The Sandtrap

[shaggy125]

I was able to get out on a 10 day trip this month including 7 days on Lake
Powell doing explorations and barely betad canyons. On this trip I was able to
use the sandtrap for the first time. After being shown how to set it up I had
some of the others watch me set it up once or twice to make sure I didn't miss
anything. After this I felt confident setting it up by myself wherever we felt
the geometry was favorable. It is very quick and easy to use.

It doesn't work at every drop but is useful in so many more spots than any other
ghosting technique I've used in the past. The least favorable place to use one
is a chockstone choked constriction as the trap can get tangled in the rocks,
however these are generally the easiest places to throw a sling around one of
those chockstones. Places where you would normally need to build a deadman or
carin anchor (anchors that usually take the most time to build) is usually an
ideal spot to use it, saving HUGE amounts of time. One canyon we did had 9
rappels, all of them off the sandtrap. We would have been in the canyon twice
as long if we were building anchors at all these drops.

The sandtrap is the greatest invention for canyoneering since tubular webbing in
my opinion, it's amazing once you learn how to use it and know its limitations
(don't get too carried away trying to leave no trace or you will get it stuck).
Always back it up until the last person and make sure you don't accidentaly pull
on the pull cord on rappel (that would dump the sand and be very bad).

http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/product.php?productid=16406

[mrbrejcha]

The sandtrap is the greatest invention for canyoneering since tubular webbing in
my opinion, it's amazing once you learn how to use it and know its limitations

I'll second that. I had saw one of these in action through No Kidding. It's a great tool to have in the bag (the pulls on big raps are great)!

[ratagonia]

I'll second that. I had saw one of these in action through No Kidding. It's a great tool to have in the bag (the pulls on big raps are great)!

Before Mark gets all Chevron on me - OK man, I got one for ya. Go ahead and purchase the completion and I'll send it right out.

For the rest of you, probably not available until May 30th ish. Doesn't mean you can't order it - just means you won't get it until it's actually made.

Tom :moses: :cool2:

[shaggy125]

People on the canyons group have been asking for pictures. Here is a link to one of Dan's albums with pictures. I also added a photo with a description of how it works.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/

33471

[mrbrejcha]

Before Mark gets all Chevron on me - OK man, I got one for ya. Go ahead and purchase the completion and I'll send it right out.

Tom :moses: :cool2:

Oh, man, Ted...I just dropped some serious coin on a #6 camalot :naughty:!!!! Maybe with the next paycheck!

[Iceaxe]

OK... so what does this bad boy cost?

While I admire the ingenuity I'm not a big fan of releasable anchors that drain my pocket book when they fail to release.... at least not when a rock and $1 worth of webbing can be used....

Actually I don't think I've bought webbing in the last 10 years.... I get plenty when cleaning up rat nests I find in the canyons....

[ratagonia]

OK... so what does this bad boy cost?


One hundred American dollars, less five cents. And, not available until June 1st at the earliest. Orders coming in will be numbered sequentially, and ship in the order received. Started cutting fabric today, but the straps to finish the things won't arrive until May 20th.

Tom :moses:

[scubabryan]

That is a pretty slick design Tom. Question, wouldn't it be smarter to run the rope THROUGH a carabiner or quick link instead of tying your rope directly to the straps? If for some reason, the sand trap gets stuck or doesn't dump the sand or release right, at least you can still retrieve your rope if its simply ran through a quick link instead of tied??

[Don]

Not sure what I think. I'd like to see it in action sometime though...

[Cirrus2000]

I'm totally sold on the thing, except that at the rate I do canyons, it would be pretty darn expensive per canyon. Hmmmmm. I've got some canyons before June 1, then nothing planned technical canyon-wise until FreezeFest. Kind of not worth getting right now for me. On the other hand, buying gear = good...

[Don]

On the other hand, buying gear = good...

Listen, Kev, the reason we're all gathered together this evening is that we need to have a talk about addiction... Gear Junkie! :haha:

[ratagonia]

That is a pretty slick design Tom. Question, wouldn't it be smarter to run the rope THROUGH a carabiner or quick link instead of tying your rope directly to the straps? If for some reason, the sand trap gets stuck or doesn't dump the sand or release right, at least you can still retrieve your rope if its simply ran through a quick link instead of tied??

Don't use it in places where it might get stuck. Seriously, it is wonderful in more-open places, less wonderful in constricted places where slotting in a chockstone might be a better idea.

You certainly CAN loop the rope through the rapid link or biner on the tie-in points, but it is rarely necessary.

Tom :moses:

[moab mark]

Not sure what I think. I'd like to see it in action sometime though...

Don, as i see it just don't be the lightest guy in the group. :haha:

[Don]

Don, as i see it just don't be the lightest guy in the group. :haha:

Well, I've got that covered.

[neumannbruce]

Wyodave brought up a good point (on the yahoo group) about rope grooves using this contraption. Something to think about.

[moab mark]

People on the canyons group have been asking for pictures. Here is a link to one of Dan's albums with pictures. I also added a photo with a description of how it works.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35831538@N00/sets/72157622673362937/

33471

Eric,

Just curious have you got any idea how much the trap in the picture weighs?

Mark

[Iceaxe]

How about a "Water Trap"?

We played around with a Water Trap made from a dry bag about 10 years ago. The idea worked and had a lot of potential, but everyone playing with it kinda lost interest after awhile and moved along to other projects.

We tried a couple different methods. First method was obvious... Pull the rip chord and the water drains out of your anchor allowing you to retrieve the Water Trap.... but... the method we had a lot of success with and was the most fun to play with was actually a small hole in the bottom of the Water Trap. The hole was like a fuse.... you had so many minutes to complete your rappel because when the water drained everything was coming down.

Anyhoo.... food for thought....

[ratagonia]

Wyodave brought up a good point (on the yahoo group) about rope grooves using this contraption. Something to think about.

It would be more accurate to say that WyoDave (who has not used it) brought up a potential concern. The SandTrap is likely to produce as little grooving as possible - the only way to leave less is to not descend the canyon.

Tom



Dan's/Eric's picture is unusual in that it shows a piece of webbing for the pull
cord. Usually, one would rig a rope from the trap for the rappel, and a rope
from the trap for the pull. No webbing involved.

Rope grooving is be minimal. The length of pull under load is perhaps 10 feet
at most. More grooving comes on the rappel side, as the Trap bounces a bit as
people rappel. Going over the edge, the rope is usually damp and covered with
sand, so it is a very good cutting tool.

Tom

--- In canyons@yahoogroups.com, "davewyo1" <davewyo1@...> wrote:
>
> So, if you're setting the Trap back upcanyon a bit on various rappels and the
length to the edge of the drop naturally varies too, are you setting different
lengths of webbing for each drop to facilitate the rope pulling?
> What about rope grooves from the pull cord?
> Does it pull so easy that grooves aren't a concern?
>
> Dave

[Brian in SLC]

It would be more accurate to say that WyoDave (who has not used it) brought up a potential concern. The SandTrap is likely to produce as little grooving as possible - the only way to leave less is to not descend the canyon.

Or to, ahem, leave a well-located permanent fixed anchor...

Great looking device. I'm usually all about beeyotchin' with regard to the fragile pothole ecology being disrupted by the digging efforts of the rock and debris burying herds, but, surface sand looks like really minimal disturbance. Given the large amount of sand in some of the potholes, perfect.

As far as rope groovin' goes, popular canyons are goin' to get 'em with any anchor that sets back from an edge. Wonder if a wider, flat strap, or, maybe extend a tarp or sheet past the edge might help? Cord seems worse for groovin'. Wide flat webbing might be better.

If there were a way to empty it without pulling hard? Like releasing a trap door? Dunno. Does make me want to think about it though.

Anyhoo, pretty cool lookin' rig.

Edit to add...just got a thought... If you built the trap so the middle was pinched way way down, and the sand stayed in it due to the geometry of the ends, when loaded with a person's weight, then when the rappeller was off, the tarp/trap would sag back naturally, and dump the load... Maybe? That might reduce rope grooves some because you wouldn't have to pull hard on the middle of the bag, just release the load on the ends, and the sand would pour out.

Hmmmm....

-Brian in SLC

[EvergreenDean]

Just got back from three days on Powell using the sand trap almost exclusively. It is an amazing tool. We did blow out the pull cord on our last pull, but Steve W had a pretty good theory. This particular specimen had webbing as its pull, where Steve's original used rope. The webbing sitting under all that sand created too much friction due to larger surface area being weighted. The roped version never had any trouble. Tom, I want one but I want the old style with the rope pull. Unless you think that theory is nonsense...

[ratagonia]

Just got back from three days on Powell using the sand trap almost exclusively. It is an amazing tool. We did blow out the pull cord on our last pull, but Steve W had a pretty good theory. This particular specimen had webbing as its pull, where Steve's original used rope. The webbing sitting under all that sand created too much friction due to larger surface area being weighted. The roped version never had any trouble. Tom, I want one but I want the old style with the rope pull. Unless you think that theory is nonsense...

That theory is nonsense. There is another tie in point if the nonsensical would want to use a rope for the pull cord. I am dubious of the utility of the Tostada form, rather than the Taco form.

T :moses:

[jman]

Edit to add...just got a thought... If you built the trap so the middle was pinched way way down, and the sand stayed in it due to the geometry of the ends, when loaded with a person's weight, then when the rappeller was off, the tarp/trap would sag back naturally, and dump the load... Maybe? That might reduce rope grooves some because you wouldn't have to pull hard on the middle of the bag, just release the load on the ends, and the sand would pour out.


Took me a sec to visualize, but I agree that it would create less rope grooves with your method. It just would require more rope if it was attached to both ends, but with that, it just depends on the canyon and situation.

Would be fun to test this out sometime...

