Helmetless in Pine Creek - did we miss the memo?

[Mitch]

I was in Pine Creek on Sat. May 8 with a group of 3 friends. We ended up among 4 different groups of canyoneers that collectively totalled 22. The conditions in Pine Creek were nice and "normal" - full pools of cold water but no running streams and cool (not freezing) air temps in canyon and while the air temps out in the sun was in the high 70s.

I've been down Pine Creek perhaps 5 times now and was never more frightened by what I saw on this trip. Of the 22 people that we could see, only our group of 4 had helmets.

Also, a group of 8 that we passed were not equipped with personal anchor leashes such as daisy chains. Moreover, this particular group consisted of all newbies (no rappelling and/or lead climbing experience) with the exception of the one trip leader.

I had a sidebar conversation with three members of the 8 person group where I gently expressed my shock at their too casual approach to safety. They didn't disagree with my concerns since I believe that they didn't appreciate the potential hazards (something else equally scary).

Let me iterate: helmetless and untethered newbies in Pine Creek (think about the first, the Cathedral and final rap stances).

I just want to say: let's be safe out there. No one benefits when someone gets hurt in the canyons (or anywhere else for that matter).

Mitchell

[Scott Card]

Good observations. I too have seen many, many in Pine Creek w/o helmets. Truly, the second to the last rap is an ackward thing where I have seen many a noob slip, try to stand up too straight, and as a result crash into the jagged wall. I can't even imagine going into a canyon w/o a helmet anymore.

[denaliguide]

excersizing free will can be a bitch.

[Don]

Harbor Freight Mother F*ckers! :nono:

[Boots]

Harbor Freight Mother F*ckers! :nono:

Ha Ha!! good times last year, huh? But hey, maybe this year you will end up getting your birthday beer!

On Sunday, the 23rd, I was going through Spry Canyon and the group right in front of us was going through without helmets as well. I am pretty new to all this canyoneering stuff but I was really surprised to see people not using helmets. I guess people are just too lazy to worry about protecting their heads!

[nat]

No helmets in pine creek?! That's outrageous! They might trip have tripped on their shoe laces and bonked their heads. :haha:

[Brian in SLC]

No helmets in pine creek?! That's outrageous! They might trip have tripped on their shoe laces and bonked their heads. :haha:

Yeah, I wanted to say, "nothing says newb like helmets and daisy chains", but, I didn't.

Not sayin' helmets aren't a good idear. I don't wear one that often. Doesn't make me lazy or cheap (might have more helmets than most here, 4 petzls, Edelrid, MSR, Ultimate, some high end Euro french thing, etc).

Its a personal choice for those of us that "know better" I suppose. For some, maybe its out of ignorance.

In Pine Creek? My risk of a head injury is very, very low. Not non-existent to be sure. I just feel more aware, more, sounds silly, but freedom, really, when I don't wear one. I like not wearing one. Probably means I sacrafice gettin' my picture in Canyoneering monthly, but...

I'm well aware of the risks. Have a number of climbing friends who've had very serious head injuries, yet, I still feel like not wearing one. Why? Worth some introspection I guess.

More often than not, climbing, I leave it on the ground in my pack, even on a fairly necky lead. Go figure.

Yeah, wearin' a helmet is a good idear. I'm also glad its a personal choice.

And, my thought is, if you really think you NEED one, pick a different sport.

[Scott Card]

Alright mister snooty climber...:lol8: Brian, you just don't hang out in enough canyons with log jams you need to crawl under, rocks you need to crawl under, awkward starts on rappels that swing you under chock stones -- nice things like that where if you stand up too soon you smack you head or if you swing just so you smack your head. Get off the walls man, and hang out in the canyons where you can smack your head a lot easier! :haha:

Choice or not, I know I wouldn't want to do Heaps with all the crap that comes down on the second and third entry rap and the last rap. Just me and my choice I guess, but I digress since we are speaking of Pine Creek.

[Brian in SLC]

Get off the walls man, and hang out in the canyons where you can smack your head a lot easier!

Is it just me, or, do I bonk my head WAY more whilst wearing a helmet? Lack of situational awareness?

I ring my bell all the time with a helmet on. Can't recall any time I have when not. Strange.


Choice or not, I know I wouldn't want to do Heaps with all the crap that comes down on the second and third entry rap and the last rap.

Yeah, those first couple of rap's off that crusty loose ridge is pretty scary. Great place to be careful, nad, uhhmmm, wear a helmet.

Last rap? Hadn't noticed much loose stuff or folks were being careful. Hard not to there. Big air!

I hear's ya. Got missed by 5 or 10 feet by a fair sized rock from 100 feet up a couple of weekends ago. Not sure a helmet would have helped much, except make it easier to identify me through dental records...

Actually, should wear a helmet when I open the tailgate of my SUV and return to load or unload gear....especially if its chilly outside. Dang, that hurts...a lot.

[Iceaxe]

Funny... I had this same conversation not long ago with someone who berated me for publishing pictures on Climb-Utah of folks not wearing helmets....... here was my response.....

I'm really not much of a helmet nazi.... sometimes I wear one and sometimes I don't.... it depends on the area, difficulty, yada, yada.... but I try to never say anything negative about helmets.... because having a helmet along is one of those things that its better to error on the side of caution.... it might not be what I do or use.... but recommending them is the socially responsible thing to do....

[EvergreenDean]

And nothing says "hey look at me, I'm a canyoneer" than one of those cool helmets, right? That and some loud jingly stuff hanging off of your harness. I like to wear mine everywhere just to attract attention, along with my 5-10 canyoneers...:lol8:

[Scott Card]

I've run into some difficulty accessorizing to match the 5.10's. The Atache' biners are gold and clash with yellow. My blue totem clashes. I guess when I don my 5.10's I will just have to keep wearing my wet suit to Walmart when it is wet out. I do hope the new fall line of gear matches my 5.10's a little better. It is just embarrassing after labor day. You should see the folks at freeze fest... Hobos I tell you.

[EvergreenDean]

Solution to the clash. Now, for a yellow harness and wetsuit. Bumblebee look almost complete...

[Scott Card]

Solution to the clash. Now, for a yellow harness and wetsuit. Bumblebee look almost complete...
Saaaaaweeeeet! :lol8:

[sarahlizzy]

In my first and only trip through Pine Creek I slipped while at the anchor for the Cathedral rap.

Thankfully I was tethered to the bolts with a canyon quickdraw. If not ... splat.

[nat]

I didn't intend to make fun of people wearing helmets. But I was poking fun at those outraged by others NOT wearing helmets. I usually wear a helmet in high stemming slots and occasionally in other canyons; if I think there is more than an extremely minor chance of head injury, I'll probably wear one. Of course it's a personal decision. Personally, in canyons like Pine Creek, I feel that the chances of getting a head injury are probably less than getting a head injury while driving a car to work, walking down the icy sidewalk in front of my house in winter, or even hiking down the Virgin River (Zion Narrows) on those "greased bowling balls". In these situations, I have decided (as probably most people in this group would) not to wear a helmet, and thus also in places like Pine Creek. I have to agree with Brian, that when I'm wearing a helmet, I have often bumped my head; rarely, if ever, when not.

Nat

[hank moon]

re: wearing a helmet increases frequency of head bumps

Yes! You will probably (lightly) bump your head more often when wearing a helmet. This is due to a change in spacial awareness and will generally happen more often with the thicker foam helmets. However, have you ever smacked your head hard while wearing a helmet? I have, many times, and was glad to have worn the head armor.

I have also had rockfall and other high-velocity objects smack my helmet. While it may be true (Nat) that headsmacks are less likely in Pine Creek than in a car, I'd rather not worry about that calculation each time I head out and so just wear a helmet as part of my standard get-up. Note that even in Pine Creek, conditions can greatly influence the probability of falling stuff. This spring there was a lot of icefall in there. I have also seen Bighorn on the rim of Pine Creek several times this year...

[canyoncaver]

A carabiner dropped on your head from 100 feet up could kill you. From the shenanigans I've seen in Pine Creek, I'd say this is a real danger. There are also plenty of places where you could slip and fall 10-15 feet. I would certainly like to have a helmet on in that event.

[Don]

A carabiner dropped on your head from 100 feet up could kill you. From the shenanigans I've seen in Pine Creek, I'd say this is a real danger. There are also plenty of places where you could slip and fall 10-15 feet. I would certainly like to have a helmet on in that event.

Word. :cool2:

[mmac]

Harbor Freight Mother F*ckers! :nono:

Right on! :lol8:

[Pelon1]

I feel that the chances of getting a head injury are probably less than getting a head injury while driving a car to work,
Don't tell me I'm the only one that wears my canyoneering helmet while driving...:nono:

[buck la rock]

I have to chime in: I was in the vicinity of the 2nd rap in Pine Creek one time, when I was hit squarely on the top of my helmeted head by a rock. Small enough to not injure me but it would have been serious 1-lump-or-2 time if I hadn't my helmet on. Isn't there a trail of some type immediately above the initial Pine Creek narrows, with trailhead parking like 100 yards away? I feel like I've heard people up above me there several times when I've been in Pine Creek.

Jeez, plz wear yr helmet if yr w/ me thx.

[Don]

I have to chime in: I was in the vicinity of the 2nd rap in Pine Creek one time, when I was hit squarely on the top of my helmeted head by a rock. Small enough to not injure me but it would have been serious 1-lump-or-2 time if I hadn't my helmet on. Isn't there a trail of some type immediately above the initial Pine Creek narrows, with trailhead parking like 100 yards away? I feel like I've heard people up above me there several times when I've been in Pine Creek.

Jeez, plz wear yr helmet if yr w/ me thx.

Canyon Overlook Trail, runs above and alongside Pine Creek. Fairly easy, short and popular. A rock from up there would land in the canyon.

[Iceaxe]

I was in Pine Creek once and a boyscout troop started rolling large rocks and logs into the canyon from above us.... Many of the rocks were large enough that I don't think a helmet would have saved us..... it scared the snot out of me....

[Don]

I was in Pine Creek once and a boyscout troop started rolling large rocks and logs into the canyon from above us.... Many of the rocks were large enough that I don't think a helmet would have saved us..... it scared the snot out of me....

Makes me wonder how I made it through my time in the scouts without accidentally killing someone or myself, or at least blowing off a couple fingers... :nono:

[mtnfreak318]

Pine Creek is definitely an awesome canyoneering trip. I must admit I did it without a helmet as well.

[Ryebrye]

Solution to the clash. Now, for a yellow harness and wetsuit. Bumblebee look almost complete...

The NRS drysuit I have is black and yellow. You should get one to coordinate with your outfit.

[mtnfreak318]

I had the bumblebee dry suit..:haha:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b103/mtnfreak318/Virgin%202008/DSC01054.jpg

[The European Death Knot]

I've have had hit my head in the canynos many times, and now I don't think to good..

[dbaxter]

I've have had hit my head in the canynos many times, and now I don't think to good..
:roll_lol::bwahaha::bwahaha::bwahaha:

[taatmk]

aring a helmet? Mine broke. And I have procrastinated getting a new one. Early on, I used a helmet a lot. Then, on my most recent trip to Pine Creek, after loading up the gear into the back of the Grand Cherokee, I pulled out of the switchback parking area and heard and felt a 'crunching' sound. The helmet hadn't got stowed away, but had now become garbage. I ran over the thing! It didn't stand the weight of a Jeep. Every time I pack gear for the next trip, I think, "Dang, I need to replace that helmet. Ok, I will after I get back from this trip." But I haven't yet.