Sterling ATS Canyoneering Rappel Device - Review

[ratagonia]

Sterling gave me an ATS to try out, and here is my report to Sterling (slightly edited):

Matt Andrews
Sterling Ropes, Biddeford Maine
August 31, 2010

Dear Matt

[Cirrus2000]

Very interesting, Tom. I wouldn't mind checking this out - I thought from the start that it looked like a variation on the Pirana, usage-wise. Intriguing that it has more friction - I like that idea, as a 200 pounder. Currently more expensive than a Pirana? By about how much?

[ratagonia]

Very interesting, Tom. I wouldn't mind checking this out - I thought from the start that it looked like a variation on the Pirana, usage-wise. Intriguing that it has more friction - I like that idea, as a 200 pounder. Currently more expensive than a Pirana? By about how much?

They had not set the price as of August, and the 'natural' price for them would have been $ 39.99. A tough sell when the Pirana is $ 34.95. They went as low as they could - and set the release price at retail for $35.99.

Tom :moses:

[bretoyce]

Hummm intriguing! Tom another question did you try the ATS device in a tube mode looks kinda clean, the anodization coloring still looks fresh?!?! There are a lot of potential options for tubular rigging as well, I would be curious about those friction settings and results. I am sure they would have similar outcomes, but just would like to know. Thanks!:hail2thechief:

[ratagonia]

Hummm intriguing! Tom another question did you try the ATS device in a tube mode looks kinda clean, the anodization coloring still looks fresh?!?! There are a lot of potential options for tubular rigging as well, I would be curious about those friction settings and results. I am sure they would have similar outcomes, but just would like to know. Thanks!:hail2thechief:

I did not, though, I can see that it offers some good options there, and I might take it out of retirement for that. Specifically, I like plates with handles on them, so the braking power can be controlled with the whammy bar. Also allows for ez tie-off. But also allows for further use, after retiring because the Pirana mode is too chewed up. Did a Heaps trip with it as its last trip - faster to use than the Pirana because of the more-friction thing. Did not use it on the last two rappels as I was worried about it at that point. Used a newish Pirana extended, with leg loop biner and z-rig.

Tom

[moab mark]

So at this point would you recommend this new toy over a pirana for 200 pounders? If you have tried one what's your opinion of the totem?

[ratagonia]

So at this point would you recommend this new toy over a pirana for 200 pounders? If you have tried one what's your opinion of the totem?

Yes, I like it better for over 185ers like me (ha, I wish, I really do!) - except I am concerned it might wear out faster than a Pirana. My test period was especially harsh so hard to say.

Because of my conflict with Rich, I have both not tried the Totem and consider it inappropriate for me to express an opinion on it.

Tom :moses:

[Cirrus2000]

Because of my conflict with Rich, I have both not tried the Totem and consider it inappropriate for me to express an opinion on it.

Tom :moses:

This I find particularly interesting because I seem to recall you having some conflict with advocates of the WCCM - or more correctly, very strong reservations about their book. Some strong statements you made in regard to the book may have implied (or created) conflict with the authors, at least. Am I mistaken in that recollection? Or was there conflict which was resolved?



Hmmmm

[moab mark]

Have you ever tried rigging your pirana upside down. I was playing around with different ways in Undercover and rigging it this way really increased the friction. It stays under the hook easier which really bends the rope. Like using a fig 8. Also if wanting more friction changing over to left handed half way down really puts a pinch on the rope. A concern I had is you could be rubbing on the gate when going over the edge. But it creates alot more friction.
39007

[ratagonia]

This I find particularly interesting because I seem to recall you having some conflict with advocates of the WCCM - or more correctly, very strong reservations about their book. Some strong statements you made in regard to the book may have implied (or created) conflict with the authors, at least. Am I mistaken in that recollection? Or was there conflict which was resolved?