[ratagonia]

Edit to add...just got a thought... If you built the trap so the middle was pinched way way down, and the sand stayed in it due to the geometry of the ends, when loaded with a person's weight, then when the rappeller was off, the tarp/trap would sag back naturally, and dump the load... Maybe? That might reduce rope grooves some because you wouldn't have to pull hard on the middle of the bag, just release the load on the ends, and the sand would pour out.

Hmmmm....

-Brian in SLC

And wouldn't cars be great if they had SIX WHEELS!!!! :haha:

Tom :moses:

[Brian in SLC]

Took me a sec to visualize, but I agree that it would create less rope grooves with your method. It just would require more rope if it was attached to both ends, but with that, it just depends on the canyon and situation.

Could still use straps that came together, and the same amount of rope, methinks.

Another thought was that a bucket type rig might work. I'm kinda thinkin' one of those mad rock rope buckets (or a collapsable type). If you rapped off the top, full of sand, then, kept tension with a pull cord attached to the bottom, when you took your weight off the top, maybe it'd tip over and empty.

Some three wheel car designs look promising...(and, cars have been around a few years, last I checked).

Be a fun camp project to play around with...

[EvergreenDean]

Tom, knew I could count on you to set us straight. OK, I'll take a current edition Sandtrap when they are ready. BTW, we only used the "taco" form when a lip was present to butt against. "Tostada" was the method for non-lipped platforms. Have you tested both methods on a flat surface with no lip or rise to set against? The explanation I received was that the larger surface area hence more friction was needed when there was no feature on the set up area that the sandtrap could lean against.

[ratagonia]

Tom, knew I could count on you to set us straight. OK, I'll take a current edition Sandtrap when they are ready. BTW, we only used the "taco" form when a lip was present to butt against. "Tostada" was the method for non-lipped platforms. Have you tested both methods on a flat surface with no lip or rise to set against? The explanation I received was that the larger surface area hence more friction was needed when there was no feature on the set up area that the sandtrap could lean against.

Flat surface, no dimple - problematic. The key is using more sand. It is easier to use more sand in Tostada form, but the Taco form has an easier clean. I think the best thing in the "flat" is to build a berm of sand and put the Taco behind it. Best of both worlds.

Tom

[sasteve49]

Hi All, I have used the Maxxi-Pad as I originally called it more times than anyone except Jonathan Zambella of ZAC here in Springdale. I got tired of the constant splitting of potshots on the pulls so thought of a solution to the long setup times and pulls. My first thoughts were of friction, surface area and weight. Thus was born the Maxxi-Pad.(aka sandtrap, Tom's politically correct name). I designed it and my wife Maria, being an FAA Rigger, sewed it up. The original thought was to lay it flat and pile sand on it, then I figured for hanging behind lips as well. I found that a rope tied to the loop worked better than the webbing for the pull, less surface and friction. So now I have produced the final version of the 'Pad and offer it for sale to those who have dissected the concept and realize it's potential. It is manufactured by a professional FAA Rigger who for 15 years produced backpacks, webbing belts, parachute bags and static lines for the Military and Special Forces. He also developed, manufactured and tested parachutes for NASA. This dude knows his stuff. I have known him as a fellow skydive Instructor for over 20 years. I have done many Powell Canyons on it along with Ram who likes it a lot. I will post vids as soon as someone shows me how to do that on Bogley.

[sasteve49]

Coming from you Tom, that is actually insulting. We have much more experience with the MAXXI-Pad than you and as I invented the damn thing, I know what it can do. So your idea is nonsense. I use your book on many occasions here in Zion and it is certainly handy,but stick to your own expertise...........

[moab mark]

Hi All, I have used the Maxxi-Pad as I originally called it more times than anyone except Jonathan Zambella of ZAC here in Springdale. I got tired of the constant splitting of potshots on the pulls so thought of a solution to the long setup times and pulls. My first thoughts were of friction, surface area and weight. Thus was born the Maxxi-Pad.(aka sandtrap, Tom's politically correct name). I designed it and my wife Maria, being an FAA Rigger, sewed it up. The original thought was to lay it flat and pile sand on it, then I figured for hanging behind lips as well. I found that a rope tied to the loop worked better than the webbing for the pull, less surface and friction. So now I have produced the final version of the 'Pad and offer it for sale to those who have dissected the concept and realize it's potential. It is manufactured by a professional FAA Rigger who for 15 years produced backpacks, webbing belts, parachute bags and static lines for the Military and Special Forces. He also developed, manufactured and tested parachutes for NASA. This dude knows his stuff. I have known him as a fellow skydive Instructor for over 20 years. I have done many Powell Canyons on it along with Ram who likes it a lot. I will post vids as soon as someone shows me how to do that on Bogley.

:ne_nau: Are there now two different sandtraps available? Or are you selling the same one that Tom is selling?

[sasteve49]

I have decided to sell my own professionally manufactured MaxxiPad. It is of very sturdy construction and will outlast anything else out there. The webbing is double sleeved for max protection and it is a one piece design, no split down the middle. I have videos that I would like to post if someone will show me how.

[Cirrus2000]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: