Beta and estimating time

[Iceaxe]

The biggest issue I have had with trail beta (beta for which I am very grateful for...no rock throwing here) is when a time is given for a turnoff. For example, it takes 15 minutes to reach the turnoff for Kolob. If I'm not following on a map I can be over a quarter mile down boundary at 15 minutes from the trailhead. Other times I may be:slobber: 1 hr 15 minutes and thinking I'm lost to reach a 45 minute junction. Distances associated with time (ex 15 min/.4 miles) may help dummies like myself.:roll:

I split this out of the Boundary Canyon thread because its also a pet-peeve of mine.....

I find time estimates in beta to be nearly worthless....

A while back I was canyoneering with the wife and kids and was using some popular beta.... the beta said the turnoff was 5 to 10 minutes up the trail..... after exactly 48 seconds we reached the turn-off, but I told my family that couldn't possibly be correct as we had been hiking for less then one minute.... so we hiked up the wrong drainage for an additional 20 minutes looking for the turn-off before discovering the author of the beta had no clue as to time and/or distance. Instead of 10 minutes the beta should have read 250-yards or maybe 1 minute.

Now you think I would have learned my lesson..... but NO.... on the same trip using the same beta the next turn-off was noted as 20 to 30 minutes.... after exactly 7 minutes and 43 seconds we reached the second turn-off.... but this time I had wised up a little and only hiked anther 5 minutes up the wrong drainage before deciding the author of the beta was time challenged or the slowest hiker on the planet....

So.... I prefer those who spray beta and post it where it can be accessed by the masses use distances, which can easily be pulled from your map and/or GPS track.... or at a minimum please actually time your distance (or pull the actual time from your GPS track) if you insist on using time....


/Rant-off

:soapbox:

[taatmk]

I find time estimates in beta to be nearly worthless....

I would agree that time estimates are a lot less precise than distance estimates, especially when considering the size of your group verses whoever completed the beta.....

[Scott Card]

Group size, experience of members, group dynamics (been together before?), equipment, fitness, familiarity with canyon, etc. all play into time. I found that when I look at times in books or on the net I too take it with a grain of salt as I know that my typical Mapleton Boys group is faster than the times listed, not because of me mind you, but because of the young guns, our group efficiency, and some skills. It is also amazing that with four to six in a group you can lug a bunch of rope which makes a multi rap canyon sooo much faster. Problem is, John (the dutch oven master) and I usually end up with all the ropes at the end since we typically are the cleaners while Spidey and Clark are using there massive skills to solve the problems ahead. But I am ok with that. :cool2: If someone tells me to hike for five minutes, it simply drives me nuts too. Give me a distance, a land mark, something concrete/fixed/constant. Throw out times for me on the other end of the scale if there is a lot of stemming. I am slow and scared. :haha:

[Mojave Silence]

In a perfect world, GPS coordinates would be used for all Beta.