Scott Card
12-11-2009, 11:17 PM
I'll bite, Tom.
The facts:
* An early December day has what, 10 hours of sun light?
* It is cold already and colder in the shade and colder yet deep in the canyon
* The canyon was a first time adventure for those going in, therefore so was the somewhat discrete exit crack.
* The crack exit is at the end of the adventure...darkness?
* Being new to the canyon all obstacles would be unknown and would need to be solved
* I don't remember if the skill level and experience of the canyoneers was listed but it sounded like there was some skill and a few canyons under their belt
* There were only two
Available information:
From Climb-Utah.com
The information I was hearing was greatly mixed. Some mentioned a brutal 10 hour day while others mentioned a refreshing 5 hour romp. So what was the truth, why are some groups suffering and others frolicking? These questions and many more will be answered.
From Tom's Utah Canyoneering Guide
Length: About 8 hours.
Difficulties: Lots of strenuous narrows, quite a few downclimbs and a few rappels. Can require swimming in narrow slots. Natural anchor skills required. A long day in a remote location.
That is the introductory, free info on two widely used sites on the interwebs.
My quick analysis: Having done Larry many, many times, I now would have no problem doing this canyon in December with the short days. The reason is that I know the canyon and the exit is obvious to me. I have the way points in my GPS but haven't used them since the first time through. I can spot the exit from above because I have had to spot a truck many times. I remember the first time in. Like most first time descents, it was a grand adventure. We were hyper prepared and had a fairly large group. We spotted vehicles pursuant to the GPS points on Climb Utah. We went in May or June when the days were long. The leaders of the group had multiple canyons but only in Zion and only a few else where on the plateau.
I tend to be cautious hence the reason I have the reputation as the brake pedal in my Mapleton group. When I look at new canyons, I look at the hike times listed and gauge a first descent after the longest times. Now I have never taken that long but I gauge my times on the longer of the times in planning the first hike including get up and go times.
I also tend to like larger groups particularly on first descents. I like to have a lot of rope and equipment for a first time and enough people to go for help and enough people to stay and help in case of an emergency. With only two people, the hike in or out would have taken longer, hence cut into the short daylight hours.
My opinion is that I probably wouldn't have done a first descent of Larry in December with two people. Too many variables with weather, time, darkness, only one partner, and the unknown of the somewhat obscure exit would have (and did) worried me to the point of passing on the canyon.
Is this the kind of thing you were hoping for, Tom? Fire away and let's see what decisions you would have made given the above facts and any other factors ya'll think of. :popcorn:
The facts:
* An early December day has what, 10 hours of sun light?
* It is cold already and colder in the shade and colder yet deep in the canyon
* The canyon was a first time adventure for those going in, therefore so was the somewhat discrete exit crack.
* The crack exit is at the end of the adventure...darkness?
* Being new to the canyon all obstacles would be unknown and would need to be solved
* I don't remember if the skill level and experience of the canyoneers was listed but it sounded like there was some skill and a few canyons under their belt
* There were only two
Available information:
From Climb-Utah.com
The information I was hearing was greatly mixed. Some mentioned a brutal 10 hour day while others mentioned a refreshing 5 hour romp. So what was the truth, why are some groups suffering and others frolicking? These questions and many more will be answered.
From Tom's Utah Canyoneering Guide
Length: About 8 hours.
Difficulties: Lots of strenuous narrows, quite a few downclimbs and a few rappels. Can require swimming in narrow slots. Natural anchor skills required. A long day in a remote location.
That is the introductory, free info on two widely used sites on the interwebs.
My quick analysis: Having done Larry many, many times, I now would have no problem doing this canyon in December with the short days. The reason is that I know the canyon and the exit is obvious to me. I have the way points in my GPS but haven't used them since the first time through. I can spot the exit from above because I have had to spot a truck many times. I remember the first time in. Like most first time descents, it was a grand adventure. We were hyper prepared and had a fairly large group. We spotted vehicles pursuant to the GPS points on Climb Utah. We went in May or June when the days were long. The leaders of the group had multiple canyons but only in Zion and only a few else where on the plateau.
I tend to be cautious hence the reason I have the reputation as the brake pedal in my Mapleton group. When I look at new canyons, I look at the hike times listed and gauge a first descent after the longest times. Now I have never taken that long but I gauge my times on the longer of the times in planning the first hike including get up and go times.
I also tend to like larger groups particularly on first descents. I like to have a lot of rope and equipment for a first time and enough people to go for help and enough people to stay and help in case of an emergency. With only two people, the hike in or out would have taken longer, hence cut into the short daylight hours.
My opinion is that I probably wouldn't have done a first descent of Larry in December with two people. Too many variables with weather, time, darkness, only one partner, and the unknown of the somewhat obscure exit would have (and did) worried me to the point of passing on the canyon.
Is this the kind of thing you were hoping for, Tom? Fire away and let's see what decisions you would have made given the above facts and any other factors ya'll think of. :popcorn: