Gulf Oil Spill - 37 days later

[Sombeech]

Still no sign of slowing down, what's the word? Last I heard they were going to attempt to put golf balls and concrete down there, with little confidence. :ne_nau:

[stefan]

what's the word?

drill baby drill :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

oh wait ... that's 3

[asdf]

people should be going to prison for this

[uintahiker]

people should be going to prison for this

And THAT my friend is why so many CEOs of large companies get paid so much. They get held personally liable for things that they have very little involvement with. I mean, you'd have to pay me a huge salary as well if I were to take on that much risk...

[Sombeech]

And THAT my friend is why so many CEOs of large companies get paid so much. They get held personally liable for things that they have very little involvement with. I mean, you'd have to pay me a huge salary as well if I were to take on that much risk...

This is true. Obama wants them to make the average salary, but take on all of the liability. Because rich people are just bad, even though he made at least $5 mil last year.

[shlingdawg]

Shit happens. It sucks, but it happens. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be responsible for their actions, but pointing fingers doesn't help either. On one hand I hear people cursing BP for the accident and the next minute the same people are fueling their vehicles with their product.

[Sombeech]

Maybe this is why Obama hasn't visited the area much, he doesn't want to use their fuel to get there. :haha:

[bbennett]

I work pretty close to the accident site for the Deepwater Horizon (about 15 miles away). I think I saw some of the worst areas for oil concentration on the water. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. There are a lot of sheens here and there but I was expecting to see endless miles of black upon black. There are areas that are obviously worse that others, but still, not as bad as I was expecting it to be.
I saw one sheen as it was coming into contact with land (an area known as South Pass at the mouth of the Mississippi River). There was me at around 3,000' and two low level Coast Guard planes circling and dropping dispersant, but no booms in the water or even personnel at the location itself. I got the impression that either people aren't taking it that seriously or maybe it wasn't as bad as they have been saying it is.
There's been a lot of discussion on the news about the shrimpers losing their livelihood and the economic impact that it will have on small fishery towns like Venice. I can tell you from my personal experience with Venice and some shrimp boat captains that the town is booming right now BECAUSE of this spill.
BP is paying (local only) shrimp boats no less than $1,600 per day to drive around with oil booms and try to capture some of the oil. From what I understand, that's around 3x what the boats typically make and their not dependant on what they catch. Also, they have a mandatory meeting every evening so they're only out on the water for 8 hours per day. Throughout the two weeks that I was down there, I didn't see a shrimp boat doing a damn thing other than cruising around with the booms out of the water. One boat captain that I talked to said that he hopes this lasts for years. The stores and restaurants are raking it in as well due to all of the press, contractors, and government employees.
I understand that this economic upturn is temporary but if there's one thing south Louisianans’ aren't afraid of, it's reaching their hands out for government subsidies, milking it for as long as possible, and then complaining that nobody did anything for them. There's still a bunch of FEMA trailers down there and yards that have yet to be cleaned up since Katrina. That was what... 5 years ago? Clean up your yard and get rid of that ugly trailer in front of the larger trailer that you call a home. It’s like a totally different country down there full of people who don’t give a shit about anything other than the Saints, LSU, Mardi Gras, and money (preferably without having to work for it).
Honestly, I don't know if BP will be able to recover from this. I’m sure that there’s a lot of people who hope that they don’t. Add the cost of trying to stop the flow, the clean-up, all of the inevitable lawsuits, and the $700,000,000 rig that they lost, and it paints a very grim future for even this giant among giants.
Like Shlingdog said; "On one hand I hear people cursing BP for the accident and the next minute the same people are fueling their vehicles with their product.". But it's not just gas. How much petroleum based products do we depend on everyday? How many petroleum based products are in the computer that you're looking at right now? Did you know that at the very moment of the explosion, they were having a party on the rig to celebrate 7 years free of accidents? Ironic, huh? Shit happens. Really bad shit happens sometimes. This is the cost of our comforts. I love a steak but I don’t want to see them kill the cow.
I hope that they get the well killed very soon and the environmental impact is as small as possible. If BP cut corners, I hope that it is proven and the are held accountable. I hope that they can come up with some significant improvements toward safety and disaster prevention. Aside from that, what can we do but watch the cow die?

[JP]

drill baby drill
Absolutely, put some bits up in ANWR as well :lol8: Your vision of a carbon free America is nothing but a wet dream :mrgreen:

[stefan]

Shit happens. It sucks, but it happens. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be responsible for their actions, but pointing fingers doesn't help either. On one hand I hear people cursing BP for the accident and the next minute the same people are fueling their vehicles with their product.


huh?

