Coyote Buttes North Permit Lottery (The Wave)

[ibenick]

Just received yet another email from the permit lottery saying I don't get to go to Coyote Buttes North. :cry1: That makes about 12 or 13 times I've applied and not been awarded a permit... Any suggestions on some other way to get one? Any first hand knowledge on the chances of getting one in person on a Sunday or Monday? I'd hate to drive all the way down there and get skunked again.

[mattandersao]

When I purchased my permit you had to go to the BLM website on the first day of the month at 12:00 and they opened an alloted amount of permits through the online calendar. They would be reserved in a matter of minutes but at least you had a decent shot at getting a permit. Does the Arizona BLM not use the online calendar any longer?

[asdf]

Just received yet another email from the permit lottery saying I don't get to go to Coyote Buttes North. :cry1: That makes about 12 or 13 times I've applied and not been awarded a permit... Any suggestions on some other way to get one? Any first hand knowledge on the chances of getting one in person on a Sunday or Monday? I'd hate to drive all the way down there and get skunked again.

I was in the same boat a while back then just gave up. I was never able to get a permit on a date that worked for me.
At this point I am about ready to just hike out there and pay the fine if I get caught. It might be worth it if I come home with lots of great photos and star trails.

[remoteman45]

I'll go with you Summit. We'll poach it together

[ibenick]

I'll go with you Summit. We'll poach it together

Me three!! :clap:

[shaggy125]

Or just don't go. That's what I've done. Probably will never go cause it's way too much hassle.

[Win]

I think if you go down there off season you have a good chance. Plan on being there two days, if you miss the first take a
Coyote Buttes South. On the second day they'll give you another ticket in the lottery and off season you should be OK.

Win

[Bo_Beck]

Hmmmmmm!? I've been there maybe a dozen times? Haven't been skunked yet! As Win said....#1 Off Season .....#2 take a look at the weather report; if it's going to be a beautiful day, forget it! If it'll be the worst weather in recent history, you'll be in like Flynn on a same day "walk-in"! Some of the most memorable times and best pictures I've taken have been in a blizzard!

PS: make sure your 4wd is in good shape and have 3 rolls of quarters in the center console for a quick stop at the car-wash on the way home.

[asdf]

"Maybe" never justifies driving 14+ hours

[ibenick]

I think if you go down there off season you have a good chance. Plan on being there two days, if you miss the first take a
Coyote Buttes South. On the second day they'll give you another ticket in the lottery and off season you should be OK.

Win

I think this is a good idea actually. There are a lot of other good contingency plans down there. The question is, what really is the off season? I imagine Spring and Fall would be the busiest? Or summer because everyone is traveling?

[Win]

We tried on the Friday after Thanksgiving and were able to get a walk in for South CB. The girl told us we missed North by 15 minutes! Off season really is Jan/Feb, like Bo said the weather will help in some cases. The time I had North was in March and it was a wet snow mix, only 4 of us out there.

Win

[pazzophoto]

Just lucky I guess. I am from Independence, Missouri and just put in my first application and got two places, one for me and one for my wife.

[ibenick]

:angryfire::cry1::twisted::fitz:

For November? Just curious, what days of the week did you pick?


Just lucky I guess. I am from Independence, Missouri and just put in my first application and got two places, one for me and one for my wife.

[tanya]

And don't go when a snow storm is coming. lol


I hiked out of there with Bo once with a foot of snow on top of my head. :lol8:

[pazzophoto]

We are going on Sept. 26th this year.

[allaurente]

I applied 5x on the lottery for my family of 5. The lottery keys off by the email address instead of the credit card number. Those who never got the permit multiple times probably only entered once. Getting the permit is one thing, having good weather is the other problem. I was planning to get a rain check on mine because it had been raining 2 weeks prior to our hike. Luckily it cleared for a week and started raining again 3 days after our hike. Below is the link to the pictures

www <dot> flickr <dot> com/photos/allaurente/set/72157624752722218

[Rented mule]

Right on, WIN! I go on a cold day in February and go on Friday to the office in KANAB. They have closed the other one for winter. Get there early when they open and you will have a chance to go that day, Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. They are closed on Sat and Sun. So, They will draw officially for SAT and SUN and MON on FRIDAY. But, every time I went, I got to go on Friday. Ya have to be there in person. So, plan on doing something else. tour the animal sanctuary and take Bo and Tanya's red canyon hike. Or go into the Grand Staircase. You should get in. No one was there, either. I love Sundays in Utah. The local religion forbids taking more than fifty paces.....so, I get to play and go to the movies and all that with no crowds. yeehaw!! Ahhh feeedom...

I wish it would snow so hard there that I could ski in? Wouldn't that be a trip? whoah!!

[brettyb]

A few years, I picked up a walkin permit in mid-December with no problem at all. We were staying in Springdale and didn't even get to the office in Kanab until around 11AM. Based on the handful of people we saw, they weren't even close to issuing all the permits that day (or perhaps there were a lot of no shows).

I'd have to imagine the time b/w Thanksgiving and Christmas is one of the quieter times down there.

[CarpeyBiggs]

yep, walk in is a decent option, but not guaranteed. i've been out there once, and scored a walk in for the next day. it's a cool place, but man, the permit sure makes it not really worth it... and it is only getting more popular nowadays.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3444/3369458835_56102f7808_o.jpg

[Rented mule]

right on, C-Biggs!
About the permits? and being there several times and no one hardly showing up?
I heard there are eco extremists who purchase passes just so we can't go.
Just like the ones who buy hunting permits or such to keep the hunters out.
sad.


it has been so so overdone that if you read Kelsey sp? book on Paria he keeps preaching that there are so so many places in the whole matrix that are just as cool. White pockets, and other areas so remote. Germans are still the number one visitors due to the popularity with the pictures they all saw over there across the pond.

the recurring response from every person I have showed it to is how "SMALL"
the wave actually is. It really is a tiny place; thus easy to miss. Nowadays they give you a colored picture handout that really nails it down. And if the wind has been kind and the FREAKIN BLUMS (BLM)haven't knocked down all the cairns, although I don't like cairns, people should be able to find it from the human footprint all the way there and back. I will still go if someone wants to see it who has never been and wants the company. But, I won't go alone, anymore. I am a solo hiker, anyway. People should be able to find their way on their own, nowadays.

[CarpeyBiggs]

yep, i hear ya. if you could camp out there, that place would be a freakin' gold mine for great photos though. the whole area is chocked full of amazing stuff. but the permit thing just makes it so hard to put it all together. not worth the hassle. laurent martres has a good write up on the whole area though. even without the wave, it's pretty amazing stuff.

the eco-terrorist thing has been floating around for quite awhile. i personally don't believe it. but i suppose it's plausible. we saw 15 people the day i was there, which means 5 didn't show up. which also seems plausible. 8 of the people were asian, 2 were german. i think i went out there in early 2007. maybe 2006. hard to remember. probably more people competing for them today.

[trackrunner]

i've also heard rumors that photographers trying to take as many spots as possible so they can get a perfect shot. but just rumors haven't seen any facts.

I do know this, a member of this form was offered a permit from someone not going to use her's for something like $130. I'll let him explain details if he wants to. maybe there is a black market for permits idk.

[rwpontius]

Just adding a bit. I was at The Wave Saturday-a family member was fortunate enough to have drawn a permit and I was fortunate enough to be invited. We were at The Wave first with another group about 20 minutes behind. The second group was from Switzerland. That was the only group I saw until we were leaving when a group of 4 passed speaking what sounded like French. My group did see 2 other people that I didn't see. We saw a number heading in as we were heading out around noon. The point is that the area seems to be developing an international reputation not just Utah/Arizona or even the USA.
RP

[Bo_Beck]

I do know this, a member of this form was offered a permit from someone not going to use her's for something like $130. I'll let him explain details if he wants to. maybe there is a black market for permits idk.

Not a rumor for sure Shaun. Happened to me last fall or summer. A lady came into the Rat one day and walked up to me to ask if I would like a permit for 4 at North Coyote Buttes. She had one and explained that she was unable to use it. I asked what day was it for? She said something like a wednesday I believe. I explained that this would be difficult for me or my co-workers. I had wanted to get my co-workers out there on a day the store was closed i.e. Sunday. Anyway I asked if she would like to post it on our bulletin board? She already had made up a flyer to my surprise, but without cost particulars. I thought I remembered that it was like $5 plus $5 for each person for a total of $25, so I mentioned that she put the price on the flyer. She said.....OH NO! No way I've already had offers for $150 and that she would hold out for the highest bidder! I was flaberghasted! She then went on to explain that she held permits for the next couple months and always applies in advance. I then recognized that she was not a hiker (by her physique) and realized that she was a scalper. After she left the store I called BLM and mentioned to them if they wanted a permit to The Wave to just call her number and make a bid! Anyway I haven't seen her again?

[allaurente]

Friday the 13th hike at the Wave ... We got lucky that the weather cleared up. It had been raining the previous 2 weeks making the road impassable.


www <dot> flickr <dot> com / allaurente / sets / 72157624752722218

[ibenick]

Thanks for posting that allaurente, and welcome to Bogley.

I couldn't find this on the BLM's website, does anyone know when you must be out of there when awarded a day use permit? For example, if I were to go out there in Decmeber could I stay for a couple hours past sunset to take photos? That time of year that would mean I'd still be out before 7 or 8pm. (http://www.bogley.com/forum/member.php?18670-allaurente)

[Sombeech]

Friday the 13th hike at the Wave ... We got lucky that the weather cleared up. It had been raining the previous 2 weeks making the road impassable.


www <dot> flickr <dot> com / allaurente / sets / 72157624752722218

:cool2: Nice photo set. By the way, just 3 more posts and you'll be able to post links. It's a default spammer measure we had to take. Welcome to bogley. :mrgreen:

72157624752722218

[blueeyes]

Nice pictures!

[ibenick]

Haha! After many, many time getting the shaft from the lottery system I just found out that I get to go on a Sunday in December. Woohoo! Hows that for off season?! :headbang:

Do they ever see snow out there? That could make for some good photo ops...

[CarpeyBiggs]

yep, it can snow. but it melts fast usually. except last year...

december could be excellent, but short days. i'd get the route dialed on a gps and head out there 2 hours before sunrise and stay through sunset. make sure you check out the area up behind the crack, and find melody arch. it is amazing.

[ibenick]

yep, it can snow. but it melts fast usually. except last year...

december could be excellent, but short days. i'd get the route dialed on a gps and head out there 2 hours before sunrise and stay through sunset. make sure you check out the area up behind the crack, and find melody arch. it is amazing.

Thanks for the advice. I'm actually kind of excited for the short day aspect of it. It will be nice to be out there for sunrise and sunset without spending so much time.

[ibenick]

It looks like they want me to choose my entry trailhead, Wire Pass or The Notch. Any opinions on which is best and why?

[CarpeyBiggs]

i think wire pass is the traditional entry... but i'm not entirely sure now.

[Win]

The Notch as a TH is interesting. I've never been up to it but there are supposed to be petroglyphs there. Might be a shorter distance to the Wave. A friend of mine has invited my wife and I to go with them Sept 27th, I'll be looking into the Notch entry.

Win

[ibenick]

Does anyone have coordinates for the notch trailhead?

[CarpeyBiggs]

pretty sure it's right at the stateline, just a little bit south. unmarked TH, but IIRC that's where it is.

[oldno7]

Been there with a little snow on the ground.

[Tubedae86]

so.. after reading this over and realizing that im not going to be able to get permits for the times im going to be in that area...my question is. what are the fines if you do get caught hiking through there without a permit? i heard very mixed reviews

[ibenick]

If I ran into someone un-permitted after going through the hell of getting one the fine would be a punch in the face. But that's just me. If I were you I would just try for the in-person lottery, sounds like you have a much better chance of getting one that way.

[Tubedae86]

After reading on a couple other forums. Seems like people have done this before without permits. Although i dont agree with it, the other guys are all pumped about doing it anyways. But how many people show up for the lottery?

There is four in our group, so the probability is very unlikely that we will all get in.

[CarpeyBiggs]

yeah, poaching without a permit is lame. and just makes the system even worse. not cool.

walk ins are possible, just need to go in the off season, like november-early march, and not on weekends.

[Tubedae86]

yea we would be like a early weekday in late october. But obviously wouldnt want to get fined. anyone know how much fines are so i can maybe convince them not to do it. id rather not pay the extra money for no reason.

[Tubedae86]

Alright well i conviinced them to do the lottery. But it seems they may make an attempt anyways if they get it or not. Since we only have one vehicle i might get forced into this half ass trickery either way.

[CarpeyBiggs]

forced?

[ststephen]

forced?

It would be a unique picture of The Wave to see someone being carried into it lashed to pole by hands and feet!

[Tubedae86]

Well maybe not forced. But I won't have anywhere else to go. We will only have one vehicle for the four of us as were driving through. So either way I will be sitting in the for all day or I will have to go with them. Not like hey can go drop me off somewhere else in the middle of the desert. Well I guess they could. Lol

[Felicia]

Well maybe not forced. But I won't have anywhere else to go. We will only have one vehicle for the four of us as were driving through. So either way I will be sitting in the for all day or I will have to go with them. Not like hey can go drop me off somewhere else in the middle of the desert. Well I guess they could. Lol

There is a lot to do out in that area. Drop them off at the trailhead and let them know what time you will be back to pick them up - they can sit an wait. :fitz:

Integrity is what you do when no one is looking.

My last hike was to the Wave. I have been out there three times and I can't wait to get back out there again. It is a beautiful place.

Here is some pictures of my last trip:

http://tinyurl.com/27c3z9b

[erial]

If you all are going to the Wirepass TH, you could always hike the Wirepass narrows and even on into Buckskin. You could also veer south out of Wirepass before it narrows up and traipse about the slickrock and check out Buckskin from above. Per Kelsey, you'd not be in the permit area and could pleasantly enjoy some interesting terrain and be fear-of-fine free.

[Tubedae86]

also does anyone know if mid week in october has any better chances to get in?

[CarpeyBiggs]

versus what? weekend? you never know how it will play out. somedays no one shows up, and you are in. somedays 40 people show up and they do a lottery.

obviously, mid-week will likely have better odds.

[Win]

I was out to Coyote Buttes North on Monday. We talked to a young man from Switzerland that said there were at least 35 people in line for the 10 permits. He got only one and had to leave his GF behind. We got there early and took a lot of photos and were ready to leave when a lot of people showed up, mostly foreign. One fellow passed me and said "Wow, another American". My friend Marcy,that had the permits, ran into a German couple that was in the lottery 5 days and did not get a permit!!

Win

http://www.fototime.com/8216EE5F5E90A7E/orig.jpg
(http://www.fototime.com/8216EE5F5E90A7E/orig.jpg)

[Pelon1]

I just checked online and there are 7 singles for January, if anyone is interested they will probably go quick!!

[TreeHugger]

We were just down there last weekend, thought we'd take a chance.... there were 81 people for 10 permits! Needless to say, we were not that lucky.