Wedge Salad

[BruteForce]

First, I've never seen nor had a Wedge Salad until a few weeks ago. I grew up and lived most of my life abroad (courtesy, US Army).

I attended a technical seminar a few weeks ago at Flemings Steak House (@ the Gateway) and they served up this salad). I decided to Google the recipe, found one that was similar and posted it on my blog site (that was intended for my friends & family).

Tonight, I received this email. I was quite perturbed. Can you (c) an American salad that is presumably widely known & made?

--
Hi James,

Please remove the photos and recipe of my wedge salad recipe from your website. If you like something, you're more than welcome to link to it. However, republishing my photos and recipe, including directions, on your blog is a violation of my copyright. I spend a lot of time cooking, photographing, and writing the recipes for my blog. While I enjoy sharing my recipes, having others republishing them without my permission is upsetting and illegal.

http://utahbruteforce.com/bruteforce/2009/11/iceberg-wedge-salad-with-bleu-cheese-dressing.html

----

While I immediately removed my blog post of this recipe, it really irritated me that this person went on the Twitter-sphere and started bitching about how rude I was and how little I knew about copyrights.

WTF has this country come to when you can't quote a persons fricking salad recipe?

[James_B_Wads2000]

Wait a minute... your name is James? :eek2:



James

[Cirrus2000]

Wait a minute... your name is James? :eek2:



James

I think it might be a pseudonym. I hear he goes by James - uh, what was it? Wadsmouth? Wordsworth? Something like that... :haha:

[Don]

Actually, I need to bring a salad to my brothers place tonight. Could you post it here? :naughty:

[stefan]

First, I've never seen nor had a Wedge Salad until a few weeks ago. I grew up and lived most of my life abroad (courtesy, US Army).

I attended a technical seminar a few weeks ago at Flemings Steak House (@ the Gateway) and they served up this salad). I decided to Google the recipe, found one that was similar and posted it on my blog site (that was intended for my friends & family).

Tonight, I received this email. I was quite perturbed. Can you (c) an American salad that is presumably widely known & made?

--
Hi James,

Please remove the photos and recipe of my wedge salad recipe from your website. If you like something, you're more than welcome to link to it. However, republishing my photos and recipe, including directions, on your blog is a violation of my copyright. I spend a lot of time cooking, photographing, and writing the recipes for my blog. While I enjoy sharing my recipes, having others republishing them without my permission is upsetting and illegal.

http://utahbruteforce.com/bruteforce/2009/11/iceberg-wedge-salad-with-bleu-cheese-dressing.html

----

While I immediately removed my blog post of this recipe, it really irritated me that this person went on the Twitter-sphere and started bitching about how rude I was and how little I knew about copyrights.

WTF has this country come to when you can't quote a persons fricking salad recipe?


if someone copyrights his page, you cannot go copying and pasting to your blog. seems pretty straightforward to me.

[DiscGo]

Actually, I need to bring a salad to my brothers place tonight. Could you post it here? :naughty:

:roflol:

[Sombeech]

I hereby copyright all of my posts. Anybody who quotes me will be sued.

[erial]

how about tweets? Are they copyrightable as well?

4:27 PM Dec 12th from web in reply to LadyDucayne http://utahbruteforce.com stole my photos & recipe & republishes it on his blog. Emailed him to request removal, he calls me an ass. Jerk!

So is a tweet always the result of a wedgie?

[Brewhaha]

This post is worthless with a picture and description of said salad.

[Sombeech]

Hey, sidetrack here (or as Dan would say, "classic bogley/Beech move")

I just went to Brute's site and I have to link this picture :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

(or am I stealing it? :haha: )

http://utahbruteforce.com/bruteforce/assets_c/2009/12/DSC_0285-thumb-800x531-840.jpg

[asdf]

Hey, sidetrack here (or as Dan would say, "classic bogley/Beech move")

I think whats referred to as "classic bogley/Beech move" is your lack of perspective.
What if someone was stealing your youtube videos removing the water mark and posting them on their website without crediting you? How would you feel in someone started copying the posts off the front page of bogley and loading them on to a website full of google adds?


I just went to Brute's site and I have to link this picture :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:
(or am I stealing it? :haha: )

That really depends on Brute.. I mean you did give him credit and that's all most people want.

[BruteForce]

Just to clear the air here (is that even possible), I did not remove watermarks or anything. I referenced the site, but forgot to put a LINK BACK to it.

I admit I over reacted after receiving the email and have since apologized to the person that put together the photos, etc.

As for content on my site, I don't claim (c) to any of it. It's freely accessible to anybody that wants to use it.

Thanks for sharing my Sub-for-Santa photo, Beech.

[Brewhaha]

Question on the picture:

Seems like I've seen that picture on the FAIL blog or the YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG blog.

;-)

[Sombeech]

How would you feel in someone started copying the posts off the front page of bogley and loading them on to a website full of google adds?

This actually happens all the time. We're honestly fine with it. I'm an open source kinda guy. It's not harming Bogley's reputation in any way. And when somebody wants more information on those copied posts, it will lead them to bogley one way or another.

Now, it's percieved that I don't believe in copyrighting something, which is false. I just don't believe in "lazy" copyrighting. If you put something on the internet and don't want it copied or linked, I've got some bad news.

The good news is, you can ALWAYS turn this into a good thing for your credit by watermarking the image. Then you will GLADLY let others copy your images and do the marketing for you.

And if you finally decide that you want to have them on your site but disable linking the images, there are multiple ways to do that too. Flash image slideshows, disabling right click on the page, watermarking.... A good technique is to post thumbnails, and require registration to view the full image. There are a lot of options to discourage copyright infringement. The honest truth is, if you're lazy about it, you will never be able to stop it. It doesn't mean they're right, but it will continue.

[Cirrus2000]

Question on the picture:

Seems like I've seen that picture on the FAIL blog or the YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG blog.

;-)
As long as you haven't seen it on Sketchy Santas: http://www.sketchysantas.com/

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__N70qf6G94U/Sx6Io78VSoI/AAAAAAAAAO8/ZDTRqmuE9c4/s320/55+santa.jpg
http://www.sketchysantas.com/

[Sombeech]

Thanks for sharing my Sub-for-Santa photo, Beech.

There's something about crying kids and Santa, but the dog... that was over the top for me. :lol8:

[BruteForce]

Question on the picture:

Seems like I've seen that picture on the FAIL blog or the YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG blog.

;-)

You ever try to be "Santa" and get three kids and dog tossed on your lap? My ratio wasn't too bad. Out of the 50+ kids that cycled through, only 3 or 4 were crying.

[asdf]

This actually happens all the time. We're honestly fine with it. I'm an open source kinda guy. It's not harming Bogley's reputation in any way. And when somebody wants more information on those copied posts, it will lead them to bogley one way or another.

Wait...
I was talking about not getting any credit at all for your work, not something that eventually leads back to you.
Also I am unaware of anything open source that does not give credit where credit is due

and on that note you guys should check this new browser I created -
I call it.. FireFox.
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/upgrade.html

[Sombeech]

Wait...
I was talking about not getting any credit at all for your work, not something that eventually leads back to you.

But the point of this thread was that Brute linked to the owner's site.

Besides, if somebody links to one of my pictures and doesn't provide any link back, I can try to waste hours of my time trying to stop that one instance, tweet about it, complain a little on facebook, and maybe it will get taken down. But what about the 10 sites I don't come across?

I might as well use my time more wisely. ...starting with that list I mentioned before on lazy copyrighting.

Now with you, Summit, you take some amazing photos. You put a lot of work into what you do. You would actually care a lot more than me if one of your photos was posted elsewhere without credit. I completely understand that.

But the salad photo, I didn't see it, but I imagine it was just a point and shoot camera taking a picture of what they made.... getting the recipe from somebody else as well. The owner most likely didn't realize this was doing some marketing for them because it reached a more broad audience than what she was currently reaching. This being said, I haven't been to that site, and have no idea what it's about.

And if she didn't want a broad audience, that it was only intended for family and friends, she should have set it private.

[Cirrus2000]

Wait...
I was talking about not getting any credit at all for your work, not something that eventually leads back to you.
But the point of this thread was that Brute linked to the owner's site.


I referenced the site, but forgot to put a LINK BACK to it.

You know, I think it would have been better if BruteForce had simply posted a link:

Hey everybody, I found a great salad, you can get the recipe here:

http://wanderingchopsticks.blogspot.com/2008/04/iceberg-wedge-salad-with-bleublue.html

[Sombeech]

But the point of this thread was that Brute linked to the owner's site.


I referenced the site, but forgot to put a LINK BACK to it.

My mistake. I assumed he linked back after he was contacted.




You know, I think it would have been better if BruteForce had simply posted a link:

Hey everybody, I found a great salad, you can get the recipe here:

http://wanderingchopsticks.blogspot.com/2008/04/iceberg-wedge-salad-with-bleublue.html

This is true, you can never go wrong here - I take that back, even some people don't like links.

