Buying a canoe

[ibenick]

I have decided to start looking for a canoe to do some flat water paddling. Ideally I would like to use it to head out onto lakes and also float some smooth rivers like the Green through Labyrinth Canyon. I was hoping the paddlers out here could give me some tips on what to look for. I'm a big guy, 6'4", 270 lbs so I'm wondering if there is a specific type or size that I should seek out. Also, I've noticed there are some with flat backs so you can attach a trolling motor, seems like that would be a nice option but do you give anything up by not having the pointed end on the back? Any suggestions would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[blueeyes]

I am interested in the answers for this thread. :popcorn: How small of a canoe could you get for 3 people? We had one when I was a kid, loved canoeing on Causey Reservoir.

[Sombeech]

You should look into an inflatable canoe like Alex has. Easy to transport around, very stable in the water.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22845&stc=1&d=1217701998

[blueeyes]

How long do they take to inflate? How much space to they require to pack?

[Sombeech]

How long do they take to inflate? How much space to they require to pack?

Alex has a big pump that is pretty common among rafters, takes about 5 minutes to inflate. Takes up maybe as much space as 2 sleeping bags

[ibenick]

Man those SOAR inflatables look perfect but soooooo expensive!

[Sombeech]

Man those SOAR inflatables look perfect but soooooo expensive!

They can handle some big water
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?31385-Westwater-Aug-08-Trip-Report


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EJrET8MZO4&feature=player_embedded#!

[denaliguide]

i have an old sears & roebuck 15' aluminium canoe that i got last summer for $250. best money i ever spent. did a lot of paddling with it last summer and had a blast. took the family for a couple of 4 day trips though some canoe trails and it worked great. as long as the third person is a kid. for a guy your size a 16' should work and you can probably find one on craigslist. that is where i got mine.

i don't think you really give up anything with a square stern. and a small motor can be fun as long as you dont have to do any portageing.

i do like the look of the inflateable canoes too. easy to transport and store. they just look like a lot of fun.

36318

36319

36320

36321

[double moo]

I just bought an inflatable last week - 14'. I had an Old Town Discovery 169 and it was a great boat - my brother still has it in MA some 12 years later. This time I wanted something that was easier to handle out of the water - no rack needed, 54 lbs, fits in car trunk, 10 min or less set up, etc.. I plan to leave this up at my cabin so I'm not always sure what experience (or vehicle) those using it may have (kids, friends, etc...) therefore I thought an inflatable to be more stable in flat or whitewater. I paddled it around Causey last week and it was fun but definitely not as easily handled as a rigid boat - I do have a rear skeg on order that should help with the tracking in flat water. For my current needs it will work great. Yes the inflatable can get really expensive - If I hadn't scored a sweet deal at the Outdoor Retailers Show I might have gone a different direction. Assess your needs/desires/plans and get the boat that works for you.

The Hobies with the Mirage drive are some great boats in both rigid and inflatable.

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/models_oasis.html

[Cirrus2000]

Alex has a big pump that is pretty common among rafters

TMI. But I didn't know that about rafters in general.

[blueeyes]

Alex has a big pump that is pretty common among rafters

TMI. But I didn't know that about rafters in general.

LMAO!
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[ibenick]

Thanks for the tips everyone!

It looks like those Soar inflatables are definitely the way to go. Good for flat water and white water and no tying a canoe to the roof. That rocks. I think in the mean time I'll pick up something super cheap to get me going and hopefully drop the big bucks for the Soar in the spring of 2011.

[Shan]

I am not an expert on canoes, but when I bought mine I learned a few things..

There are river canoes and lake canoes.

River canoes are generally shorter and have more "rocker" to them - that means the bow and stern turned up more. They are generally narrower too. These can be ran by one person (they usually kneel) in Class II and up rapids. They can turn quickly and are meant for river running.

Lake canoes have flat bottoms, and most likely a keel (the groove down the middle of the boat) to help with stabilization. I have a lake canoe myself and it can hold up to 1000 pounds. This thing has never tipped. I have only fallen out once (my own fault) but getting back into the boat was so simple. I just hoisted up on the nose. Very stable. In fact I call mine the Barge. I have taken it down the Labyrinth and other canoe camping places and I can really pack it full with gear, two people and a dog. I have taken my lake canoe on upper Class I and lower Class II before. Not as easy to turn the Barge however.

If I were more skilled in white water, I'd get a river canoe.

I have been in aluminum canoes and I prefer the PolyLink3 material. They are sturdier on rocks and can take more of a beating.

I have an Old Town Guide that cost me about $650 I think
http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/generalFamily/guide_160.html

Then a great book I have used for Idaho: http://www.amazon.com/Kath-Rons-Guide-Idaho-Paddling/dp/1877625078/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282073303&sr=8-1

[Alex]

You are welcome to come by and look at my SOAR. I like it. It doesn't track as well as a hard shell canoe, but it's perfect for our Utah rivers. I've done a few canoe trips, the hassle of moving and storing a hard shell turned me away from them.

and yes a rafter without a big pump, isn't a real rafter....

[slickrocker]

ibenick, just my 2 cents, one boat won't do it all. You'll need to decide what the main use will be or what the biggest trip you'll want to use it for will be. You say in your OP you'd like to canoe Labyrinth Canyon, well that's a multiday trip. You'll need space for water, gear, ice box, etc. Unless you'll be doing multi day trips solo you'll need a two seater and space for more gear. If you're taking your wife or girlfriend - more space, more gear.
My wife and I are leaving on Mon for a 5 night trip through Stillwater Canyon in Canyonlands. We've got a 16.5 ft. Mad River Explorer and it'll be packed when we shove off. 20 gallons of water, ice box, food box, kitchen box, tent, cots, toilet system, etc. etc.
I'm 57 and 100 lbs. less than you, I move that 70 lbs. canoe every week during the summer, on the car, off the car, to the backyard, to the front, on the car, off the car, etc. I hoist it up in the garage during the winter, no big deal.
Hope this helps.

[REDFOX]

My dad bought a wenonah adirondack 16' tuff weave fiberglass canoe about 10 years ago. We have taken it down the snake river, the Provo river through the railroad tressall, and other lakes and rivers. We have hit rocks with it and have not had to repair it yet. My dad spent months researching what he thought would be the best all around canoe and so far it has met all expectations. Wenonah and old town are good brands to research and consider.

[ibenick]

Thanks for the information everyone. I'm still thinking hard about this, especially after this past weekend floating the Snake. I'm thinking I'll try to pick something up this winter while they're cheap!

But in the meantime I have some stupid noob questions hopefully someone can answer.

What class of water is reasonable to take a canoe through, like Class 2 or maybe even 3?

What happens if you roll or otherwise come out of your canoe (or any kind of river boat) in a current and it goes running down stream without you? You're not tied into it so it could just keep going forever right? I have little experience beyond boy scout camp in canoes but from what I remember it felt like it wanted to tip over pretty bad, is that right?

I've seen a lot of really cheap inflatable canoes/kayaks. Are these actually reasonable options for floating a calm river? Why or why not?

Thanks in advance.

[Rev. Coyote]

Very late to this thread, but for someone your size and for the type of paddling you're considering, see if you can find a Blue Hole OCA. They are only available on the used market, but are awesome boats. The OCA is 16', and can trip with over 1,000 pounds. They are also surprisingly agile and great in heavy water.

[Alex]

A hard shell canoe without bladders are going to be a pain in the ass on anything higher than 1-2 class, class 2 is pushing it. The problem is the water WILL get inside the canoe and the more water you gain the harder it is to steer and MORE water get inside due to the boat sitting too low.

However, I have seen canoes taken down class 5, even rolling them up right. If you want to do flat water in a hard shell canoe, you need to get the bladders. They are bow shaped air bladders that you inflate by mouth (Justin no dirty thoughts here!) and those bladders take up the space inside the canoe and force the water out. This is an extreme approach to whitewater, you shouldn't have problems without bladders on flat sections.

If you flip in a canoe, you and the boat will float at the same time for the first little bit. So you will be able to catch up to your craft. Unless of course you try to swim to shore. Flipping a canoe back up while you are in a water isn't easy. I'd say impossible for the first time, so make sure you take it to a calm section and practice flipping it in a control environment.

I learned a hard lesson when I was trying to flip my SOAR back up in a class 4 rapid, it literally kicked my ass.

Any water sport isn't a joke and should be taken seriously. Whatever boat you go with, please wear a life jacket, know how to self rescue, be aware of hypothermia and know your limits.

Hard shells provide great tracking, but suck at transporting and storing. Inflatables are great to take anywhere, but you could possibly puncture it. Stay away from cheapo inflatables, they are one time use. If you want to enjoy the sport, don't go for the cheapest, get a mid range quality.
Otherwise, you are going to be a pro at repairing the equipment and swearing :lol8:

Alex

[tanya]

TMI. But I didn't know that about rafters in general.



:slobber::slobber::slobber::slobber: Oh Alex!



PS... That's what I want for Christmas!!!!
















a canoe!

[Alex]

How about a canoe with a rafter in it holding a big pump? :naughty:

[tanya]

Could you come gift wrapped like that. :slobber:



All I want for Christmas is......


Well you get the idea. :mrgreen:

[Alex]

Well you get the idea. :mrgreen:

This?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhwbxEfy7fg

[tanya]

Christmas In a box....

Oh yeah.. special.. real.... bring it on baby. :wink: Make sure it has a big red bow on it!

[Rev. Coyote]

Alex: I should have mentioned air bags, thanks. And a helmet for the rocks. I'm very old school when it comes to whitewater, and prefer canoes in up to Class 3. The agility of a canoe is amazing if you know the strokes (and that's the important part). I have a "boat problem," as it were, now owning two Dagger whitewater boats. I have a Dagger Ovation fully rigged with airbags and a saddle which takes heavy water well, and a pink (yes, pink) Dagger Encore I bought this summer from a Craigslister in G.J. Co. "Pinkie" is a hell of a boat, though war-torn, with a small saddle, airbags and asymmetrical hull. It took the nasties very well on the San Miguel and was as nimble as a ballerina on the Animas. But I digress -- yes, as Alex said, know deep-water reentry techniques. Practice in calm water on a hot day. I'd highly recommend a few ACA-certified classes.

[Alex]

Tanya, you heard Rev. He has a pink canoe and knows his strokes! Can't go wrong with a river junkie :naughty:

Rev, you are set sounds like! I've seen some dudes doing crazy stuff in canoes, so it's definitely doable. I've taken a hard shell canoe down class 3, I didn't know what I was doing, but it was still fun and I made it. Even though I had to learn how to flip the boat up right in a rapid (not fun at all!)

[tanya]

I have a preference for Russian river junkies. :slobber:

[p40whk]

http://www.paddling.net/

Is a great source for reviews and info on canoes and kayaks. There is an extensive database in the review section and a great forum as well. If I were buying, I'd look here to get answers.

[Udink]

I followed this thread with mild interest back when it was started, but after a very short but fun experience floating the Green River last weekend, I decided that I have to get a canoe. I think I know what I want, but my question now is, where to shop for a canoe? I'm thinking about heading up to the SLC area to look for one, but the only places I know will have them are Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse. Anyone know of any other places in either Utah or Salt Lake valleys that sell 'em?

[DOSS]

Very late to this thread, but for someone your size and for the type of paddling you're considering, see if you can find a Blue Hole OCA. They are only available on the used market, but are awesome boats. The OCA is 16', and can trip with over 1,000 pounds. They are also surprisingly agile and great in heavy water.

I used to have a canoe just like this.. Only green.. paddled great!.. Got stolen from me at lost lake in the Uintas in 2010... I still need to get me a inflatable ...

[DOSS]

I followed this thread with mild interest back when it was started, but after a very short but fun experience floating the Green River last weekend, I decided that I have to get a canoe. I think I know what I want, but my question now is, where to shop for a canoe? I'm thinking about heading up to the SLC area to look for one, but the only places I know will have them are Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouse. Anyone know of any other places in either Utah or Salt Lake valleys that sell 'em?


Sidsports would be a good place to check out as well www.sidsports.com

[REDFOX]

Sidsports is where I bought my more than 10 years ago. Those guys specialize in water sports and they are quite knowledgeable. Rei would be my second choice.

[gnwatts]

I got my Wenonah 16' Adirondack on Craigslist, barely used for $550. Only weighs 55 lbs. Carries everything we need, it has handled full class 2 water. Greta boat.
Greg

[IntrepidXJ]

Dennis- if you want to head the other direction to GJ, we have a shop here called Whitewater West....that's where I get my river gear from.

[Udink]

Dennis- if you want to head the other direction to GJ, we have a shop here called Whitewater West....that's where I get my river gear from.
Dang, why didn't I think of that?! GJ is is slightly farther than SLC but the same driving time for me. There's not really a used market around SLC (I checked Craigslist and KSL Classified and there isn't much around there), but there's a lot in your area. Thanks, Randy. :nod: I may plan a day where I can check out some used ones, and hit a retail store if I strike out.

[REDFOX]

I got my Wenonah 16' Adirondack on Craigslist, barely used for $550. Only weighs 55 lbs. Carries everything we need, it has handled full class 2 water. Greta boat.
Greg

This is the same exact canoe that I bought. It has been down some pretty rought rivers and floated numerous lakes. I think it cost around 1100.00 10 years ago.

[IntrepidXJ]

Dang, why didn't I think of that?! GJ is is slightly farther than SLC but the same driving time for me. There's not really a used market around SLC (I checked Craigslist and KSL Classified and there isn't much around there), but there's a lot in your area. Thanks, Randy. :nod: I may plan a day where I can check out some used ones, and hit a retail store if I strike out.

There's a lot of river runners around here :)

[gnwatts]

This is the same exact canoe that I bought. It has been down some pretty rought rivers and floated numerous lakes. I think it cost around 1100.00 10 years ago.

It is an amazing boat (55 lbs!). I read it did not like heavy loads - untrue! It tracks straight and fast, can turn quickly and can handle some whitewater and waves. I have gone through 12-18" waves and it churns right along. Loaded up on our last trip, with my wife and I paddling, I was able to keep up with our friend in her 16' sea kayak. She was not paddling hard and we were, but still quite impressive. I have not tipped it over yet, secondary stability is fantastic (initial is a little sketchy sometimes). I did get thrown off once by an overhanging tree on the Gunnison, not the canoes fault though.
Greg

[ibenick]

delete - failed to read entire post. :crazy:

[Sun Dance]

I've also been thinking about getting a canoe. This will probably be more for family/fishing use on flatwater, like Deer Creek and the drive-ups in the Uintas. Would like to fit me and the wife and a kid in it. Maybe someday take it down stretches of the Provo.

I've been looking at Old Town Discovery 169 for its tracking due to length and better ability to hold three people. My wife's concern is its weight and getting it on/off the car. I'm tall and skinny, she's short and petite.

Thoughts?

Also, is the best place to buy that on KSL? I've seen a few there and they seem reasonably priced.

Sent from my Android

[ibenick]

A new question for all the boat experts out there. I've been thinking that maybe a drift boat would be the way to go. From what I can tell they're way more stable, better tracking, heavier loads and can handle bigger water than a canoe. Obviously the cost is significantly more and you have to drag it on a trailer instead of loading onto a roof rack. But other than those two issues, are there any downsides I'm missing if I were to pickup a drift boat instead of a canoe?