On Being a Canyon Leader

[ratagonia]

No, not talking about a certain, formal program.

Had a bit of a tiff last trip with an experienced, competent canyoneer about
what is involved in being a "canyon leader" - ie, someone who can lead us down
an obscure, un-bolted, pristine wilderness canyon.

What does it take?

GEAR at a minimum: it seems to me that a canyon leader would need to have on the
harness when rappelling: A Knife, a rope-ascending 'kit' (mine is 2 Tiblocs, 3
over-the-shoulder slings, 2 Attache biners); and in the pack or on the person:
webbing for anchors and rings for anchors, appropriate to the canyon. Maybe all
of us, but definitely for those who are not the heaviest person in their group
would also want to carry a double-length spectra sling. Probably 2 free biners
on top of everything else you are carrying.

SKILLS at a minimum: stop on rappel, convert to ascend, back to descend. Set up
hauling system. Build strong anchor 40 different ways! Have made enough
mistakes to know how to avoid making most of the obvious mistakes... Good
enough soft skills to not piss people off - though it has never stopped me!!!

Comments? Discussion?? Everyone who leads canyons have these skills??

Tom :moses:

[goofball]

someone who can lead us down
an obscure, un-bolted, pristine wilderness canyon.


what exactly does this mean ? none of those things quantify any difficulties to be encountered. At one time every canyon out there fit those criteria, even what may now be considered the most beginner friendly. do you mean no beta ? if not, and beta is readily at hand and were talking of people w/ canyon skills, then making sure everyone has all the info they need to determine if they are confident and competent enough for the route is all that is needed. then there is really no need for a “leader”, unless someone is looking for an ego boost from such a silly title. why not just a group of like minded people, all competent for the task, out to enjoy the experience w/out having to conform to some creepy hierarchy ? also where, physically, they are going in case the worst happens and someone is forced into the role of rescuer. I wouldn’t want to perish in a slot because I didn’t tell everyone where they were and go over maps. Although I am not near as conscientious w/ this anymore and need to be. It matters. The skills you listed are good to have no matter what. The more one knows the better equipped they are for more eventualities, especially the unpleasant ones. And gear appropriate to the canyon as well as emergency situations. totally agree w/ your list of gear on harness/person when on rope.

Or are you talking about taking unskilled or unsure individuals who may need the guidance of greater experience ? even then I would not use the term “canyon leader”, but that is just my personality. It has also been quite a few years since I practiced skills regularly on the bluffs in bluff and would not want to “lead” anyone who needs the benefit of more competent company. I think if these are the people you are talking about then much greater competence is needed as your then taking on the responsibility of others safety. Also sound judgement as to what is appropriate for them. Its scary at first to trust that rope and to move down a canyon.

and if you are talking about a blind descent, only the most... "adventurous" care for such things anyway. and if going (w/ a partner(s), now !) they better be comfortable w/ said partner or else they may be in for a surprise.

[Gambel Oak]

The gear and hard skills go without saying. One of the qualities I think a good leader has whether canyons, hiking, climbing...etc., is the ability to lead from the rear. By that I mean let the group make decisions and problem solve with subtle guidance. As long as the decisions aren't placing anyone in the group in danger let them work their way through it. That is how people learn. You are still the person in charge without being the front man. Your subtle guidance will not go unnoticed. When it becomes crunch time and the group needs a person in charge they will look to you. Then you hand out orders and or turn over the reigns to someone better suited for that type of situation.

Assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the people in your group.

[jman]

A similar thread (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?37787-Canyon-Leader-Responsibility&highlight=leader) was brought up 11-months ago by DWayne27. It has lots of detailed examples. Unless, Tom wants to have a refresher thread??

[Bo_Beck]

By that I mean let the group make decisions and problem solve with subtle guidance. That is how people learn. Your subtle guidance will not go unnoticed. When it becomes crunch time and the group needs a person in charge they will look to you. Then you hand out orders and or turn over the reigns to someone better suited for that type of situation.

Assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the people in your group.

And visa/versa....they assess your strengths and weeknesses. Having spent 4 years teaching and "guiding" survival principals and techniques during my stint as a "Survival Instructor" in the USAF back in the mid 70's, the value that was acheived by the "students" came with "hands-on" experiences. Feeling the real situation gave them the real experience. The more positive feedback that I was able to give, created a more positive experience for them. Discomfort was also part of the experience. Let 'em' feel that too! Ok.....canyoneering is totally positive and cushy and comfortable. Dang...lets make sure that our "students" are always comfy and cozy. We as the "leaders can be the only ones that feel stress, discomfort and nausea?! My point?.... Activities no matter what come at a price....no matter what, let everyone pitch in. It's about the whole experience, or let's all go to Disneyland.

[Iceaxe]

I don't see commonsense anywhere on your leadership list? I believe that is the #1 skill required of a good leader.

Not wanting to point any fingers.... but there are a couple of people who are always placing themselves in leadership roles in the canyoneering community that really have no business doing it because they lack commonsense..... or at least they lack my definition of commonsense.

To me a good leader only needs to have commonsense and good management skills. A leader doesn't need the skills to stop on rappel, convert to ascend, back to descend, set up hauling system.... what a good leader needs is the commonsense to know where they are lacking in skills and the ability to assemble a strong team that has all the required skills....

Maybe a good analogy would be the coach of a sports team..... the coach doesn't have to actually be able to throw a 50-yard touchdown pass or drain a 3-pointer at the buzzer.... he just needs the commonsense and management skills to assemble a strong team that can work together and do those things.

YMMV

[Brian in SLC]

ITo me a good leader only needs to have commonsense and good management skills. A leader doesn't need the skills to stop on rappel, convert to ascend, back to descend, set up hauling system.... what a good leader needs is the commonsense to know where they are lacking in skills and the ability to assemble a strong team that has all the required skills....

Can be a big difference in folks with good leadership skills, and, those on the pointy end of the stick...

Leadership v leading. Sometimes similars skills, sometimes not.

"Canyon leader". I've always found the term mildly amusing.

Maybe what Tom wants to know, is, does a "canyon leader" need to have the skills and equipment on their person as if they are soloing a canyon? And everyone else is just along to stand back and be critical? Ha ha.

[ratagonia]

A similar thread (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?37787-Canyon-Leader-Responsibility&highlight=leader) was brought up 11-months ago by DWayne27. It has lots of detailed examples. Unless, Tom wants to have a refresher thread??

Refresher thread, yes. Good to discuss these kinda things once a year or so. And from that thread, I learn that Jman is a strong addition to almost any team! You comin' to Freezefest?

Shane: Common Sense is in my walking-around-all-the-time package, though not always utilized.

Yes, I am a technocrat. I would feel naked in a canyon, not having the skills and tools I listed. It is hard for me not to look askance at people who "lead" people into the wild lands without these skills and tools at hand.

Tom

[Cirrus2000]

I find that the horseshoes weigh down my pack, but I'm not about to let anyone else carry them, or leave them behind. Everyone gets a rabbit's foot, though, passed around at the trailhead.

[denaliguide]

39258

[Don]

Les, man, I really don't think Deadpool is the guy to use for an example of common sense. He's mentally unstable and abuses his healing-factor super-power more than wolverine. (Meaning, if he makes a death-inducing mistake in a gun fight or a slot canyon he will just recover; not the guy to follow into either situation!)







...Oh man, my geek is showing isn't it?

[Cirrus2000]

http://www.mricons.com/store/png/124195_43200_48_education_geek_nerd_teacher_icon.p ng :haha:

[mrbrejcha]

You comin' to Freezefest
Tom

Oh man; it's gunna be epic. I'm stoked already :).

..I'll go back to lurking now.

[Don]

Oh man; it's gunna be epic. I'm stoked already :).

..I'll go back to lurking now.

:haha: