Of rope silos and rope management...

[rsmiller]

So how many people use rope silos?

[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Thinking about getting one

[Pelon1]

They are the only way to go, makes rope management a breeze. Thats all I have ever done. Toms are the best also. They have some flotation, stiff neck and hold alot of rope.

Rope Bags (http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=255)

[hank moon]

[QUOTE=rsmiller;420635]So how many people use rope silos?

[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Thinking about getting one

[mtthwlw]

I've go one of Tom's Imlay Silos too. I love how much less time it takes to go after a drop-- less than half the time required for coiling. I just have one problem with it: how to attach it to my pack for the long hikes between raps. Perhaps I'm just using it wrong, but slinging it over my shoulder for a long time cuts into me:cry1: and it doesn't sit on my pack very well. (I have a very small pack-- not an Imlay pack) I'd like to see one with smallish pack straps instead of the webbing that they have. Maybe I could learn to use mine better.

How do you all pack yours around over your packs? Pictures would be nice.

[ratagonia]

I've go one of Tom's Imlay Silos too. I love how much less time it takes to go after a drop-- less than half the time required for coiling. I just have one problem with it: how to attach it to my pack for the long hikes between raps. Perhaps I'm just using it wrong, but slinging it over my shoulder for a long time cuts into me:cry1: and it doesn't sit on my pack very well. (I have a very small pack-- not an Imlay pack) I'd like to see one with smallish pack straps instead of the webbing that they have. Maybe I could learn to use mine better.

How do you all pack yours around over your packs? Pictures would be nice.

Matthew, Matthew, Matthew. You need to come down and take a class, I can see. The first thing you would learn is ...

Hand the rope off to one of your minions and say "here, carry this"...

Unless, of course, you are the youngest and strongest in your group, in which case you need a bigger pack.

Truthfully, no they don't carry all that well between drops. We usually give em to some young buck to carry, or hand them back and forth, tossing them past downclimbs. If you put them in a pack, they disappear from visibility.

Also helps to have a healthy remuda of ropes. While the one for the one or two long raps might be in someone's pack, the shorter 'working rope' is in a Bagarino and is easier to carry in the hand.

Tom

[Cirrus2000]

Also helps to have a healthy remuda of ropes.

:hail2thechief:

Ya learned me a new word, Tom!


Remuda is a herd of horses from which ranch hands select their mounts. The word is of Spanish-American derivation, for "change of horses".

Oh, and yeah - I've got a Bagarino, a medium Silo, and a Bagette. A selection of bags in which to keep my remuda of ropes. :2thumbs:

[jman]

just a quick derail, speaking of ropes

Emperor Tomulous,
Do you know the rope weights for a 200ft 8.3mm, a 200ft 9mm, and 300ft 9mm?

[ratagonia]

just a quick derail, speaking of ropes

Emperor Tomulous,
Do you know the rope weights for a 200ft 8.3mm, a 200ft 9mm, and 300ft 9mm?

The rope comparison chart is here: http://imlaycanyongear.com/ropes2.php

Enjoy.

Tomulus Maximus

[ratagonia]

:hail2thechief:

Ya learned me a new word, Tom!



Oh, and yeah - I've got a Bagarino, a medium Silo, and a Bagette. A selection of bags in which to keep my remuda of ropes. :2thumbs:

The credit goes to Louis Lamour!

T

[jman]

The rope comparison chart is here: http://imlaycanyongear.com/ropes2.php

Enjoy.

Tomulus Maximus

hehe nice! Didn't know that existed on your site. Thanks.

[rsmiller]

Thanks for the comments.... I think I'll give one a try...

[rsmiller]

Which size do people find the most useful... it seems the bagarino would be most useful....

When carrying a longer rope that you'll only use a couple of times, why even have a rope silo? Why not just stash it in your partners pack and then retrieve for the few times it will be used?

[moab mark]

Did you click on the link about 4 posts up? It shows which bag for which rope. Silo's rule I personally own 7 of them. Buy one and try it and then you'll have one for every rope.

[moab mark]

Which size do people find the most useful... it seems the bagarino would be most useful....

When carrying a longer rope that you'll only use a couple of times, why even have a rope silo? Why not just stash it in your partners pack and then retrieve for the few times it will be used?


If this long rope is in a silo you can use it all day long because you only have to use the amount you need. My buddy just went thru Behuniun recently and the guy he went with brought 2 300' ropes coiled. It was all the guy had. My buddy wanted to commit suicide by the end of the day from coiling all that rope all day long. I can't fathom rappeling a 70' drop with a coiled 300' rope.:angryfire:

[Bubbles]

After I drowned a standard rope bag in one canyon and had another bag float a mile downstream in a C canyon, I started using the silo. Never looked back. Definitely worth it.

[ratagonia]

If this long rope is in a silo you can use it all day long because you only have to use the amount you need. My buddy just went thru Behuniun recently and the guy he went with brought 2 300' ropes coiled. It was all the guy had. My buddy wanted to commit suicide by the end of the day from coiling all that rope all day long. I can't fathom rappeling a 70' drop with a coiled 300' rope.:angryfire:

I do not have any Small Silos at Canyoneering USA, but Bo might have one or two at the Desert Rat, and I know Zion Adventure Company has a few they could sell you.

Tom

[ratagonia]

I do not have any Small Silos at Canyoneering USA, but Bo might have one or two at the Desert Rat, and I know Zion Adventure Company has a few they could sell you.

Tom


Rope Bag
I think there is an error on the web site this bag is listed at $154

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/prod...cat=255&page=1

The text on that items says I am out of them until April - but people still order them. So sometimes when I am out of stuff, I put a ridiculous price on em, which discourages people from ordering them.

Tom

[moab mark]

The text on that items says I am out of them until April - but people still order them. So sometimes when I am out of stuff, I put a ridiculous price on em, which discourages people from ordering them.

Tom

Trying to run off prospective customers?:crazy:Wouldn't back ordering be a better idea?

[p40whk]

Perhaps I'm just using it wrong, but slinging it over my shoulder for a long time cuts into me:cry1: and it doesn't sit on my pack very well. (I have a very small pack-- not an Imlay pack) I'd like to see one with smallish pack straps instead of the webbing that they have.

I'll have to agree with this. Although I've only used the bag a few times (I have the small silo), I found it difficult to attach to my pack and it wouldn't fit inside. When in the canyon, it's no big deal because it's out most of the time but trying to figure out a way to secure it for the long approach will take some thought without having a few more sewn in clip loops (which would make this bag perfect in my mind).

[moab mark]

I took several of the larger silo's years ago and had a guy in Ogden sew back pack straps on them. I'll look for a picture. Use them alot in North Wash type canyons. Put the rope in the bottom, gear on top. Put on gear when you get to first drop and use silo as intended. But with the standard silos you either carry in your hand try to sling it over your shoulder or stick it in your pack. When going small distances between drops we biner them to the hand strap on the top of an Imlay Pack, the Silo just hangs on the side.

[trackrunner]

When in the canyon, it's no big deal because it's out most of the time but trying to figure out a way to secure it for the long approach will take some thought without having a few more sewn in clip loops (which would make this bag perfect in my mind).

I observed some friends do this for long approaches and have since tried it and it works well. If there is no room in your pack, and if your back pack has a lid that is strapped down place the rope bag under the lid and then strap the lid tight & secure with a binner in case it pulls out. ymmv

[mtthwlw]

I took several of the larger silo's years ago and had a guy in Ogden sew back pack straps on them. I'll look for a picture.

That's what I'd like. Who'd you take them to in Ogden? I might do that with mine.

[moab mark]

Here is a picture. I can't remember the guys name, Canyon Sports in Ogden has his card on the wall. I tried to get the Emperor to add straps to them 4 or 5 yrs ago, but he didn't want to play. My younger kids use these for packs everywhere we go.

39106

[p40whk]

I observed some friends do this for long approaches and have since tried it and it works well. If there is no room in your pack, and if your back pack has a lid that is strapped down place the rope bag under the lid and then strap the lid tight & secure with a binner in case it pulls out. ymmv

I tried that and that's ok for flat and level hikes but that extra weight on top of my pack nearly sent me into a death tumble down death gully into Mystery Canyon:scared:

There's not a lot of flat on that down climb and once I hit the real steep grade the extra weight on top of my pack really made a difference in balance. We ended up stopping and strapping it on the bottom of the pack but couldn't get it secure enough to keep it from banging against my back side on every step.

[ratagonia]

I took several of the larger silo's years ago and had a guy in Ogden sew back pack straps on them. I'll look for a picture. Use them alot in North Wash type canyons. Put the rope in the bottom, gear on top. Put on gear when you get to first drop and use silo as intended. But with the standard silos you either carry in your hand try to sling it over your shoulder or stick it in your pack. When going small distances between drops we biner them to the hand strap on the top of an Imlay Pack, the Silo just hangs on the side.

Shocked! Shocked I am, ... because I do offer a Large Rope Silo with shoulder straps on it. It is called the Mystery Pack.

Tom :moses:

[ratagonia]

I tried that and that's ok for flat and level hikes but that extra weight on top of my pack nearly sent me into a death tumble down death gully into Mystery Canyon:scared:

There's not a lot of flat on that down climb and once I hit the real steep grade the extra weight on top of my pack really made a difference in balance. We ended up stopping and strapping it on the bottom of the pack but couldn't get it secure enough to keep it from banging against my back side on every step.

So let me get this straight - you have a pack that is not big enough the carry the stuff you want... and you want the stuff to be somehow smaller or more friendly. The solution is to have a big enough pack. Did Mystery Canyon today, and wore a Heaps pack. Wetsuit - check. Ropes, lots of other stuff - check. It all fit inside and carried well.

Perhaps I should restate as: have a pack big enough to carry your stuff.

For long approaches, in the unlikely case that I have to carry the rope, I pull a big rope out of the silo and coil it, so it can be carried in a good position on the pack, and perhaps someone else can carry the silo. At the first drop, load the long rope into the silo.

The silo is optimized for utilizing the rope, not for carrying it. It does not carry so well ON a pack, because it is an awkward shape. If I made it a good shape to be carried ON a pack, it would not work as well for utilizing the rope.

Tom :moses:

[moab mark]

Shocked! Shocked I am, ... because I do offer a Large Rope Silo with shoulder straps on it. It is called the Mystery Pack.

Tom :moses:
I just went over to your site, had not seen a Mystery, when do you come out with it? I noticed you did away with the large silo? I've been storing Scott Holley's Imlay Packs while he is off screwing around. He has a couple that I have been using lately, (he'll never know):naughty: they are between a spry and large silo but look like a silo, awesome packs. He said they were one of your guys original packs. Looks like the Mystery would feel the same niche.

[ratagonia]

I just went over to your site, had not seen a Mystery, when do you come out with it? I noticed you did away with the large silo? I've been storing Scott Holley's Imlay Packs while he is off screwing around. He has a couple that I have been using lately, (he'll never know):naughty: they are between a spry and large silo but look like a silo, awesome packs. He said they were one of your guys original packs. Looks like the Mystery would feel the same niche.

The Mystery pack started out EXACTLY as a Large Silo with shoulder straps on it, for Zion Adventure Co...

This is the pack that I have changed pretty much every year, trying to find the right combination of features / weight / etc. The current offering from that exploration includes the Spry Pack (the regular canyoneer version) and the Mystery Pack (the guide-company version for clients to carry). I think both packs are pretty right-on as far as what I wanted to achieve :clap: but... neither has really been successful from a sales point of view. :cry1:

But, the current Mystery is the size of a large rope silo, good for 300 feet of 9mm, but does not have a lot of drainage (but certainly has some).

Tom :moses:

[moab mark]

Unless my Silo's are different my Spry-Mystery pack body is larger then my Silo's? IMO a basic large silo with just shoulder straps for around $80 would sell. I'll take 4. The one's I made have become a favorite of my tribe. We even slide a small silo or bagarino in them and then store gear on top. I have a Spry and IMO it's not big enough to go on a full day and haul rope (unlike Ram I have to haul rope) but not small enough for skinny slots. The big waist band really gets in the way when dragging it thru a slot. Plus the price makes you want to treat it nicely. If you are going to have a nice waist strap might as well go with the Heaps or Kolob. My next one I get will be a Heaps, I like my Kolob but wish it was bigger. I have a Lep also and doesn't haul rope well. Maybe a Mystery with out the waist belt? Just my opinion.

[mtthwlw]

The text on that items says I am out of them until April - but people still order them. So sometimes when I am out of stuff, I put a ridiculous price on em, which discourages people from ordering them.Tom

Tom... A hypothetical situation: so if I put an item on your site on a Christmas list, and say, my mom goes to buy something for me and has no idea if that item should cost $50 or $150... would you give her a heads-up? Or would she be fooled into buying something at the ridiculous price? :oops:

What I'm saying is that some people visiting your site may not be aware of the difference between a ridiculous price and a good one. (You'd think that the med-silo at 1/3 of the price of small would tip her off, but I'm talking about my hypothetical mom here. She's already probably typed the URL that I sent her as a hyperlink into the yahoo search engine to find your page... and she's not sure what she's looking at anyway.)

[ratagonia]

Tom... A hypothetical situation: so if I put an item on your site on a Christmas list, and say, my mom goes to buy something for me and has no idea if that item should cost $50 or $150... would you give her a heads-up? Or would she be fooled into buying something at the ridiculous price? :oops:

What I'm saying is that some people visiting your site may not be aware of the difference between a ridiculous price and a good one. (You'd think that the med-silo at 1/3 of the price of small would tip her off, but I'm talking about my hypothetical mom here. She's already probably typed the URL that I sent her as a hyperlink into the yahoo search engine to find your page... and she's not sure what she's looking at anyway.)

I don't KEEP the bonus... but I prefer not the hassle of refunding it and explaining that it is not available, as it said on the page. "Not Available" I believe is (in theory) a universal, easily understood concept - though people would have to READ the page to pick up on that...

If I knew how to manipulate the website better, I could turn ordering off - but I cannot. Should I make the price 0$ ???

Tom

[Cirrus2000]

I think about $1,000,000 would work. Even more than a g-pick!

[mtthwlw]

"Not Available" I believe is (in theory) a universal, easily understood concept - though people would have to READ the page to pick up on that...

You know, I went to http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=255 and didn't see "Not Available"... but you're right, it does say it on the page when you click on the item. Not trying to hassle... just trying to make sure I can send my mom or wife-- or whomever-- to your site when they ask "What do you want for Festivus this year?" :lol8:

[ratagonia]

You know, I went to http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/home.php?cat=255 and didn't see "Not Available"... but you're right, it does say it on the page when you click on the item. Not trying to hassle... just trying to make sure I can send my mom or wife-- or whomever-- to your site when they ask "What do you want for Festivus this year?" :lol8:

Good points, thanks. I have made some changes to be more aggressive on these matters.

Tom

[chabidiah]

I can vouch for Tom rarely carrying the rope. Did Englestead with him last year and I think he passed it to me every time for the carry... But I also am a proud silo owner and after Tom showed me the proper way to use it, I am set.

[moab mark]

I don't KEEP the bonus... but I prefer not the hassle of refunding it and explaining that it is not available, as it said on the page. "Not Available" I believe is (in theory) a universal, easily understood concept - though people would have to READ the page to pick up on that...

If I knew how to manipulate the website better, I could turn ordering off - but I cannot. Should I make the price 0$ ???



Tom

Why not just do back orders? Take their mullah and then make em wait.:nod:

[ratagonia]

Why not just do back orders? Take their mullah and then make em wait.:nod:

I have tried that (I like taking people's money) but I am not very good at managing backorders, so I consider it better to not have many hanging over my head.

Tom

[rsmiller]

Used the Baganaro in Not Mindbender and Mindbender over Thanksgiving. To be honest I am not sold yet. We tested having one rope coiled and the other bagged. In general the coiled rope was faster to clean up but the bagged rope was faster to deploy. Coiled rope was easier to pack and the bagged rope was difficult to pack.

I am use to stuffing rope bags (also rafter) so the stuffing technique was not a problem. Also had a hard time figuring out how to pack the rope bag. Coiled ropes tend to pack easier as they fill in the space in the pack while the rope bag is ridged and takes up a lot of room. It’s tough strapped on the back of a pack in the tight spots and a pain to carry both a pack and the rope bag in the small places.

I'll try it a few more times but it seems like it might have its place in long canyons with fewer narrows and lots of longer raps. In a place like the roost a coiled rope might work best.

[ratagonia]

Used the Baganaro in Not Mindbender and Mindbender over Thanksgiving. To be honest I am not sold yet. We tested having one rope coiled and the other bagged. In general the coiled rope was faster to clean up but the bagged rope was faster to deploy. Coiled rope was easier to pack and the bagged rope was difficult to pack.

I am use to stuffing rope bags (also rafter) so the stuffing technique was not a problem. Also had a hard time figuring out how to pack the rope bag. Coiled ropes tend to pack easier as they fill in the space in the pack while the rope bag is ridged and takes up a lot of room. It’s tough strapped on the back of a pack in the tight spots and a pain to carry both a pack and the rope bag in the small places.

I'll try it a few more times but it seems like it might have its place in long canyons with fewer narrows and lots of longer raps. In a place like the roost a coiled rope might work best.

Yup!

Those canyons have a few rappels, far apart, where using a rope bag is of marginal use. Though, as you get used to the stuffing, your speed and efficiency will improve.

Tom :moses: