Looks like there is going to be new leadership at the ACA.

[moab mark]

I copied this over because I think alot of you can no longer view posts on the aca site.

rcwild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bashfulbob
Rich:


I started this thread because I decided to leave the ACA. The purpose was to determine if I should just walk away and let it die or if I should invest some time preparing documentation to make it easier for someone else to take over.

I gave notice to the other members of the board that I intend to leave before April 2010. After giving notice a couple things happened that could complicate my departure. The board will meet on January 20th to consider options and make some decisions.

[tanya]

:eek2:

[scubabryan]

I vote: TJ

[Iceaxe]

This is not the first time Mr. Carlson has quit.... this has happened at least twice before that I know of.... I'll believe it when they are changing the nameplates on the office doors and repainting the executive parking spots at the ACA office complex....

But I will get out the big bag of popcorn and watch the show if anyone wants to join me.... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/181204/giantpopcorn.gif ....Things normally get very entertaining from a spectator standpoint every time Rich resigns....

.

[moab mark]

This is not the first time Mr. Carlson has quit.... this has happened at least twice before that I know of.... I'll believe it when they are changing the nameplates on the office doors and repainting the executive parking spots at the ACA office complex....

But I will get out the big bag of popcorn and watch the show if anyone wants to join me.... http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/181204/giantpopcorn.gif ....Things normally get very entertaining from a spectator standpoint every time Rich resigns....

.

According to the ACA site it has now been put on hold. :popcorn:

[accadacca]

I tried to find that post on their site and even browse a few posts to see whats going on. Man, it looks like they put up a locked bank vault door on the front of their website. Makes it hard to see anything unless you are a member...doesn't help business IMHO. :ne_nau:

[Sombeech]

Serious inquiry here...

So from what I gather, the ACA is an organization that registers the canyons? How big is this organization, and does it actually have an office, or is it kind of an online club? Does the ACA take note of every bolt placed in canyons, and possibly the condition thereof? And is it a group decision to replace those bolts?

Understand, these questions are coming from a Mtn biker, there's probably some sort of organization like this but they are never consulted by anybody I know. Probably because Mtn biking is more of a casual sport.

Thanks.

[moab mark]

I tried to find that post on their site and even browse a few posts to see whats going on. Man, it looks like they put up a locked bank vault door on the front of their website. Makes it hard to see anything unless you are a member...doesn't help business IMHO. :ne_nau:

For a small donation of $50 you can browse until your heart is content. :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

According to the ACA site it has now been put on hold. :popcorn:

That didn't take long..... :lol8:

Now I just have to say it..... I told ya so.... :roflol:

:popcorn:

[Don]

Serious inquiry here...

So from what I gather, the ACA is an organization that registers the canyons? How big is this organization, and does it actually have an office, or is it kind of an online club? Does the ACA take note of every bolt placed in canyons, and possibly the condition thereof? And is it a group decision to replace those bolts?

Understand, these questions are coming from a Mtn biker, there's probably some sort of organization like this but they are never consulted by anybody I know. Probably because Mtn biking is more of a casual sport.

Thanks.

It's a training organization. Original intent is to make safe canyoneers. They offer initial entry canyoneer training, more advanced and canyon leader courses, wilderness first aid and I'm pretty sure a swift water and high angle rescue course.
There is a canyon databate but not nearly as accurate as your imagining it is. And of course the database is pretty much the same stuff that's already published elsewhere. An unpublished canyon is unpublished there too.

[moab mark]

According to the ACA site it has now been put on hold. :popcorn:

That didn't take long..... :lol8:

Now I just have to say it..... I told ya so.... :roflol:

:popcorn:

I new you would be coming back soon.

[Iceaxe]

So from what I gather, the ACA is an organization that registers the canyons? How big is this organization, and does it actually have an office, or is it kind of an online club? Does the ACA take note of every bolt placed in canyons, and possibly the condition thereof? And is it a group decision to replace those bolts?

Registering canyons has never been one of the ACA objectives (that I'm aware of).

IMHO.... One of the problems with the ACA is that what they support and what they represent has always been a moving target.... over the years they have attempted at one time or other to be all things canyons to all people.....

With that being said.... teaching canyoneering skills and safety has always been one of the ACA cornerstones....

Historically the ACA has been the place many noobs go to get some skills before moving on to bigger and better things in the canyoneering world.

The ACA office is Rich sitting in front of a computer screen in his living room..... wearing only a bathrobe.... about like the Bogley office complex.... :haha:

The size depends on how you measure.... if judging by paying members it's a few hundred, but when waving the ACA banner Rich likes to use the number of registered forum members, which similar to many forums, is in the thousands.

"Club" describes the ACA pretty well... others (including Rich) have referred to it as a canyoneering dictatorship.... whatever that is...

The ACA has always aspired to become the NCAA of the canyoneering world... but for various reasons has never gained the traction to move beyond the school/club level.


:cool2:

[Sombeech]

wearing only a bathrobe.... about like the Bogley office complex....

Well, as soon as we get a little more professional around here, I'll put something on.

[moab mark]

wearing only a bathrobe.... about like the Bogley office complex....

Well, as soon as we get a little more professional around here, I'll put something on.

Im sorry but that was funny. :roflol:

[moab mark]

On a serious side. I have only met Rich once. He taught an anchors class that I took. He did an excellent job. I think the ACA is where Rich generates his income. So ya we can joke about it but for him, especially in these economic times, these are serious decisions. So I wish him well in which ever direction he goes. Alot of people have butted heads with him on this and the ACA site but from what I have seen over the years when it comes to technical questions he's got his **** together.

Mark

[CarpeyBiggs]

Looks like there is going to be new leadership at the ACA.

isn't that an oxy-moron? :haha:

i think the ACA could be a could organization. i just haven't seen any reason for myself to join. i don't think anyone would argue some new blood might recharge the thing. or completely bleed it off.

i'm not sure rich makes much with the ACA stuff. probably one of the reasons it may be wise for him to find some other means? pure speculation on my part. :ne_nau:

[rcwild]

Lots of interesting speculation going on here. I would be happy to provide facts, but Shane's BS is always much more entertaining than the truth, so I'll just sit back and enjoy this thread from the sidelines.

:popcorn:

[Brian in SLC]

Lots of interesting speculation going on here. I would be happy to provide facts, but Shane's BS is always much more entertaining than the truth, so I'll just sit back and enjoy this thread from the sidelines.

Rich! Speak o' the devil. And, who said there was no talent on Bogley?

Yeah, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

Hope all is well.

-Brian in SLC

[denaliguide]

ah, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[Iceaxe]

Lots of interesting speculation going on here. I would be happy to provide facts, but Shane's BS is always much more entertaining than the truth, so I'll just sit back and enjoy this thread from the sidelines.

Interesting how all the talent keeps an eye on Bogley. :haha:

Oh wise one.... please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong..... don't worry about hurting my feelings.... I'm married, I'm used to being corrected. :nod:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/181204/giantpopcorn.gif

[ratagonia]

Interesting how all the talent keeps an eye on Bogley. :haha:


Easy, this is where they keep the noobs...

(with apologies to Willie Sutton)

T

[Brian in SLC]

Easy, this is where they keep the noobs...

(with apologies to Willie Sutton)

Another example why you can't believe everything you read on the 'net...

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/sutton.asp

Its almost a full time job keeping some folks in line...ha ha...

-Brian in SLC

[shagdeuce]

The cold war is over! It looks like the ACA opened back up. I thought - and hoped - it would only be a matter of time. In the mean time, they spurred a number of their loyal users, including me, to find Bogley. Now that I'm hooked, I guess I'm stuck in the same world as many of you - following three different forums. I like the ACA for technical stuff, Bogley for its openness and general feel, and Yahoo because I love bad user interfaces.

[Don]

and Yahoo because I love bad user interfaces.

:roflol:

I would spend more time there too if it werent so damned annoying.

[tanya]

The cold war is over! It looks like the ACA opened back up. I thought - and hoped - it would only be a matter of time. In the mean time, they spurred a number of their loyal users, including me, to find Bogley. Now that I'm hooked, I guess I'm stuck in the same world as many of you - following three different forums. I like the ACA for technical stuff, Bogley for its openness and general feel, and Yahoo because I love bad user interfaces.

Welcome!

You do have Tom, Bo, Shane, Brian and MANY others here with lots of technical smarts! I think they tend to let others speak a bit first before they take over and control the direction of the thread. It's always more interesting when several post on a subject.. Don't you think?

[hank moon]

Interesting how all the talent keeps an eye on Bogley. :haha:


Easy, this is where they keep the noobs...

(with apologies to Willie Sutton)

T :lol8:

[reflection]

The canyon dance floor is shifting round and round. On the ACA site, some have been barred from posting because of personality, style or other conflicts with the moderator. Now all, unless they/we anty up dues, are barred from even a peek at the ACA site, that often offered cogent info re new tech gear or technique. (What interests or energy will sustain the new cloistered ACA site - I don't know?)

There are strong personalities that either lead or direct the three canyon sites. Egos aside, the styles (and need to be or feel in control) will continue. An originator or chief moderator of a site can be a celebrity and shine in the notoriety and some more than others really like that top-dog identity badge. (Most likely are not aware though of the countless hours and effort it takes to sustain a site like this Bogley forum, or possibly monitor or moderate another site.)

Entertainment, some drama, along with insight as to new styles, gear and technique often interests me. My guess though? The bands, tribes, chief agents connected with the various canyon sites will continue some back and forth discussion but for the most part, attempt rational discourse in their own playground, universe or arena mostly because there are either too many strong willed people that want to be in charge or alternatively because views, interests and personalities are so diverse. Being in control, in charge vs. being flexible, adaptable, accepting of other styles and views. It's a challenge in public forums at times, balancing personal vs. general or public interests. And, can every active poster or viewer fit under one tent? Technology may offer better anwers or more diverse options in the future (or maybe not, at least in the near future ?)

[Felicia]

I have decided that each canyoneering group is like a bar - each one serves alcohol, has a barmaid, a drunk, and has music.

After that - they are all very different.

I like having a choice of bars to frequent. Like canyon groups, I frequest several bars. Some of you have been to my favorite dive. I have friends at each bar. There are those that are loud and obnoxious - depending on what night, it might be me. :roflol: Each bar has a different type of music. Sometimes it is live, sometimes it is a juke box, or sometimes it is karaoke - that is where I fit in. :haha: Food is also different at each place - all good, by the way, or I would not be there.

For what it is worth - non are chain restaurants. I try to give my money back to the local community.

All this being said, I like the choices and the diversity. I believe in a free market and natural selection. But I also believe in diplomacy and just plain being nice to each other.

Back to the important stuff that I'm doing - making lots and lots of jello shots for my party on Saturday night. :mrgreen:


:rockon:

[rcwild]

On the ACA site, some have been barred from posting because of personality, style or other conflicts with the moderator.

Absolutely not true. Only one person is banned from our forums. Initials are L.E. if anyone is curious.


Now all, unless they/we anty up dues, are barred from even a peek at the ACA site, that often offered cogent info re new tech gear or technique.

The ACA's primary obligations are to its members. People should only join the ACA if they want to be part of the ACA. One of the benefits of membership is access to our forums.


(What interests or energy will sustain the new cloistered ACA site - I don't know?)

I don't know either. Only time will tell.

[reflection]

Clarification. I know people in and out of state; that are current or former registered users of both Canyons Yahoo and the ACA site. They have told me and in some cases I have witnessed, (when in their homes). They typed an inital response or reply, posted it and walla, nothing appeared. They sensed the post was deleted, erased or blocked. (This went on for months). Was it a mass technical glitch, a twilight zone moment or something disconnected from the universe of the bulletin board manager? I don't know, and since this is all past tense, I really no longer care. (I don't know of the chap referenced in "ACA block"). It is window though on the impetus that some/many feel to control, and it's the probable reason that a variety of outdoor canyonnering sites will continue. There are simply a variety of subtle or stark styles on the managment side and on the user side too.

[Iceaxe]

Banned and Heavily Moderated are two different things.....

The ACA site is Heavily Moderated.... and I see nothing wrong with that.... its Rich's site and he is welcome to moderate until his typing fingers are sore if it please him... even if it is annoying to those posting...

YMMV

[stefan]

Clarification. I know people in and out of state; that are current or former registered users of both Canyons Yahoo and the ACA site. They have told me and in some cases I have witnessed, (when in their homes). They typed an inital response or reply, posted it and walla, nothing appeared. They sensed the post was deleted, erased or blocked. (This went on for months).

out of curiosity, did these folks try to contact the members of the site to resolve the problem?

[ratagonia]

Clarification. I know people in and out of state; that are current or former registered users of both Canyons Yahoo and the ACA site. They have told me and in some cases I have witnessed, (when in their homes). They typed an inital response or reply, posted it and walla, nothing appeared. They sensed the post was deleted, erased or blocked. (This went on for months).

out of curiosity, did these folks try to contact the members of the site to resolve the problem?

Yahoo has substantial delays in posting, sometimes a few minutes, occasionally a few days! Paranoid types (you know who you are, and we are coming to get you!) assume it is due to moderation or blocking - at least on the Yahoo group, it is usually not.

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: Yahoo sometime's tells you if you are Moderated with the following message....

"This message must first be approved by the group's moderators. If approved, your message will be emailed to members who have chosen to receive group messages."

But Yahoo does not always post the moderated message....

You can also click options (on the right side of yahoo inside the post on the website) and view the post in "source" to see if you are moderated. If you are moderated you will see a message like this near the bottom of your source information....

X-eGroups-Approved-By: adkramoo <adkramoo> via web; 30 Sep 2009 19:21:51 -0000

In this case the post was moderated, but was approved by adkramoo on 30 Sept 2009 by the moderater control panel... ( they can also approve by email).

Feel free to ask me how I know so much about being moderated. :lol8:

:bootyshake:

[FOX]

Hmmm...how do you know so much about being moderated :lol8:

[ratagonia]

:bootyshake:

That pretty much says it all, right there...

T :moses:

[Iceaxe]

If you want to be moderated just point out that the

[rcwild]

Clarification. I know people in and out of state; that are current or former registered users of both Canyons Yahoo and the ACA site. They have told me and in some cases I have witnessed, (when in their homes). They typed an inital response or reply, posted it and walla, nothing appeared. They sensed the post was deleted, erased or blocked. (This went on for months). Was it a mass technical glitch, a twilight zone moment or something disconnected from the universe of the bulletin board manager?

In the case of the ACA forums ... To control spam everyone who joins is initially on moderated status. Post something about cheap Nikes from China and we delete the post and your account. Post something about canyoneering and the post is approved and your account removed from moderated status. If I am traveling, it might take a couple days for this to happen.


The ACA site is Heavily Moderated....

From Shane's perspective, this is a true statement. We do heavily moderate his Glen Hyde, Bigfoot and other sock puppets.

[tanya]

But it's those alter egos everyone has that makes the internet so much fun.

:roflol:

Not to stir up problems (which I never like to do), because I adore Rich (and everyone else too), but if my memory is correct -- I posted a photo album on the ACA site and some had Shane's website listed below because he was in the photos. Not to advertise it, but just because the site is important in the canyoneering world and I thought the info should go with the photos and I probably did the same with Bo's photos. I am not sure if I remember the exact details, but I think all the photos - at least the ones with Shane's site below them were deleted on the ACA forum. I never posted there much, but after that I pretty much stopped looking all together. There was a post I made too ---- that ended up .... I don't remember exactly what happened but I did send Rich a :ne_nau: face, but I doubt I argued more than that since it is his site and he can do with it whatever he wants. If I want to post there then I need to follow his rules, if I don't want to follow them then I don't need to post there.

I don't remember exact details, but I did quit going to the ACA site after those two things. I am sure they are on my profile there or somewhere.

[rcwild]

Maybe this will help, Tanya. It's a screen shot of the visitor messages on your user profile.

[tanya]

It was the link or reference to Shane's climb-utah site then?

[Iceaxe]

From Shane's perspective, this is a true statement. We do heavily moderate his Glen Hyde, Bigfoot and other sock puppets.

Rich.... it's a Catch 22.... I create alter personalities because you don't moderate them, but even more important you don't severely restrict their movement and access to things like groups, pm's and email.......

And a little clarification.... a sock puppet is used to support an argument you are making. Which would be "Shane makes a statement and than Glen Hyde and Bigfoot jump in to support the statement...." I don't do that.... I created alter personalities to gain access.... So as you can clearly see, you are using the term 'sock Puppet' incorrectly....

Anyhoo.... you see the catch 22???

You are free to heavily moderate me and I am free to log in under an alias and look around unrestricted...... I don't know what you are whining about.... It's the game you created.... It's your game and your rules... I'm just anther player...

:popcorn:

[ratagonia]

Maybe this will help, Tanya. It's a screen shot of the visitor messages on your user profile.

Very interesting, Rich. but you never say "what the problem is". What was the problem? Inquiring minds want to know!!

:moses:

[Don]

From Shane's perspective, this is a true statement. We do heavily moderate his Glen Hyde, Bigfoot and other sock puppets.

Rich.... it's a Catch 22.... I create alter personalities because you don't moderate them, but even more important you don't severely restrict their movement and access to things like groups, pm's and email.......

And a little clarification.... a sock puppet is used to support an argument you are making. Which would be "Shane makes a statement and than Glen Hyde and Bigfoot jump in to support the statement...." I don't do that.... I created alter personalities to gain access.... So as you can clearly see, you are using the term 'sock Puppet' incorrectly....

Anyhoo.... you see the catch 22???

You are free to heavily moderate me and I am free to log in under an alias and look around unrestricted...... I don't know what you are whining about.... It's the game you created.... It's your game and your rules... I'm just anther player...

:popcorn:


Ahahahahahahahaha.

Cold war logic. Not taking sides, just saying this is funny shit.

[Lizzard]

Is Rich ever going to provide any facts? :ne_nau:

[ratagonia]

Is Rich ever going to provide any facts? :ne_nau:

Not really his style. :moses:

[tanya]

Tom? You are not interested? You live right by Zion and near Cedar and you are the Emperor. You run your business, so you know how to do that.

[ratagonia]

Tom? You are not interested? You live right by Zion and near Cedar and you are the Emperor. You run your business, so you know how to do that.

I have too many irons in the fire already. Also, my getting involved at this point would muck things up, since I am pretty much enemy #1 in Rich's Fantasy World.

Tom

[moab mark]

I should of not posted this in the other ACA thread, my bad. This thread is from a year ago. But sure sounds like the same one that is going on now.

[ratagonia]

I should of not posted this in the other ACA thread, my bad. This thread is from a year ago. But sure sounds like the same one that is going on now.

Deja Vu all over again............................. :cool2: :cool2:

[CarpeyBiggs]

this thread is now closed. no need to have TWO of these....