Monsoon Season

[oldno7]

Here's a short article describing the dates of our Monsoon Season in the Southwest.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/specialreports/articles/2009/06/02/20090602monsoondatesweb-CR.html

[oldno7]

It has been raining here since around 6:00pm. Off and on.

[Scott Card]

It has been raining here since around 6:00pm. Off and on. For those who don't know where your "here" is, you may consider putting your location under your cool photo avatar thingy. :wink:

[oldno7]

For those who don't know where your "here" is, you may consider putting your location under your cool photo avatar thingy. :wink:

Right here--at my house.............:lol8:

[oldno7]

Is this descriptive enough Scott?

[Scott Card]

Is this descriptive enough Scott?

:lol8::lol8: Perfect! :2thumbs:

[Canyonbug]

Watching the news report yesterday evening I noticed the radar image and the cloud formation while the meteorologist was talking. Monsoon season is certainly starting up here in south eastern Utah. Everyone needs to be conscious of the weather reports when heading out and make sure of your drainage system for your canyons. Be careful out there.

[Jaxx]

I just bring my floaty arm bands and a surf board. Canyon surfing! It's pretty intense but atleast I don't have to take all that time messing with weather reports and dopler!

[mattandersao]

Third afternoon in a row for Hurricane in which the afternoon winds brought in dark clouds! Yesterday the clouds were accompanied by rain! I think monsoon season is here for southwestern Utah as well.

[denaliguide]

when i was teaching flying, i lived in kingman, arizona. i loved the monsoon season. watching the anvil clouds just build all afternoon until the clouds came alive with thunder and lightning. some of the best lightning storms i have ever witnessed. absolutely awesome.

[qedcook]

I've never put too much stock in the NWS flash flood page. Last year I did High Spur late Septmber and the page had 'dry' across the board for two days. By midday it was raining and the areas near the Roost had jumped up to 'moderate' danger. Last weekend I went to Burro Wash. Again, the night before the page read 'dry' across the board, but it rained on us, semi-substantial rain. For those of you who have done Burro you know it's easy to escape in most places, but we waited for half an hour for the rain to stop. Rainfalls started forming on the sides of the canyons.

Point is, between May 15th and October 15th, there is no forecast accurate enough to predict flashfloods with 100% accuracy. Be wise and careful when choosing to go canyoneering during this time of year.

Side note: 98% of all sandstone flashflood deaths have occurred between June 15th and September 15th. Be extra cautious during this time. Maybe take up backpacking.

[Scott P]

Side note: 98% of all sandstone flashflood deaths have occurred between June 15th and September 15th. Be extra cautious during this time. Maybe take up backpacking.


I guess I would somewhat disagree.

The time of year including June and early July is typically the driest time of the year in most of the canyon country. Flash flood season peaks in August and mid-July through mid-September is the worst. Late September and October also have a fair amount of floods, but they are usually less deadly. The single worst flash flood incident in Utah occured after September 15 (Sept 17). [The deadliest slot canyon incident in the canyon country goes to the August disaster in Antelope Canyon, not far from the border].

No one has died in a flash flood in the Utah Canyon Country between early June and mid-July (there have been deaths during that time, but not in SE Utah).

http://www.utahweather.org/UWC/lightning_precipitation/flashflood_deaths.html

The list isn't quite comprehensive though, as it doesn't show the Quandary Canyon flash flood death (which occured in late May).

Northern Arizona also has similar weather/flash flood patterns.

[paul4886]

We are doing a series of canyons in the Flagstaff, Az area the week of July 11. I guess that puts us on the tail end of the low seasonal flash flood risk.

[ratagonia]

I guess I would somewhat disagree.

The time of year including June and early July is typically the driest time of the year in most of the canyon country. Flash flood season peaks in August and mid-July through mid-September is the worst. Late September and October also have a fair amount of floods, but they are usually less deadly. The single worst flash flood incident in Utah occured after September 15 (Sept 17). [The deadliest slot canyon incident in the canyon country goes to the August disaster in Antelope Canyon, not far from the border].

No one has died in a flash flood in the Utah Canyon Country between early June and mid-July (there have been deaths during that time, but not in SE Utah).

http://www.utahweather.org/UWC/lightning_precipitation/flashflood_deaths.html

The list isn't quite comprehensive though, as it doesn't show the Quandary Canyon flash flood death (which occured in late May).

Northern Arizona also has similar weather/flash flood patterns.

What do you know about the Quandary Canyon death? Is it written up anywhere?

Tom

[nat]

What do you know about the Quandary Canyon death? Is it written up anywhere?

Tom

Quandary canyon death? I must have missed that. When? (Of course I remember the miner's hollow/knotted rope death, but that was a keeper pothole).

Nat

[Scott P]

I guess that puts us on the tail end of the low seasonal flash flood risk.

Somewhere between the tail end of the low risk and the beginning of the high risk and every year is different. Hard to predict and caution is always warranted.


What do you know about the Quandary Canyon death? Is it written up anywhere?

It is strange that I can't find it written up anywhere (except your website):

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/swell/quandary.htm

I would also be interested to know how you knew about it and what you know about it.

Anyway, I first knew of the death in December 1998 while on an Andes Mountain trip that I led. One of the members of our group was Leslie Clayton (30 years old at the time), who was the survivor of the Quandary flood. It was her partner that died and she told us about it (though I don't remember the name of the person who died). I know more about the survivor than the person whom died. Apparently they had some dogs with them and the flood happend on a Memorial Day weekend (which is why I quoted late May above) and she was stranded on a ledge for a bit. Beyond that she didn't talk about it all that much.

Besides your website and Leslie, the only person I've ever heard mention the death was Steve Allen whom mentioned that it was already raining when the flood occurred and that he thought they could have reversed the route when it began to rain.

Anyway, what is strange about this is that I can't find the flood mentioned anywhere on the internet (you would think that it some newspaper articles would pop up) and don't know why it isn't listed in the flash flood deaths. What do you know about the death and how did you find out about it?

[ratagonia]

My first trip to the Swell, 'bout 1996ish?, I drove down to Hidden Splendor and poked around a bit, then chose Steve Allen's Knotted Rope Canyon as a hike. As I parked by the side of the road (in July) and prepared to leave, an older couple drove up in a pickup truck, and we had a brief conversation. They said their daughter had died in a flash flood in Quandary, had been stuck on a ledge for awhile, but finally fell off and was swept away. They wanted to hike up there to see the canyon, but were not up for the level of difficulty (however slight) to get to the top of the canyon.

That's it, 100% of what I know. Thanks for confirming that it actually happened.

Tom

[qedcook]

My mistake, I meant to put July - September, not June - September. I did the numbers a while back, 4 or 5 years ago, and fudged a little with the sept 17th. Point I was trying to make was those two months (roughly) are especially dangerous. The NWS site is not always accurate (like myself)

[stefan]

I just bring my floaty arm bands and a surf board. Canyon surfing! It's pretty intense but atleast I don't have to take all that time messing with weather reports and dopler!

don't forget a parachute so you can BASE jump off those pesky little 100-300' exit falls

[Scott Card]

don't forget a parachute so you can BASE jump off those pesky little 100-300' exit falls nah, just need an umbrella and some pixie dust.....:crazy:

[caverinacanyon]

So, here's a question about Zion (maybe I'm referring to the same thing that QEDCook is referring to above??). The current Flash Flood conditions rate Low and Moderate (not yet allowed to post a link, but it's the Flash Flood Potential Rating from NWS).

Given that DRY is probably the most wonderful forecast, and that I'm new to canyoneering in Zion, what conditions would you find acceptable for half-to-full day trips in the next several weeks (today through August 10)?

What other sources would you check out?

Thanks!

[ratagonia]

So, here's a question about Zion (maybe I'm referring to the same thing that QEDCook is referring to above??). The current Flash Flood conditions rate Low and Moderate (not yet allowed to post a link, but it's the Flash Flood Potential Rating from NWS).

Given that DRY is probably the most wonderful forecast, and that I'm new to canyoneering in Zion, what conditions would you find acceptable for half-to-full day trips in the next several weeks (today through August 10)?

What other sources would you check out?

Thanks!

Funny, they've had a lot of thunderstorm activity the last two weeks in Escalante, and here in Zion, we've had a lot of clouds, but zero precip...

There's two sources essential to your personal flash flood forecast: the National Weather Service Forecast (as repeated by numerous commercial sites); and your own two eyes, a-lookin' at the sky.

Are you asking what precip/thunderstorm prediction from the NWS would *I* find acceptable to go do a canyon?

Silly question: it depends. It depends who I was with, how fast they are, how large the group, how early they can get up and going, what canyon we had in mind, how badly THEY wanted to do it, how badly I wanted to do it... acceptable alternatives, etc. etc. etc. There are canyons with minimal exposure to flash flood danger that I would go into with the right group and an early start, in weather some would consider threatening. Heaps, Imlay and Kolob would not be among them. Hard to be more specific. Rain seems like a dream right now, a GOOD dream. So hot down here!!!

Tom