Horse Riders assault female mtn bikers

[Sombeech]

So we went up to the Coldwater Canyon Overlook last night:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?39731-Coldwater-Canyon-overlook

When we were coming down, we met up with 3 horseback riders coming up. We let them pass and noticed they weren't in the friendliest of moods. I warned them that there was a group of hikers with 2 dogs at the top.

Coming past the dome overlook @ 1/3 mile down from the top, we passed 2 female bikers taking a break. We said hi, thought nothing of it, and continued on our way down.

As we were packing up, the 2 girls showed up and asked if we saw the horses, and began to tell us what had happened;

The 2 girls were climbing on their bikes as they heard the horses coming up behind them. They could tell they wanted to pass, so they yelled out "OK, I'll get up here so I can get over to the side and let you pass" (as there was no place to step aside right there.

The first biker turned around to see her friend get hit with the horse's chest as it pushed past her, and the 2nd horseman pulled on the reigns to swing his horse's HEAD into the biker's shoulder!

That's right, 2 different horses intentionally pushed over this female biker because there wasn't room enough to let her step off the trail.

There wasn't a "sorry" mentioned. They just pushed past. The only words spoken by the first biker after she saw her friend were some rightful insults, and afterwards the horse riders replied "We have the right of way".

It's true that horses have the right of way to everybody, but this only means the other party should yield, not that one party has the right to assault the other as a means of staying on the trail.

Please take note that this is the story I heard directly from the victim, so I may not have some of the verbatim correct.

So as they told us this story, some deputies showed up, as they had been called right after this happened.

We waited around for the horses to get back to the trailhead just to see how it went. We could see one of the riders getting a little "mouthy" with the officer, but we just decided to leave as we assumed nothing much would come of it. It turns out I knew one of the officers from school. In fact he had ridden horses up this very trail.


A side note, I am somewhat of a horseman myself, growing up with them and riding on various trails.

Then I remembered I had caught the horses on my helmetcam. So if you see these 3 jerks around on their horses, beware.
It's inaudible, but when asked "how's it goin'?" the lady up front mumbles "it's goin'"
So they were obviously in a bad mood or just hated bikers altogether. We were a bit worried about the hikers up top who had one child on a bike. I hope they didn't give them any problems.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9d1d9nj010


Waiting around to see what happens...


Yeah, they know something's up... They even tried to take another trail when they saw the cops, but it was blocked.

34871

34872


It turns out this is a homemade sign, see the red tape? Besides, this sign doesn't apply to the trail we were on, it's on the fork right from the parking lot.

34873

[asdf]

:eek2: seriously?

[ibenick]

That's some serious douchebaggery. Hope they get charged.:asshat:

[Sombeech]

When asked if she wanted to press charges by the officer, I was hoping she would say yes, but she said that she was (I forget... but something to do with the court systems) and that she was tired of being in and out of court with work. She said she didn't want to go through all of that but then she emphasized "They CANNOT get away with this!"

She'll get a phone call, but I hope something came of this. We felt really bad for them.

[Sombeech]

I just felt so bad as she would explain it, "I can't believe they ran me over with their horse, and then the other one hit me with it's head!" as she would hold her shoulder where the jerk yanked the horse's head into her.

We waited around because Mark and I were wanting to give them a little talk when they came back on their horses, but when the cops showed up it was a good and bad thing for us if you know what I mean. I'd hate to be taken to jail by a cop I went to school with.

[tallsteve]

I hope they don't get away with it. They must have had run-ins with bikers before. As a side note, the proper way to let horses pass (either direction) is to dismount, remove your helmet, and step off the DOWNHILL side of the trail, all the while talking to the rider. If a horse gets spooked or has to get off the trail, it's better and safer for them to move uphill vs. down. Just some things I've learned from my time working with the Forest Service folks. I'll again emphasize how well my handlebar-attached bear bell works. I came across 2 separate equestrians last night and both thanked me 1) for being able to hear me coming (bell), 2) for moving off the trail properly.

[blueeyes]

:eek2: I am glad it wasn't me. I get mouthy enough with downhill bikers that have tried to pass me going at break neck speeds. I have passed many a horsemen on that trail and never had a problem they were all very friendly. Someone pissed in their oats that morning.

