3 injured in Zion National Park flash flood

[UtahAdventureGuide]

3 injured in Zion National Park flash flood

July 25th, 2010 @ 6:28pm

ZION NATIONAL PARK, Utah (AP) -- Zion National Park officials say three men who were swept away by a flash flood in a canyon were able to signal for help and be rescued.

Zion spokesman Ron Terry says the men from the Las Vegas area were hiking in Spry Canyon on Saturday when about an inch of rain fell in less than 30 minutes.

Terry says all three men were washed over a 40-foot drop and two of them went over another 60-foot plunge as the water rushed through the canyon walls. One of the men used a headlamp to signal a distress call and an off-duty park ranger spotted the flashing light.

Two of the men were flown to a hospital in St. George. Terry said their names were not being released and had no word on their condition on Sunday.

(Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[Scott P]

Out of curiousity, what was the flash flood forecast at the time?

[Sombeech]

oldno7 took a photo of the rain that most likely got these guys:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?40108-A-Zion-Storm-Cell

[trackrunner]

Out of curiosity, what was the flash flood forecast at the time?

earlier in the week when I looked I saw a 30% or greater chance of thunderstorms.

this weekend the NWS flash flood potential has been moderate = localized slot canyons . . . may experience flash flooding

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/forecasts/display_special_product_versions.php?sid=SLC&pil=RRA&version=2

[tanya]

What I heard live was flash flood warnings until 7pm.

My 13 year old was wondering what was up with the radio. We were driving at the time when the warnings came out.


It rained really hard... crazy hard for a short time, but its been rain-like weather for a couple of days. Certainly not weather to do a slot canyon in!


Bo stayed home and finished our book today though! YEAH!!! Someone else rescued them.

[Ryebrye]

I blame the backcountry desk!

(Do I get points for being the first to point out that the backcountry desks is flawed in this thread?)

[Bo_Beck]

I blame the backcountry desk!

(Do I get points for being the first to point out that the backcountry desks is flawed in this thread?)

Wow! Did I really read this right? Nah! Just a "pigment" of my imagination!:fitz:

[Ryebrye]

Wow! Did I really read this right? Nah! Just a "pigment" of my imagination!:fitz:

Without more details, I can't fully blame the BC desk. :) The blame I would put on them would be a late start - if they opened the desk an hour or two earlier, took a three hour break during the middle of the day, then kept it open an hour later, I think things would be much improved. (Easier to get earlier starts).

Are there any more details on this incident posted? What part of the canyon they were in? What time they started? ... etc?

[nelsonccc]

It was crazy in Zion this past saturday. We were in Englestead and reached Oderville at about 2. We didn't have a permit to go down so we started hiking up. About halfway to Birch it really started to rain and I mean it really started to rain. Lots of thunder. When we reached Birch there were two rangers (one was really cute) that were trying to get radio contact to see if they should go down orderville. They were told no, so they started to hike out with us. BY the time we reached Wild Wind Hollow Orderville was flowing at about 1cfs. 10 minutes later as we headed up the Orderville entrance it was picking up flow. At the top of the first little ridge you could hear Orderville running down below. It rained on us for about 3 hours total and it got very cold with the wind and thunder.

As we drove down we could see that Keyhole was flowing and then Pine was flowing. On our way out we saw a helicopter come in and hover over the last two canyon rappels of Spry. It was there for our entire drive down the switchbacks and there was a ranger parked at the spry exit. It didn't look good. When we drove over the virgin in was roaring.

Exciting stuff!

[tanya]

Glad you got out of there before it got ugly big guy. :clap::clap:

[Scott Card]

all three men were washed over a 40-foot drop and two of them went over another 60-foot plunge as the water rushed through the canyon walls.
:eek2: And they survived???? :clap:

[ratagonia]

Looking ugly over that way right now. Might be some more Sports Action.

Tom

[tanya]

I would never ever ever ever go near water again if I took that plunge!!!!!


:cry1::hail2thechief::eek2:

[trackrunner]

found this link on the ACA forums. thought I'd cross post. interesting first hand comments that have not been verified.

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/07/three-canyoneers-survive-flash-flood-zion-national-park6313

link to ACA thread
http://canyoneering.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4203

[canyonguru]

come to find out one of the guys in the canyon works with my wife at station casinos here in las vegas. I don't have great details about the flood but he said that it striped off his shoes and shirt, and everything he was wearing. he also said that all he had on when he stood up was his shorts and socks. After the Heli picked up the other two hikers two SAR hiked out with him in the dark. He said it took 2.5 hours get get down to the road. I am not going to release his name due to privacy reasons but it sounds like it was a wild ride.

[Don]

all three men were washed over a 40-foot drop and two of them went over another 60-foot plunge as the water rushed through the canyon walls.


Holy shit! Amazing they survived. I'd love to hear more if someone who knows them can get them to tell the story here...

[blueeyes]

Holy shit! Amazing they survived. I'd love to hear more if someone who knows them can get them to tell the story here... X2 :popcorn:

[trackrunner]

video of the flood language warning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8gNGfDWfBM

[Scott Card]

Well played to find a safe spot when the rain started and not try to out run the thing. :nod::2thumbs:

[Udink]

That video was intense. It would be truly awesome to watch something like that from a safe(ish) vantage point.

[blueeyes]

wow

[Iceaxe]

How in the hell do you get flashed in Spry?!?!?

The canyon has a very small collection area, several hundred safe places to hole up, and it has to rain really hard directly on top of you...

Hint... when it's raining cats and dog on your head find a safe place to sit for the next 30 minutes.... Commonsense people... its not that difficult.

[Pubalz]

:hail2thechief::lol8: Im glad someone said it
How in the hell do you get flashed in Spry?!?!?

The canyon has a very small collection area, several hundred safe places to hole up, and it has to rain really hard directly on top of you...

Hint... when it's raining cats and dog on your head find a safe place to sit for the next 30 minutes.... Commonsense people... its not that difficult.

[nelsonccc]

It looks like where they are watching the flash flood is after the last canyon proper rap and before the lambs tongue rap. Why would they stay so close? That is a wide open canyon at that point and it seems like they could just walk up and away from it. weird.

Have to agree with shane. There are only a few spots in Spry that I don't have escape options. Why would you allow yourself to get caught in one of those spots when it has been cloudy and undoubtly raining long before the flash?

[trackrunner]

part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DcGHHT1T_Q&feature=channel

[Scott Card]

Oh please don't sign your name on that rock. Can you imagine the thread that will start.:haha:

Thanks for posting the videos. Great stuff.

[stefan]

Oh please don't sign your name on that rock. Can you imagine the thread that will start.:haha:
.

:haha:

[ratagonia]

How in the hell do you get flashed in Spry?!?!?

The canyon has a very small collection area, several hundred safe places to hole up, and it has to rain really hard directly on top of you...

Hint... when it's raining cats and dog on your head find a safe place to sit for the next 30 minutes.... Commonsense people... its not that difficult.

Is a lack of generosity your theme this month, Shane?

The storms have been coming in from the north. It is entirely possible that the canyon was already flashing before rain fell upon the people involved. While Spry has a "relatively small" collection zone, it is still quite large, and the intensity of this storm was obviously quite high. From the video, you can see that the canyon "went big" for an extended period of time.

Spry is a "dropper". AND has very little water-holding capacity. And two large collection bowls up top. A flash flood would progress very quickly through the canyon, especially leading into the part where the people got caught, near the end.

In heavy rain, places that people do not usually identify as "watercourses" become watercourses, possibly to the point of being untenable as a place to sit or stand, even allowing for some discomfort. Heavy rain also tends to knock rocks off the walls, further limiting choices of what may constitute safe places.

The parties caught were caught at the final rappel sequence. Having not been flashed in the canyon (perhaps Sonny can weigh in, but he was caught somewhat higher up), from my luxurious armchair, it is hard to speculate accurately as to where safe ground would be easy to reach. Sounds like there were two parties involved, and as many as 8 people. Group dynamics and inter-group dynamics in an emergency situation can contribute to making the situation more difficult still. People may make sensible choices about moving to a "safe place", only to find that the magnitude of the flash overwhelms their safe place, and that moving to a better safe place is no longer possible.

Etc.

Sometimes, even when doing a good job of managing risks, an act of God overwhelms. I consider Spry a pretty-good place to go canyoneering in threatening weather, but disaster is still possible, obviously.

But it's OK Ice, I still value your opinion as representing the pompous ass end of the spectrum.

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

I was being nice.... What's the deal? you need me to interpret for you again? OK... for those who ride the short bus..... and Tom.....

You have to be a retard to get flashed in Spry....


You can always go sit under a rock like the guys in the video. Obviously they were smart enough to figure out what was coming and find safety.

[bshwakr]

__

[ratagonia]

I agree with most of the facts that you presented. I would only add that it's the human element here that I don't fully understand. Many...MANY canyoneers overestimate their skills. But in Spry, there are places in the last 1/8 mile to hide out, including at the dogleg before the last 3 raps. I would consider it a mistake if they overestimated their skills by thinking that they could outrun a flashflood when it started to rain.

It's complicated. How many people were there? Where exactly? Skill levels? Fear levels? How much indecision was there? What was actually happening AT the moment? I doubt they thought they could "outrun a flash flood".

It may or may not have been raining hard when they got hit by the flood. Or for very long. The rain falling on them is not what caused the flash flood - the rain falling REALLY REALLY HARD in the basin above them is what caused the flash flood.

I think all involved would admit that mistakes were made. Without knowing what knowledge they had when key decisions were made, it is hard to say whether we would have made the same decision given the same information.

Thus, assuming that they are "retards" is rather... amazingly ungenerous. As in asinine, of you, Shane.

Tom :moses:

[bshwakr]

__

[nonot]

Our group popped out of Telephone (well ran out) as soon as we started seeing that storm roll in. Telephone faced at the right angle where that could be observed, I don't think the folks in Spry could have seen it coming.

It came in from the east and stayed on the south end of the park. The storm moved in very quick and dropped tons of rain. You couldn't see more than about 100 ft in the places it was really raining hard. In the beginning there wasn't much thunder or lightning, I really didn't hear thunder until the storm would have already soaked Spry and was dousing the campground areas pretty good.

We saw the helicopters working that afternoon and night to get those guys out and to help.

Met SAR member/park ranger Dan Hovanec in Pine Creek 3 days later that essentially confirmed what happened that was described on the nationalparkstraveler website. They climbed up the erosion slope to go get them. Choppers helped ferry them back. Met some other guys in Subway the next day who had gotten trapped in Lodge with no injuries for a few hours, if they weren't where they were when they were they said they would have died as there was almost no warning.

The chance of rain and thunderstorms was posted at 30% on all the park bulletins. There were just a few cloud wisps from 6AM to noon. We started seeing clouds at 1PM and the storm must have hit them about 1:30PM, right as we exited telephone. The same forecast existed for the next day and the day after. Tuesday it was 40%. It rained Saturday and Monday, on Tuesday there were storms in the area but we left before any came close to reaching the park.

[ratagonia]

1:30 PM - wow, that's pretty early!

Tom :moses:

[nonot]

Hmmm, Please note all my times are AZT, you Utah'ns will have to add an hour.

[accadacca]

Wow! Crazy. :eek2:

[nat]

Is a lack of generosity your theme this month, Shane?

The storms have been coming in from the north. It is entirely possible that the canyon was already flashing before rain fell upon the people involved. While Spry has a "relatively small" collection zone, it is still quite large, and the intensity of this storm was obviously quite high. From the video, you can see that the canyon "went big" for an extended period of time.

Spry is a "dropper". AND has very little water-holding capacity. And two large collection bowls up top. A flash flood would progress very quickly through the canyon, especially leading into the part where the people got caught, near the end.

In heavy rain, places that people do not usually identify as "watercourses" become watercourses, possibly to the point of being untenable as a place to sit or stand, even allowing for some discomfort. Heavy rain also tends to knock rocks off the walls, further limiting choices of what may constitute safe places.

The parties caught were caught at the final rappel sequence. Having not been flashed in the canyon (perhaps Sonny can weigh in, but he was caught somewhat higher up), from my luxurious armchair, it is hard to speculate accurately as to where safe ground would be easy to reach. Sounds like there were two parties involved, and as many as 8 people. Group dynamics and inter-group dynamics in an emergency situation can contribute to making the situation more difficult still. People may make sensible choices about moving to a "safe place", only to find that the magnitude of the flash overwhelms their safe place, and that moving to a better safe place is no longer possible.

Etc.

Sometimes, even when doing a good job of managing risks, an act of God overwhelms. I consider Spry a pretty-good place to go canyoneering in threatening weather, but disaster is still possible, obviously.

But it's OK Ice, I still value your opinion as representing the pompous ass end of the spectrum.

Tom :moses:

Wow, Tom being generous to people caught in trouble in a canyon?! Almost implying it was bad luck? That must be a first! :haha:

Nice to see the sympathetic, human side.

Nat

[ratagonia]

Wow, Tom being generous to people caught in trouble in a canyon?! Almost implying it was bad luck? That must be a first! :haha:

Nice to see the sympathetic, human side.

Nat

Thanks Nat. Just goes to show, even old dogs can learn new tricks...

:moses:

[thedesertnomad]

I will say that the storms we have been getting have been short lived, but very intense. I originally thought the same thing... Spry, flashed, WTF?!? I have seen Spry go big before, but nothing like that day. I (and many many others) have always thought about running Keyhole during flashy conditions, but after this past Saturday I may be reconsidering... Horrible audio, water spots all over the camera, and the battery died really quickly, but this is video of Keyhole after 7 minutes of light to moderate rain 2 days ago -



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vv71yBy3j4


Bill

[Cirrus2000]

I will say that the storms we have been getting have been short lived, but very intense. I originally thought the same thing... Spry, flashed, WTF?!? I have seen Spry go big before, but nothing like that day. I (and many many others) have always thought about running Keyhole during flashy conditions, but after this past Saturday I may be reconsidering... Horrible audio, water spots all over the camera, and the battery died really quickly, but this is video of Keyhole after 7 minutes of light to moderate rain 2 days ago -



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vv71yBy3j4


Bill
Damn, that's cool, Bill! You need to keep the battery charged up better... Where exactly was that, just above the culvert/tunnel? Love the flow/flood videos. :2thumbs:

[Scott Card]

7 minutes??? Jeeze Louise.... Scary stuff.

[Jaxx]

Wow these videos really opened my eyes. I had never really worried about spry with its smallish drainage. Glad there aren't any deaths to report. That vid of keyhole is sweet!

[thedesertnomad]

The first 2 segments of the video show the flow coming out of the tunnel under the road (and a large flow FROM the road) and dumping into Clear Creek. The last one looks up Keyhole from the bottom. What you couldn't see due to the water spot was the Canyoneers that just made it out moments before the flash (only to get ticketed by the ranger). The moral of the story is be cool in even the easiest of canyons, oh yeah... and don't poach canyons ;)

... and yes, 7 minutes was all it took. The guys in the canyon stated that about 2-3 minutes into the rain came the flood.

[Wasatch Rebel]

I just wrote an article on flash floods that mentioned this story. I also included a hyperlink to a Bogley thread about the 1997 Antelope Canyon flash flood the drowned 11 people. Here's the article in case you'd like to read it. http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-19954-Salt-Lake-City-Outdoorsman-Examiner~y2010m8d3-Anatomy-of-a-flash-flood-know-conditions-before-you-go (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-19954-Salt-Lake-City-Outdoorsman-Examiner%7Ey2010m8d3-Anatomy-of-a-flash-flood-know-conditions-before-you-go)

[Cirrus2000]

The first 2 segments of the video show the flow coming out of the tunnel under the road (and a large flow FROM the road) and dumping into Clear Creek. The last one looks up Keyhole from the bottom. What you couldn't see due to the water spot was the Canyoneers that just made it out moments before the flash (only to get ticketed by the ranger). The moral of the story is be cool in even the easiest of canyons, oh yeah... and don't poach canyons ;)

... and yes, 7 minutes was all it took. The guys in the canyon stated that about 2-3 minutes into the rain came the flood.

Ah OK - the side stuff was coming from the road - got it now. That's amazing stuff. 7 minutes is incredible. :eek2:

People poach Keyhole? Tough to get permits? Either cheap or protesting the bureaucracy, I guess.

[thedesertnomad]

People poach Keyhole? Tough to get permits? Either cheap or protesting the bureaucracy, I guess.

Actually they have it shut for a couple of weeks due to the construction. It is situated between 2 traffic areas, but they have equipment stored there and it's probably next on the work list.

And it's actually not even the 7 minutes that gets me (because it had been flowing like the video since about 3 minutes into the rain), it was the strength (or lack there of) of the rain. I have been in much much harder rains up here that would result in some astonishing amounts of water (like the 1/2" in less than 30 minutes that took out Spry last week). I do like nature's schedule though. That makes 2 Saturday afternoons in a row for East side flashing. It's usually perfect timing for me going home from work!!! I can't wait til this Sat :cool2:

[The Good Cop]

Someone I, e, know, poached keyhole (without wanting to) due to arriving from the midwest at the visitor center at 2:15PM & the backcountry desk had a sign up that said "out to lunch until 3:30". Seriously? So the only option for the newbies intro-training day was to poach it. Every good intent to do it the way the park requested was there, but... . Not caught though.

[brian_noaaguy]

Hello Everyone,

It's Brian McInerney from the National Weather Service. I came across this post, and thought to provide some info on our role in the event.

We provide a two day, and one day forecast for the potential for flash flooding. It's called the Flash Flood Potential Rating, and for that day when the Canyoneering group was injured, we had a Moderate Flash Flood Potential. Moderate is defined as - Localized slot canyons, dry washes, and small streams may experience flash flooding. Additionally, we issued a flash flood warning for that area at 335pm. From what I understand the lead time on that warning was somewhere around 30 minutes, which is not going to help the people in the slot, as they have no way to receive the warning. We understand this, and that's the reason we came up with the flash flood potential rating. It gives Canyoneers information up to 2 days out to decide on a location. High potential ratings would suggest you go to a less flashy areas. Dry or low may indicate a flashier area may be OK.

This information can be found on our web-site at:

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/slc/flashflood/

We appreciate any comments on the page, or the flash flood program in general. As of Thursday, Aug. 5th, we've issued 39 flash flood warnings. There have been many other small flash floods in the area that we don't know about.

Anyway, I hope everyone remains safe throughout the season.

Brian.

[tanya]

Good post Brian :nod:

[trackrunner]

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/slc/flashflood/


I also like this link NWS LINK (http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/forecasts/display_special_product_versions.php?sid=SLC&pil=RRA&version=0)



We appreciate any comments on the page, or the flash flood program in general. As of Thursday, Aug. 5th, we've issued 39 flash flood warnings. There have been many other small flash floods in the area that we don't know about.

Anyway, I hope everyone remains safe throughout the season.

Brian.

I wonder what your opinion is on the wording of "low" and "moderate." I read a post at another site from one of the individuals in another group caught in this flash and he noted the warning was moderate for the day. Knowing it was moderate they still went and did the canyon.

I remember hearing at presentation given by Bruce Tremper (or maybe it was one of his associates @ the center) of the Utah Avalanche Center that they were considering renaming the middle to lower ratings because they felt individuals were not properly considering the risks because it was only a medium or moderate danger. He also gave statistics that most accidents occurred at the these lesser warning ratings, perhaps validating this argument.

Have you noticed the same thing with NWS flash flood warnings? People rationalizing that it's only a moderate warning. (note I'm not speculating about this group(s) because (1) I don't know their thought process and (2) don't know the individuals).

This flash flood fit the forecast description well for moderate = localized slot canyons may flash flood.

anyways thanks for your work. I check it regularly. I hope they let you away from your computers and models long enough to get outside and play.

Have fun & take car. :2thumbs:

[jiveassmother]

I had some buddies that were on Lady Mountain when the storm hit and they took some photos of the flood coming out of Lodge. Sorry for the quality but shooting photos in the middle of a downpour tends to do that.

[Dayhiker]

Their story made the Las Vegas paper this morning

http://www.lvrj.com/news/-i-thought-i-was-going-to-die--100418964.html

[Scott Card]

Thanks for the link Dayhiker. Yikes. What a story.

[Brian in SLC]

Wow wow wow.

I guess I'm pretty gunshy when it comes to summer and t-showers in Zion(s)...

At 20% chance of rain or thereabouts, I usually pass especially if the trend has been for t-showers. Hard to get a 0% chance especially to align on time availalbe in the summer to canyon. Makes it a tough choice to pull the plug.

Heckuva story!

-Brian in SLC

[Don]

Thanks for the link Dayhiker. Yikes. What a story.

Yeah, thanks for the link. Amazing that they all made it.

[blueeyes]

That is amazing!

[heidchen]

I was in the group of four doing Lodge/Employee Canyon that day - we were the only ones in that canyon and got caught on the last rappel (170' high) when the canyon flashed. Those pictures pretty much sum up what we experienced for 90 minutes as we were anchored halfway down the waterfall hanging on for dear life. The waterfall was about 20' the our left and seemed as if a dam had just burst. We were probably at the only spot in the entire slot where we could have survived. The entire event was surreal - it went from 105 degrees and blue skies to about 45 and hailing within 5-10 minutes.

[accadacca]

Yikes! :eek2:

[Jaxx]

I was in the group of four doing Lodge/Employee Canyon that day - we were the only ones in that canyon and got caught on the last rappel (170' high) when the canyon flashed. Those pictures pretty much sum up what we experienced for 90 minutes as we were anchored halfway down the waterfall hanging on for dear life. The waterfall was about 20' the our left and seemed as if a dam had just burst. We were probably at the only spot in the entire slot where we could have survived. The entire event was surreal - it went from 105 degrees and blue skies to about 45 and hailing within 5-10 minutes.

SCARY!!! Glad to hear you survived. Mabey you could make a movie out of it. It couldn't be any more boring than the movie "Open Water."

[Scott Card]

I was in the group of four doing Lodge/Employee Canyon that day - we were the only ones in that canyon and got caught on the last rappel (170' high) when the canyon flashed. Those pictures pretty much sum up what we experienced for 90 minutes as we were anchored halfway down the waterfall hanging on for dear life. The waterfall was about 20' the our left and seemed as if a dam had just burst. We were probably at the only spot in the entire slot where we could have survived. The entire event was surreal - it went from 105 degrees and blue skies to about 45 and hailing within 5-10 minutes.Yikes is right. Details!!!! We need details. How did you hang/anchor and where? Bird's nest? Tie off? how many of you were there in your party?

[ibenick]

This was featured on the TV show 'I Survived' on the Biography channel tonight. Pretty interesting to see it all described by the three who survived and to a non-canyoneering audience. Not sure if its available online but here's the episode description from the website. I have to say the other half of the episode made the canyoneering stuff seem kind of insignificant. :scared:



“59 - Jason, Dave and Joe/Martin”
A canyoneering trip becomes a terrifying fight for survival when a flash flood launches three men over two massive waterfalls, and a 13-year-old boy is abducted and raped by a serial pedophile before being chained up in a buried box and left to die.

[tanya]

I would love to see that!

[skiclimb3287]

It appears that this episode will re-air on the biography channel June 19th at 6pm and again at 10pm. DVR set! :cool2: