Utah Hunting Application Bonus Points could be a sham

[MY T PIMP]

My dad works as a DWR volunteer once a week in one of the offices here in Utah. He gets alot of inside info. The last bit of information he found out pissed us both off. It seams the bonus point system in the hunting draw is not what it's cracked up to be. Basically it only matters if your one of the few that has the highest point total for your tag. Up until now it was my understanding that a hunting draw you put in for, your name is dropped into the hat as many times as you have bonus points. Now for those of you who don't know what a bonus point is here is the definition. Every time a hunter puts in for a limited entry, cwmu, or once in a life time big game species, they aquire a bonus point if that person does not draw the tag, Inturn the bonus point is supposed to increase one's odds of drawing a tag. Well here's the skibby 1/2 of the tags for a species on a particular unit are allocated to the top bonus point holders, which I think is okay. Right now there are still hunters who havn't drawn a tag with 16 points (max) that means they have put in for that species for 16 years. I have 14 points for elk. Well the part that upsets me is I just found out unless your one of those top point people; any one else has as good as chance as you to draw the remaining tags. And if you are part of the half of top point applicants that dosen't draw you are automatically prevented from competing with the rest of the applicants. My name really isn't dropped in the hat 14 times. I feel like I've been bamboozled.:angryfire:

[Iceaxe]

Are you saying the government isn't doing what they promised?!?!? :eek2:

:haha:

[Riseforms]

It's all right there for you to read. Not sure why you feel you've been misled.
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-062.htm#T8

[accadacca]

I feel like I've been bamboozled.:angryfire:
:lol8: Sounds complicated... :flipa:

[fourtycal]

It's all right there for you to read. Not sure why you feel you've been misled.
http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-062.htm#T8

When it was set up it was indicated that if you do not draw the tag the point awarded would better your chance at drawing the following year. Changes were made on the down low, now there are bonus points and preference points. I still understand preference points increase the odds of drawing each year but it only applies to general buck deer and the guidebook does not get specific about how the odds are increased.

There is no question that the DWR has misled hunters. If elk hunters knew they would have to pay application fees for 16 years before they had a decent chance at drawing a tag, it would definitely stifle the application moneys they receive.

[ilanimaka]

Wow... That alone makes me want to move back to KS.

[MY T PIMP]

Here is the email I sent to the DWR on this issue:

To whom it may concern,

[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]I have been putting in to the draw application for 14 years. It wasn

[ilanimaka]

Any reply yet?

[middlefork]

I don't think he will like the replyhe will get.
During the draw, the computer draws a random number for every bonus point you have. The lowest number is then your number used in the draw. If there are more max point holders than the 50% of available tags, the persons with the lowest numbers will be drawn. The rest are put in the random draw with all other people appyling and the other 50% are drawn by the lowest number first.

Basically all your bonus points do it give you more chances to draw a low number. It has been that way since they started and the information has always been available as to how it works.

And no I do not work for the DWR! I'm just another flustrated sportsman.:nod:

[bobb169]

I think you have just not understood it from the beginning, hasn't changed since "that" revision. They do split the number tags in half, 50% going to the top point holders, that is drawn. Then everyone is in the 2nd half of available tags. And like MF says the computer draws the amount of numbers of points you have and keeps the lowest one for the actual draw. You ARE getting the number of chances for a LOW number according to how many points you have. So if you have 10 points you get ten chances for a lower number than the guy that has 5 points who gets 5 chances. I think its not a bad way. The problem is the number of people putting in, the number of cow or doe tags the have, the number of tags they give out to the "wildlife organizations" and the way the give the "younger hunters" preference treatment. Also if you check, if you do draw and don't like that unit that year you give the tag back before the hunt starts and you get ALL your points back. So if you have the max you can really pick where and when you hunt. I lucked out, drew a limited elk years ago, harvested a trophy class....my one and only elk, don't care to general hunt.

[MY T PIMP]

Yes I did get a reply, however after researching the official copy of the 2007 odds book. It still doesn't make sense. Supposabley you should see consistency in more tags going to higher point holders and I don't. I admit I only researched 50 hunts. But in those 50 hunts outside the max point applicant who automatically recieved 1/2 the tags for an area, according to the books records the other successful applicants were all over the place. After reviewing 50 hunts I believe I should have seen some consitency. Here's the reply:

Don,
your email to dwrcomment was forwarded to me for response.
The drawing, having a variety of different factors (groups, bonus points, etc.) can be fairly complex. It sounds like you have a good grasp of how the 50% are reserved for high points holders. There are a few clarifications that I would like to add though. Using your example, the 20 16-point holders that didn't get the reserved permits will still have a chance at getting the other 20 permits. The drawing happens in different phases to make that possible. The other 50% are available to anyone that has the next best drawing number. Here's the good part for people in the middle (not at max and not at zero): for every point you have, you get assigned a different random drawing number (page 27 of the 2010 Big game guidebook). Anyone with 14 points has a better chance than someone with 1 point based on that aspect of the drawing. The way the drawing is set up now, it rewards the ones with the most, it gives each point group a higher probability than the next point group down, and it lets a 1st timer have some chance at a permit.

If you would like to discuss this further, please contact me via email or at the phone number below.

best regards,


Bryan Christensen
Wildlife Licensing Specialist
Phone 801-538-4844
Fax 801-538-4858

[Sombeech]

Wow, sounds as simple as the Federal Tax Code

[Riseforms]

In most of the hunts I looked at, particularly those with more entrants as it's harder to skew those figures with one tag, odds trended pretty consistently upward with the higher point holders generally drawing more tags.