Rappel Rack

[FOX]

Any of you monkies out there ever used one of these before?39025

I'm assuming Tom has. It's the Petzl D11 Rappel Rack.

I was in Iceland a few weeks ago on an expedition for work which involved descending into a dormant volcano. The rappel was 400 feet, all free hanging. The guys who were supervising the descent were all mountaineers and cavers, some of them had done Everest and they all swore by this thing. Apparently these racks have been around for awhile and are big in the caving world. Watching the way it distributed weight and controlled friction was very cool. A completely different experience from what I'm used to. I want to try it out in some of our big drop routes. So if anyone has used one before, chime in and let me know what you thought of it.

[canyoncaver]

Hi,

I have used racks quite a bit. Mostly caving, but also in canyons. My canyon crew is made up of a bunch of cavers and we all use racks. I don't particularly like the petzl rack that you pictured, preferring stainless steel like this one for caving: (see below)

For canyoneering, we have found that the BMS microrack is a great descender. It is small compared to the big racks, steel for durability, and handles 9 and 8mm rope very well. We usually rig SRT, but the frame of the micro is wide enough to double 9mm when needed. We know that we are seen as weirdos by canyoneers for using this equipment, but we don't care. We have tried the eights, piranas, totems, etc. All of these devices are inferior to the micro rack in my opinion.

Please forgive me, I am a newbie at using the photo attachment thing here on Bogley. The rack on the far left is a steel full-sized (12 inch) 6-bar rack made by SMC. It is great for drops up to about 1000 feet, but large and heavy for canyon purposes. The black-background photo shows four versions of BMS micro-rack. I use the second from the left with the two hyperbars. It is about 7 inches long.

[moab mark]

Which one of those is a micro rack?

[jman]

Hi,

I have used racks quite a bit. Mostly caving, but also in canyons. My canyon crew is made up of a bunch of cavers and we all use racks. I don't particularly like the petzl rack that you pictured, preferring stainless steel like this one for caving:

For canyoneering, we have found that the BMS microrack is a great descender. It is small compared to the big racks, steel for durability, and handles 9 and 8mm rope very well. We usually rig SRT, but the frame of the micro is wide enough to double 9mm when needed. We know that we are seen as weirdos by canyoneers for using this equipment, but we don't care. We have tried the eights, piranas, totems, etc. All of these devices are inferior to the micro rack in my opinion.

X2. I once tested a microrack on heaps (last two rappells) and I was instantly sold on it. For long free rappels, it's a great device.

If my memory serves me correctly, the longest free rappel (in 45seconds mind you), was done on a microrack. There is video of it on YouTube. It's over some bridge in the east I think.

It adds to weight, and will only use it on long free rappels. Heaps (300ft) comes to mind, and dragon canyon (290ft) in Arizona are where I would definitely use one again.

Oh....my friend Jeff G, used one when he dropped into the "bottomless pit" near eureka (almost 600ft free-rap if I recall correctly).

[moab mark]

http://bmsrescue.com/micrack.html

[FOX]

For canyoneering, we have found that the BMS microrack is a great descender. It is small compared to the big racks, steel for durability, and handles 9 and 8mm rope very well. We usually rig SRT, but the frame of the micro is wide enough to double 9mm when needed. We know that we are seen as weirdos by canyoneers for using this equipment, but we don't care. We have tried the eights, piranas, totems, etc. All of these devices are inferior to the micro rack in my opinion.

That's kind of the way I feel about it. It was awesome on that long freehang. I'll need to check out the micro as the petzl was pretty big and heavy although they were using 11mm rope. What is the weight for the micros? Do you ever find them unwieldy for setup in awkward starts, etc.?

[hank moon]

If my memory serves me correctly, the longest free rappel (in 45seconds mind you), was done on a microrack. There is video of it on YouTube. It's over some bridge in the east I think.


IF you are thinking of the longest free rappel done from a specific bridge in 45 sec, then ok, your memory is working. Otherwise, many longer free raps have been done. Heck, even Golondrinas is longer than that bridge rap!

Anyways, racks. They're great for ez control on long raps. The Petzl rack has some cool features (2 fixed bars + 1 notchless) but suffers from aluminum bars (SS is the gold standard), hefty weight, and too many bars for its length. Not recommended for canyoneering. BMS micros are the way to go for (relatively) lightweight racks. My Ti frame, thin-wall SS bar BMS micro is a prized possession! Brag, brag... :roll:

Note however that BMS micros are set up for SRT and do not work well on double ropes.

[jman]

IF you are thinking of the longest free rappel done from a specific bridge in 45 sec, then ok, your memory is working. Otherwise, many longer free raps have been done. Heck, even Golondrinas is longer than that bridge rap!

Yes, I remember now. Bridge Day in Cincinnati. It's up to 850 feet. Golondrinas (just barely googled it) = 1092ft...give or take. Geez... Hate to jumar up that!!

btw, just noticed your hidden signature. nice!

[canyoncaver]

Mark, the four on the right are the microracks. The one on the left is much bigger, despite how it looks in my post.


Note however that BMS micros are set up for SRT and do not work well on double ropes.

I respectfully disagree with this. The micro works well on double ropes up to 9mm in diameter. Like I said, we rig SRT, so mostly we are on single strand. But occasionally the last guy will go double to avoid a sticky carabiner or eight pull. We have had no trouble doing this with the micros. I was surprised to find that you can even use the hyperbar with double rope. It may not be what BMS intended, but it works.

[Bo_Beck]

I currently have and use an HB Micro Rack with hollow stainless brake bars and twin friction/tie-off pins. Since HB was absolved numerous years ago this device is no longer available. When this device finally wears out (reasonably soon) I will purchase the CMI Hyper Rack Extreme. The down side to this model are the ano-alu bars. The good thing is that if needed (rarely) the wide body will accomodate 2-11mm ropes side by side unlike the BMS Micro. Take a look at the link to see the CMI.
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/descenders/MRACK.asp


P.S.- I have rappeled lots of times from 400' to 900' on the HB device and feel very controlled and secure. Also it has been used in many lowers from 300' to 900' with up to 3.6KN loads. I have to admit though, after using the Parks new MPD's yesterday at training I think I have found a device I like better than the Rack with Bars for lowers and raises!
http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?dept_id=20660

[canyoncaver]

Fox,

The micro that I use is 447 grams. The petzl that you used is 470. So not a huge difference there. The micro is a little smaller, and the steel bars will last much, much longer. When you wear out the bars on one side, you can flip them around in different positions to extend life. I have had my current bars for seven years, with hard use on them for the last two years. The frame is virtually indestructible, so you just buy new bars when they wear out.

I have not noticed any trouble with awkward starts, you just have to make sure and not torque the rack on an undercut lip. This takes a bit of technique. It is not a big deal for us coming from the caving world. In caves, we often use full-size racks which are 14' long and weigh 685 grams. So the micros are not much trouble in comparison. I can see how someone coming from the climbing or canyon world would see the micro racks as big and heavy compared to an ATC, but they are really not that bad. I clip the end of mine over to a carabiner on a gear loop between drops to keep it from banging around in sensitive areas.

[hank moon]

I respectfully disagree with this. The micro works well on double ropes up to 9mm in diameter. Like I said, we rig SRT, so mostly we are on single strand. But occasionally the last guy will go double to avoid a sticky carabiner or eight pull. We have had no trouble doing this with the micros. I was surprised to find that you can even use the hyperbar with double rope. It may not be what BMS intended, but it works.

Fair enough - let me amend to say that they don't work well w/double ropes while avoiding frame rub, which I abhor (esp. on me Ti frame). And I don't like rapping on double in general, less so on racks. Personal bias alert!

[FOX]

Thanks canyoncaver! I'm going to look into the micros and get one. Like I said before, I loved the control. I'm a bit surprised that in all the years I've been doing canyons I've never come across one and no one's ever talked about them. Now Hank and Bo are chiming in along with you and the others and it seems like everyone has one:lol8:. They seem like a much better way to approach long free hanging raps. I'm a bigger guy, not a skinny little canyon bitch, and the friction control the rack offered me was amazing. You guys rock! Thanks for the input:2thumbs:

[hank moon]

Hey Fox, check out the BMS racks - they are the best micros available and suitable for any standard rope but fat doubles (if you can tolerate frame rub - yechh). :)

http://bmsrescue.com/micrack.html

Bo, BMS also makes wider racks for yer fat double needs:

http://bmsrescue.com/resrack.html

CMI racks are cerainly OK, but essentially copies of the BMS originals, and with those nasty AL bars - how gauche. Please support BMS' innovation if you can afford it.

