, guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment, to protection from unreasonable searches. Mo McGowan, a former high-ranking TSA official recently admitted on Fox News that they do in fact violate Fourth Amendment rights. TSA then compounds the issue should you attempt to refuse both the scan and the pat-down, by preventing you from leaving the security area and arresting you if you continue to refuse. Their logic for this is that anyone who would refuse to be checked at the time it’s about to happen is automatically even more suspect.... yet another case where the government operates under the fallacy that privacy is only desired by those with something nefarious to hide.

An example of how airport security should be handled is Israel, a country that has been dealing with terrorist threats on airplanes much longer than the U.S., and certainly is more likely to encounter one on any given day. Israel doesn’t use full-body scans or pat-downs, they evaluate the people, not the stuff people are carrying. They scan bags and use metal detectors, of course, but mostly they use "soft" techniques, and they are extremely effective and quick.

[denaliguide]

So those who reject the idea of the TSA or security handling...

How would you like to see it changed or done?

like the israeli's do it. profile.

edit: damn, ice beat me to it.

[Iceaxe]

39311

[canyonphile]

like the israeli's do it. profile.

edit: damn, ice beat me to it.

Totally agreed. The post 9/11 security procedures are what I have always called "feel-good, do-nothing". I do not feel safer because some clown wearing a uniform and badge makes everyone take off their shoes, and pulls random people (usually some old lady with a walker) out for a closer shakedown. I don't feel safer because no one can bring even an UNOPENED BOTTLE OF WATER onto the plane. The measures are completely irrational, based not on fact or logic, but dreamed up by someone(s) who has a complete hard-on for power trips over others. I have never enjoyed flying, but now I detest it because of these lame-assed measures. I also wonder at what point every single passenger getting on an airplane is now viewed with suspicion as a possible terror suspect? WTF, man?:angryfire:

The bottom line is that if some terrorist whackjob is bound and determined to die for their cause, nothing will stop them. They could shove a bunch of C4 up their ass, or swallow something, and take down a plane that way.

I'm with Kevin, Ice, and you, Denali: let me get on the damn friggin' plane, just like I used to 10 years ago. I'll take my chances that the plane won't get blown up by someone. And by God, if by chance someone is on my plane and starts yelling "ALLAH AKBAR!", while brandishing some weapon or threat to take it down, I'll go down doing whatever I could to stop the SOB...along with the rest of the passengers, I'm sure.

Life is not safe, and I don't appreciate people trying to sanitize it for me. I don't need or want "the government" trying to limit my freedoms under the guise of trying to "protect" me. Whether it's the NPS thinking of shutting down Angel's Landing because more than a few people have fallen to their deaths, or telling me I can't smoke pot [which I don't do anyway], it's intrusive and pointless.

If I were flying on Nov 24, I'd definitely "opt out". TSA: :flipa:

[jman]

Btw Shane - not missing any point. Just theorizing.

Thanks for sharing. I will add, that something worse than poor security - is a false sense of security.


Israel doesn’t use full-body scans or pat-downs, they evaluate the people, not the stuff people are carrying. . So does this suggest, or imply that you condone profiling/labeling/prejudice/judging? Isn't that why Arizona's immigration law was so infuriating to so many people? Because, the darker-colored people couldn't walk down the street without being harassed by police officers thinking that they might be illegals?

[jman]

TSA then compounds the issue should you attempt to refuse both the scan and the pat-down, by preventing you from leaving the security area and arresting you if you continue to refuse. Their logic for this is that anyone who would refuse to be checked at the time it’s about to happen is automatically even more suspect....

To be corrected - the reason behind that is so "terrorists" can not test the security for weaknesses.

[jman]

Nm...

[denaliguide]

I will add, that something worse than poor security - is a false sense of security.

which is exactly what we are getting now. to think a determined terrorist could not get something on a plane is wishful thinking.


So does this suggest, or imply that you condone profiling/labeling/prejudice/judging? Isn't that why Arizona's immigration law was so infuriating to so many people? Because, the darker-colored people couldn't walk down the street without being harassed by police officers thinking that they might be illegals?

i not only suggest and imply, i condone profiling. for example: if you were driving down east colfax in denver and saw lots of scantily clad women standing on the corners would you think that maybe they were just out for a walk, or would you profile them and come up with "their hookers"? or, you see a 7ft tall black man driving a flash car, and immediately you think "he obviously plays pro hockey"?

i also don't have any problem at all with arizona's immigration law. wouldn't you be suspicious of 15 hispanics hanging out in front of home depot? and people can't just be harassed for walking down the street. the police can only inquire about immigration status if it is in direct relation to a lawful contact (getting pulled over for an offense or arrested).

[Iceaxe]

Honestly.... the most effective and cheapest security would probably be to just hand everyone a big knife that wants one when they board the plane....

Pick a big knife up from the bin when you board the plane and drop it in the bin as you exit.... problem solved.... We'll call it the Swiss Approach... care to guess when the Swiss were last invaded?

[denaliguide]

ice, once again we are on the same wave length. my ex wife could tell you that i had this idea years ago. only i suggested guns. that doesn't mean that they all would have been loaded but just the thought that some might be.

it's incredible how great minds think alike. :hail2thechief::hail2thechief:


my other crazy though, was that i should just carry a bomb on board. i mean what are the odds of there being two bombs on the same plane?

[Cirrus2000]

my other crazy though, was that i should just carry a bomb on board. i mean what are the odds of there being two bombs on the same plane?

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

[trackrunner]

relevant video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRpWnK6Rg3E

[Iceaxe]

What are the odds of two guys with cucumbers being on the same plane. :haha:

[Sombeech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4&feature=player_embedded

Description on the video...

Lets get the facts straight first. Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and didn't set it off but was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn't complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn't end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn't hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins.

******* THIS VIDEO OCCURRED AT SALT LAKE CITY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT ON NOVEMBER 19TH AT AROUND THE TIME OF 12:00 PM **********

***Insertion of what happened after the video (full story)****

After I finished videotaping the incident I went through the check point myself. I collected my things and went over to talk to the father and son. Before I could get to them a man in a black suit who had been talking with the other TSA officials approached me. He asked to speak to me and I obliged, wondering what was to come. He then proceeded to interrogate me about why I was videotaping the "procedures of the TSA". I told him that I had never seen such practices before on a young child and decided to record it. The man being frustrated at this point demanded to know my plans with the video, of which I didn't respond. Repeatedly he asked me to delete the video, hoping his mere presence could intimidate me to obey, but I refused. By this point it became obvious that he felt TSA had done something wrong and that I caught it on tape. After the interview, I left for my gate. I called my brother who told me I should put the tape on YouTube because this had been a recent hot topic in the news.
My gate was a long way off, but about 15 minutes after arriving 2 TSA agents came and sat 15 feet or so away from me. I stood up and moved so that they were in front of me and then took a picture. A 3rd and then a 4th agent came and sat down with the others. They would occasionally glance at me and talk on their walkie-talkies. I don't know why they were there or if it was a huge coincidence but they stayed for 30-45 minutes and left just before I boarded the plan. Interesting to say the least, intimidating? Maybe a little...

[Sombeech]

^^^ Absolutely shameful. Can you imagine how scared that 8 year old boy was?

[Iceaxe]

TSA Company car.........

39372

[Iceaxe]

http://www.moonbattery.com/TSA.jpg

[Iceaxe]

This is hilarious.... now the Japanese are making fun of TSA....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejq--eIJkgE

[Pelon1]

Don at the Airport in a speedo? (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=13397463)

[accadacca]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/194728/saturday-night-live-message-from-tsa

[Sombeech]

Don at the Airport in a speedo? (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=13397463)


:haha:

13397463

[Dr. Nebz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZM4Bpt3xZU

[Iceaxe]

Year to date statistics on Airport screening from the Department of Homeland Security



Terrorist Plots Discovered 0

Transvestites 133

Hernias 1,485

Hemorrhoid Cases 3,172

Enlarged Prostates 8,249

Breast Implants 59,350

Natural Blondes 3

[Pelon1]

Went through the SD airport on Tuesday, I asked if the "Don't touch my junk" agent was working as I wanted to get a picture with him :twisted: They didn't give him up??

[Iceaxe]

I'm wearing this bad boy on my next trip to the airport. :2thumbs:

http://c0573862.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/1/2/67190/799609/C%20SCAN%20T-SHIRT.gif

http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

[bowjunkie]

:2thumbs:

[Cirrus2000]

That's pretty sweet. I wonder how well it shows up in practice? I'd consider getting one, if it weren't for that fact it's not a "Section Eight of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms" shirt... :haha:

[Sombeech]

http://vimeo.com/17681336

[StudChild]

:lol8::2thumbs:

[Sombeech]

Woman Allegedly Prevented From Boarding Flight Because TSA Didn’t Like Her ‘Attitude’

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/woman-allegedly-prevented-from-boarding-flight-because-tsa-didnt-like-her-attitude/

An angry airline passenger claims the Transportation Security Administration prevented her from boarding her flight not because she was a security risk, but in retaliation for her “attitude.”
She explained (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEii7dQUpy8&feature=player_embedded) in the description of an accompanying YouTube video:

This was inside the terminal at the Houston airport. I was not allowed to board a plane (even though I had already been through airport security) because I drank my water instead of letting the TSA “test” it.
She added:

The TSA agent finally admitted that it wasn’t because they thought I was a security risk-it was because the TSA agent, Louis Godeaux, was mad at me!
Here is the clip, apparently shot with a cell phone:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gEii7dQUpy8&safety _mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active

The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/09/tsa-keeps-woman-off-flight-as-retaliation_n_1868410.html) has a rough transcript:

Woman: “Do you think that I am honestly a threat…?”
Male agent: “No, no, no, but with your attitude…”
Woman: “Let me get this straight. This is retaliatory for my attitude. This is not making the airways safer. It’s retaliatory.”
Male agent: “Pretty much…yes.”
Woman: “Is that legal?”
It should be noted that the clip does not show the initial altercation, which could have involved more than just drinking water after going through security.
However, the woman admits the situation ended well.
“I was able to get on the very next flight out of [Houston, and] even managed an upgrade! (thanks United),” she wrote.
The passenger concluded: “I know this is not really news (it seems like the TSA is retaliating all the time against people), but it was a little satisfying to get that statement on video.”