Hmmmm

I have no specific conflict with Travis and Darren, though I found their book rather weak. I have been meaning to do a better job of reviewing their effort, since my "quick-hit" review was also rather weak! They graciously have forgiven my trespasses, aided by my admitting to Travis that my comments were perhaps kind of hasty.

Additionally, while Sterling and ATS are Colleagues, they are not the same company.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Have you ever tried rigging your pirana upside down. I was playing around with different ways in Undercover and rigging it this way really increased the friction. It stays under the hook easier which really bends the rope. Like using a fig 8. Also if wanting more friction changing over to left handed half way down really puts a pinch on the rope. A concern I had is you could be rubbing on the gate when going over the edge. But it creates alot more friction.
39007

You get more friction because you are using a rope path identical to the original rope path. Piranas get faster as they wear.

Turn the biner over. Have it attached as normal, then rig it "upside down" like you show. The gate will be on top, and you will get more friction. This is a good trick Mark that I had not thought of - though really you have just started wearing it on the other side. Good for getting the original friction back, but it does not really truly add life to the product since we are wearing in the same spots, just on the other side.

Alternatively, if you flip the Pirana over (ie, left-handed configuration) and rig the rope right-handed, then you get new material to rappel on. But, the bigger horns are on "the wrong side", thus making some function maybe not as easy to use.

Tom :moses:

[moab mark]

With the biner up you can not rig it upside down without taking the pirana off? From my test you are not getting back to normal friction you are getting substantially more. By how your brake hand pulls down you put a much tighter bend in the rope. The brake strand is looping over itself which creates the extra friction. You can pull it down on itself like an 8 allows you to do.

Edit
If you squeeze the rope against the biner with your left hand it really increases the friction. Give it a whirl. Set it up both ways and try it you'll be suprised.

[ratagonia]

With the biner up you can not rig it upside down without taking the pirana off? From my test you are not getting back to normal friction you are getting substantially more. By how your brake hand pulls down you put a much tighter bend in the rope. The brake strand is looping over itself which creates the extra friction. You can pull it down on itself like an 8 allows you to do.

Edit
If you squeeze the rope against the biner with your left hand it really increases the friction. Give it a whirl. Set it up both ways and try it you'll be suprised.

Hmmm yeah, ya got a point there, unless you skip rope over the whole loop maybe...

True, subtle changes in the rope path can result in remarkable changes to the friction.

T

[Brian in SLC]

Great review of that rap device, Tom.

Horny little bugger...

[oldno7]

Tom
Did I miss it or was there some literature describing the intended friction settings and other uses?
I can see several options for rigging this device, some might not be their recommended settings.
Just curious what they do suggest.

[ratagonia]

They had not set the price as of August, and the 'natural' price for them would have been $ 39.99. A tough sell when the Pirana is $ 34.95. They went as low as they could - and set the release price at retail for $35.99.

Tom :moses:

Ooooops. I stand corrected. The Final Price on it IS $ 39.99.

Mine did not come with any literature, Matt just gave me one off the rack. It has settings just like the Pirana.

Tom

[Pelon1]

Just curious what they do suggest.

Don't need friction just Autoblocks:haha::haha:

[ratagonia]

Ooooops. I stand corrected. The Final Price on it IS $ 39.99.

Mine did not come with any literature, Matt just gave me one off the rack. It has settings just like the Pirana.

Tom

Just got word - not available until some time in January. Got some coming then.

Tom :moses:

[Chungy22]

That looks like an interesting device! I like how big the ears are. That would make for easy tie-off for pics, resting or helping someone. It might be a little too much friction for me though.... only 150 lbs! haha

[ratagonia]

Now available at the CUSA website -

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16415&cat=251&page=1

Tom

[moab mark]

Money is in the mail.:wink:

[ratagonia]

Money is in the mail.:wink:

Thanks Mark - 'preciate ya! :cool2:

Tom :moses:

[oldno7]

Will be waiting for your full report:2thumbs:

[moab mark]

That was fast. The new toy showed up today. It has a curve to it, by flipping the device over it changes the friction settings. Just playing with it in my kitchen it seems to have a lot more fricition then a pirana. On the instruction page they do not recommend looping the rope over both lower hooks? I attach the instruction sheet if you want to take a look.

http://www.rescueresponse.com/store/media/pdf/Sterling_Rope_ATS_Rappel_Belay_Device_Instructions _Care_Diagrams.pdf

[oldno7]

Might have to try one out, but it would have to be quite impressive to make me give up my double eights.