[BruteForce]

Beech, her photo had her watermark embedded and I didn't change it at all.

Here's one of the offending photos:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2239/2468153843_caf69a9f7b.jpg

The URL is: http://wanderingchopsticks.blogspot.com/2008/04/iceberg-wedge-salad-with-bleublue.html

Not a bad salad, but we spruced it up with Hydroponic cherry tomatoes and cran-raisins.

[asdf]

But the point of this thread was that Brute linked to the owner's site.

Oops I missed that part.
Without seeing both the original site and the repost this is all just internet banter.


Besides, if somebody links to one of my pictures and doesn't provide any link back, I can try to waste hours of my time trying to stop that one instance, tweet about it, complain a little on facebook, and maybe it will get taken down. But what about the 10 sites I don't come across?

This happen to me all the time, unless I see the someone is trying to profit with adds ect. on their site I just let it go. Last week I ran across a trip report for Stewart Falls on a Momblog that used my photos.... she even had a few comments about how beautiful the photos of the falls were.



Now with you, Summit, you take some amazing photos. You put a lot of work into what you do. You would actually care a lot more than me if one of your photos was posted elsewhere without credit. I completely understand that.

Thanks, my hard work just starting to pay off, as of last week I am officially a Getty Images Contributor. But like you said earlier if you are going to post something online there is no point if getting you panties in a bunch if the images is stolen. I rarely post best/favorite images online... that's what prints are for :)

[Sombeech]

Last week I ran across a trip report for Stewart Falls on a Momblog that used my photos.... she even had a few comments about how beautiful the photos of the falls were.

I'll bet she was "strategically quiet" on her reply to the commentors. :haha:

On a serious note, I've got an opinion on how I would react if my content were copied, and that's just my opinion. I have to realize that many people do not share this opinion, and they truly do have the rights to their content. I fully support the methods of making that content harder to copy though.

I think it is assumed with the general internet population that if you can Right Click and "Copy Image URL", then it's all fair game. Flickr actually makes it easy to disable the copy, or even "save the image" to computer. I've noticed many times the "spaceball.gif" image with 0 kb in size. This was smart on the Flickr account owner's part.

[asdf]

Last week I ran across a trip report for Stewart Falls on a Momblog that used my photos.... she even had a few comments about how beautiful the photos of the falls were.

I'll bet she was "strategically quiet" on her reply to the commentors. :haha:


I also found the awkwardness of the situation pretty hysterical. :roflol:

[Scott Card]

It's not harming Bogley's reputation in any way. :roflol: What reputation? sorry, this just struck me kinda funny

[BruteForce]

Oh, Google has my blog posting cached. Looks like I did link back to her site after all. Not sure what all the fuss was about then. I didn't claim it was my recipe, didn't alter the photos, just linked to her site and copy/pasted the recipe.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:wJyDaC4-fBoJ:utahbruteforce.com/bruteforce/2009/11/iceberg-wedge-salad-with-bleu-cheese-dressing.html+%22Wedge+Salad%22+%2BUtahbruteforce&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Sombeech]

It's not harming Bogley's reputation in any way. :roflol: What reputation? sorry, this just struck me kinda funny

Hey, if it's already got a bad reputation, it can't get any worse.

[Scott Card]

It's not harming Bogley's reputation in any way. :roflol: What reputation? sorry, this just struck me kinda funny

Hey, if it's already got a bad reputation, it can't get any worse.Hey, I hope you know I was joking. :nod: :2thumbs:

[Sombeech]

It's not harming Bogley's reputation in any way. :roflol: What reputation? sorry, this just struck me kinda funny

Hey, if it's already got a bad reputation, it can't get any worse.Hey, I hope you know I was joking. :nod: :2thumbs:

of course :mrgreen:

[stefan]

Oh, Google has my blog posting cached. Looks like I did link back to her site after all. Not sure what all the fuss was about then. I didn't claim it was my recipe, didn't alter the photos, just linked to her site and copy/pasted the recipe.


umm ... i think it's pretty obvious what the fuss was about.

[BruteForce]

Oh, Google has my blog posting cached. Looks like I did link back to her site after all. Not sure what all the fuss was about then. I didn't claim it was my recipe, didn't alter the photos, just linked to her site and copy/pasted the recipe.


umm ... i think it's pretty obvious what the fuss was about.

Dude, why are you copying/pasting my message? You're in violation of my (c). Couldn't you just have LINKED to it without copying it?

This post (c) by BruteForce 2009

:naughty:

[Sombeech]

This is the EXACT thing that we do while posting a news story. For example, most of us post the link from KSL.com, cnn, foxnews, yahoo news..... And then we usually copy and paste the article.

This is done on almost every single post in the Political section, and almost every news item in General Discussion.

I haven't read the legal policies on those sites, nor will I ever, but I'm not expecting them to throw a fuss over copying and pasting the text, especially if we've got a link to the original story.

Once again, what flows with some might not flow with others, but I think we can agree that this wasn't a travesty. James was not posting it for financial gain, and he was just making it easier for his non-internet experienced family, that maybe clicking another link would have lost them.

[BruteForce]

This is the EXACT thing that we do while posting a news story. For example, most of us post the link from KSL.com, cnn, foxnews, yahoo news..... And then we usually copy and paste the article.

This is done on almost every single post in the Political section, and almost every news item in General Discussion.

I haven't read the legal policies on those sites, nor will I ever, but I'm not expecting them to throw a fuss over copying and pasting the text, especially if we've got a link to the original story.

Once again, what flows with some might not flow with others, but I think we can agree that this wasn't a travesty. James was not posting it for financial gain, and he was just making it easier for his non-internet experienced family, that maybe clicking another link would have lost them.

Agreed. On almost every site I've ever visited, the original URL is cited (referenced), then the article/post/graphic/whatever is copied/pasted to make it easier to read.

[stefan]

This is the EXACT thing that we do while posting a news story. For example, most of us post the link from KSL.com, cnn, foxnews, yahoo news..... And then we usually copy and paste the article.

This is done on almost every single post in the Political section, and almost every news item in General Discussion.

I haven't read the legal policies on those sites, nor will I ever, but I'm not expecting them to throw a fuss over copying and pasting the text, especially if we've got a link to the original story.


it's well known that this sort of thing is illegal.

[stefan]

the funny thing, brute, looking at your blog post, you make the referencing pretty much appear nonexistent. and unless someone mouses over your link, for all they know it's simply a colored title.

[BruteForce]

This is the EXACT thing that we do while posting a news story. For example, most of us post the link from KSL.com, cnn, foxnews, yahoo news..... And then we usually copy and paste the article.

This is done on almost every single post in the Political section, and almost every news item in General Discussion.

I haven't read the legal policies on those sites, nor will I ever, but I'm not expecting them to throw a fuss over copying and pasting the text, especially if we've got a link to the original story.


it's well known that this sort of thing is illegal.

Illegal? If that's the case, then most Army Rangers are apparently guilty of illegally copying links. Would you like to take your case to their website, or is it just convenient for you now and here?

And as for my link back, it was one of the few that I failed to accentuate the link - and that mistake was not intentional. As you surely saw on the cached post, I did not try to even insinuate the recipe as being mine.

Maybe it's time to have less starch in your boxers?

Yet another thread destined for Rubbish or Political section.

[Sombeech]

it's well known that this sort of thing is illegal.

Well, don't worry, I won't turn you in. :roflol:

[stefan]

This is the EXACT thing that we do while posting a news story. For example, most of us post the link from KSL.com, cnn, foxnews, yahoo news..... And then we usually copy and paste the article.

This is done on almost every single post in the Political section, and almost every news item in General Discussion.

I haven't read the legal policies on those sites, nor will I ever, but I'm not expecting them to throw a fuss over copying and pasting the text, especially if we've got a link to the original story.


it's well known that this sort of thing is illegal.

Illegal? If that's the case, then most Army Rangers are apparently guilty of illegally copying links. Would you like to take your case to their website, or is it just convenient for you now and here?


brute, just wanna be clear here, i don't have a case to take up. you posted here and i am simply commenting based on copyright policy as i understand it. i am not telling you what you should or shouldn't do. put another way, stating something is illegal is different from telling someone not to do it.



And as for my link back, it was one of the few that I failed to accentuate the link - and that mistake was not intentional. As you surely saw on the cached post, I did not try to even insinuate the recipe as being mine.


i don't believe you were trying to pass it off on your own. the only reason i am commenting at all about this is because of the way the person responded to you about the situation which seems to be the reason you posted this thread in the first place. so, you've taken someone else's content and made zero effort to explicitly reference the site. you only provide a cryptic link. if you're going to quote this guy's website, then you could have, for example, used a sentence to say where you got it from and that you're posting it here and then in that same sentence you could have used the hyperlink to guide a person to his site. without any explicit reference, i can see how some folks are going to react the way this person did with you using their content.

[stefan]

it's well known that this sort of thing is illegal.

Well, don't worry, I won't turn you in. :roflol:

:phew: :haha:

[BruteForce]

brute, just wanna be clear here, i don't have a case to take up. you posted here and i am simply commenting based on copyright policy as i understand it. i am not telling you what you should or shouldn't do. put another way, stating something is illegal is different from telling someone not to do it.



And as for my link back, it was one of the few that I failed to accentuate the link - and that mistake was not intentional. As you surely saw on the cached post, I did not try to even insinuate the recipe as being mine.


i don't believe you were trying to pass it off on your own. the only reason i am commenting at all about this is because of the way the person responded to you about the situation which seems to be the reason you posted this thread in the first place. so, you've taken someone else's content and made zero effort to explicitly reference the site. you only provide a cryptic link. if you're going to quote this guy's website, then you could have, for example, used a sentence to say where you got it from and that you're posting it here and then in that same sentence you could have used the hyperlink to guide a person to his site. without any explicit reference, i can see how some folks are going to react the way this person did with you using their content.

Understood. I took the post off immediately upon request. I admitted that my immediate response was rude and apologized.

I find it hard to believe that it's illegal to quote somebody else's post. Unethical possibly (if you link back), but illegal? I doubt it.

[stefan]

I find it hard to believe that it's illegal to quote somebody else's post. Unethical possibly (if you link back), but illegal? I doubt it.

my "illegal" comment was regarding what beech was talking about, which is essentially cutting and pasting the entirety of an article from a news site and posting it somewhere on the web. these news sites have copyright policies about all of their content on how it should be used. this (generally speaking) is specifically not permitted by the news sites and is illegal.

quoting (with a proper reference) is fine, however, when quoting it is assumed that you're only quoting a little bit rather than a lot, and certainly not the entirety of something (like an article for example). since recipes tend to be short, one may be able to get away with quoting an entire recipe with a proper citation. but my feeling is that this falls in that gray area of the fair use doctrine.

my general feeling is that reproducing the core of someone's web content on your own page without their permission is violating the spirit of their copyright. a number of people use a copyright notice to describe the use of their content. for example, some people don't mind reprinting photos for non-commercial use as long as proper credit/reference is given and this will be stated in their copyright policy. i could imagine someone doing this with their recipes too.

[BruteForce]

I find it hard to believe that it's illegal to quote somebody else's post. Unethical possibly (if you link back), but illegal? I doubt it.

my "illegal" comment was regarding what beech was talking about, which is essentially cutting and pasting the entirety of an article from a news site and posting it somewhere on the web. these news sites have copyright policies about all of their content on how it should be used. this (generally speaking) is specifically not permitted by the news sites and is illegal.

quoting (with a proper reference) is fine, however, when quoting it is assumed that you're only quoting a little bit rather than a lot, and certainly not the entirety of something (like an article for example). since recipes tend to be short, one may be able to get away with quoting an entire recipe with a proper citation. but my feeling is that this falls in that gray area of the fair use doctrine.

my general feeling is that reproducing the core of someone's web content on your own page without their permission is violating the spirit of their copyright. a number of people use a copyright notice to describe the use of their content. for example, some people don't mind reprinting photos for non-commercial use as long as proper credit/reference is given and this will be stated in their copyright policy. i could imagine someone doing this with their recipes too.

I can't say that I disagree with anything you've stated. When I do copy/paste a news story, I always try to have a direct and obvious link to the original story/site. It might not be 100% ethical, but its easier for those that read my blog.

[Sun Dance]

Kind of a pain. I'm all for giving credit where credit is due, but this IS the internet. The vast majority of users could care less about copyright infringement (see torrents, LimeWire, old Napster, etc.). Also, what exactly does this chick do with her time that she is so paranoid to specifically find your post that plagiarized her work?

[asdf]

Kind of a pain. I'm all for giving credit where credit is due, but this IS the internet. The vast majority of users could care less about copyright infringement (see torrents, LimeWire, old Napster, etc.).

Honestly I see a very vague connection here.
If I torrent a Beatles album full credit is given to the artists and the record company misses out on the check.



Also, what exactly does this chick do with her time that she is so paranoid to specifically find your post that plagiarized her work?

WordPress has built in link back feature, as soon as the link is created it shows up on your admin panel.