Pain Pill & Addiction

[jman]

If you have read the threads in the Canyoneering section, I posted a thread back in March about my Rappelling accident in Moab. I fell over 30+ feet like a rock and fortunately, only broke 1 ankle (the talus, actually. Nothing else). I also thank God everyday that I didn't land on my head (even with a helmet on) or back (had a backpack on too which cushioned the blow when my ankles blew out) or anything else.

And on June 2nd, I get my hardcast removed, and will be able to resume "normal activity". And my brothers, sisters and I have made a goal for me to lose weight (I've gained 10lbs due to inactivity due being in a wheelchair and crutches) and run the Ogden Half-Marathon next year!

Anyways, my point, ever since the accident, my doctor prescribed 120 percocets for the pain - and luckily for me I didn't use a whole lot of them.

I have quite a few left...but I'll be honest, they really, really, really, really work. Not just in knocking out the pain (which I have none now), but also in making you feel really, really, really, really...... good. And that feeling of euphoria lasts for hours. And it's very tempting to take them just for that feeling again.

So, with my better judgement, I poured gasoline all over them and lit them on fire just a few hours ago. I wanted to get rid of any temptation...a bit drastic, but druggies get desperate, as we know.

I actually feel 10x better knowing that they are gone, because I have heard so many stories from friends of friends, and one family member, and others who have struggled with narcotic addiction. And now I have experienced that high - first hand. Very scary! Very addictive. And self-destructive.

This is a judge-free zone, but it really has opened my eyes to the powerful nature of these things. Don't get me wrong, I've studied about it, heard the stories, and ignored it, until it got very personal.

[Sombeech]

Anyways, my point, ever since the accident, my doctor prescribed 120 percocets for the pain

...

So, with my better judgement, I poured gasoline all over them and lit them on fire just a few hours ago.


http://treebeard31.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/at-first-i-was-like.jpg

[Sombeech]

Actually, I hear ya. I've had both of my knees done, broken ribs from bike crashes, stuff like that. I've been through a minor depression after I ran out of pills. While taking them, it's easy to justify how good they actually are for you because they make you nice. :bandit:

[Felicia]

I refused the vicodin and percoscet (sp???) for this very reason.

For pain, I only take Tylenol #3. I only took them for two days and then I went to OTC Tylenol and Advil.

Good for you! :clap::clap::clap:

As I'm a couple of weeks ahead of you in the recovery process, I can tell you that it really hurts to start weight bearing and walk again. But I hurt for three months before the surgery, so at least this pain is recovery pain and no longer injury pain.

Get well!!! :nod:

[jman]

Actually, I hear ya. I've had both of my knees done, broken ribs from bike crashes, stuff like that. I've been through a minor depression after I ran out of pills. While taking them, it's easy to justify how good they actually are for you because they make you nice. :bandit:

haha to the picture above - that was true for me. They really do "fix" your state of mind, that's why I can "try" to understand why there are alcoholics and pain addicts in the world. I have learned never to pass judgement on them, well, really on anybody, but especially those who have physical addictions, and wish others could do the same. They will truly never know what it's like to experience it.

[stefan]

And on June 2nd, I get my hardcast removed, and will be able to resume "normal activity". And my brothers, sisters and I have made a goal for me to lose weight (I've gained 10lbs due to inactivity due being in a wheelchair and crutches) and run the Ogden Half-Marathon next year!


glad to hear it. may you have a speedy return normal

[denaliguide]

and here i was going to offer you good money for the lot.:cry1:

[jman]

I refused the vicodin and percoscet (sp???) for this very reason.

For pain, I only take Tylenol #3. I only took them for two days and then I went to OTC Tylenol and Advil.

Good for you! :clap::clap::clap:

As I'm a couple of weeks ahead of you in the recovery process, I can tell you that it really hurts to start weight bearing and walk again. But I hurt for three months before the surgery, so at least this pain is recovery pain and no longer injury pain.

Get well!!! :nod:

Thanks I appreciate that! I'm sorry and wish you the best in your recovery. It really is amazing what we learn about pain and suffering, on all aspects.

[jman]

and here i was going to offer you good money for the lot.:cry1:

will a picture of the burn't remnants suffice for a couple G from ya? :nod:

[Scott Card]

Well done Jman. :2thumbs: I deal with the consequences to my clients almost daily due to their pain/depression pill addictions. I was in court this morning for a client charged with a dui due to pain pills. Gratefully, pain pills mostly make me sick so the temptation is not there. However, those things have certainly screwed up a bunch of people. I often wish doctors would prescribe by the day or week not month or two months. Yes, pain pill have their place. Heaven knows I was grateful for the two I took the night following my knee scope. I would have never been able to sleep let alone deal with that initial post surgery pain.

[jman]

Well done Jman. :2thumbs: I deal with the consequences to my clients almost daily due to their pain/depression pill addictions. I was in court this morning for a client charged with a dui due to pain pills. Gratefully, pain pills mostly make me sick so the temptation is not there. However, those things have certainly screwed up a bunch of people. I often wish doctors would prescribe by the day or week not month or two months. Yes, pain pill have their place. Heaven knows I was grateful for the two I took the night following my knee scope. I would have never been able to sleep let alone deal with that initial post surgery pain.

That's what happened to me to - it made my stomach really sick. And on the ride home from Moab, I threw up 6+ times due to the meds. But after a few weeks of taking them daily for the pain - it don't bother it AT ALL...even on a empty stomach. The max dosage was 2 pills within a 4-6 hour frame, and I could take 1 1/2 pills on a empty stomach. 2 full ones would make me puke. But I'm a big dude 190lbs (but now 200 due to the inactivity) and I can imagine the effects on a woman or a really skinny teenager (or adult, I suppose).

Scott, is it true that people taking narcotics can not sign legal papers?

[Scott Card]

Scott, is it true that people taking narcotics can not sign legal papers? I am not sure the technical answer to that. I know that I kinda snicker when a judge asks a person being sentenced for drug use whether he/she is on any kind of drug or medication prior to giving an answer. Do judges really think the dude is going to admit to that in court? I guess if they are high enough, they will. I know it is a required question.

Seriously though, it can be an issue if perceived by either witnesses to the signing or afterwords when the signors head clears and the signor freaks out for having signed something stupid. It is a heavy burden of proof, however, either way. The law presumes that if you sign, you understood and agree with what you sign. People contesting wills will often bring this up that dad or mom were doped up on meds and really didn't mean to cut them out of the will.... nasty, ugly cases they are.

[Felicia]

I know that I kinda snicker when a judge asks a person being sentenced for drug use whether he/she is on any kind of drug or medication prior to giving an answer. Do judges really think the dude is going to admit to that in court? I guess if they are high enough, they will. I know it is a required question.


:roflol:

I've seen two defendants answer this question with an affirmative. The look on the faces of the various legal participates was priceless each time.

The first defendant was set to be remanded to a jail term of a year and he said that he just needed a little help getting through the morning. The other defendant was in custody and was going up state. He said that just because he was in the cage, it did not mean that he could not have access to the drug of his choice. The first guy has his OR revoked and bail was set for a further date. The second guy was labeled a total sep and trailed to a future date.

Never say never. Just when you think you have seen it all, someone comes along to surprise you. :mrgreen:

[Scott Card]

:roflol:

I've seen two defendants answer this question with an affirmative. The look on the faces of the various legal participates was priceless each time.

The first defendant was set to be remanded to a jail term of a year and he said that he just needed a little help getting through the morning. The other defendant was in custody and was going up state. He said that just because he was in the cage, it did not mean that he could not have access to the drug of his choice. The first guy has his OR revoked and bail was set for a further date. The second guy was labeled a total sep and trailed to a future date.

Never say never. Just when you think you have seen it all, someone comes along to surprise you. :mrgreen:

:lol8:
If this ever happened to me I would probably laugh myself silly then smack my client upside the head, then I would request a tape of the event to show at family functions....

[cachehiker]

I was on percocets following a shoulder separation about 25 years ago.

I didn't protest too loudly when a couple of buds poached a few for recreational use but ran myself out of the balance of my prescription. It was for 60 IIRC and I probably took between 50 and 55 myself. They made some pretty hard chairs so very comfortable that I had to be careful about falling asleep in the kitchen while Carol did the dishes.

All in all, I had a tough week or so but appreciated running out as well.

I spent four days in criminal court for moral support last fall. Every other case involved drugs or alcohol in some way or another. I highly recommend it to anybody who's never been. Those who have never been around around drugs, drug users, or experienced it themselves and yet still feels qualified to pass judgement needs a reality check.

[Iceaxe]

You burned them? :facepalm:


33606

[blueeyes]

When I tore my knee up skiing and the doc asked me what I wanted for pain I told him tequila:bandit:. He gave me percoset. I didn't take it that night I left the ER. The next morning my Dad came by to check on me. He made me take one percoset for the pain and left. I was alone with one of those straight leg braces and had to pee. I made it to the bathroom, peed and apparently pulled my panties back up before I passed out into the bath tub. I came to and realized where I was and went back out again. Came to and made it far enough into my room and I passed out safely on the bed. Came around again and crawled under the covers and passed out. Mom came by after work gave me another percoset so like 8 hours later. She stuck around and fed the kids. I felt like sheeeeet after dinner in bed and thought maybe a shower would help. The shower is downstairs. So me and my braced leg make it to the bottom of the stairs and I pass out. Wake up make it to the downstairs bathroom, felt like I was going to throw up (which I NEVER EVER EVER do) sat down on the toilet and came to with my mom proping me up and holding the waste basket in my face (no i didn't puke). I decided that taking a shower was a bad idea. I made it out the door of the bathroom into the adjacent door of my daughters room and passed out trying to make it to her bed. That one hurt!

I will never ever ever ever ever ever I don't care how bad I hurt take percoset again!!! I will stick to my tequila. I have yet to pass out drinking tequila.

I didn't throw out the drugs and a lovely friend of mine stole them. Well they are no longer my friend.

Anyway I kinda think my experiece is funny. Glad you recognize the fact that you could end up addicted if you don't dispose of them. Addiction sucks! Seen plenty of good people go through hell because of it.

[asdf]

You burned them? :facepalm:



x2

[Don]

To each his own jman. If it was your right thing to do then it was the right thing to do. No reason to lose control.

I've been lucky to avoid the addiction issues. :drink::friday::boozer::pitcher::beer::cheers: :slobber1:




:coffee:

[Cirrus2000]

When I had a nasty knee problem (twenty freakin' years ago*), I was given Demerol in the hospital. I had a (badly) dislocated knee, and the Demerol really helped for the hour or two until they got me into surgery. It still hurt like a son-of-a-gun, but I didn't really care anymore - it was like it was someone else's pain; totally detached. When I got out of the hospital, I had a cast on for 6 weeks while medial collateral ligament re-attached itself to my tibia. When that came off, my knee was totally seized with scar tissue inside. I had to go to rehab (it was a worker compensation claim) to try to loosen it up, and regain and improve motion and stability in my knee. I never got anything stronger than Tylenol 3s after I was out of the hospital. Sometimes I wished I had more, but the pain was manageable, so I just sucked it up.

I had a manual transmission, and a left leg that I couldn't bend. Unable to use the clutch, I had to take transit to the rehab centre, hobbling along on crutches. It was a long way away - 45 minutes on a bus, 35 minutes on light rail, then 30 more minutes on another bus. Each way. For about a week. The Tylenol 3s made me feel a little sick, and combined with a long bus and train ride - I felt a LOT sick. So I took some Gravol prior to boarding the bus. The combination of T3 and Gravol knocked me right out. A couple of times I missed my stop, and ended up late for rehab. Finally they gave me a room in the residence - that commute while wasted, then arriving semi-incoherent, was not working out for anybody! After a week, my mom bought me a crappy little rust bucket - with an automatic transmission. Man, it was good to drive again.

I spent a couple of weeks at rehab (worker's compensation claim) trying to loosen the knee, but eventually they had to put me under a general anesthetic and reef on my leg until it all ripped free. That was about the worst pain I've ever had, when I came to. They kept me overnight, on a little machine that bent and straightened my leg constantly, all freakin' night. Most miserable night I've ever spent. About 4 more weeks in rehab after that, and I was good to go.

Anyway, the knee still hurts sometimes, but never more than a Vitamin I or Tylenol 1 can handle. Wouldn't mind trying out a Percocet or Oxycontin just to see how big a jump it is from your basic codeine preparations. (Tylenol 1 is available without prescription in Canada - they have 1/4 of the codeine that Tylenol 3s have. Very nice to have a few in the first aid kit just in case.)


* My knee injury: in 1990, I worked in a granite processing plant, cutting, polishing and dimensioning granite slabs. Through a slight mishap involving poor balance, I had a 1500 pound slab of granite fall against the outside of my left knee. It landed on my lower leg, with the medial side against the floor, and my thigh still completely upright. Picture looking at me from the front, and my left leg was making an "L" shape, straight sideways. When the stone was lifted off, the sockets at the top of the tibia/fibula had jumped to the wrong spot on the bottom of my femur. My left leg stuck out at a 45 degree angle from straight. Both cruciate ligaments were ruptured, and the medial collateral ligament tore off the top of the tibia. The orthopedic surgeon performed an open reduction, putting the knee back into place, and stapling the MCL to the tibia. The cruciates were left as they were. The knee is now relatively stable, considering the severity of the injury. Side to side stresses can cause a lot of pain (skiing and tennis suck big time). There is some instability when the knee is bent more than about 60 or 70 degrees, but as long as I keep my legs strong, they keep holding up. The worker's comp claim is never closed, so if there is future trouble with instability, I can always go back for a reconstruction. At this point (20 years in) I don't think I'll need it.

So there ya go - I totally get ligament and joint problems. Sometimes I wish I'd just busted the bone, rather than the ligaments - might make for better stability now.

OK, I've yapped enough. :blahblah:

Hope you heal up quick, jman, and glad you ain't hooked on anything worse than, like, Mountain Dew or something. :haha:

[Reedus]

Definitely wouldn't have burned them. Ya put them in a safe keeping spot until the next time you get back from a canyoneering trip and your feet are blistered, your muscles are aching, and you feel the oncoming of a nasty cold. They also make a sweet addition to your possibles bag...

[Felicia]

I disagree Reedus. There is a reason that he felt compelled to go through the effort to burn them from his wheel chair or crutches. He did the right thing under the circumstance and I respect his decision.

[oldno7]

I disagree Reedus. There is a reason that he felt compelled to go through the effort to burn them from his wheel chair or crutches. He did the right thing under the circumstance and I respect his decision.

X2

[uintahiker]

Jman- Congrats on recognizing a potential problem and removing the temptation. It takes a strong person to do something like that. :2thumbs:

[Sombeech]

When I had a very minor addiction several years ago, it really sucked coming off of them. I actually started wondering if I could fake an injury so I could get another prescription. Luckily I just manned up and got through it.

Later on I learned to control it. I've still got some leftovers from something, now I can't remember. Maybe broken ribs or a knee problem, but I've got some Percocet and Lortab in a container. It sure does come in handy when you take a spill on the trail or I tweak my knee again and just need about 24 hours of pain relief. The last time I used one was at the Moabfest in October, I had some wicked bad neck spasms and I had to fit a Slickrock bike ride in.