[stefan]

If BP cut corners, I hope that it is proven and the are held accountable. I hope that they can come up with some significant improvements toward safety and disaster prevention. Aside from that, what can we do but watch the cow die?

sorry this comment is just unacceptable today, IMO.

[stefan]

Obama wants them to make the average salary, but take on all of the liability.

says who?

[uintahiker]

says who?

Obama.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/04/eveningnews/main4776398.shtml

[bbennett]

sorry this comment is just unacceptable today, IMO.

Why?

[Reedus]

Because Stefan go some oily sand in his vagina apparently...
Why?

[stefan]

Why?

mistakes and problems of this magnitude are utterly unacceptable today.

held accountable after the fact is a terrible mentality allowing for these problems to occur in the first place. i don't care how much it hurts an oil company's bottom line, they need to (and be forced to) go the extra distance to ensure distasters like this NEVER happen and we as a society need to demand this of our companies and government.

how many said that offshore drilling was perfectly secure ... OBVIOUSLY, that assertion couldn't be further from the truth.

[bbennett]

mistakes and problems of this magnitude are utterly unacceptable today.

held accountable after the fact is a terrible mentality allowing for these problems to occur in the first place. i don't care how much it hurts an oil company's bottom line, they need to (and be forced to) go the extra distance to ensure distasters like this NEVER happen and we as a society need to demand this of our companies and government.

how many said that offshore drilling was perfectly secure ... OBVIOUSLY, that assertion couldn't be further from the truth.

So how does this make my comment unacceptable? Let's see; "If BP cut corners, I hope that it is proven and they are held accountable." Whoa, whoa, wait a minute... what was I thinking? That statement is totally ****ed up! :roll:
Where's the douche bag emoticon?

[stefan]

i suppose to have made the point better, i should have added this part of your original post


Shit happens. Really bad shit happens sometimes. This is the cost of our comforts.in this day and age, it's an unacceptable cost and shit should never happen was the point. this is what our capitalistic society should be demanding from our companies. if they're in this business, ensuring that disasters like this never happen should be of utmost importance, above and beyond making a profit. if they can't run their business responsibly, then they don't deserve to be making a profit.

soft language and soft action on powerful companies is how we ensure nothing changes/improves in a substantial or meaningful way. punishing after the fact is being soft. complacency is clearly a disease in our society and profits are weighed too heavily over issues that are equal if not more important.

[JP]

7 years free of accidents? Ironic, huh? Shit happens. Really bad shit happens sometimes. This is the cost of our comforts.

If BP cut corners, I hope that it is proven and the are held accountable. I hope that they can come up with some significant improvements toward safety and disaster prevention. Aside from that, what can we do but watch the cow die?
Agreed :wink: Accidents unfortunately do happen, that's the cost of doing any business. Some businesses have more risk than others. Nothing is a guarantee and the unfortunate part, money talks. Sometimes the all mighty dollar trumps things like safety. It shouldn't happen, but people will be people. If there was some missed guidelines on the part of BP, the laws on the books will apply. It doesn't rewrite the accident, we just hope people making the decisions in the future will rethink taking shortcuts for the quick buck. One thing missed in all of this are the workers on the rig that perished that night. That loss of life seems to be lost in a political debate. My heart goes out for the families that do not have fathers and or mothers never coming home again. That last time a family member talked with their brother and or sister. It's shame that those dedicated employees have been swept under the rug.

[Sombeech]

It's unfortunate that the loss of human life is not as important as spilled oil.

[Wasatch Rebel]

So, I'm no geophysics expert, but why can't they drill another hole that taps the same oil field, siphon it off there and relieve the pressure coming from the original hole? Perhaps then it would be easier to get a cap on the leak.

[denaliguide]

in
So, I'm no geophysics expert, but why can't they drill another hole that taps the same oil field, siphon it off there and relieve the pressure coming from the original hole? Perhaps then it would be easier to get a cap on the leak.

that was one of the potential solutions. however, the thought was it would have taken too long for it to be practicable when the spill first happened. in good ol hindsight, they should have been doing just that, while they were trying the other ideas that did not work. let's hope the heavy mud being pumped in will work.

[snccoulter]

Hindsight is always 2020 to bad people cant see that good in the first place..

[dbaxter]

It's unfortunate that the loss of human life is not as important as spilled oil.
Thanks for bringing this up. Really. When it's all said and done, what else matters?

[JP]

That was my point exactly.

[Sombeech]

34459

[DOSS]

http://www.ifitwasmyhome.com/#loc=Midvale%2C+UT%2C+USA&lat=40.615&lng=-111.891&x=-111.891&y=40.615&z=7

[Scott P]

Obama wants them to make the average salary, but take on all of the liability.

says who?

Obama.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4776398.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/04/eveningnews/main4776398.shtml)


$500,000 is not an average salary. Plus that was only for companies that were bailed out with tax dollars.

[Sombeech]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSujCHfvTb0

[accadacca]

34539

[geobiker]

I work pretty close to the accident site for the Deepwater Horizon (about 15 miles away). I think I saw some of the worst areas for oil concentration on the water. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. There are a lot of sheens here and there but I was expecting to see endless miles of black upon black. There are areas that are obviously worse that others, but still, not as bad as I was expecting it to be.
I saw one sheen as it was coming into contact with land (an area known as South Pass at the mouth of the Mississippi River). There was me at around 3,000' and two low level Coast Guard planes circling and dropping dispersant, but no booms in the water or even personnel at the location itself. I got the impression that either people aren't taking it that seriously or maybe it wasn't as bad as they have been saying it is.
Did you know that at the very moment of the explosion, they were having a party on the rig to celebrate 7 years free of accidents? Ironic, huh? Shit happens. Really bad shit happens sometimes. This is the cost of our comforts. I love a steak but I don’t want to see them kill the cow.
I hope that they get the well killed very soon and the environmental impact is as small as possible. If BP cut corners, I hope that it is proven and the are held accountable. I hope that they can come up with some significant improvements toward safety and disaster prevention. Aside from that, what can we do but watch the cow die?

Part of the problem with this leak is that much of the oil is not coming to the surface due to the deep well depths and the use of dispersants so from the air you may not see as much impact. However, the plume is still there and is hitting the major ocean current heading toward Florida. I wonder if it will dilute as it moves that way. It may not since its still being fed by the well. This is much more oil already than the Exxon Valdez. I am concerned for the fact that this could have a major impact on sealife and fisheries which people depend on for livelihood and food.

The safety party that was going on on the rig was by the owner of the drill platform Transocean. It was BP contracting Transocean and telling them to cut corners to finish the well that led to this disaster. A major argument was going on aboard the rig between the two companies about how to finish the well. BP has a deplorable safety record over the last several years including a refinery explosion in 2005 which killed 15 workers.

I am concerned about this spill due to the fact that we do need oil in modern society and we depend on oil companies to collect oil in a safe and sustainable manner. BP had a responsibility to take every measure possible to prevent something like this and they failed. The consequences are in human lives and livelihoods, an ecosystem, and possibly our trust in oil companies to do the right thing for the environment which affects us all.

[Sombeech]

34796

[mattandersao]

Does drawing with England in the World Cup count as America's move?

[trackrunner]

Does drawing with England in the World Cup count as America's move?

it could have been, until England had a draw with Algeria. Imagine that, England not as good at football as they think they are.

[Jaxx]

it could have been, until England had a draw with Algeria. Imagine that, England not as good at football that they think they are.

:roflol::roflol::roflol:

[Iceaxe]

England not as good at football that they think they are.

OK.... let's get something straight here.... "Football" is a viscous game played by the best athletes in the US of A. Soccer is a game played by guys in the US who are 5'9" with a little speed that have names like Nicholas and Jonathan.

[trackrunner]

Association football is a sport where the ball is advanced with the feet. Pointball AKA gridiron football is a sport where the ball is advanced by a throw or carry and run. Feet are only used in pointball for change of possession, extra point, and to finish off a game winning drive by a player not consider part of the team except when he drills the game winner and he grew up playing association football.

Now for gridiron being “viscous” game; it’s a contact sport that has pads, cups, and helmets. Rugby code football is a contact sport that has none of that. And in Rugby after a tackle the next play starts immediately, not 30, 45, or 60 seconds after. Rugby football is much more hardcore and viscous. If the greatest athletes in this country play gridiron then the greatest athletes in the world are from New Zealand since they have the best rugby players.

Football is a gentleman’s sport played by hooligans. Rugby is a hooligans’ sport played by gentlemen.

This is my only complaint about gridiron. The 40 times, are fake, false, padded, and not real. The NFL is full of athletes who have an “official” 40 yard time faster than Usain Bolt. There is no one in the NFL that can beat Usain Bolt in a 40. The fastest current NFL runner, Chris Johnson, is a former athletics (known as track & field in the states) sprinter. While good he was not near the best in the USA let alone the world.

