Ryebrye
05-13-2010, 10:08 AM
reading in the thread on ratings, I decided to look at their canyonbeta site.
http://canyonbeta.com/2010/02/pine-creek/
For pine creek - they recommend using their "layering system" which consists of this:
http://canyonbeta.com/2010/01/wccm-layering-system/
On that page, I get that they really like NRS stuff when they talk about the anti-gravity top, the dry tops, the dry pants, etc. What I don't get is that they recommend the Seal Skinz socks - which in my opinion are probably the worst neoprene socks made over any of the NRS expedition socks - which in my opinion are among the best.
I might recommend SealSkinz to people I don't like very much as some kind of cruel joke, but even I'm not that mean.
Ok, then moving on to other sections of the beta:
Permits from the Zion N.P. Visitors Center
Well... technically true, but more accurate would be to say the Backcountry desk at the visitors center.
Please note the longest rappel in bold below and the recommended rope above refers to WCCM rule which is to bring 3 times the longest rappel of rope into any canyon route.
Ok, this part confuses me somewhat. What's the purpose of 3 times the rope aside from building a strong back? Is this explained in their book why they say you need 3x the rope?
Maybe if I was teaching complete beginners how to do canyons I would recommend this (if I sold rope, that is)
If you want to do both Pine Creek and Keyhole following their gear recommendations you are going to have to make a choice... You can do pine creek first with your 3 120' ropes and then cut two of them down so you can have the required 3 60' ropes for Keyhole, or you can carry 3 120' rope and 3 60' ropes. (In other words, you have to buy a spool of rope to do both of those canyons on a regular basis) [ After all... Carrying a single 120' rope would be a foolhardy deathwish in keyhole! ]
If you follow the WCCM method and attempt to do Heaps in a party of 3, each of you will be carrying 300 feet of rope through the canyon. But maybe since Heaps would be a 5B R V in their system, they'd recommend you'd be "extra safe" and carry 4x the amount of rope? So maybe just carry two spools through - just to be safe.
http://canyonbeta.com/2010/02/pine-creek/
For pine creek - they recommend using their "layering system" which consists of this:
http://canyonbeta.com/2010/01/wccm-layering-system/
On that page, I get that they really like NRS stuff when they talk about the anti-gravity top, the dry tops, the dry pants, etc. What I don't get is that they recommend the Seal Skinz socks - which in my opinion are probably the worst neoprene socks made over any of the NRS expedition socks - which in my opinion are among the best.
I might recommend SealSkinz to people I don't like very much as some kind of cruel joke, but even I'm not that mean.
Ok, then moving on to other sections of the beta:
Permits from the Zion N.P. Visitors Center
Well... technically true, but more accurate would be to say the Backcountry desk at the visitors center.
Please note the longest rappel in bold below and the recommended rope above refers to WCCM rule which is to bring 3 times the longest rappel of rope into any canyon route.
Ok, this part confuses me somewhat. What's the purpose of 3 times the rope aside from building a strong back? Is this explained in their book why they say you need 3x the rope?
Maybe if I was teaching complete beginners how to do canyons I would recommend this (if I sold rope, that is)
If you want to do both Pine Creek and Keyhole following their gear recommendations you are going to have to make a choice... You can do pine creek first with your 3 120' ropes and then cut two of them down so you can have the required 3 60' ropes for Keyhole, or you can carry 3 120' rope and 3 60' ropes. (In other words, you have to buy a spool of rope to do both of those canyons on a regular basis) [ After all... Carrying a single 120' rope would be a foolhardy deathwish in keyhole! ]
If you follow the WCCM method and attempt to do Heaps in a party of 3, each of you will be carrying 300 feet of rope through the canyon. But maybe since Heaps would be a 5B R V in their system, they'd recommend you'd be "extra safe" and carry 4x the amount of rope? So maybe just carry two spools through - just to be safe.