[asdf]

Definitely wouldn't have burned them. Ya put them in a safe keeping spot until the next time you get back from a canyoneering trip and your feet are blistered, your muscles are aching, and you feel the oncoming of a nasty cold. They also make a sweet addition to your possibles bag...

Totally agree

But I guess if you were going to start knocking off pharmacies once your script ran out burning them now was a good idea. Otherwise I just would of enjoyed more then a few of them then stashed rest.

This is coming from a guy who still has painkillers stashed away from my ankle injury almost three years ago. Sure I splurged a bit for the first few weeks or so but once they were half gone... well I still have some. I always keep a few pain killers in my mini first aid kit and they have come in handy on more than a few occasions.
Most recently after backpacking 20+ miles my feet were trashed and bloody having a little sompthing-sompthing once I got back to the car (I was not driving) really saved my day.

to each his own i guess.... but if we are hiking and you break your leg I am going to remind you while we wait for SAR that you should of kept yours while I am sharing mine :haha:

[Sombeech]

In the end, if you fear addiction, sell them for profit :afro:

[mxerhale]

I've been through 4 ACL reconstructions and some other choice injuries like shoulders and broken bones but the percocets and lortabs make me hallucinate (imaginary spiders and people) and when I've been shot up with demoral (after requesting no demoral!)I just about lost my lunch all over the hospital room. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

[Iceaxe]

the doc asked me what I wanted for pain I told him tequila:bandit:. He gave me percoset.

Back in the good ol' days.... We were in St. George for spring break. It took us about 2 minutes to figure out that we could dive off our second floor balcony into the hotel swimming pool. Which really made the run back up to the room for anther beer a lot quicker....

Anyhoo.... my buddy Boozer dove off the balcony and cracked his head open on the bottom of the pool. So we loaded Boozer into the car and took him over to the hospital to get patched up. After stitching his head back up the doc handed Boozer some Percosets for the pain.... and the instructions.... "Don't take these with alcohol".... Boozer looked at the bottle of pills and tossed them back to the doc with the reply "In that case.... keep them".... the look on the doc's face was priceless....

:friday:

[Cirrus2000]

and the instructions.... "Don't take these with alcohol".... Boozer looked at the bottle of pills and tossed them back to the doc with the reply "In that case.... keep them".... the look on the doc's face was priceless....

:friday:
Classic! :haha:

[jman]

In small doses it works great for excruciating pain! I'm not against that at all. Recreation use, though, is a horrible idea.

Again and again, news agencies, especially recently here in Utah, they say that there have been more deaths by prescription abuse than car accidents. That's shocking. And mothers who take narcotics while pregnant, pass on respiratory depression to their babies.

On a side-note, I worked for Dixie Ambulance in St. George and was with them for 2years as a EMT-I. Most obituaries down there of young adults were due to ODing of drugs and alcohol poisoning ...I saw those same kids as we loaded them up from their friends house or secret spot in the slickrock hills and administered CPR and narcan to remove the high. They would get a sinus rythm going for a sec, then due to the OD or recreation drugs or prescription pills, then their body would seize (which is very ugly sight) and go back into heart failure, for which CPR and ALS would not work. Time and time again, the story never changes, and it seems like people don't learn from others.

You may take it for blisters or a paper-cut, but I really hope one-day you won't become addicted. I learned I have the potential to be one, that's why I stopped.

[Spooky]

I've never understood why people abuse pain pills because they don't make me high. If anything, they make me grumpy. Then again, no drug except pot has ever made me high and thankfully I quit trying to find a drug that would by the time I was 16.

I do take quite a bit of pain medication and muscle relaxants for the spasticity pain that comes with MS. They really work and I'd be a screaming cow without them.

Burning percoset? No way dudette. You should've kept them for bartering. :haha:

[asdf]

yeah dudette!

[jman]

Burning percoset? No way dudette. You should've kept them for bartering. :haha:

it's kinda funny actually, that after I initially wrote the post, I got two PMs from people I have never seen before asking how much I would sell it to them for.

You have MS? Wow. I'm sorry.

Yup, I burned them - it was good sight alright!

[Cirrus2000]

Dudette. :haha:

jman's avatar may be a chick, (and totally mesmerizing) but jman's a dude.

[Spooky]

Dudette. :haha:

jman's avatar may be a chick, (and totally mesmerizing) but jman's a dude.

:shock:



Duuuuuuuude....sorry. :lol8:

[Glockguy]

Good for you man. I lost a cousin who had back surgery and ended up getting addicted to the pills. He was taking like (?)20 a day. I'm still pissed at him.

[Spooky]

Jman's avatar really is mesmerizing. Even without the pain pills. :wink:

[snccoulter]

I have been back on pain pills again for less than a week and i am not happy with them.. my moods are all jacked up i just cant wait for the pain stem to be placed so i wont hurt any more. I have been given lortab 10's but i break them in half otherwise i get really sick from them. If i was going to have to wait for more than a week i would be researching some other way to resolve the pain again but for a week it is not so bad if you spend anymore time on them than that the body has some real issues coming off of the stuff and it is just not worth it IMHO..

[Felicia]

What is a pain stem and how does it work?

[snccoulter]

basically it is a pace maker type thing that i will have control of. It sends out an electrical stimulation that over powers the nerve . So I will feel a slight twitch from the electrical impulse but if i feel any pain it will be very limited. they are used mostly in the lower back but my doc has been using them with great success in the groin o Wednesday i will be pain fee and able to dump the pain meds thank god...

[Felicia]

Wow - that's great.

[snccoulter]

Yes i am very much thrilled. I had a temp one implanted 2 weeks ago and it was removed a week ago. The most amazing thing. Zero pain for a week it was the first time i did not hurt in about 4 years. soon I should be able to go play again and start losing some of this stinking weight i have slowly putting on.
Sorry you can now have your thread back
Steve

[Spooky]

I had the left trigeminal nerve in my head taken care of by having glycerol injected into it. The needle went through my cheek, into the base of my brain where the trigeminal ganglion is at, and then I was woken up so they could x-ray the procedure while I was sitting. The neurosurgeon injected glycerol into the ganglion and I could feel it moving into every branch of the nerve. Amazing stuff. Besides a scab on my cheek from the 16 gauge needle (8" long...scarier than hell) I had no problems and the trigeminal neuralgia I'd been dealing with for nearly 10 years was gone. :mrgreen:

I didn't use narcotics for that kind of nerve pain, though, because they didn't work. I had to use anti-seizure meds, which DID make me high in an awful way. Double vision, stumbling around...terrible stuff.

I think when you're in that kind of pain, especially with nerve pain, you'll do just about anything to make it end. I've never judged anybody for taking anything...not after experiencing trigeminal neuralgia.

[Ih8grvty]

Jesus please us!
You got pain pills for that?
about 8 years ago I was doing some free climbing on a small wall near where I lived. No ropes, only about 30 feet high at the top and pretty easy on most parts to climb.
I fell from about 3 feet below the top and landed, rolled back, smacked my head on a rock and busted it open.
My ankle was the size of my thigh.
I knew I was hurt. cleaned up the blood and tied a bandanna around my head to keep blood out of my eyes and drove my truck home with out ever using the clutch! You better know how to drive a stick to pull that one off! ten miles (mostly highway) and I was home. super glued the eyebrow shut and laid down. Got the shoe off, and then it hurt even more!
3 days later I decided it was broken and not just sprained. Called a friend who had made a 60 mile round trip drive 2 times to bring me smokes and booze while I laid off and was trapped at home. She took me to the hospital and it was broken, cracked through the metatarsals in the top of my left foot and made a few new bone chips in the joint as well.
I had kept it packed in ice for most of that time and they got a cast on it before I left.
I got jack for pain killers!
They told me to take tylenol!
Now that the bones are set the pain will ease off, you just need over the counter meds!
that foot hurt for another 3 weeks before it ever stopped throbbing and hurting.


I got a whole lecture on drug abuse and the fact my list of drugs I once did is to long to list its easier to list the ones I never test drove. I'll save that lecture in case anyone really needs it and what it does to you. At this point be glad you got pain meds. Now be glad you got off them before your brain got broken and started finding ways to keep you on them.

[REDFOX]

I took my pain pills for 3 days after some recent surgery. I can't stand the feeling of loss of control. I quit taking them also because of the side affects. I can't even comprehend how someone could become addicted to pain pills, but I know that many do. I think that I will just save them for any future accidents that could occur.

[Ih8grvty]

Definitely wouldn't have burned them. Ya put them in a safe keeping spot until the next time you get back from a canyoneering trip and your feet are blistered, your muscles are aching, and you feel the oncoming of a nasty cold. They also make a sweet addition to your possibles bag...


My feelings exactly!

Iv had every pain pill known to man! Wish I had more of them!
I had some oxy, lasted me over a year with only 20 pills.
If you can not control when and how much you take, best to never take them a second time. If ever a script is offered to me by a doc I fill it, never turn them down, I might not really need it now, but I will sooner or later.
I keep them with the guns, under lock and key, never in the medicine cabinet, I got kids in high school and I know the crap I did then, best to make sure they can never repeat my mistakes.

[rockgremlin]

I chased this thread down as it is currently relevant.

So my dad ended up in the hospital last week with Pancreatitis. He's still there now, and they've been treating his pain with Dilaudid and Oxycodone against their will. I say against their will because my dad will be laying in bed, writhing from the pain and moaning and groaning, and they always suggest that he first take Tylenol. He has to specifically ask for narcotics before they'll grudgingly comply. He's been there for almost a week, and now they're going to discharge him with ZERO pain medication. Nevermind that he's still in crippling pain.

I mean, if he could treat his pain with Tylenol he wouldn't be in the hospital. Hello.....?

This "Opiademic" has gotten way out of control. Are there people out there that abuse the system for narcotics? Sure, but folks like my dad who are in legitimate need are the losers in this situation.

I have several friends who live on the shadier side of the law who could pretty easily get narcotics underhandedly....is that the route we need to consider? It's pretty sad that the medical community is driving normal folks to the streets to get what they can't obtain by legal channels.

So what now? What do you do when your doctor refuses pain management and you don't have a rock star medical attorney in the family? Just suck it up? Just live in excruciating pain because God forbid they prescribe an Opiate? This is ridiculous.

Help.....

[Sombeech]

While there is valid concern of the Opioid epidemic, most of the opinions are ill informed. Fentanyl is to blame for the majority of famous "opiod" overdoses in the past 4 years, not the prescription Percocet and Lortab.

His best bet is to go see a pain physician, and confirm before the appointment that they do prescribe opioids. These will also be the very same experts to help come down and ease off of the medication with minor withdrawals.

In my experienced opinion, most of the opioid addictions come from surgery patients, given 60 -120 pills without any instruction of how to taper down at the end. They run out, and all of a sudden have this addiction they were not aware of. To the streets now. What's that, pills are a dollar per milligram of oxy? 10 bucks per Percocet 10? Well how about Heroin? My guy sells that too, but it's more effective for less money. I don't want to inject it, I'm not a "drug user". I'll just smoke it.

And so on.

The public is misinformed of how this crisis began. Opioid medication has a sure place in medicine, it helps a lot of people out, responsible people.

For those that don't know what Kratom is, it's the best thing to use when you're out of opiates. It gets expensive though, but hopefully your dad can find some use for it and come off of opiates.

[Sombeech]

This is an interesting excerpt from somebody who knows the molecular makeup of opiates.

Language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9SIjuHaiXA

It is from this larger podcast. He explains how Fentanyl was created, by whom, and why. He actually had very good intentions, trying to help opiate addicts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM8WDZIhs3M

[Sandstone Addiction]

I was wondering if the docs are starting to hold back prescribing painkillers because of all the negative publicity....

That scares the hell out of me as I was very thankful for the Percocet prescribed to me after my ACL reconstruction. I've had a few other times I was thankful as well. Truly a miracle drug to manage pain.

All they need to do is stop prescribing so many at one time.

[rockgremlin]

Well I'm here to tell ya -- if you go into the hospital for anything that requires pain medication you're screwed. They push Tylenol like candy, but will only grudgingly administer narcotics -- even if you're groaning and writhing in pain. Right, like if you're in such agony that you're literally writhing and moaning, Tylenol is not going to do shit.

It's like they assume that everyone who goes into the hospital complaining of pain symptoms are drug seekers, only out to get a fix.

And if by some miracle they do administer narcotics, you better pray that you don't need them once you're discharged from the hospital. My dad was finally discharged yesterday, after a week of hell. Guess what they gave him for pain should it return?

Nothing...absolutely F'ing nothing.

Sick and tired of reading about the "Opiate Crisis" every week in the news. Cuz now it's gotten to the point where doctors just refuse to prescribe any narcotics for pain.....period. So, if you're in pain, oh well...sucks for you.

I stayed with my dad overnight twice and he even had a nurse one night who adamantly claimed that "she couldn't give him anything but Tylenol for his pain." Even though he was very clearly in pain. Red faced, moaning, and writhing in pain.

My dad's a damned Vietnam veteran, he doesn't fit the mold of "drug seeking junkie out for a fix." Give the man some F'ing pain killers, he fought for your country!"

I mean -- what recourse does anybody have in a situation like that? Seriously...
Scott Card - is there a legal channel that could be pursued in situations like this?

Something's gotta give..

[Scott Card]

I don't know of any way to get opiates except by prescription. Get another doctor. Is there a history of opiate use with your father? Was his treatment at the V.A.? I am only asking because I have not heard of this type of behavior. If he has something on his chart or record that may be a reason for not prescribing. I also have heard the V.A. is pretty skidish on opiate prescriptions. I know the pendulum is swinging back towards not prescribing, but I had not heard that it had swung that far. I know when my mom passed away a couple of months ago, they had no problem giving her morphine to keep her comfortable while she died.

[rockgremlin]

I don't know of any way to get opiates except by prescription. Get another doctor. Is there a history of opiate use with your father? Was his treatment at the V.A.? I am only asking because I have not heard of this type of behavior. If he has something on his chart or record that may be a reason for not prescribing. I also have heard the V.A. is pretty skidish on opiate prescriptions. I know the pendulum is swinging back towards not prescribing, but I had not heard that it had swung that far. I know when my mom passed away a couple of months ago, they had no problem giving her morphine to keep her comfortable while she died.

This was the IHC medical complex just off I-15 in Murray. My dad has zero history with opiates. None whatsoever.

When he was first admitted they gave him morphine, but that didn't do anything. His pain was so intense that two shots of morphine didn't even touch the pain. Finally they put him on Dilaudid (Hydromorphone) which is extremely strong stuff. But he had to plead with them to readminister the dose or the pain would come flooding back. But before they did, they would always want to just give him Tylenol. I swear, they must own stock in Tylenol, because that's always their go-to medication in every situation.

If my dad were somebody of fame or fortune there's no way he would've been done like that. Do you think celebrities writhe in pain when they go to the hospital? #MichaelJackson

[Sombeech]

I think if I were dying of cancer, had 1 month left to live, and requested opiates to make life comfortable, I'm pretty sure there would still be a stink about giving them out.

Ooh... don't want to get addicted to them with 1 month to live. Yikes, let's try Essential Oils instead.

https://pics.me.me/got-some-essential-oils-doing-their-work-hells-ya-bruh-17229683.png

[rockgremlin]

THIS IS WHY THERE'S A DRUG PROBLEM IN AMERICA!!!

Because people will eventually go to the streets to get what is legally being denied to them.

"Opiate" has now become a byword defining immorality and criminal behavior. The use of them should be shunned and avoided, because only dirty, skeeving, fiending, street vagrants use opiates now. Anyone else should rise above their use, and shame be upon anyone who should find themselves in a situation of need for them.

My moral scruples go right out the window when it comes to watching a loved one writhe in pain because they're being denied medication. I'm willing to go to whatever means necessary...and really, who wouldn't?

[Iceaxe]

Here's why your father can't get proper medication.... it seems the hospitals have set opioid prescriptions at an arbitrary number and it's no longer based on need.... and to top it off it's a bragging point to them... I guess your dad should have got there earlier before they hit their quota for the day....

Intermountain Healthcare cuts prescribed opioids by 30 percent
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=46495385&nid=960

[rockgremlin]

Yeah I read that. Makes me sick. Some lady's son died from an overdose. Yeah, tragic. But don't punish the thousands of us out there with legitimate need.

The comments section is full of folks like me who are sick of being denied much needed medication.

[Scott Card]

Like I said, get another doctor. The opiate problem is real, which creates a major dilemma. I just got off the phone about 10 minutes ago with a person who is about to go through a divorce due to an opiate addiction. This person lost family and spouse. But to blanket-state that it is a good thing to reduce opiates across the board seems to be a bad policy. Doctors should be closely monitoring individual patients on opiates but when there is a need, doctors should be free to prescribe. This is a tough issue and heart breaking for those in need. Sorry, Rock for what you and your father are going through. One other possible help, I had a client who went to this website https://www.endo-c.com/ and is doing the study. In 30 days he went from 5 opiates a day to 3. It is a medical grade CBD pill and part of a sanctioned medical study. This stuff seems to really work for chronic pain. It may help take the edge off for your dad. Full disclosure: I am legal council for this company.

[rockgremlin]

But to blanket-state that it is a good thing to reduce opiates across the board seems to be a bad policy. Doctors should be closely monitoring individual patients on opiates but when there is a need, doctors should be free to prescribe.


YES!!! Totally agree!!

So we followed the repeated advice of you and others to seek another doctor, and it has paid dividends. He managed to find a doctor who prescribed a pretty large quantity of Percocet 10's. That shocked the socks off me. Usually, if a doctor is going to prescribe they won't approve a large quantity all at once, but he did. I'm really relieved that he found this doctor because I have never in my entire life seen my dad in this kind of pain. It was surreal. The primal urge to deliver relief to a close family member in that degree of agony surpasses everything...even laws and ethics. The fact that others -- qualified physicians trained in their field -- couldn't see that was even more unbelievable.

Whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath? Just goes right out the window in times of Opiate crisis, huh?

Gonna check out the CBD option, thanks for the suggestion.

[tallsteve]

My dad just passed away last Sunday night due to a double stroke he had January 1st. He was in a lot of pain the last two weeks. The skilled nursing facility he was at in Ogden was pretty good about keeping his pain managed, even with him not able to speak. I think they realized (like we did) that he wasn't going to recover so, they wanted to keep him comfortable. After he went comatose Sunday morning, they gave him a dose of morphine every hour. We were grateful for that.
I have been having serious chronic back pain the last 3 weeks. I didn't do anything to it that I know of, other than slow tipping over on my fatbike a couple of times. I've tried everything- stretching, yoga, massaging and lots of ibuprofin and tylenol. Nothing has helped. I finally ordered some CBD oil capsules from a reputable company out of Colorado. I have taken one capsule per day for only two days now and I am totally pain free! I am astounded that it has worked and worked so fast!

[rockgremlin]

^^^ Sorry about your dad.

About the CBD - have you noticed any other effects? A co-worker of mine also ordered CBD from Colorado to treat his anxiety.

[tallsteve]

I haven't noticed any side effects whatsoever, then again I've only been on them for two days.

[uintafly]

My dad just passed away last Sunday night due to a double stroke he had January 1st. He was in a lot of pain the last two weeks. The skilled nursing facility he was at in Ogden was pretty good about keeping his pain managed, even with him not able to speak. I think they realized (like we did) that he wasn't going to recover so, they wanted to keep him comfortable. After he went comatose Sunday morning, they gave him a dose of morphine every hour. We were grateful for that.
I have been having serious chronic back pain the last 3 weeks. I didn't do anything to it that I know of, other than slow tipping over on my fatbike a couple of times. I've tried everything- stretching, yoga, massaging and lots of ibuprofin and tylenol. Nothing has helped. I finally ordered some CBD oil capsules from a reputable company out of Colorado. I have taken one capsule per day for only two days now and I am totally pain free! I am astounded that it has worked and worked so fast!

I'm sorry to hear about your dad tallsteve. It no doubt has been a tough few months for you.

[Sombeech]

So we followed the repeated advice of you and others to seek another doctor, and it has paid dividends. He managed to find a doctor who prescribed a pretty large quantity of Percocet 10's.

So how many private messages are you getting now, asking which doctor it was :haha:

[Sombeech]

My dad just passed away last Sunday night

Sorry bud

[rockgremlin]

You guys won't believe the unmitigated nonsense that this thing just morphed into. Absolutely unfriggin believable.

I've spent the day in the emergency room and I don't have time to expound, but oh hell...

:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

[Sombeech]

You guys won't believe the unmitigated nonsense that this thing just morphed into. Absolutely unfriggin believable.

I've spent the day in the emergency room and I don't have time to expound, but oh hell...

:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

Involving the prescription he recently received?

[Iceaxe]

I believe it... I've ran the refuse to prescribe opiate gauntlet with me father... it's a long story but it has an ugly ending so there is that.

[rockgremlin]

So my dad is discharged from the hospital and five days later he's just feeling sick, bloated, no appetite, and in pain of course. He's really lethargic and doesn't have enough energy to get up and walk around. So his doctor calls wanting an update...he recommends we go back to the hospital. So we go to the emergency room, and sit there for 4 hours while 5 different nurses and two different doctors ask him a bunch of questions and run a bunch of tests. Finally, the attending doctor comes in and the first question out of his mouth is asking about what medications he's taking. We tell him he's taking an antibiotic, something for his bloating, and Percocet 5mg. My mom is the "keeper of the meds," administering them as directed on the label, and his last Percocet dose (5mg) was 6 hours ago, at 8:00am. So, the attending hems and haws and then, using his vast medical knowledge and training concludes that the probable reason for my dad's condition "was the medication."

Shocked, but keeping myself composed I clarified: "So he's back in the hospital because of the 5mg of Percocet he took this morning?"

He replied that he was almost positive that was true, and then left. Before he got out the door, I insisted that it couldn't have been the Percocet. That fell on deaf ears, because 20 minutes later his nurse comes in and declares that she's "gonna give him some medication, and then we'll see...." My mom asks what the medication is...

"It's a medication called 'Narcan'" she says....

It was at that point that I erupted. They couldn't find what was wrong with my dad so they decided to pin it on Opiates, and treat him for Opiate drug overdose. :facepalm1:

I kept insisting that couldn't possibly be the case. The nurse insisted that "I'd be surprised..."

So, she administers Narcan, expecting my dad's eyes to pop open and suddenly arise from his bed like Lazarus. 1 minute goes by, 5, 10.....nothing. No change.

"Guess it's not an overdose, like I insisted, huh....?!" :roll:

Lesson learned: Do not go to the IHC hospital in Murray, since they are mostly incompetent.

[Sombeech]

So what happened next? I hope they didn't discharge him after Narcan, did they continue to troubleshoot?

[rockgremlin]

So what happened next? I hope they didn't discharge him after Narcan, did they continue to troubleshoot?


Nope. They just shrugged their shoulders and discharged him. They couldn't find what was wrong with him, and their only theory of opiate overdose was debunked, so they had nothing left to do but to let him walk.

Honestly, my dad could have gotten better medical treatment from my nephew's treehouse doctor's office, with leaves for band-aids, and Life-Savers for pills. Would have been much cheaper, and the result would have been the same.

It still just irks me that their #1 go-to diagnosis right off the bat was an opiate overdose -- contrary to the insistence of two people who have intimate knowledge of this patient for decades. It's like they first assume that whatever case that walks through their door must first be assumed to be opiate overdose, and if that's not the case then consider other options.

NOT saying that I would, but what exactly is the basis for a malpractice claim? Because the level of "care" received by my dad was abysmal at best. And the kicker is that my parents get to pay for that crap. If their care were served up as a dish at a restaurant it would've been sent back to the kitchen and payment refused.

:soapbox:

[devo_stevo]

I'm sorry you're going through this. At least nobody called the police to arrest your mom for being his dealer or something.

[accadacca]

It’s starts with pain pills...

——

Meth seizure valued at $612,000 on the street, police say

https://www.ksl.com/article/46537135/meth-seizure-valued-at-612000-on-the-street-police-say

[accadacca]

[shaking my head..]

———

Wasp spray used as meth alternative, contributed to three overdoses

https://www.abc4.com/news/national/wasp-spray-used-as-meth-alternative-contributed-to-three-overdoses/

[rockgremlin]

Wow.

Still not as outrageous as huffing poop though...

[Sombeech]

What kind of trailer park scientist discovers these alternatives?

[accadacca]

Tyler Skaggs' toxicology shows late Angels pitcher had fentanyl, oxycodone, alcohol in his system at time of death. He was 27.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/angels/2019/08/30/tyler-skaggs-death-opioids-alcohol-toxicology-angels/2167436001/

[Scott Card]

Fentanyl is the atomic bomb of killer drugs. It is truly the devil. Bad, BAD stuff.

[rockgremlin]

Speaking of Fentanyl, why can't they use that as a lethal injection drug? Why do they have to use some complex, over complicated cocktail in lethal injections? Just load them up with a bunch of Fentanyl.

[Iceaxe]

...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191023/0c8970bb2a5e44901c6465411fb98157.jpg

Climb-Utah.com

[rockgremlin]

^^^So true^^^


Tony Soprano agrees:



https://www.yarn.co/yarn-clip/52176022-f35b-46a7-8f71-3e69712c0540