Neon Conditions?

[david_mcnay]

I'm planning on doing Neon Canyon at the end of the month. Has anyone been down this year yet, or know what the conditions might be like?
Thanks!

David

[ratagonia]

I'm planning on doing Neon Canyon at the end of the month. Has anyone been down this year yet, or know what the conditions might be like?
Thanks!

David

Wet, wet, wet... and cold. Even the sport entrance includes two 100 foot long or more swims. Wear a lot of rubber.

Then again, don't have to worry about the keepa'.

Tom :moses:

[River]

Check out Dan's recent TR here:
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?38679-TR-Choprock-and-Neon-3-22-2010

[Wasatch]

Yup, wet and cold for sure.

[CarpeyBiggs]

what entry are you going to take? there are some long freakin' swims right now. we went in well above the sport routes, and we were COLD. walked in water most of the way, and there were at least two swims that were 5-10 minutes long. I wore a 4/3 full, with a shorty over the top. Hands were stinging like a mo-fo. We'd stop after the big swims in the sun to warm up.

however, it was a rather cold day for us too. it was like 60 degrees, maybe cooler. so if you get warmer weather, it will be manageable.

Take a lot of neo. And take a knife and some webbing to clean out that mess at the golden cathedral. I know, I know, I should've done it myself... I think there was some serious disappointment when i lost my camera to the water just before the final rap. Damn!

[carverbc]

<And take a knife and some webbing to clean out that mess at the golden cathedral. I know, I know, I should've done it myself... I think there was some serious disappointment when i lost my camera to the water just before the final rap.>

Yep, it haunts me too,that we didn't clean up the mess at the last rap. Too cold, Dan's camera loss... excuses. Still, poor form. There is plenty of webbing to work with at the rap. Just need a knife and a bit of time to unbraid the mess and retie. There are at least 2 rings in place. One very scary the other hanging from a [FONT=Verdana]macram

[Brian in SLC]

[QUOTE=carverbc;397870Yep, it haunts me too,that we didn't clean up the mess at the last rap. Too cold, Dan's camera loss... excuses. Still, poor form. There is plenty of webbing to work with at the rap. Just need a knife and a bit of time to unbraid the mess and retie. There are at least 2 rings in place. One very scary the other hanging from a [FONT=Verdana]macram

[CarpeyBiggs]

damn, if we would've just had brian there!

so, why don't you go bolt the place? it clearly needs it.

[Brian in SLC]

so, why don't you go bolt the place? it clearly needs it.

Unfortunately, not everyone agrees.

It has been bolted, then, someone sent a purty little message by smashing the hangers flat and rendering the bolts unusable. Ugly.

I've done it with the gross webbing that I think is a much bigger impact than the bolts. Not super interested in getting in a bolt war down there, mostly because I seldom get to the Escalante, and, if I do, then I probably wouldn't repeat Neon again. Not that I don't think it a worthy canyon, its just that I haven't done a bunch of stuff in that area...

Fortunately or unfortunatley, the current state of affairs makes for good 'net spray on style and ethics.

I seem to recall I did drill a hole out near there, and fill it with a baby angle piton, although I suspect its long gone...

From an aesthetic standpoint, as well as impact, I think a bolted anchor at that last rappel makes a ton of sense. Will I go bolt it? Nah. Would I applaud someone who did? Sure. Would I be bummed if the anchor got chopped? Sure. And so on...

Takes a lot less time and energy to just bitch about the situation on the 'net...ha ha.

Why don't YOU bolt it? Especially if you think it clearly needs it.

[mdd]

Takes a lot less time and energy to just bitch about the situation on the 'net...ha ha.

Reminds me of a quote (paraphrased) by a friend of mine who has put in several hundred sport routes over the last few decades, some with controversy. "While everyone is at home bitching about my bolts on the internet, I'll be out climbing, and putting more bolts in..."

There are a lot of subtle truths in that quote.