[canyoncaver]

Fair enough - let me amend to say that they don't work well w/double ropes while avoiding frame rub, which I abhor (esp. on me Ti frame). And I don't like rapping on double in general, less so on racks. Personal bias alert!

Agreed. There is some frame rub when doubling the 9mm. I also do not really like rapping double rope. I see it only as a necessary evil on difficult pulls.

Since starting to use the micro-rack for canyons about two years ago, I have used it to rap double maybe about 10 times. It just doesn't come up for us very often. So far, there is no noticeable frame wear. Definitely something to keep an eye on though. I would not recommend the micro-rack for anyone that primarily raps double strand. Definitely an SRT device.

[hank moon]

p.s. Karst Sports will have a 20% off sale on BMS products, 11/15. I think it is just for one day.

Rack up!

http://www.karstsports.com/33100.html

[Brian in SLC]

I have to admit though, after using the Parks new MPD's yesterday at training I think I have found a device I like better than the Rack with Bars for lowers and raises!
http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?dept_id=20660

Whoa, that's a cool lookin' device. Big pulley wheel? My bet is its pretty darn efficient. Rock Exotica makes some nifty stuff. Be great to see something like that for the recreational user that would be functional with 8mm to 10mm ropes. Talk about replacing a Gri Gri on a wall. Wow. Wonder how it'd be for solo climbing... How well does the rope feed through? Does it travel up and down a rope easily (ie, like an USHBA basic, or, more like a Gri Gri)? I've always thought if you replaced the cam on the Gri Gri with a big pulley wheel...

I have a CMI firefly that I modified by cutting a notch in one of the bars so I can be installed on a rope much easier. Aluminum bars, though, and, would groove out pretty soon, methinks. Only used it a few times, but, I can see the appeal in a rack, for sure. One that size with a hyperbar and steel bars would be uber sweet.

Cheers!

-Brian in SLC

[Bo_Beck]

Whoa, that's a cool lookin' device. Big pulley wheel? My bet is its pretty darn efficient. Rock Exotica makes some nifty stuff. Be great to see something like that for the recreational user that would be functional with 8mm to 10mm ropes. Talk about replacing a Gri Gri on a wall. Wow. Wonder how it'd be for solo climbing... How well does the rope feed through? Does it travel up and down a rope easily (ie, like an USHBA basic, or, more like a Gri Gri)? I've always thought if you replaced the cam on the Gri Gri with a big pulley wheel...
-Brian in SLC

It is a dang cool device Brian, but it was designed as a rescue tool for now. It's fairly large and heavy, but then I'm sure that a "mini" model could be produced? At a retail of $550, I would think that a mini would only be $300 or so:haha:. The bearings in the uni-direction pulley alone "cost" $100. Dang good bearings! As far as the rope pulling through? Well....it takes practice to do a "hand tight belay". It's a hands on procedure, therefore wouldn't work like a Silent Partner. On a belay it's important to keep the rope lifted off the sheave. Once the rope sits in the notch of the sheave and the device senses motion it locks up much like the camming action of a Gri Gri. It would be very efficient as a wall hauler though, but once again way to heavy and bulky. The MPD isn't designed to move up and down a rope; it's designed to replace an anchor pulley, progress capture ratchet, and lowering device such as a Rack with brake bars, Petzl ID, etc.


I have a CMI firefly that I modified by cutting a notch in one of the bars so I can be installed on a rope much easier. Aluminum bars, though, and, would groove out pretty soon, methinks. Only used it a few times, but, I can see the appeal in a rack, for sure. One that size with a hyperbar and steel bars would be uber sweet.
Love my HB Mini and will buy another comparable when it finally dies. Maybe I'll go to a machine shop and have them build me some replacement bars?


Cheers!

-Brian in SLC