[Iceaxe]

Hmmmm.... obviously you don't understand 40-yard dash times.... In football the clock is started at the first sign of movement.... in track the runner responds to the sound... so.... it's very possible that a football players official 40 time is faster then a timed 40 in track.... even though the track guy ran it faster..... apples and oranges...

Second question.... why is Usain Bolt even in this conversation.... he doesn't play soccer or football last time I checked? But a lot of track guys do head to football to make money.... including several men who have held the title "world's fastest human".... I believe Bullet Bob Hayes was the first to make the jump...

But this is getting us know where so please let me rephrase my original statement to..... any game that ends in a tie is candyass..... :haha:

[trackrunner]

Hmmmm.... obviously you don't understand 40-yard dash times.... In football the clock is started at the first sign of movement.... in track the runner responds to the sound... so.... it's very possible that a football players official 40 time is faster then a timed 40 in track.... even though the track guy ran it faster..... apples and oranges...

you left out the clock stops when the first body part (usually the hand) crosses the line in the 40. track it's the torso.


I believe Bullet Bob Hayes was the first to make the jump...

nope the AP "greatest athlete of the first half of the 20th century" was a track star, football star, baseball star, basketball star, . . . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Jim_Thorpe_football.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Jim_Thorpe_olympic.png

[Iceaxe]

It's easy if you think of football 40 times like this..... I don't have to run faster than the lion..... I just have to run faster than you... :lol8:

[Iceaxe]

And I knew Jim Thorpe won gold in the pentathlon and decathlon.... but I didn't know he was a world record holder on the 100 yard dash?

Bob Hayes was considered the world's fastest man by virtue of his multiple world records in the 60-yard, 100-yard, 220-yard, and 100-meter dashes.

[trackrunner]

Jim Thorpe was in reference to track guys making the jump. If limited to Olympic Champion or WR in the 100m (people consider world’s fastest human) quite possibly Bob Hayes. He’s the first that comes to my mind. Could be someone before him but not sure who it would be.

Jim Thorpe potentially could have won the 100m in the Olympics too. The winner won in 10.8 tying the WR at the time. Jim was timed at 100-yard in 10.0 sec. Jim had great range in track and field or any sport he picked up. His 220yrd/200m time would have been a photo finish between him and the winner, his 440yrd/400m would have put him in the mix of things for any medal. He could run a mile in 4:35 which would be considered a “world class” mile time for that era. All this from a guy that rarely practiced any sport because he was that good. Imagine what he could have done if he practice and/or took the practice serious.

[trackrunner]

This thread is now about different football codes. Take your political posts to the thread in basement forums.

video that explains on how association football called soccer, hint it's the boulded part, and some other popular football code names.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/whoknew-19124225/20475038

note it's not just American's that call it soccer. Irish call it soccer, they have a Galic Football code. Canada call it soccer, they have a sub-code of gridiorn football, canadian football. Australia also, they have code of football called Australian Football (also known as Aussie Rules Football).

Soccer is a British term that American's and others adopted. But became taboo in Britan when American's and other nations started calling their more popular codes "football" and association soccer.

speaking of cross over into American Football some NFL teams have been signing Aussie Rules players as punters. They have great accuracy to pin a punt under the 5 yrd line without a touchback.

[Sombeech]

Great news everybody. The oil in the Gulf is now reflecting the solar rays at a higher efficiency and is aiding in the fight against Global Warming.

[stefan]

not the least bit suprising ...



Letter: BP, Halliburton knew of flaws in cement in Gulf oil spill well
By Tom Cohen
October 28, 2010

Washington -- Oil giant BP and contractor Halliburton knew of potential flaws in the cement slurry used to reinforce the oil well below the Deepwater Horizon rig before it exploded in April, according to a letter Thursday from the lead investigator for a federal probe of the Gulf oil disaster.

The letter from Fred Bartlit Jr. to the National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling said that tests in February on a cement slurry similar to what was used on the Macondo well showed instability -- and that both companies had the data.

According to Bartlit's letter, the cement was poured to stabilize the well on April 19 and 20. The 20th was the day of the explosion on the Deepwater Horizon rig above the well that killed 11 workers and caused the worst oil spill in U.S. history.
"Halliburton and BP both had results in March showing that a very similar foam slurry design to the one actually pumped at the Macondo well would be unstable, but neither acted upon that data," the letter said.

"Halliburton (and perhaps BP) should have considered redesigning the foam slurry before pumping it at the Macondo well," the letter continued.

