FF: dry vs wet?

[Don]

Last year we stayed out of the BH. This year (and this thread (http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19770)) has spurred renewed interest so I have a couple questions.
Looks like there's a mix of wetsuits and drysuits in past FF pictures. What is recommended? Is there any place along the Wasatch front where I can rent a drysuit? Will they rent it to me if they know it's for a slot canyon? It would have to be 6 or 7 days rental, any chance that's going to be less than just buying a dry suit? (Already checked; buying is outside my price range right now).

[CarpeyBiggs]

Last year we stayed out of the BB. This year (and this thread (http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19770)) has spurred renewed interest so I have a couple questions.
Looks like there's a mix of wetsuits and drysuits in past FF pictures. What is recommended? Is there any place along the Wasatch front where I can rent a drysuit? Will they rent it to me if they know it's for a slot canyon? It would have to be 6 or 7 days rental, any chance that's going to be less than just buying a dry suit? (Already checked; buying is outside my price range right now).

lots of people use wetsuits. some use drysuits. i don't know of anywhere to rent a dry suit in utah, but i imagine it is possible.

what kind of neo do you already have? supplementing neoprene seems the most cost-effective way to do it. of course, it all depends on cold tolerance too. i am going to wear a 2/2 full and a 4/3 full i think. cost me about $100 for both of them combined. one is a stearns and the other a salomon.

or you can try buying a shorty for over the top like randi does. or a vest. ultimately, it's only about 3 hours or so of actually being wet, if that helps your decision.

[Iceaxe]

For something like the Black Hole in winter a dry suit is deluxe....

If I rented one I'd probably test it out at home first. Dry suits are very fragile compared to a wet suit.

For renting along the Wasatch Front I would try the places that rent kayaks... and just tell them you are going rafting in Moab (if they ask)....

FYI: It's the rafting dry suit that canyoneers want..... which is different from the dry suits used in Scuba....

:popcorn:

[Alex]

$389, I just got one of these, very comfy. It has neopreme neck gasket, which is much more comfy than latex. It has relief zipper and built in foot, so your feet are completely dry.

http://www.cascadeoutfitters.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2000&framein=

[CarpeyBiggs]

$389, I just got one of these, very comfy. It has neopreme neck gasket, which is much more comfy than latex. It has relief zipper and built in foot, so your feet are completely dry.

http://www.cascadeoutfitters.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2000&framein=

i hate booties. foot gaskets are the way to go. i'll bet ya the bootie is the first thing to wear out on those drysuits.

other than that, looks like a reasonable deal.

[Alex]

Maybe for canyoneerying, for rafting everyone raves about the booties. To each their own I guess. :ne_nau:

I don't see how they would wear out though. You have to boot a good boot on top of it of course.

[moab mark]

Maybe for canyoneerying, for rafting everyone raves about the booties. To each their own I guess. :ne_nau:

I don't see how they would wear out though. You have to boot a good boot on top of it of course.

I'm with Alex if I am going dry I would like to be dry. Has there been alot of problems with the booties wearing out? I have several pair of waders for fishing with the booties and they have lasted for years. Isn't it the same concept?
Can you buy those coveralls from ZAC's? Or does anyone know where they sell them?

Mark

[CarpeyBiggs]

the booties wear out because they delaminate in the cheaper tropos drysuits.

search around for it. the booties are not like wearing socks. its like wearing a rain jacket around your foot. they aren't comfortable, and when they get inside a boot they get crunched up and wear out.

i've just heard this from friends. quick google, this was the first result.

http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=1654

[CarpeyBiggs]

what's more, that drysuit is not dry. it has a neoprene neck gasket, not a latex one. so if you go in over your neck, it will let water in. it's a "semi-dry" drysuit.

i'd be extra careful too about renting a drysuit. very often they aren't as dry as you'd like 'em to be. test it well before taking it into the black hole. i have a horror story of a rental dry suit that failed on an early season imlay... rybrye and utahadventureguide were there. :popcorn:

[Alex]

Most of those reviews are dated, except one. I posted the request on mountainbuzz.com for info and got a lot of positive reviews from rafters.

Like I said, it might not work for canyoneering, but it's the cheapest dry suit I found with good in real world experience review from fellow boaters I boat with. I got a great deal on the suits, so if it does leak in 3-4 years, I'll just replace it and still be satisfied.

I tried mine on and it fits perfect, I tried it with my canyoneering shoes too, felt good and snug. I was told by same boaters that everyone hated the gaskets on their feet. So that was my reason to go with the booties.

[CarpeyBiggs]

like i said, i just quickly googled it, and used my own observations.

$400 for a drysuit that only lasts a few seasons? YIKES.

i imagine in rafting you aren't walking much, so the booties are less of an issue. i like the gaskets because i can still do my typical neoprene socks and shoes, and know it will be comfortable.

bottom line, if you are going to get one for canyoneering, make sure it works, and treat it ever so gently. if you do, and it works, it will be more comfortable than neo.

