Help me plan for early June? Toroweap, AZ strip, Buckskin...

[coots]

Hi folks,

I posted already on the recent Parashant thread, though didn't want to hijack it with my help request. Thanks already to the folks who responded!

I have 10 days to wander around after a conference in early June. I've explored around Zion, Bryce and their surroundings in past trips. I was looking to check out the North Rim this time around. I plan on heading to Toroweap and then exploring in and around the road back to St. George. I've wanted to check out Buckskin Gulch for awhile, though never made it that way in past trips, so that could register somehow. My girlfriend really wants to see Zion, she's never been out to this part of the country, so we're thinking of ending up there for a day or two with the masses before we head back to Pennsylvania. Nothing solidified yet.

We both do a lot of trekking in the Midatlantic and New England states. looking to stay away from the crowds as much as possible (aside from Zion of course). We'll have a 4WD jeep and plan to car camp this one, though hope to find some cool out and back overnighters.

Any suggestions are very appreciated! I'm not from the area and rely on the internet or guidebooks to help plan. You folks have been very helpful in the past in telling me to choose one thing over another.

Thanks!

[kkemp]

Buckskin Gulch and Toroweep are both cool. The road between Toroweep and St. George is pretty plain in my opinion, but it certainly will get you away from the crowds. My wife did a trip report for Toroweep which you can read at the website in my signiture. You'll have no problem going to these spots in your jeep. Just one piece of advise, if you go to Toroweep, slow down to a crawl when you come to the dust bogs or you will regret it!
I recommend low range just to keep the dust down.

[DOSS]

Tuweep - Toroweap great area just got done going there.. http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20396&highlight=

I disagree with Kevin that the road from there to St George is boring.. it just depends on the route you take and there are a few

Did Buckskin Gulch last year
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18370&highlight=buckskin

If I was to do Buckskin as an out and back I would hike to the convergence of buckskin and Paria and then backtrack to the midway point and come out of the canyon and see everything from above.

with 10 days you have lots you can see down that way.. Start in St George, head south over Mt Trumbal to Tuweep, stay a day there hiking and exploring, head up to buckskin (maybe a late afternoon drive and crash in the car or on the side of the road?), hike buckskin from wire pass stay the night at convergence and come back out, Head towards Bigwater and hike into the Hoodoos then north through the smokys, some hikes in escalante then finish off the trip in capitol reef and some hiking there :)..

[coots]

Thanks for the info. So many places I'd like to check out, narrowing it down is a task.

Anybody able to advise on Grand Gulch? Been interested in exploring for years, I haven't seen much in the way of ruins or petroglyphs in past visits.

[bobb169]

A super trip is from Deer Creek/Thunder River TH down to the Colorado River, go downstream(along the river) to Kanab Creek, up Kanab Creek to Snake Gulch and out to the paved road to Jacobs Lake. We took a week years ago. You'd need to figure out the car situation........we had two.

[coots]

Looks like the selection of jeeps/4wd in Las Vegas is pretty slim. Would a Grand Cherokee be okay for heading into Toroweap and/or cruising around the other suggested areas? Looks like a Wrangler could be had, but I can't get a conformation. Any suggestions on rentals in the Vegas area would be awesome.

And keep 'em coming with suggestions on areas to check out. Those ruins in Grand Gulch look so amazing. I'm hoping it's not too far a stretch. Still don't have an itinerary set in stone.

[trackrunner]

What's the difference between a rental car and a Jeep?


















































There's just some places a Jeep won't go.
a serious off road 4X4 is not needed IMHO if sticking to the main dirt roads. in the past the main roads have only been washboard bad. YMMV

[coots]

Thunder River looks so awesome! I think we might go for it. Any suggestions for a loop? I guess we could do an out and back, though figured I'd ask. Deer Creek looks like it makes a nice loop.

[trackrunner]

link to: TR on Tapeats/Deer Creek loop (http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?33051-TR-Grand-Canyon)

[coots]

Thanks!

Things are shaping up, looking forward to the trip! We're going to do the Thunder river/Deer Creek loop for sure. Would anybody suggest/caution going in one direction over the other? Thinking of making our way to Deer Creek campsite for night 1, cache water at the Esplanade along the way. Night 2 either Upper Tapeats or back to the Esplanade, depending on energy. Out on day 3.

Looks like the above loop, Tuweep at some point and one of the parks, Zion, Bryce or North Rim somewhere along the way. I've been to both Zion and Bryce, though not the North Rim. My lady's never been west of Chicago, so she'll dig anything. I have to depart and return from Vegas, so now just looking to make a sensible itinerary covering the above.

[trackrunner]

FYI maybe you all ready know, camping permits are needed for Deer Creek & Thunder rive area.

[coots]

Yep, faxed them in last night. Hopefully they aren't full.

[erial]

Thanks for the info. So many places I'd like to check out, narrowing it down is a task.

Anybody able to advise on Grand Gulch? Been interested in exploring for years, I haven't seen much in the way of ruins or petroglyphs in past visits.

You can likely fill up on petros in the St George area. Little Black Mountain, a few miles south of SG has about 500. Anasazi Trail in Ivins can lead in a mile lead you to various panels. There's also the Ft Pearce site again only a few miles from SG. And if you have free time in Vegas head over to Sloan Canyon, Keyhole Canyon, or even Valley of Fire. jeff

[blarson]

even though it's not very many miles in it feels like twice as many if you're hiking in the day. if you can avoid surprise valley during the middle of the day i think that would be wise, i call it surprise valley because it is surprisingly hot and that valley drains you surprisingly fast. if the weather is nice then that's not important but if it's sunny you'll be glad you took my advice! i'd consider starting in the afternoon and camping on the redwall and then going in the the rest of the way. it was so hot the last time i went in april that we felt the best way to hike out would be to hike all night in the dark which actually was really fun and much easier than the hike in.

[coots]

Anybody got suggestions for camping near the North Rim? I'd prefer just outside of the park if possible. Is Demotte decent?

[Scott P]

Yep, faxed them in last night. Hopefully they aren't full.
My lady's never been west of Chicago, so she'll dig anything


Personally, I think you are making an extremely poor choice taking someone without experience on the Deer/Tapeats loop in June.

If you do get the permits, use extreme caution. It is true that there is cool water in both creeks, but the hike between the two and up to the rim can be deadly in June. Carry at least 3 gallons of water per person; preferably more. I've drank that much in a day in April. Four gallons per day per person would make a better margin of safety, but don't even think about going without 3 gallons per person on the sections of the route mentioned above.

It might not be that bad, but on some occasions you may be looking at 110F+ in early June. Much of the route between the two creeks and up to the rim is shadeless.



it was so hot the last time i went in april that we felt the best way to hike out would be to hike all night in the dark which actually was really fun and much easier than the hike in.


Yes; now imagine how June is.

June hiking in the Inner Canyon can be done, but it's much better if you are highly experienced with the heat. If you just absolutely must go in June, the North Kaibab Trail would be a better choice.

[coots]

I think she'll be ok. She's trekked all over Central and south America in some intense heat. I know it isn't the same, but the awareness is there. We intend to cross Surprise Valley real early, pre-dawn starts. I always lug extra water, I'm paranoid. That being said, we'll be doing a few dayhikes prior to this in the area and will feel it out up to the time we intend on heading towards Thunder/Deer. If the heat is worse than normal of the energy doesn't feel right, we'll bail out. Luckly, we've got plenty of options in the area.