The news caused Halliburton stock to drop in value by almost 8 percent by the end of trading Thursday, to $31.68 a share. U.S. Rep. Edward Markey, D-Massachusetts, called for the oil spill commission to get full subpoena power, and for BP CEO Bob Dudley to agree to testify before Congress.

"The fact that BP and Halliburton knew this cement job could fail only solidifies their liability and responsibility for this disaster," Markey said in a written statement. "This is like building a car when you know the brakes could fail, but you sell the cars anyway."

In a report on the incident issued by BP on September 8, the company admitted that "weaknesses in cement design and testing, quality assurance and risk assessment" contributed to the explosion, but put the blame fully on Halliburton. Halliburton responded to the report by saying that it had noticed "a number of substantial omissions and inaccuracies."

Mark Bly, BP's head of safety and operations, said in a video accompanying BP's report that Halliburton "did not conduct comprehensive lab tests that could've identified potential problems with the cement." But he added, "We believe that BP and Halliburton working together should have better identified and addressed the issues underlying the cement job."

Bartlit emphasized in his letter Thursday that cementing failures are a known hazard in the oil industry, with specific tests such as a "negative pressure test" and "cement evaluation logs" designed to identify cementing problems. However, he wrote, workers at BP and possibly the company that operated the Deepwater Horizon rig, Transocean, "misinterpreted or chose not to conduct such tests at the Macondo well."

The mile-deep well was pronounced dead in September when workers completed sealing it off.

As part of the kill process, the workers drilled into the annulus, or the outer ring of the well. No oil was found there, which could be an important clue in the investigation.
Retired Adm. Thad Allen, who led the government's response to the spill, said at the time that a possible cause of the explosion was "further down in the well, there was some kind of a crossover between the annulus and the casing pipe where it was cemented."

A commission hearing on the disaster is scheduled for November 9, but Bartlit's letter said he was notifying the commission about the cement slurry issue immediately in order to "facilitate your consideration of their implications for offshore drilling safety."
While technical in nature -- using the word "hydrocarbon" to refer to oil, for example -- the letter depicts a process that failed to detect a potential cause of the disaster.

"We have known for some time that the cement used to secure the production casing and isolate the hydrocarbon zone at the bottom of the Macondo well must have failed in some manner," the letter said, noting that BP used a "nitrogen foam cement" recommended and supplied by Halliburton.

As part of the investigation, the letter said, Chevron conducted independent tests of similar cement slurry materials supplied by Halliburton and found the mix to be unstable.

"Halliburton has stated publicly that it tested the Macondo cement before pumping it on April 19th and 20th, and that its tests indicated the cement would be stable," Bartlit's letter said. "When Chevron informed us of the preliminary results of its tests, we asked Halliburton to give us all of the data from all tests it had run on the Macondo cement slurry."

That information revealed the two February tests by Halliburton of a slightly different cement slurry mix that showed it was unstable, the letter said.

"Halliburton provided data from one of the two February tests to BP in an email dated March 8, 2010," the letter said. "The data appeared in a technical report along with other information. There is no indication that Halliburton highlighted to BP the significance of the foam stability data or that BP personnel raised any questions about it. There is no indication that Halliburton provided the data from the other February test to BP."

The Halliburton information also disclosed an additional test in early April, prior to the explosion, that involved the same mix that was used on the Macondo well and also found it to be unstable, the letter said.

"The results of this test were reported internally within Halliburton by at least April 17, though it appears that Halliburton never provided the data to BP," the letter said. Halliburton then conducted another test using a modified procedure, the letter said, and the result for the first time indicated the slurry design would be stable.

However, the letter said investigators were unsure if that fourth test was completed before the cement slurry was poured at the Macondo well, and that Halliburton reported the positive result to BP after the blowout.


[QUOTE]Halliburton and BP knew risk before spill
By Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Washington,
Sylvia Pfeifer in London and Sheila McNulty in Houston
Financial Times

Halliburton (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=uk:BP.) and BP (http://markets.ft.com/tearsheets/performance.asp?s=us:HAL) had data weeks ahead of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill (http://www.ft.com/indepth/bp-oil-spill) that showed the cement mixture the companies used to seal the well was unstable, but did not act on the information, according to a report by the US National Commission investigating the Macondo spill.

Tests performed for the investigative panel by industry experts strongly suggested that a mixture that was identical to the base cement slurry that Halliburton used on the well was not suitable. The deficiency

[stefan]

Deepwater Horizon's final hours (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/26spill.html?_r=1&hp)

based on interviews with 21 Horizon crew members, sworn testimony and written statements from the 94 people who escaped the rig, and other documents related to the incident