[moab mark]

Just by looking at it Tom's concern about the top bar wearing out fast could be a problem. The way the device is curved that top bar will have alot of friction on it. There is not alot of material there.

[moab mark]

Ok I have given it a full test, ok one rappel. I used it on the last rappel in High Spur. It's the only rappel we did on our trip. I think it is about a 60 ft free hang. I used it in the basic canyon mode. It has SERIOUS friction. If I had set my pirana in canyon on that drop I would of been picking rocks out of my behind. Half way down I easily stopped and played with the hooks. The hooks are a vast improvement over the pirana hooks. Like the Totem the plaquette area allows you to really squeeze the rope in that area with your left hand for friction. I wished we would of had more rappels to play with it but hey that was it. If your a big boy you'll like this new device.

[chabidiah]

Kurt, you are old school brotha'.

[Mojave Silence]

Just by looking at it Tom's concern about the top bar wearing out fast could be a problem. The way the device is curved that top bar will have alot of friction on it. There is not alot of material there.

I've got about 30 or so canyons in on my "ATS" and top bar wear is not an issue. It wears far less than a piranha

[dougr]

Wouldn't it make sense to flip to low friction mode to reduce wear on the upper bar? The horns would seem to supply enough friction options.

[ilipichicuma]

Wouldn't it make sense to flip to low friction mode to reduce wear on the upper bar? The horns would seem to supply enough friction options.

Those horns almost give too much friction. I have put the rope around the horns on a free-hang and I couldn't even move, and I'm a big 260-pounder. Using just one of the horns would probably work, though, I haven't messed around with that as much. It's an awesome device, though. I love mine.

[ratagonia]

Wouldn't it make sense to flip to low friction mode to reduce wear on the upper bar? The horns would seem to supply enough friction options.

Low Friction or High Friction mode, that top bar still gets a lot of wear. The advantage with the flip would be that the wear spot would switch right and left.

The High Friction mode is VERY high friction. Unlikely to be a useful way to use for most adults, using normal ropes.

Tom

[dougr]

Serious friction indeed. I finally played with mine today on some raps. Low friction mode with the ears is probably too much. Low friction mode with the one ear underwrap, which is shown in the instructions, is good. Although possible too much still.

I am a bit disappointed that the progress capturing ascension mode isn't as great as I'd hoped.

[ratagonia]

Serious friction indeed. I finally played with mine today on some raps. Low friction mode with the ears is probably too much. Low friction mode with the one ear underwrap, which is shown in the instructions, is good. Although possible too much still.

I am a bit disappointed that the progress capturing ascension mode isn't as great as I'd hoped.

Progress Capture mode on a Pirana (at least) requires the rope to be somewhat soft. So if the rope you used was stiff it might not of worked with any of these crossing type progress-capture methods.

Tom

[dougr]

That didn't occur to me. Noob-ness showing, will test again with something suppler.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

[ratagonia]

bump---

[dougr]

Been using my ATS a lot in the San Gabs in So. Cal. Really liking it now. I'm using low friction mode only, weighing in at 185 but as the leader with a 25 pound pack am coming in at 210. The horns are ridiculous friction that I can't envision ever needing. I use a full technora sheath rope 85% of the time, so rope fuzz isn't adding friction. The ascent mode is actually very decent as well. I use that with a Kong Duck and can get up pretty quickly. Very impressed overall.