[moab mark]

I went and looked at the website. Those boots do not look like the ones on fishing waders. Does anyone know if there is a dry suit with booties like waders?
Every dry suit I have ever rented from ZACS has leaked at the ankles. It was not a big deal we were only doing pinecreek but if I was buying I would want wader boots. I rented one for my wife she was comfortable everywhere but her feet. They were freezing. She thought it was the dumbest concept she had ever seen. Stay dry but freeze her feet? Her comment was why do my feet stay dry fishing but not with this suit? If your going wet on your feet might as well just wear a wet suit? l

Yea $400 is alot for a suit for only a couple of years, but this will make you sick Dan, I was at a get togther the other day with several snowmoblie dealers. They figure if you are buying a new sled every 2 years it cost $200-$300 per ride. Now that hurts.


Mark


Mark

[ratagonia]

Most of those reviews are dated, except one. I posted the request on mountainbuzz.com for info and got a lot of positive reviews from rafters.

Like I said, it might not work for canyoneering, but it's the cheapest dry suit I found with good in real world experience review from fellow boaters I boat with. I got a great deal on the suits, so if it does leak in 3-4 years, I'll just replace it and still be satisfied.

I tried mine on and it fits perfect, I tried it with my canyoneering shoes too, felt good and snug. I was told by same boaters that everyone hated the gaskets on their feet. So that was my reason to go with the booties.

You might want to wear a harness with it, even though it is not needed for the Black Hole (hopefully). It holds the drysuit up into the crotch, which makes walking, swimming, downclimbing with it much better. Just something simple would work.

T :moses:

[ratagonia]

I went and looked at the website. Those boots do not look like the ones on fishing waders. Does anyone know if there is a dry suit with booties like waders?
Every dry suit I have ever rented from ZACS has leaked at the ankles. It was not a big deal we were only doing pinecreek but if I was buying I would want wader boots. I rented one for my wife she was comfortable everywhere but her feet. They were freezing. She thought it was the dumbest concept she had ever seen. Stay dry but freeze her feet? Her comment was why do my feet stay dry fishing but not with this suit? If your going wet on your feet might as well just wear a wet suit?

Mark

I've never had leakage at the ankles. A couple things can make it better such as:

- shave your ankles, especially you hairy types
- get the ankle seal down really smooth. It goes on the skin, and it has to be completely single layer.

And then, manage your feet well. the ZAC Neo socks are really good for cold things like this.

And then, manage your circulation well. If you have lousy circulation, it will be really hard to keep you feet warm. Eat cookies, etc. Improve your circulation (but that's a whole nother topic!!).

Tom

[mrbrejcha]

I stuffed a bunch of handwarmers in my drysuit last year, it was rad.

[Iceaxe]

For what it's worth... I use a Kokatat Swift-Entry Drysuit. They are usually the least expensive with a list of about $500. It works great for me. There are better suits but they cost more money.

Kokatat Swift-Entry Drysuit Web Link
http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tse

Dry suits are kinda finicky and it seems everyone has their own tips and tricks, here is a little of my personal experience

[Iceaxe]

And one more thing.... if you buy a dry suit store it in a sealed plastic bag with most the air removed. The gaskets will last much longer this way as its the fresh air that cause them to deteriorate.

:rockon:

[Alex]

And one more thing.... if you buy a dry suit store it in a sealed plastic bag with most the air removed. The gaskets will last much longer this way as its the fresh air that cause them to deteriorate.

:rockon:

Good advice, thanks! What about storing it in a sealed dry bag? Work the same?

[Iceaxe]

Good advice, thanks! What about storing it in a sealed dry bag? Work the same?

It's the fresh air that does the damage. I actually store mine in a garbage bag stuffed inside a dry bag.... it's 10 years old and still looks almost brand new. The gaskets appear to be as fresh as the day I bought it. I've done some paddling in mine but mostly canyoneering.

.

[Brian in SLC]

[quote=Iceaxe]I

[tanya]

The best thing about Drysuits is that you don't have to strip in front of all the guys. :2thumbs: I love them! They are also lighter to carry in your pack.

[Don]

The best thing about Drysuits is that you don't have to strip in front of all the guys. :2thumbs: I love them! They are also lighter to carry in your pack.

In a drysuit you've got more clothes on than a few pictures you've posted and yet this may be my favorite. You've got a nice smile Tanya.

[tanya]

Thanks Don. I hope that does not mean I look better covered up. :lol8:

[Don]

Thanks Don. I hope that does not mean I look better covered up. :lol8:

So, not at all what I meant. Don't go reading things into things. :nono:


:cool2:

[tanya]

:lol8: I am teasing you. Don't worry, that sort of thing only happens when it's YOUR girl. :haha:

[hank moon]

I put my neck gasket over a coffee can for a couple of weeks and it stretched out just fine.

Good beta. I've heard a gallon-size bleach bottle (conical top facilitator) works well for stretching, too.