Final sequence in Heaps -- which device(s)?

[Scott Card]

As a related topic to the accident in Moab thread, I am curious what devices you use on the last two raps in Heaps since the last is free hanging and the second to the last is very close to free hanging? Bo linked an interesting device but the question is what would Bo actually use for the last two raps in Heaps and how did/does he rig his devices?

I guess the second question is how did or would you rig the device for proper friction? Your tonnage (personal weight plus pack weight) would helpful for the discussion.

For those who don't know, the last two raps in Heaps look like about 1000 feet from the top looking down but the distance is really about 450 feet split into two raps, one of about 150 feet and the final rap of about 300 feet free hanging. :popcorn:

[trackrunner]

Well when I was with Bo he did the last two raps using a rack bar. The last rap was a stunt rappel . . . I mean rescue rappel, he did a tandum rappel with another person hanging off him and the device. So he had the weight of him, the victum and their bags.

He told me he uses tha rack bar quite a bit for the last rap in Heaps.

I did the rap with a ATC-XP high friction, double strand, pre rigged for a z-rappel. Way too much friction, but much better than not enough friction.

I've seen someone do it with two devices single strand. Pirana extended with an ATC-guide in a normal location. Personally I'd switch the location of two devices since you can add friction on the fly with the Pirana.

[jman]

I did the rap with a ATC-XP high friction, double strand, pre rigged for a z-rappel.

Technically you mean Rappel-Z. The only problem with that, is that the upper biner could slide over the descender device and interfere with the descending (I've heard two stories of it "locking up" and it's a pain to fix.

Although, you could use a large rapide so it would be impossible to slide over the rappel device.

[Randi]

My first time down that rap, I used a mini-rack and didn't like it.
It had too much friction toward the top (which meant struggling to get the rope to feed through & lots of bounce), & then not enough friction past the middle & the rest of the way down even with the hyper bar engaged.
We were rapping on 11 mil rope.

2nd & 3rd time, I used an ATC with a leg biner for extra friction.
Using 9.2 mil rope, I thought this set up was perfect for controlling speed, and descending smoothly.

4th trip to do heaps I ate too much candy the night before, got sick, and didn't actually make it to the last rap! :( ~
I would've used an ATC again, however. I prefer the ATC to the rack or any other device I've used. :2thumbs:

[trackrunner]

Although, you could use a large rapide so it would be impossible to slide over the rappel device.

or you could use a smaller binner than your device. never had that probelm with a small biner. If I was using my 8 then I would have that problem but there's other ways to set it up with a 8.

Never needed the z as I rigged too much friction. last 50ft used a c but never needed to redirect to the z.

[mrbrejcha]

4th trip to do heaps I ate too much candy the night before, got sick, and didn't actually make it to the last rap! :( ~
cc :lol8:

You know, I had no one to share all the booze with that night. I was forced to drink it all myself.


I have always used an ATC style decender with a biner redirect off the leg loop. It's been enough for me on 8 or 9 mil. I have another biner for a second re-direct on the rope above the device, but that will pretty much stop me and I don't use it. I'm about 150lbs and my pack has been anywhere from 30-60 pounds.

[ratagonia]

I use a Pirana set at "2", extended 12", a left leg loop biner and a biner in the big eye of the Pirana. Start with just the Pirana, add the left leg loop biner about 100 feet down, maybe add the eye biner to make a Z Rig another 100 feet down. That's for the 8mm or 8.3mm.

If we send one person down on the 8 and haul up the 9mm, I include a Petzl Stop with the haul-up, and use that.

Bottom Belay always always always here.

Tom

[moab mark]

I use a Pirana set at "2", extended 12", a left leg loop biner and a biner in the big eye of the Pirana. Start with just the Pirana, add the left leg loop biner about 100 feet down, maybe add the eye biner to make a Z Rig another 100 feet down. That's for the 8mm or 8.3mm.

If we send one person down on the 8 and haul up the 9mm, I include a Petzl Stop with the haul-up, and use that.

Bottom Belay always always always here.

Tom

"2" meaning over both teeth? When you use a left leg loop, are you going right handed and running the rope across your hips? Do you this same basic set up at Englestead?

Mark

[Brian in SLC]

As mentioned before...I like two ATC's, one at the belay loop, one on a shoulder length sling girth hitched to my harness tie in points. Smooth.

Have biners preclipped on both legs and one available for the Z if needed.

8mm rope. I'm around 100 kilos (sounds better!) and pack usually weighs about 20 lbs or so.

First time through Heaps, not much beta (other than a friend who's a bit of a beast and hauls a 450 foot piece of gym climbing rope through the canyon to do that last two rappels as one!).

We took a pretty big 300 foot static line, like, the 7/16" Bluewater Static II rope. Wet, that thing must weight 60lbs or so...

Anyhoo, second to last rappel, double strand on a couple of 8.5 or 9mm climbing ropes, I went with the static in my pack and on my back. Rigged just a standard ATC on both strands. Yikes. From the tree, because of the last rappel maybe, it just doesn't look that steep. Scared the beejeezus out of me. Really got worked trying to control the friction, but, didn't have to wrap the whole rig around me thankfully. Got to the perch in one piece. Woulda been fine had I not had that huge pack on my back.

From the perch, since our 300 foot static line was so huge, I rigged single strand on the single ATC with nothing else. Fine for around 2/3's of the rappel. Near the bottom, was struggling a bit to control the friction, and, ended up taking the rope around my back. Worked fine. Still, kinda scary. I know better now. No gloves on either rappel and no issues with rope burns, so, had a bit of margin but I don't like to feel like I'm anywhere near that edge.

Had the friends with the 450' rope have a close call too, though. Figure eight, single. One spun so hard that they almost passed out on the rappel. Scary.

Bottom belay fo sho!

-Brian in SLC

[ratagonia]

I use a Pirana set at "2", extended 12", a left leg loop biner and a biner in the big eye of the Pirana. Start with just the Pirana, add the left leg loop biner about 100 feet down, maybe add the eye biner to make a Z Rig another 100 feet down. That's for the 8mm or 8.3mm.

If we send one person down on the 8 and haul up the 9mm, I include a Petzl Stop with the haul-up, and use that.

Bottom Belay always always always here.

Tom

"2" meaning over both teeth? When you use a left leg loop, are you going right handed and running the rope across your hips? Do you this same basic set up at Englestead?

Mark

Yes, and yes. And yes. (very agreeable today, am I). :nod:

Tom

[Bo_Beck]

My first time down that rap, I used a mini-rack and didn't like it.
It had too much friction toward the top (which meant struggling to get the rope to feed through & lots of bounce), & then not enough friction past the middle & the rest of the way down even with the hyper bar engaged.
We were rapping on 11 mil rope.

Not had that problem? I rappeled from the top of Angels Landing several years ago. We used a single 400 meter 11mm rope. It was quite vertical on the south face. The actual distance of the rappel was somewhere around 900'. The weight of the rope in service was maybe 60-70 lbs. Up top I used 2 bars and about 3/5th of the way down I added a third bar, then a fourth bar maybe 200' from the bottom. Very smooth, controlled descent even piggybacking my 30 Lb. pack. Same situation in Heaps. It is almost a hands free descent using a rack with brake bars. The Scarab is very similar, but much easier to add or subtract "bars" on the fly! I used to use just a standard ATC for the last drops in Heaps (and still do sometimes), but my HB mini rack is just so damn easy to use! It's almost worn out now and I intend to replace it with a Titanium Scarab.

[Brian in SLC]

Not had that problem? I rappeled from the top of Angels Landing several years ago. We used a single 400 meter 11mm rope. It was quite vertical on the south face. The actual distance of the rappel was somewhere around 900'.

That's not the one that cost ya, is it?

Ha ha.

Yeah, that scarab rig looks pretty cool.

Cheers, Bo!

-Brian in SLC

[bruce from bryce]

No mention here of chest harness. Anyone use one?

bruce from bryce

[Bo_Beck]

Not had that problem? I rappeled from the top of Angels Landing several years ago. We used a single 400 meter 11mm rope. It was quite vertical on the south face. The actual distance of the rappel was somewhere around 900'.

That's not the one that cost ya, is it?

Ha ha.

Yeah, that scarab rig looks pretty cool.

Cheers, Bo!

-Brian in SLC

It all depends what "cost" you refer to? Several costs involved: New rope cost? Nope...Bluewater was more than gracious! Constant and ongoing harassment? Yep! Friendship? Well....that depends on the relativity of the meaning of friendship!? Sure..I lost a so called "friend". Request by a certain individual to my ex-boss to fire my a$$ because of the total lack of ETHICS? Ethics...Geeze! Didn't happen! Cost of a few sleepless nights....well, yes, but that wasn't because of that "certain" individual,; more-so because of the grief experienced by the family involved. Would I undertake the potential "costs" again? You're f*****g "A" right I would!

Cheers Brian!
Bo

[ratagonia]

No mention here of chest harness. Anyone use one?

bruce from bryce

On Heaps I do. Two standard over the shoulder slings, one each way. Clip a biner in front and hook that into the rappel device biner which is conveniently just at the right height due to extension. Lean back (a bit) and enjoy the ride!!!

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

[It all depends what "cost" you refer to? Several costs involved

Thought you might have some juice on that...

Attempted murder...?!?!

I think someone burned a few bridges with the NPS on that whole deal.

Silly.

Thanks for the chuckle.

-Brian in SLC

[Cirrus2000]

I think there's a story I need to hear one of these days... :popcorn:

[xxnitsuaxx]

I tried every variation of "Zion" "Angel's Landing", "Rappel", "Bo Beck" in Google searches and still found nothing. Do I need to offer a bribe to hear this story?

[Cirrus2000]

Dinner's on me next time, Bo! You provide the entertainment! :2thumbs:

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Reedus]

I used a ATC XP with two biners on a 9mm static. Went down on the friction side of the XP and it was a little too much friction for me. Half way down I got some good bounces from trying to feed the rope faster

[Scott Card]

I used a ATC XP with two biners on a 9mm static. Went down on the friction side of the XP and it was a little too much friction for me. Half way down I got some good bounces from trying to feed the rope faster

Been there done that. I am up for trying some of these other techniques. I went with my pirana only one time and felt like I was starting to have a bit too much speed. I simply wrapped my leg (with wet suit) around the rope behind my brake hand and that did the trick to make me more comfortable with speed. I just straightened my leg to break, bent my leg to go. Worked pretty slick. My hunch is that I may get blasted for this but hey, it worked like a charm for me. I'd rather not rely on this in the future, hence the reason for the original question. Oh, I am big boned at about 215 lbs and my pack is usually heavy-ish at about 30-40 lbs??? Well maybe not if I am still in my wetsuit.

[Iceaxe]

Until you guys bribe the Heaps story from Bo, this one will keep you thoroughly entertained if you have never read it before...

A Sh***y Trip in Heaps - by Anonymous
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4446

:popcorn:

[jman]

Until you guys bribe the Heaps story from Bo, this one will keep you thoroughly entertained if you have never read it before...

A Sh***y Trip in Heaps - by Anonymous
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4446

:popcorn:

*sigh* women and their dumb little dogs. I will never understand why they think poodles are cute. They are ugly. Second, they unceasingly bark. If they could - they would continually bark in their sleep for no reason whats so ever.....

I'm glad the girl I'm dating right now her favorite dog is a huskie - not a poodle. Man, I really hate poodles. ha ha

[sarahlizzy]

Bottom Belay always always always here.

Tom

What about the first one down? Do they get a top belay, or do they just be extra careful?

[sarahlizzy]

Until you guys bribe the Heaps story from Bo, this one will keep you thoroughly entertained if you have never read it before...

A Sh***y Trip in Heaps - by Anonymous
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4446


Oh wow, that's epic!

Mouth to mouth on a dog ... :eek2:

[thedesertnomad]

What about the first one down? Do they get a top belay, or do they just be extra careful?

Just be extra careful, at least that's what I did. Though it didn't bother me too much as it was pitch black, so I couldn't see, lol. I used Tom's Z rig technique and didn't have any issues at all.

[CarpeyBiggs]

What about the first one down? Do they get a top belay, or do they just be extra careful?

or lower them if you are worried about it, or if you have a rope stashed below.

[sarahlizzy]

Just be extra careful, at least that's what I did. Though it didn't bother me too much as it was pitch black, so I couldn't see, lol. I used Tom's Z rig technique and didn't have any issues at all.

That's what I did in Pine Creek (Z-rig) when I was first down. Everyone else got a bottom belay.

[Iceaxe]

I wrote this up after my first trip through Heaps in 2001 when others started asking me questions about the big rappel... some might find it useful... if nothing else its an interesting historical look back.... and maybe a good laugh.... at the time we did this canyon the only beta available was the Black Book and a nice TR written by Brian in SLC. The talented Downtown Mel Brown as my partner for this trip... interesting to note that back in 2001 everyone was more worried about pulling their ropes, which is why I wrote this up to begin with, and not what rappel device to use. For the record both Mel and I used a standard ATC for the rappel (I have since switched to an ATC-XP).


Heap's Final Rap Rope Recovery

Our ropes pulled very easy on the last Heaps rappel. We probably did it a little different so I will give you a quick run down. I doubt this will ever become the standard method.

We tied our 300' static rope (really 8mm accessory chord) to the anchor (four bolts equalized with a cordelette) and we tied our two 50m dynamic ropes (both 10mm) together and tied one end to the anchor. This gave us two solid rappel lines. My partner rapped to the ground on the 300' rope while using a shunt on the two 50's as a back up. Something about the big guy not totally trusting the tiny 300' shoestring we had borrowed from Tom Jones.

We setup two biners to use as rap rings so the rope would pull easy. We figured the rope would pull easier through the big biners than the skimpy quick-links.

After my partner was down, we setup the 300' rope as a rap line and the two 50's tied together as a retrieval line. Next, we didn't want to get our knot stuck so we fed the knot over the lip. We than checked the pull. I always check the pull on ropes I have no desire to jug latter in the day. My partner than tied into the two 50's to act as the anchor.

Next I hooked up to the 300' rope, stepped to the lip with 290' of free air below and stepped off. Whoa......I dropped about 20 feet before all the stretch was removed from the two dynamic retrieval lines. We thought we had most the stretch out before I stepped over......wrong. As my life flashed before my eyes we were just getting to the good stuff when the ropes softly tighten up...scarrrrryyyyy.....

Anyhow, we didn't have any trouble pulling our rope and there is a nice pool of water at the bottom to clean your britches.

32693

[ratagonia]

Yes, an exemplary tale of how to NOT do it!!! I believe Ice is now able to tie a biner-block, but it is hard with one hand, the other holding his nose shut. That 300 foot x 8mm accessory cord made exactly two trips through Heaps. Now it is used for 'accessory uses' around the house. Yikes, what were we thinking!!!

Tom

[sarahlizzy]

Next I hooked up to the 300' rope, stepped to the lip with 290' of free air below and stepped off. Whoa......I dropped about 20 feet before all the stretch was removed from the two dynamic retrieval lines. We thought we had most the stretch out before I stepped over......wrong. As my life flashed before my eyes we were just getting to the good stuff when the ropes softly tighten up...scarrrrryyyyy.....

Eek!

There's a climbing gym in Scotland, they say it's the world's largest. They have a 30 metre high wall which has some top rope lines on it. Apparently they use static for this. I guess it's for similar reasons.