[Sombeech]

As a side note, the proper way to let horses pass (either direction) is to dismount, remove your helmet, and step off the DOWNHILL side of the trail, all the while talking to the rider.

Good points

[accadacca]

Wow! Run over by a horse. Sounds like some real dickheads! I would be pissed! :angryfire:

[JONBOYLEMON]

Why are you taking off your helmet???

[blueeyes]

Why are you taking off your helmet???

Keep from spooking the horse.

[tallsteve]

Wow! Run over by a horse. Sounds like some real dickheads! I would be pissed! :angryfire:

Apparently, with your helmet on, horses can't tell what you are exactly and they can spook.

[Sombeech]

You don't wanna see what happens when I get spooked.... :twisted:

[live2ride]

bunch of B.S, hopefully they get a talkin to. Sounds like the whole thing could have been prevented with just a little courtesey. I bet it would have went down a little different had it been 2 male bikers they were intimidating.

[cachehiker]

Why are you taking off your helmet???
Keep from spooking the horse.

Especially true if you're wearing a full face helmet and/or body armor. Such freakin getups can get to looking pretty alien atop an 8" travel bike.


I bet it would have went down a little different had it been 2 male bikers they were intimidating.

Wouldn't be surprised to find some guys willing to get kicked or stomped in exchange for seeing the rider get thrown.

I hope they decide to press charges. I doubt the courts would have much sympathy for the knuckle-draggin, terracotta-toothed, subliterate rednecks on horseback.

It would serve them right to be sentenced to a couple of hundred hours of community service building and maintaining trails for mountain bikes. :lol8:

[SprungShoulders]

As a side note, the proper way to let horses pass (either direction) is to dismount, remove your helmet, and step off the DOWNHILL side of the trail, all the while talking to the rider. If a horse gets spooked or has to get off the trail, it's better and safer for them to move uphill vs. down. Just some things I've learned from my time working with the Forest Service folks.If you're riding a prey animal for fun, on a trail where there is a high likelihood of encountering two-wheeled riders, then it is the equestrian's responsibility to have chosen a mount trained, seasoned and calm enough to deal with potentially "spooky" things.

Just as we're expected to not be flying about the mountain out of control, so too is it the responsibility of a horse person to ride the appropriate animal for the circumstances which they are likely to encounter during that particular ride. If you're on an animal known to be skittish around bikes, then go ride somewhere where bikes aren't allowed. There are a LOT of places like that...and the number is growing, unfortunately... Or better yet, pick another horse if you just HAVE to be on a popular MTB trail.

Sure, as an MTB'er, if you happen upon a nervous horse -- and equally nervous rider -- then take the appropriate measures so nobody gets hurt. But partially disrobing and stepping off the edge of a cliff every time you run across Scout on the trail is stupid. When I rode years ago I knew my horse hated ATV's and sprinklers (the big kind, in farm fields). So I avoided both when I could, and if I did come upon either then I took appropriate, proactive steps so I didn't get bucked on my head. To lay the entire onus of proper MTB/horse encounter etiquette on the MTB'er is cr@p, IMHO.

If people would simply be more situationally aware, and take considerate, proactive measures to preserve the rights and safety of all parties involved in an encounter, then we'd have far fewer finger-pointing (and, in a state where you can get a concealed carry permit out of a gumball machine, gun slingin') pissing matches in the woods.

...And bear bells do indeed work wonders. I equip myself and my dog each with one, and it cuts down on "surprise encounters" considerably. Except with moose. You're usually climbing higher in the tree as you think about what, exactly, you did to piss one off... :roll:

Cheers.

[accadacca]

But partially disrobing and stepping off the edge of a cliff every time you run across Scout on the trail is stupid.
:roflol:

[StudChild]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8cDfnQD0ws

I like Mongo's way of dealing with Horse Riders.:2thumbs:

[fourtycal]

I rounded a corner to see horses 50 feet ahead this last weekend, about 5 feet ahead was a good place for me to get off the trail... by the time I made that 5 feet this lady on her horse (who had stopped as soon as she saw me too) was screaming at me that they had the right away. I didn't respond because by then I was off my bike waiting. as she passed she was lecturing me about riding etiquette, I told her to calm down and she apologized saying several riders had ran into them that trip without yielding. Her horse was about as skiddish as they come as well. The other 200 horseback riders I passed that day got off the trail for me, urged me on and were overly nice (like most horsemen I encounter).
:bud:
Yellow fork rocks horse crap!

[StudChild]

:bud:
Yellow fork rocks horse crap!

So does Green Canyon!

[crankshank]

I like to think that I am semi-cautious and aware of my surroundings, but $hit can happen unexpectedly to anyone. I have had numerous occasions where I was hurtling down a sweet piece of trail only to notice hikers or bikers just ahead of me. After I slide to a halt and the dust clears, pleasantries are usually exchanged. With horses it has almost always been different. Too bad there aren't more people that ride both MTBs and horses. I assume most of the equestrians I have encountered on the trail have been the same people that tried to run me over with their F-350 as I peddle through Sugarhouse.

If I couldn't control my bike (or be willing to accept the consequences of a fall) I wouldn't ride the trail. I know that I am a vindictive, smart-ass, bastard that only antagonizes bad situations like this and makes them worse. I'd rather just avoid the situation. That's why I refuse to ride Corner Canyon.

[accadacca]

Corner canyon? I've never seen a harssss on that one...

[tallsteve]

But partially disrobing and stepping off the edge of a cliff every time you run across Scout on the trail is stupid.

I agree with most everything you said except this statement shows the attitude that's part of the problem. What's the big deal about stopping for a few seconds to let them by? Do you glue your helmet to your head before you ride? Is it that hard to remove? Horses still have the right of way regardless of if the animal is jittery or not. Again, what's the big deal? I run across equestrians maybe once out of every three rides. So I lose a few seconds off my ride time (and I'm one that likes to measure my ride times/increases in performance) ((OK, that just sounded like a Viagra commercial)).

[Deathcricket]

I like Mongo's way of dealing with Horse Riders.:2thumbs:

You beat me to it! But i was going to use Conan's instead. :lol8:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9EGPNbTaOI

[accadacca]

You beat me to it! But i was going to use Conan's instead. :lol8:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9EGPNbTaOI
:roflol:

[Scott P]

Horses do get spooked.

I imagine they might have been spooked rather than agressive.

Anyway on one of the trails around Fruita (CO), we moved off trail well in advance to let some horses pass. We had a baby stroller with us. One of the horses was extremely spooked by the stroller and it was rearing up and bucking. It acted like it was going to stomp the stroller (with baby in it). It scared both us and the riders, but everything turned out OK.

[blueeyes]

Horses do get spooked.

I imagine they might have been spooked rather than agressive.

Anyway on one of the trails around Fruita (CO), we moved off trail well in advance to let some horses pass. We had a baby stroller with us. One of the horses was extremely spooked by the stroller and it was rearing up and bucking. It acted like it was going to stomp the stroller (with baby in it). It scared both us and the riders, but everything turned out OK.

I don't care how sweet the horse is, how well trained, they have a mind of their own. I will dismount my bike and get off the trail and let them pass first. Anyone can have a bad day including the most well mannered horse.

Glad the horse didn't stomp the stroller. The mother in me cringes at this story.

[Sombeech]

My horse hated it when I would wear my yellow rain poncho. It would get a little jumpy every time I moved my arms and it would hear the "crinkle" of the plastic right behind it's head, and also this strange yellow mass sitting on top of it's back. It took me a couple of rides in the rain to figure it out.

[SprungShoulders]

I agree with most everything you said except this statement shows the attitude that's part of the problem. What's the big deal about stopping for a few seconds to let them by? Do you glue your helmet to your head before you ride? Is it that hard to remove? Horses still have the right of way regardless of if the animal is jittery or not. Again, what's the big deal? I run across equestrians maybe once out of every three rides. So I lose a few seconds off my ride time (and I'm one that likes to measure my ride times/increases in performance) ((OK, that just sounded like a Viagra commercial)).
I never said I don't yield to let a horse and rider by. Indeed, having ridden both types of trail transportation fairly extensively, I'm probably more sensitive to horse mannerisms than most pedal hounds. Given that horses are generally spooked by large, "flappy" things -- which is pretty much the definition of a cowboy hat -- an open-face trail helmet shouldn't cause so much as a snort of annoyance from an equine. Generally, removing your sunglasses is enough to reassure a horse. If they can see your eyes then for most that's enough. They recognize you as human (well, unless you're Dick Cheney...), not some scary, faceless predator...