M

[CarpeyBiggs]

Takes a lot less time and energy to just bitch about the situation on the 'net...ha ha.

Why don't YOU bolt it? Especially if you think it clearly needs it.

well, as one who actually spends a lot of time DOING canyons, instead of bitching about canyons, i can positively say neon is DEFINITELY not one of them that needs a bolt. the natural anchor is more than sufficient. it's the dumbasses like me who don't keep it clean that are the problem.

i actually have few issues with bolts. i just think it's funny you take this chance to start up a bolt-war discussion, when the cathedral would be one of the lamest places to say a bolt anchor is necessary. these same issues arise with terrible rigging, especially in popular canyons, whether it's a bolt or whether it's a natural anchor.

[david_mcnay]

I appreciate all of your input. I had forgotten about the trip report, it is pretty much helpful. I will take a knife and see if we can't clean up some webbing rainbows. Unfortunately, I don't really know how to place a bolt, so I will beg forgiveness for not doing that.
Thanks to all!

[Brian in SLC]

well, as one who actually spends a lot of time DOING canyons, instead of bitching about canyons, i can positively say neon is DEFINITELY not one of them that needs a bolt. the natural anchor is more than sufficient. it's the dumbasses like me who don't keep it clean that are the problem.

i actually have few issues with bolts. i just think it's funny you take this chance to start up a bolt-war discussion, when the cathedral would be one of the lamest places to say a bolt anchor is necessary. these same issues arise with terrible rigging, especially in popular canyons, whether it's a bolt or whether it's a natural anchor.

Ugh. Post didn't take...

Oh well. Smarmy comments and run on's anyhow.

Bolt anchor better at the last rap in Neon IMHO.

But, whatever works for you. The webbing is a bigger impact, and creates more impact. But at least it looks natural...(!).

Have fun!

-Brian in SLC

[carverbc]

I appreciate all of your input. I had forgotten about the trip report, it is pretty much helpful. I will take a knife and see if we can't clean up some webbing rainbows.<snip>
Thanks to all!

Thanks David,
Now, that's solution based thinking!:phew:

[Bo_Beck]

Ugh. Post didn't take...

Oh well. Smarmy comments and run on's anyhow.

Bolt anchor better at the last rap in Neon IMHO.

But, whatever works for you. The webbing is a bigger impact, and creates more impact. But at least it looks natural...(!).

Have fun!

-Brian in SLC

Oh, but how I diss-agree with this statement! Post took here though Brian. Agree bolt better last rap. Never done Neon, so my opinion don't count.

20' of webbing= 240 sq. inches impact (visual).
2 bolts with hangers= ~ 4 sq. inches impact (visual)

see what you mean though about webbing being more natural though; steel certainly is not a natural element.

[Brian in SLC]

20' of webbing= 240 sq. inches impact (visual).
2 bolts with hangers= ~ 4 sq. inches impact (visual)

Its not just the webbing at that last rappel in Neon, per se, its that due to the length of it, and, its situation, it really collects trash from upstream.

Been awhile since I've done Neon (1996). I seem to recall we spent about a 1/2 hour untangling the webbing from all the debris that had accumulated on it. Quite a large pile of flotsam from upstream, and, was apparent that it had created this big swirly eddy at the boulder. Much bigger impact than just a visual on the webbing, but, the creation of a whole new environment complete with a large trash heap of sticks, roots, etc. wrapped around the webbing, and a large kinda circular shaped swirl pattern from the erosion from the trash pile. Maybe in a few years there'll be another hole to rappel through there...

Bolts were there. Impact was finite, but, someone saw fit to smash them instead of removing. Are the studs still there, or, has it been patched up?

Been an ongoing thing for years there, this bolt, unbolt thing. Canyon doesn't see that much traffic, methinks, since its a ways from the road. Really a beauty though, Bo, you should head out that way sometime. Nice long day hike.

Might get a chance to stop by the Rat this weekend if we head that way. Can't wait to see the new place!

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

[Scott Card]

If the volume of junk is so high each time we go there (my experience) that we don't have the desire to clean it, isn't that a reason to bolt? Just sayin'.

[Scopulus]

Bolts were there. Impact was finite, but, someone saw fit to smash them instead of removing. Are the studs still there, or, has it been patched up?


Took this in 2006. I was there again May of last year and it looked about the same from what I recall. There are at least three studs there. The third is just out of the frame to the bottom.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YUay7Dr_zcI/S8aSfBpkzNI/AAAAAAAAGGM/kJQXhoS8fwQ/s800/NeonBolts.jpg

Seems to have gotten quite a bit of traffic last year. The couple of times I was at Egypt last year, the route in to Neon was littered with humans.

Fun canyon. Funner wet.

Steve L.

[DWayne27]

How is it to do Neon not as a backpack? From my reading, it looks like it is about 3 hours from the Egypt trailhead to the mouth of Neon, then another couple hours from the mouth to where you drop in, and then 4-5 hours of fun in the canyon? And after that 3-4 hours coming back up to Egypt trailhead? So start hiking at 7am, drop in to the canyon by 12-1ish, and be on your way back out by 6-7? If we tend to run a little slow of average times that would probably be pushing it, no?

[oldno7]

Just take the time and camp down by fence canyon. It makes the trip much easier than a day hike would.

[Brian in SLC]

How is it to do Neon not as a backpack?

We did it car-to-car in 9 hours, and, didn't feel that rushed. But, we did nail the trail in and out (cross country to the canyon on the way in, then out the Fence way on the way out).

With an early start, pretty doable.

[DWayne27]

Just take the time and camp down by fence canyon. It makes the trip much easier than a day hike would.

We would definitely prefer this option, but our "small" tent is a big heavy 4 man tent, and all our sleeping gear is certainly not compact. For some reason my wife doesnt think this is a good enough reason to buy some new gear that works for backpacking. I will never understand her...

And thanks for the input Brian.

[trackrunner]

tent? ditch the tent go with a light weight tarp & save a few pounds.

[oldno7]

Have to agree with the "hall monitor"
No tent required, you'll thank me on the hike out.
I prefer a therma-rest and light down bag.

I'm not sure how fast this canyon drains, but if the keeper gets down 1'-2'(which it should this year) be prepared.

[DWayne27]

That is the other big question on our mind. Obviously the weather, and the condition of the keeper. I was certainly going to ask around as we get a little closer. Last TR I read, the keeper was totally full and no problem at all. Seems like everything is warming up and draining out. Anyone familiar with the canyon care to venture a guess as to what the conditions will be in 2 weeks?

[Scott Card]

If the weather reports are correct. I will fill again this week....

[ratagonia]

If the weather reports are correct. I will fill again this week....

Going to Chuckarama or something Scott?


If the weather reports are correct. It will fill again this week....

...and generally takes longer than a few weeks to get to the 'obnoxious' stage.

In a day? There are many different places to enter the canyon. Doing it in a day and only getting the "sport route" or the "more fun route" is definitely doable, but I like the idea of going out via Fence Canyon - the slog up the sand pile and across the sand mesa is... a slog. With long days, quite doable. But camping at Fence allows going much higher in the canyon and getting more.

Tom :moses:

[Scott Card]

Going to Chuckaram or something Scott?
whoopsie.... Dang "t" button... But now that you ask, no. Trying to slim down a bit to fit into my wet suit so I don't have to fight it. :haha:

[Scopulus]

But camping at Fence allows going much higher in the canyon and getting more.

How much of the canyon can one do in a long day if beginning from the Fence camp? Does doing the entire canyon require (or demand) an overnight? Is doing the entire canyon better from the head of the canyon with a long vehicle spot, or doable going up and back from the Fence camp? I've never done the upper section. What think ye?