Full-face helmets are different; I never ride one off the lifts or bike-only DH shuttles, though, so it's a non-issue. But if you do choose to wear the Darth Vader helm regularly, then I agree that removing it will indeed help reduce potential causes of panic on the part of the horse.

Stepping off the down-slope side of a trail is also a problematic suggestion, IMHO. I understand the reasoning, but in doing so (if it's even possible) you're increasing the chance that, if the horse DOES spook as it passes, you are in a very vulnerable and potentially dangerous position. It doesn't take much physical contact from an 800# animal to knock you off the mountain, or cause other contact trauma.

I really enjoy horses in general, and respect them on the trail. But like "bad dogs", "bad" horses are generally the product of a$shat riders. Also, the "rule" that all things yield to horses on-trail has led some riders to think that anyone on their trail is purposefully disturbing their communion with nature, and as such needs to bend to their will immediately and unconditionally. Yes, this is a small minority of equestrians, but I have encountered them. Their sense of entitlement is palpable...and enough to make you want to smack their mount on the rump as they pass (although it's the human who deserves the a$s-kicking retribution).

Ride happy. :cool2:

[tallsteve]

Good to know about the helmets. I'm just stating what the Forest Service guys have told me is proper and the best thing to do. I will continue to remove mine if it even remotely helps or contributes to a feeling of good will. I serve on 2 different Forest committees (1 local and 1 Uintah-Wasatch-Cache Forest-wide) and talk to the horse guys about this allot. They much appreciate the etiquette.
Obviously in some instances it would be dangerous to step off the downhill side. I shall revise my statement to read "if it is safe to do so".

[Sombeech]

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/bollyslide.gif

[Sombeech]

We'll be riding this trail again tonight. Maybe these will even the playing field. :haha:

35083

[accadacca]

Yep. Or a pack of these could come in handy. :naughty:

35084

[chromehead58]

You know for the most part I have found that most people are great up on the trail..I am not a big horse fan, but to each their own. However, what this point really brings up the how mountain bikes yield to everything. I really wish who ever is charge of this concept would rethink it. As for these two horse people, would love to get in a shoving match with them. I think things would have turned out a little differnt than they had...judasssttttt

[derangedfox69]

Someone from a horse forum posted about this, and after reading the topic, I really felt I had to respond.

As an avid horseback rider (trails), it really irks me to hear this kind of thing happening. I have had unbelieveable problems with quads and snowmobiles, but I have yet to encounter a problem with mountain bikers, aside from them occasionally using trails they aren't supposed to (we have specific horse trails). However, I haven't said anything yet because on both occasions, they stopped their bikes, let my unsure 3 year old in training take a good look, and I thanked them profusely. Quite honestly, as long as they aren't being dinks, I welcome it because my horses need to be accustomed to everything.

To whoever posted about getting off, taking the helmet off, etc. you are in my deepest heartfelt thanks for having such great consideration. I also find it absolutely ridiculous that equestrians are so stuck on themselves they deem it their personal right to take a half-trained animal into public and expect everyone to cater to them. I have never in my life heard of a horse spooking at a helmet - if they're spooking, it's because of the bike. Horseback riders WEAR helmets - they're completely used to seeing them all the time! That being said, I would never in my right MIND take a horse onto the multi-use trails that wasn't well trained enough that a biker COULD zoom past me with nothing happening. Same with quads, dirt bikes and snowmobiles - I do not think it's fair whatsoever to ask you to stop and turn your machine off, it's just appreciated if you could slow down a bit as is courtesy when doing any sort of passing! I've HAD jerk offs on snowmobiles pass me at 100kmh on a narrow trail, and my horse certainly doesn't like it, but she'll handle it - she's been well trained to trust MY decisions and MY ability to keep us safe.

Past encounters is a piss poor excuse to vent your anger on others - I've had unimagineable and atrocious acts commited upon me and my horse by idiots on snowmobiles and quads (delibrately trying to make my horse spook and make me fall) and I wouldn't DREAM of trying to make my horse kick the ONE person who was nice enough to stop for me!

There's bad blood on both sides, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you're riding, it's about your personality - a menace is a menace regardless of what his/her choice of transport is! I sincerely hope something is done to these inconsiderate goons who ruin it for the rest of us, and a HUGE thank you to each and every one of you who take the time to understand a horse is a flight animal and just SLOWING DOWN is greatly appreciated by MOST of us! :clap:

[Painted Horse]

I ride that trail several times each summer. It's close to home, Cooler than the valley, you occassionally see some deer or moose. I really hate to hear about that kind of stuff this close to home. I hope it was not a deliberate action, but rather, just somebody not paying attention or rather just being careless. Not that is a valid excuse. But a lessor evil than somebody intentionally wanting to hurt somebody.

I've been riding horses in this area long before mountain bikes. I've watched as trails are closed to horses. And that's Snow Basin's right, since they own the land, they can cater to whom they choose. It's part of the growth of Utah. Todays paper says Davis County now has more than 307,000 people. I remember when the whole state of Utah didn't have 300,000 people. We all have to adjust.

My brother was up from Vegas for the holiday weekend. I took him and his two boys up and actually rode that trail yesterday. We had a biker overtake us from behind. He stopped and waited. I got my horse off the trail to make room for him. But my brothers boys, not being horse savey, just couldn't get their horses to leave the trail. The horses are well trained, not spooked by the bike, But being lazy, saw no need to wander off into the brush to make it easy for the bike to pass. I asked the rider if he wanted me to get off my horse and move the other horses, or if he could just squeeze past. I assured him the horses wouldn't care. And thats what he did.

Last summer we were just about back to the parking area. On the low spot on the two track between the Maples and parking area. Two bikers came flying down the trail and wanting to maintain their speed so they didn't have to work so hard at the small climb to the parking lot, began screaming at us to get out of their way. It was almost dark, They came flying by from behind us at full speed, Screaming as loud as they could. I guess I could have been upset at their actions. But the horses got spooked and excited, so we let them run to burn off some of that energy. As the bikers hit the uphill grade, lost their speed and had to start working hard at the climb, the horses caught up with them with a thundering gallop. We scared the Bejeebers out of the riders, who had no idea what was coming crashing out of the woods after them. The point being, that if two intelligent humans can be scared by something suddenly appearing from behind, So much easier for a prey animal to become spooked. Its not always that the horses are not trained. Any horse in a certain circumstance can spook and do things that might hurt the rider, or somebody standing nearby.

As far as helmets. I see no need for you to remove them. Horses see riders with helmets. I think my horses are more afraid of passing the the person standing as a statue than they are of somebody talking to me, wiping the sweat off, taking a drink. Just doing normal stuff. Tell the owner what a beautiful horse he has and I'll tell you what a neat bike you have, just talk. The horses will sense that everybody is comfortable and not worry about the chance encounters along the trail.

That's interesting that the Forest Service recommends you stand on the down hill side. I actually prefer you stand on the uphill side of the trail. Horse by nature always walk on the outside edge of the trail. It drives me crazy to be hanging out in space over cliffs because my horse wants to walk the edge. It's just what horses do. I'd really feel bad if my horse crowded you standing and caused you to loose your balance and tumble down a hill because you were downhill from me. If you are uphill from me, I probably won't crowd you as bad, because the horse likes the outside edge of the trail, But if I did bump you, you might sit down on the hill behind you, vs a bad tumble off a steep downhill side.

I appreciate the courtesy that most bikers show us on the trails. Because I'm on a horse, I do not believe I have ultimate domain. There is many a time that I see a biker coming and I just get off the trail and motion for them to keep right on coming. No need for them to loose their momentum, when it's easy for me to step off the trail.

[Writeabove]

While training for a 25K trail run on a wide dirt road horse riders trotted from the other way demanded I stop running. I clicked off my stop watch and the horse rider said, "I don't care about your time, these horses don't like joggers." I walked past them and told them to "have a nice day."