Wayne County Search and Rescue

[Canyongirl]

Saturday at four o clock pm my husband Jaxx recieved a call from our SPOT satelite beacon. The man on the phone says they've been recieveing 911 messages from our SPOT. My husband informs them that his dad and brother have our SPOT and are doing Larry canyon in the roost area. SPOT says they'll contact SAR right away. Jaxx is of course in a panick and he and his bro in law Chabidiah pack up there gear and head out to the roost about a 3 to 4 hour drive. Just after 8 o clock they call Wayne county SAR to get an update and are told they just headed out at 8 o clock. Feeling frustrated they continue on to the roost. They arrive about 10 o clock pm and contact SAR again to get an update. SAR informs them that they decided it was too late and they won't look for them until morning. Jaxx and Chabidiah set out along the rim of Larrys canyon yelling down into it and at about 1 o clock in the morning find them deep in the canyon. Jaxx's dad has a torn ACL and is in very bad pain. But they have built a fire and are warm and have plenty of food and water. The next morning Jaxx and chabidiah wait for SAR who doesn't show up until 10 am. They lead SAR to where they are stuck in the canyon and SAR rapels into the canyon and decides to hoist him out using a helicopter. The helicopter doesn't arrive until 5:00 pm. It lifts Jaxx's dad out but says it is now getting to dark to get Jaxx's bro or the SAR out and the helicopter leaves. none of SAR have head lamps. Jaxx's brother is pretty inexperienced also only having done 2 or 3 canyons always with his dad. So Jaxx and Chabidiah choose to go at 7:00 pm to the end of the canyon and hike up to meet the group and help them down the canyon. That is the last I have heard and am freaking out at home wondering if their okay. I am so mad and scared that something will now happen to them.

Edited due to incorrect info relayed to me.

[Don]

:eek1: Holy shit! What a story! Keep us up to date.

[oldno7]

Those 2 guys are smart and competent. I'm sure they will excercise caution and do what is right. It's scary not knowing, but I would put your confidence in them.
Please keep us posted......

[Cirrus2000]

Wow, that's pretty messed up - were they really sending inexperienced folks in there? It will be interesting to get the full story later.

I'm sure they'll all be fine, but keep us informed. In the meantime, try & get some sleep...

I look forward to hearing Jaxx and Chabidiah tell their tale!

[CarpeyBiggs]

wow. first and foremost, i hope everyone returns safe and sound.

secondly, it is wayne county. the population is something like 2500, TOTAL. of those, maybe a handful volunteer on SAR, and they are probably from multiple towns. tt would be tough to expect any of those to be properly trained in technical rescues. they are all volunteers, and no doubt, had to drive a long way to get to larry canyon (since larry is about as remote as it gets for wayne county.)

i'm confident it will all work out. in the meantime, jaxx is a good one to have out there, it may be uncomfortable but they'll get 'er done.

[Deathcricket]

Well really you can't blame them. Next time anyone wants to have an accident, they should have it during ideal working hours. I mean who wants to go do a rescue in the cold or get paid overtime?

Seriously though, OMG! I'm absolutely sure they will be fine though and have a great story to talk about. Jaxx is one of the more levelheaded canyoneers I've been with, and his experience is off the charts. Still my positive thoughts going your guy's way this evening. Mostly for you so you don't worry too much, I'm sure this is nerve wracking. If anyone gets cold, Jaxx will be sure to deploy his bottle of liquid sunshine depicted in this picture.
:2thumbs:

[blueeyes]

Hang in there Canyongirl my prayers are with you and Jaxx and the rest. I enjoyed meeting Jaxx in August at Bogley fest. Let us know as soon as you hear they are safe.

[Scott P]

secondly, it is wayne county. the population is something like 2500, TOTAL. of those, maybe a handful volunteer on SAR, and they are probably from multiple towns. tt would be tough to expect any of those to be properly trained in technical rescues. they are all volunteers, and no doubt, had to drive a long way to get to larry canyon (since larry is about as remote as it gets for wayne county.)

I agree. In Wayne County, SAR is more used for things like rescuing hunters and ATV drivers, which don't require things like rope skills nor are they usually that far from roads. It is unlikely that many are trained in technical canyon or technical rock rescue. This is true for many rural county SAR's including the local ones around here. They don't perform many rescues of this type and should be given a break.

I hope everyone there is safe and makes it out OK and with no further injury. I wish everyone involved the best of luck.

[Sombeech]

good luck fellas. Looking forward to hearing all about it when you're safe at home.

[Sombeech]

Then SAR yells up to Jaxx and Chabidiah that they are not prepared to hike a technical canyon, none of them have head lamps, and most of them have never rapelled before today and didn't know what they were doing!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

[DiscGo]

Oh my gosh! I love Jaxx and I sincerely hope and will pray that all is well for you and yours. Good luck. Our thoughts and prayers are with you guys.

[Sombeech]

Not being sarcastic here, but what took so long to get the helicopter the next morning? Did they have to rent it out somewhere?

I wonder if they all knew they couldn't do any technical hiking, and were hoping that the people in the canyon would just find a way out.

[CarpeyBiggs]

canyongirl, do you think more assistance is helpful? there are some people who are likely available and valuable enough to be of significant help. feel free to contact me via PM if you think it would help.

[ratagonia]

Saturday at four o clock pm my husband Jaxx recieved a call from our SPOT satelite beacon. The man on the phone says they've been recieveing 911 messages from our SPOT. My husband informs them that his dad and brother have our SPOT and are doing Larry canyon in the roost area. SPOT says they'll contact SAR right away. Jaxx is of course in a panick and he and his bro in law Chabidiah pack up there gear and head out to the roost about a 3 to 4 hour drive. Just after 8 o clock they call Wayne county SAR to get an update and are told they just headed out at 8 o clock. Feeling frustrated they continue on to the roost. They arrive about 10 o clock pm and contact SAR again to get an update. SAR informs them that they decided it was too late and they won't look for them until morning. Frustrated Jaxx and Chabidiah set out along the rim of Larrys canyon yelling down into it and at about 1 o clock in the morning find them deep in the canyon. Jaxx's dad has a torn ACL and is in very bad pain. But they have built a fire and are warm and have plenty of food and water. The next morning Jaxx and chabidiah wait for SAR who doesn't show up until close until noon. They lead SAR to where they are stuck in the canyon and SAR rapels into the canyon and decides to hoist him out using a helicopter. The helicopter doesn't arrive until 5:00 pm. It lifts Jaxx dad out but says it is now getting to dark to get Jaxx's bro or the SAR out and the helicopter leaves. Then SAR yells up to Jaxx and Chabidiah that they are not prepared to hike a technical canyon, none of them have head lamps, and most of them have never rapelled before today and didn't know what they were doing! Jaxx's brother is pretty inexperienced also only having done 2 or 3 canyons always with his dad. So Jaxx and Chabidiah choose to go at 7:00 pm to the end of the canyon and hike up. Apparently they will have to climb up two rapells to meet the group and help them down the canyon. That is the last I have heard and am freaking out at home wondering if their okay and not too happy about the choice they made to climb up the rapels in the dark. I can't believe they are having to rescue SAR. I am so mad and scared that something will now happen to them. Useless Wayne county SAR. :frustrated:

Canyon Girl, if you are still awake, give me a call (before 1:00 AM).

Tom Jones 435-648-3089 I'm thinking of heading out there - looking for a few more details.

The upclimb is not AT the last two raps, it is off to the side. Not too hard, but would be difficult to find a reasonable line in the dark.

Tom

[Canyongirl]

just talked to jaxx and him and chabidiah couldn't find the group of jaxx's bro and 6 SAR so they came back out of the canyon. he said they finally got a helicopter from page AZ who will come and try to find these guys and get them out before the big storm hits. the helicopters eta is 3 min so hopefully this group can all be rescued quickly. thanks for everyones concern.

[CarpeyBiggs]

just talked to jaxx and him and chabidiah couldn't find the group of jaxx's bro and 6 SAR so they came back out of the canyon. he said they finally got a helicopter from page AZ who will come and try to find these guys and get them out before the big storm hits. the helicopters eta is 3 min so hopefully this group can all be rescued quickly. thanks for everyones concern.

That's great news I think. That storm had a few of us worried. Hoping for the best!

[ratagonia]

Excellent. Please keep us posted.

Tom

[blueeyes]

Anyword yet?

[DiscGo]

I keep hoping that I'll come on Bogley and see that the most recent post was from Jaxx. I sure hope they are now safe.

Tom- I think you are awesome for your willingness to go out last night. I sure think you are great!

[Scott P]

Sounds like it may be good news. Hopefully they are out now and will be home safely.

[Canyongirl]

I got a text at 4:30 this morning saying that they are spending the night in Green River. So they must have all got out ok.

[Deeps]

What a relief!

Looking forward to reading the story. Hope Jaxx's dad is feeling better and recovers quickly.

[Sombeech]

Awesome. Can't wait to hear more about it. Thanks Canyongirl.

[oldno7]

I got a text at 4:30 this morning saying that they are spending the night in Green River. So they must have all got out ok.

Thank's for the update

[Bo_Beck]

I got a text at 4:30 this morning saying that they are spending the night in Green River. So they must have all got out ok.

Woohoo! Great news! :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

This is old but I thought some might like reading it....

Rescuers trying to reach lost hiker in Wayne County

Desert News
Sunday, Dec. 6, 2009 5:10 p.m. MST

HANKSVILLE, Wayne County

[hank moon]

I got a text at 4:30 this morning saying that they are spending the night in Green River. So they must have all got out ok.

Whew! Good news - thanks for the inside story on this.

[blueeyes]

Yeah! Glad to hear they are okay. Waiting for Jaxx's story.

[Scott Card]

Dang. I hope all turns out well.

I wonder if it would be helpful to have a few guys on standby, or known to the various groups, for such events. I know a few of us Mapleton boys would have gone in a heartbeat and we have night canyon experience and a fair amount of rescue training and a bunch of rope. Not too sure if we or others could have helped get the dad out any sooner but we certainly could have packed a bunch of gear in to make the stay more comfortable.

Just a thought.

[Iceaxe]

A little FYI that might be helpful to know at a future date.

The Canyonland's Maze Ranger station is located only a couple of miles from Larry Canyon. The National Park rangers will respond to SAR in the area and they are much better equiped and trained to handle this type of rescue. They also have the abilities of bring the resources of the federal government into play. The Canyonland rangers are familiar and have access to all the route descriptions on Climb-Utah.com, which has proven beneficial in the past (the NP rangers know where to look).

I have no clue how Spot works... or who has actual control over this type of rescue.... I just know if the rescue alert goes out to the Maze NP rangers they will respond.

I do know that Wayne County SAR is good at finding lost hikers and hunters. I also know they are completely out of their element when it comes to technical canyon rescues. If you call Wayne County they will come running to help, but they will all be mounted on the back of ATV's and in Jeeps. It's just the nature of the beast....

:cool2:

[ratagonia]

I keep hoping that I'll come on Bogley and see that the most recent post was from Jaxx. I sure hope they are now safe.

Tom- I think you are awesome for your willingness to go out last night. I sure think you are great!

Thanks, but after a long day, it proved unrealistic. I, like us all, worry. 12" of snow here right now.

Tom

[ratagonia]

A little FYI that might be helpful to know at a future date.

The Canyonland's Maze Ranger station is located only a couple of miles from Larry Canyon. The National Park rangers will respond to SAR in the area and they are much better equiped and trained to handle this type of rescue. They also have the abilities of bring the resources of the federal government into play. The Canyonland rangers are familiar and have access to all the route descriptions on Climb-Utah.com, which has proven beneficial in the past (the NP rangers know where to look).


Who ya gonna call?

Good point Ice - it MATTERS, a lot!

The county is loathe to call in the feds, even if they think of it, which they won't. The feds have to clear their participation with the county sherrif, but the county rarely turns down the help once offered, especially in a far corner of their territory. Grand County SAR and the Canyonlands/Arches SAR are really good, play well together, and know what the word 'technical' means. CALL THE FEDS on the slimmest of excuses.

Tom :moses:

[Cirrus2000]

Good to hear that everyone is OK! Looking forward to more - I hope they remembered to take lots of photos!!!

Interesting stuff, Shane. The SPOT call centre basically has a database of the SAR organization responsible for every region. They look at where the 911 came from, and call the appropriate agency. From there, it's in that agency's hands.

It might just be in canyoneers' best interest to convince Wayne County SAR to make the call to bring in the NPS's big guns when something involving ropes comes up. Perhaps some discussion with the people in charge, looking at their policies on this kind of rescue, is in order.

:popcorn:

[Alex]

SPOT routes the call to the nearest COUNTY S&R. I don't think there is a way to route the call to Federal S&R. Another way would be is to set the SPOT message to tell your relatives/friends to call Fed S&R manually.

Regardless, I am very happy to see another happy end SPOT rescue. I carry that thing with me everywhere.

[accadacca]

Scary stuff. Glad you heard from them and I'll be interested to hear from Jaxx.

[Sombeech]

Another way would be is to set the SPOT message to tell your relatives/friends to call Fed S&R manually.

That sounds like a good option if you have little faith in a certain agency.

[ratagonia]

Good to hear that everyone is OK! Looking forward to more - I hope they remembered to take lots of photos!!!

Interesting stuff, Shane. The SPOT call centre basically has a database of the SAR organization responsible for every region. They look at where the 911 came from, and call the appropriate agency. From there, it's in that agency's hands.

It might just be in canyoneers' best interest to convince Wayne County SAR to make the call to bring in the NPS's big guns when something involving ropes comes up. Perhaps some discussion with the people in charge, looking at their policies on this kind of rescue, is in order.

:popcorn:

It is a "limited information problem". If your tool is good at looking for lost hikers, every call-out looks like a lost hiker. By the time they figured out it was a technical rescue, it was WAY too late.

Maybe it is time to build our own SAR system. The Hanksville area is especially poor in SAR resources, largely because no one lives out there, including none of us. We are all 5-6 hours away. Makes it more difficult.

thoughts??

Tom :moses:

[Iceaxe]

It might just be in canyoneers' best interest to convince Wayne County SAR to make the call to bring in the NPS's big guns when something involving ropes comes up.

Wayne County is not really interested in advise.... or at least that's my understanding.....

I have good relations with most of the SAR teams in Utah, Wayne County is not one of them (not saying I have bad relations). Wayne County is a little quirky, upper management has it's own ideas.... my relations through Wayne County consist of a couple lower level individuals, upper management has never had an interest in hearing or talking with canyoneers..... YMMV....

:cool2:

[Scott Card]

Good to hear that everyone is OK! Looking forward to more - I hope they remembered to take lots of photos!!!

Interesting stuff, Shane. The SPOT call centre basically has a database of the SAR organization responsible for every region. They look at where the 911 came from, and call the appropriate agency. From there, it's in that agency's hands.

It might just be in canyoneers' best interest to convince Wayne County SAR to make the call to bring in the NPS's big guns when something involving ropes comes up. Perhaps some discussion with the people in charge, looking at their policies on this kind of rescue, is in order.

:popcorn:

It is a "limited information problem". If your tool is good at looking for lost hikers, every call-out looks like a lost hiker. By the time they figured out it was a technical rescue, it was WAY too late.

Maybe it is time to build our own SAR system. The Hanksville area is especially poor in SAR resources, largely because no one lives out there, including none of us. We are all 5-6 hours away. Makes it more difficult.

thoughts??

Tom :moses:

3-3.5 hours from Mapleton!!!

[CarpeyBiggs]

my relations through Wayne County consist of a couple lower level individuals, upper management has never had an interest in hearing or talking with canyoneers..... YMMV....


if this stuff keeps happening, something tells me they will soon want to talk with canyoneers. what's this, 3 or 4 in the last year now?

[Iceaxe]

My take is that what we do is just beyond the comprehension of Wayne Counties upper management... more like.... "you guys go down in little slot canyons? You guys do that intentionally? Why would anyone want to do that? That's just crazy talk...."

:ne_nau:

[trackrunner]

Maybe it is time to build our own SAR system. The Hanksville area is especially poor in SAR resources, largely because no one lives out there, including none of us. We are all 5-6 hours away. Makes it more difficult.

thoughts??

Tom :moses:

I would offer go and help out when needed.

[ratagonia]

My take is that what we do is just beyond the comprehension of Wayne Counties upper management... more like.... "you guys go down in little slot canyons? You guys do that intentionally? Why would anyone want to do that? That's just crazy talk...."

:ne_nau:

Practically word for word from one of the deputy's I met with.

T

[chabidiah]

Thats really funny! We heard the same comment a few times from a few individuals. But everything is ok, they pulled the the brother and 6 SAR members out by heli and we booked it out of there. Jaxx is much better at posting up and I'm sure he and his family will post up the complete story. That was exciting and I tip my hats to proficient night canyon navigators, it is a lot harder than one might think...not to mention that it was hard to communicate with SAR with a dead radio...
But all in all we just needed a good excuse to head out and do some exploring.

Kurt this might be a good opportunity to market to Wanye County for some training :haha:

[oldno7]

Glad you guys were there to be of service, it was probably a huge comfort to Nick's Dad and brother. What's Nick doing, taking a nap?? He should be doing a write-up.
Very glad to hear all is well. :nod:

[dbaxter]

Really, Really happy to hear everyone is safe! I can only imagine what family members were going through, waiting for news.
Hope everyone has good memories for this holiday season. Take care and be safe.

[Brewhaha]

Glad things turned out okay. I'm also glad that there is such a great community of experienced and caring individuals who look out for each other.

[ScoutColorado]

I always thought that SPOT was a great idea, at least better than nothing. But it lacks in the information you can give.
I've been playing around with an information page idea. In the spot message you put a link to a webpage where there is a wealth of information on your trip - of course, you have to set it up ahead of time for each trip. SPOT can send emails/text to up to 10 people beyond the emergency folks.
Sample page - http://web.mac.com/rickrock/PlanetRickRock2007/SPOT.html

This is just a quick sample, but you can leave detailed coordinates, info on members so SAR has an idea of who they are looking for and their possible health concerns, what vehicles they may encounter, gear needed, etc.
Also, contacts to various agencies in the area, and instructions for friends and loved ones on who to contact (these are made up ones) so you don't have to depend on SPOT to reach the right authorities.
Any comments or additions you guyz would think could be valuable would be appreciated.
RR

[blueeyes]

I love my SPOT. Only problem is my mother would have no idea how to come find me. She and my sister are the only ones on my SPOT. Thanks for the idea Scout. At the very least they could she could point someone in the right direction if I have a web link that talks about the area I am camping or riding in. Maybe even a blog that gives a brief description of my plans. Not that I use my SPOT much but plan to next summer.

[Iceaxe]

The emergency contact info I leave always includes the name and phone number of a couple canyoneering friends that have the skill and knowledge to drag my ass out of most problems.

[Alex]

Great idea Scout, I usually tell my wife that info, but putting it on a website would be very nice.

Also, putting a password on that site and putting personal information on there might be a good idea. And then including the password in the SOS message. Include a couple of pictures of yourself, your vehicle. etc.

[Scott P]

It's really great to hear that they are OK! :2thumbs:

[bruce from bryce]

Glad everything worked out ok.

One thing to keep in mind when wanting to go into a canyon and help:

1. While we have some expertise in descending/ascending canyons and have lots of equipment, do we really have the expertise to safely extract someone who is injured from a canyon.
2. SAR personnel, no matter what their level of expertise, have built in safety measures to cover those contingencies that might occur during a rescue.
3. Is our expertise enough that we know how to set up a system that will handle passing a knot, resetting the rope, using a belay line that would safely protect the injured during a raise or lower should the main raise line break, or a myriad of other possible scenarios that could occur during this event? IMHO, honestly I think not.

I commend everyone who offered their services but let's step back and take a hard look at what we were saying. Yes, we could go into the canyon and get to the injured, bringing with us more equipment to make them comfortable but could we really effect that rescue?

bruce from bryce
P.S. I had 5 years of SAR training at Bryce and while I do remember some of it, the repetitive training is the key to getting it correct. I would not feel confident in being in charge of a rescue today!!

[Jaxx]

First let me start by saying my wife had some incorrect info given to her and that is why she was so mad at the Wayne county SAR guys. They are great guys and did great work but had a couple unexpected things turn, and not in their favor. They were level headed and it worked out in the end.

I was working on putting up drywall in my basement when I got a call from SPOT that the 911 button had been pushed and they were wondering if I was ok. I told them my dad had the spot. I gave them some basic info to give SAR like the name of the canyon. I knew it was Larry because my dad told me his itinerary and also the coors that the SPOT guy had from the 911 message. I called my mom and told her. That was tough. We decided to head down there ourselves and see what, if anything, we could do.

Here are the coords that the SPOT guy gave me for my dads location. They were right on. 38.28968, -110.40189

Chad (chabidiah) was there with me and he agreed to come with and help out. What a great brother-in-law. Thanks dude. My mom and sister also came down.

We threw all our stuff together and headed for the Roost. We hit some pretty nasty snow on highway 6 but made pretty good time. We left Lehi at about 6 pm. On the dirt road in we past a couple deputies on their way out. They said they went to the trail head and didn't see a car but saw a few foot prints. I told them the probably parked near the car shuttle at the end and we were going to camp the night. The deputy said they couldn't do anything in the dark and they would be back at about 6 am on Sunday.

We found their camp spot on the way to the car shuttle exit. We parked there and started organizing gear. Everything was just thrown in the back of my suburban so it took some time to get it organized. Chad and I both packed a bunch of warm clothes, water, first aid stuff, and we both carried a 200 ft rope. I would guess our packs weighed about 55-60 lbs. We also put on a few extra layers in case they really needed more clothes.

We started hiking around 12:30 am to walk the rim to where the coords from the spot were. We dropped into a drainage and yelled and whistled as we walked. We were both sweating about 10 min. in due to the heavy packs and all the warm clothes. At about 1:15 AM Chad heard a whistle. He made voice contact with my little brother. They were surprised that it was Chad and I and not SAR. They weren't even sure if the messages had made it out of the canyon for sure.

In total we had 88 911 messages on the SPOT account. Every time they pushed the button it sends 4 911 messages to the SPOT HQ.

We asked what happened and how they were. My dad said that he fell on a down climb and he thought his ACL was torn all the way through. He made a splint out of the braces in his internal fram backpack and some webbing but it wasn't holding together real well. They were above the last 2 rappels in a more open spot in the canyon. Just after the narrows let up. He had injured his knee on a down climb above the part of the canyon with the slanted wall. He guess it was mabey a mile that he had walked. They said they had a couple liters of water left and food to last the night. They were in an alcove and protected from any weather that may come up. they had built a fire and were comfortable.

After looking in the dark for a route down we decided we couldn't get anything to them and told them we were at their camp and SAR said they would be there in the morning. We left them in the canyon and went back to camp.

Here is a link showing where we hiked from their camp on the road to where we could talk to them in the canyon. Extremely approximate.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3358364

We got back to camp at about 2:15 AM and called Wayne county dispatch to give them an update. I let them know who I was and told them I was calling about the search in Larry canyon. I was informed that the search had been called of because they got a call from SPOT and were told they recieved an "OK" message. I told them the situation and asked to get the search going in the morning as planned. The dispatch said he would have the Sherriff contact me.

We spent a cold night in the car. I layed by the fire we had and stayed cozy. I woke up at 7 am and hadn't gotten contacted by anyone. I called dispatch and was informed that everyone was gearing up and they should be leaving Loa in a few minutes. ETA for SAR was 10 am.

Chad and I went back to check on them. I told them the mixup with SAR and they said they never pushed to OK button. They had actually pushed the 911 button on the SPOT a few times in the morning to make sure a message with the right coords got to SAR. They said they were comfortable but running low on water. We talked about Chad and I hiking up from the exit crack and having them rap to us and helping carry dad out. He said his leg hurt worse than the night before and he couldn't put any weight at all on it. We decided to have him stay put and let SAR decide what to do. We didn't want to have him rap deeper in the canyon and make it harder to hoist him out if that is what was decided.

SAR found us around 10 am like predicted and we pointed out where Dad and Kyle were on a map. We decided to drive cross country to the top of the canyon so as to not have to carry all the gear for a 1/2 mile from camp to their location. We got to the top of the canyon around 10:30.

The rappel team and a couple EMTs rapped into the canyon. There were 4 stages to rappel. A total of about 300 feet broken up. I think there were 7 total guys that rapped in. They were dressed in jackets and only carried equipment in their backpacks. They had drills, ropes and the usual rack you would expect. They also lowered down a basket that had a wheel on the bottom so they could lay dad in it and lower him down the raps then wheel him down the riverbed to the exit.

They decided they couldn't get him out that way and called for a helicopter. The first helicopter was delayed and then cancelled. They had to call a heli in that had a winch on it and so life flight was the only option. Life flight was late and got to the area around 4:30 and wanted to drop their own EMT in to assess. They wasted about 30 min doing that and then got the word to come get dad. They pulled him out of the canyon at about 5:15.

After dad was on top and safe they told the Sherriff, who was still up top with 2 other SAR guys that they couldn't get anyone else out of the canyon. We had pulled the ropes and packed them back to the top. I don't know if someone made the decision to just go on and hope that they made it out before dark or if it just didn't come up. The only option was for the SAR members and my brother to go out the bottom, in the dark.

Dad was flown to UVRMC and they had a couple specialists look at his knee. He had fractured a bone, not sure what one, and had a chip in there. He had also most likely torn his acl but they scheduled an appt. to come back on Tuesday for a more detailed diagnosis. He was home in a couple of hours.

The Sherriff asked Chad and I to stay and help since we had experience canyoneering and could mabey help get them out of the canyon. Chad and I were the only ones who knew anything about ropework that hadn't gone in the canyon. I am not sure why they sent all the rope guys in and not atleast one up top incase they needed to set up a haul system to get guys out. That is one reason they had to hike down. Chad and I could have set up a system but they didn't trust us.

We explained the exit was a crack somewhere in the cliff wall with 4th class scrambling and it would be difficult to find in the dark. That is when we learned than non of the SAR guys took any water, food, or headlamps into the canyon. They didn't expect to be hiking. They were thinking they were probably going to have to call in a heli anyway and that is how they would get out as well. One EMT had docker loafer type shoes on!

We grouped back up at the exit and went in to find the exit we have never seen before. I had been meaning to go down Larry canyon this year and it didn't work out. It would have made life alot easier if I had. The group of SAR guys stayed at the top and they sent Chad, me, and the Sherriffs son in to find the crack and lead the guys back up. We took a bunch of water, granola bars and every light we could find. We didn't pack any water, food, or gear for us because we wanted to stay light and fast. We suck at reading maps and that really slowed us down. We went way to far southish and after praying decided to walk the rim to the north more. By this time it was about 8 PM. We had been down searching for the exit crack for over an hour. We back tracked and got cliffed out. It was deep enough that we couldn't get our brightest light to shine on the canyon floor. It was really getting frustrating and disheartening being cliffed out over and over. We decided to head back up and start over and go back down but farther north.

We made it about half way back up the slickrock and saw headlamps in the drainage. We finally made radio contact with the guys in the canyon after about 2-3 hours of not being able to get them on the radio. We still hadn't found the exit so it was decided to bail on the exit crack and find the horse trail that was about a mile or two farther down canyon. The tired group continued down. Chad saw a possible spot to get down and followed it. He said he found what he thought was the exit crack. The guys in the bottom couldn't really communicate with them and Chad had run down to find the crack without the radio. The Sherriffs son and I had stayed higher. Chad tried to yell down to them to check it out and see what it looked like from the bottom. Chad yelled down and they said "Do you have a radio?" Chad said no and they wouldn't communicate with him after that. It was pretty hard to hear and they probably didn't feel like fussing with whatever Chad was trying to say. It was also decided that it would be easier to get up the horse trail because it was alot less steep, but it was longer.

This is when things really started going down hill on getting the guys out of the canyon. The Sherriff and the other two SAR guys went about 1/2 mile down the road to the trailhead for the horse trail. The two SAR guys started down while we came back up out of the canyon and met up with the Sherriff.

We started down the equestrian trail to try and catch up with the other SAR guys. The plan was to meet up and get them food and water and rotate carrying their packs and give them a break. We got a way down and we lost the trail. We tried locating it and backtracking for a bout 30 minutes and then decided to wait there and see if we could tell where they would come up and we could route find to them. We were way south of the Sherriff and he couldn't see around a mountain and that made some confusion. The group of SAR guys and my brother stopped and built a fire to warm up and rest. There were due south of the Sherriff's car. The SAR guys were a way south, down river, from that. The map showed that the horse trail zig-zagged almost exactly to where the big group was. He could get the group with my brother in it on the radio and let them know what the map showed and to look for the other SAR guys that were on the way down to find them. Then we spotted a fire way south from the 2 SAR guys and relayed that info up to the Sherriff. He told the big group to keep moving to meet up and get out.

The big group got to a small cliff and there was water below them. They had no way around due to the high cliff walls. They turned around and let the Sherriff know the situation.

The DPS helicopter pilot relayed a message to the Sherriff through radio that he could come down and use infrared to find and pickup the guys in the canyon. He said he was coming down the next day and he could just come down early if needed. The Sherriff asked him to come down. He was turned around by weather and landed in Spanish fork. He tried again and had to land in Nephi. It was a big letdown for the guys in the bottom.

We (Chad, me, and the Sherriff's son) were getting pretty cold and we couldn't have a fire for the three of us because it was blocking the other groups fire from the Sherriff's night vision. We decided to just come back up and decide if there was anything else we could do.
Here is our very approximate route. http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3358382

Mabey go back and find the exit crack again and go down and find the big group. The Sherriff told us that a storm was moving in that was supposed to dump 2-4 inches.

The guys at the bottom were in pretty bad shape. One had a sprained ankle. Another SAR guy didn't have his medicine and was in danger of suffering a seizure. If he had a seizure he would also dislocate his shoulder from the seizure. Things were going bad. It was really, really cold around 20 degrees. The guys were in no condition to stay in the canyon due to their clothing if it snowed. We also learned that they had been hauling down the rescue litter that had the wheel on it. I later asked my brother and he said they would take turns with it and they had to carry it alot because of the rough terrain in the canyon floor.

The Sherriff made the decision to call a heli from Page, AZ to come get the guys out. The awesome dudes at Classic air ambulance came in and lifted out the guys and gear out of the canyon. This was around 1 AM on 12/7/09. The two guys that were at the bottom made it back up about 10 min before the helicopter got there.

We made it to green rive and crashed at about 5 am. Then the drive home was in killer snowy conditions but I made it back in time for my wife's ultra sound so she was happy!

The SAR kindof got hosed by the first heli. He was so late and didn't want to wait to pull others out of the canyon. We pulled all the ropes and it didn't cross my mind to lower stuff to the guys at the bottom. Even if we had tried I don't know if we could have gotten it down. The last rap is in two stages with about a 30 ft ledge.
Little things added up and compounded on each other. The dark and cold made everything 10x worse. It all ended happy and the SAR guys in Wayne county are tough as nails. They did an outstanding job in my opinion. They did more as volunteers to help my family than anyone ever has, paid or otherwise. Nothing but respect and love for Wayne county SAR from me.

[Jaxx]

Do I get the longest post EVAR award?

PS My sis took a bunch of pics and I will post them when I get them.

[Cirrus2000]

Fascinating! Excellent report, Jaxx! Looking forward to pics.

Interesting how some seemingly innocuous decisions can really escalate a situation.

Glad everyone is safe! :2thumbs: :five:

[jman]

holy crap! that's quite the story, to say the least.. Now i'm just thinking, what would of happened if they didn't have a SPOT locator...scary! I mean, I'm sure someone would of continued on and hopefully out the next day, but, a major storm was coming in and would of made things a lot worse. I'm grateful things turned out ok.

But you, Jaxx, did the smartest thing, by giving your dad that Spot. And then next smartest decision was, obviously, going down there fully prepared.

I'm with Davis County SAR, and it's amazing that when people get lost and we get the call, sometimes the missing person's family can make the situation worse by themselves not planning ahead (like with gear/clothes/food/provisions/etc). So again, great job with staying sharp and planning ahead to the best of your ability.

Your family should be eternally grateful for your efforts and knowledge.

[hank moon]

Do I get the longest post EVAR award?

PS My sis took a bunch of pics and I will post them when I get them.

AWEsome writeup, Jaxx. What a fantastic epic! :2thumbs:

Keep us updated on the dad, eh? Hope that ACL's not completely severed.

[CarpeyBiggs]

Thanks for the comprehensive write-up Jaxx. What an EPIC couple of days. Glad it all ended well.

You owe your wife a vacation, by the way.

[Deeps]

Great read. Thanks for writing it up.


You owe your wife a vacation, by the way.

I agree. Maybe bring her to Freeze Fest? How pregnant is she?

[Brian in SLC]

Whew!

Epic write up. If you did that without much proofreading...wow. Even with, wow.

Glad everything turned out ok.

Kind of a lesson I think about is how important self rescue (if at all possible) is when you have that many folks out there at risk. Gives me the heebee jeebees to think about the airmed/lifeflight helicopters that have crashed in the last number of years around here too...

Crazy place to be with a storm bearing down and cold cold weather.

Whew.

Cheers,,

-Brian in SLC

[accadacca]

Yep, great read. Long? Yeah, but well worth the read. Glad you made it and looking forward to pix. :popcorn:

[Randi]

Do I get the longest post EVAR award?

PS My sis took a bunch of pics and I will post them when I get them.

Maybe one of the longest....certainly one of the most gripping!
I'd seen blurbs of this SAR rescue & wasn't paying attention to who it was. I'm very happy that everyone's OK, and that it all got worked out before worse weatehr came in. Great read Jaxx!!! Thanks for taking the time to write all this up!

[stefan]

wow, thanks for sharing the account, jaxx. gripping, indeed.
hope your father's knee is okay. i am sure your family is proud
to have a son like you.

[Alex]

That's very impressive. What a crazy read! I am sure it was a lot crazier being down there. Very happy everyone made it out ok. Hope your dad has a speedy recovery.

[Don]

Thanks for the write up. Really interesting story Jaxx.

[blueeyes]

WOW! Thanks for the write up. Glad everything turned out ok. WOW!

[oldno7]

Thanks for the detailed write up Nick, that must be why Chad said you would handle the writing chores. This should be a valuable lesson to the community at large about being prepared in a canyon for the "what if's". I think over all we are a very complacent group, with the unfounded expectation's that nothing can go wrong.
Incredibly glad it all worked out and everyone is back. Sounds like it could have gone from bad to worse very quickly. You and Chad should be commended on your effort's, I know it was family but you guy's did an outstanding job it sound's like. Also glad to hear of the effort's of Wayne County S&R. Sound's like they did a great job. This should be a learning experience for them, as well as all of us.
Kurt

[Win]

Hope your Dad is going to be OK. Thanks for a great write up, you did a terrific job all around. :2thumbs:

Win

[Bo_Beck]

It is a "limited information problem". If your tool is good at looking for lost hikers, every call-out looks like a lost hiker. By the time they figured out it was a technical rescue, it was WAY too late.

Maybe it is time to build our own SAR system. The Hanksville area is especially poor in SAR resources, largely because no one lives out there, including none of us. We are all 5-6 hours away. Makes it more difficult.

thoughts??
Tom :moses:

Not being even remotely close geographically, it would be difficult for me to respond efficiently to any SAR's in this region, but I would be willing to lend my hand at some basic level of instruction to anyone that might be interested? I'll be on my 14th year soon with ZNP SAR. Over the years my training has strictly dealt with technical rigging. 7 Rigging for Rescue courses (advanced) with Kirk Mauthner, 3 Ropes that Rescue courses with Reed Thorne, Swiftwater Rescue GCNP, Search Management using WINCASIE, involvement at ITRS, monthly 1 day training at ZNP for 13 years and annual 1 week intensive training for 12 years. Over the years I have been involved in some capacity with numerous technical SAR's. The nature of SAR's in Zion often becon the use of Kootenay Highlines with Reeves. I feel that I have a pretty good knowledge of Technical Rigging including assessment and systems. I also believe that I have the ability to convey this knowledge and to coach hands on application. Would love to have the opportunity to share some of this knowledge if anyone might be interested? It might be a bit overkill (as in gear intensive) as compared to basic and or advanced self rescue, but in the Larry Canyon incident, it may have come in handy, at least to remove the remaining SAR Personnel, and hikers?

[Deeps]

I would be interested Bo.

[Jaxx]

Couple of things I didn't make clear in my first post:

They did have 4 headlamps between the 7 or 8 of them. My dad had 2 and my brother had 2 with them. So they weren't completely in the dark.

They carried my dad's backpack down the whole way. That was super nice of them and above the call IMO.

They carried, lowered, pushed, and pulled a wheeled litter all the way down canyon. My guess is the thing weighed over 80 lbs. My brother said they all took turns carrying a corner of it.

I do owe my wife a vacation. She is due in Jan. so no Freezefest for her. I didn't proof read my original post so sorry about spelling errors and if anything doesn't make sense.

Thanks everyone for helping comfort my wife while she was worrying about me. She was told that I was trying to climb the last 2 raps to get to the SAR guys and they were both about 80 ft up. That was 100% inccorect, we were just trying to find the exit crack. She has settled down now that she got the story first hand.

And a special thanks for those who offered to come down.

I feel the Bogley love!

[devo_stevo]

We're just glad that everything turned out ok. Great story for the grandkids later in life.

Oh, and why is there an ad for laser hair removal showing up in this thread? I didn't read anything about hair stuck in the rappel device or anything. :ne_nau:

[Iceaxe]

Thanks for the write up Jaxx. :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

Jaxx.... For your geewiz file.... :haha:

Helicopters rescue stranded hikers
Desert News
Monday, Dec. 7, 2009

HANKSVILLE, Wayne County

[Brian in SLC]

I would be willing to lend my hand at some basic level of instruction to anyone that might be interested?

That's a great offer, Bo.

I think it'd be pretty interesting.

What would also be useful, is, to see a bit of "how the pro's do it" and compare that with how a scantily geared up standard canyoneer could effect a rescue. Especially your take on anchoring, rigging, etc.

A comparison of self rescue type techniques with pro rescue. Very useful. Might help to manage and understand risk a bit more.

Cheers!

-Brian in SLC

[chabidiah]

Bo- I would be very interested in learning some rigging and rescue techniques. It's funny how a situation like this is like a bi#@* slap to your ego. In the back of my mind I envisioned us going down there and pulling them out ourselves, "He-man style". But it becomes a realization that I need a lot more training and experience.

I think more than anything I was bummed that me and Jaxx didn't get to go in a and be evacuated by the heli.

[rawtree]

:hail2thechief: I have to make a comment about this situation. I am Nick's sister and it was also my Dad and Brother out there in the canyon.
I am so grateful to Nick and Chad for their knowledge on this subject and their utmost concern for being prepared and safe. These two are some really amazing men they kept calm and were so smart about everything they did. I am also so grateful to their wives and families and supporting them while they went out there in the dark and cold I know it took what seemed like a very like time and emotionally up and down but thank you for being patient.
If Chad and Nick were not there I know that the situation would have been alot more serious. The SAR was wonderful to our family and really helped us out alot.
If our Dad and younger brother had not kept their heads and were not as prepared as they were this may have been a recovery story instead of a rescue. My younger brother had to hike his way through the canyon in dark and he said the SAR guys that were with him were great.

I am new to this site and canyoneering but after watching Nick and Chad rescue my Dad and brother I have been inspired to learn all I can and prepare to go out next year. I will give nick some pics that I took of the canyon and rescue and have him post them.
THANK YOU AGAIN TO NICK AND CHAD FOR BEING OUR HEROES!!!!!! :hail2thechief:

[oldno7]

Bo
What a great offer, I too would be very interested in your offering. Surely no one here has your experience and knowledge on canyon rescue.

[Scott Card]

Jaxx, Well Done!!!! Nice write up and what an experience. Glad everyone is alive and I hope your dad will mend. I believe I know the exact spot where your dad got hurt. It is a slanty down climb where I often take a hand line. Glad you and your Chad are OK and it is great that you were there to help. :2thumbs:

[Scott Card]

Bo
What a great offer, I too would be very interested in your offering. Surely no one here has your experience and knowledge on canyon rescue.

X2

[Sombeech]

I am Nick's sister and it was also my Dad and Brother out there in the canyon.

Welcome to bogley. We're all glad it worked out, but obviously not as much as you. :2thumbs:

[SteveinTorrey]

As a new sign-up, I'm happy this all worked out. And also glad that the critique of Wayne Co SAR got corrected. A couple points I'd like to make here.

1) SPOTS rock! I don't even go trail running without one, because NO ONE down here does outdoor adventure regularly, especially in winter, and cell phones are useless. They're coming out with a new model around New Years with expanded message capabilities (www.findmespot.com). But you have to set up the website, your supporters, and your plan of action/communications avenue on the back end. For canyoneers, it'd probably be best to have a bunch of experienced folk on your "Help" e-mail list, and one on your "911" contacts. You also have to practice with them to learn their transmission capabilities, and how to deal with Google maps on the notifications. They tell you if you've connected to the sats, but you have to know how to read the unit lights. That's getting simpler with the new model. But hey, you can get a notification, and print a topo map with the exact incident location in mere minutes, IF you've practiced by sending a bunch of test OK messages. Personally, I consider these things almost mandatory for serious adrenalin adventurers now (Xmas hint). Everybody makes a mistake eventually, or runs across that one loose hold. Expertise is no guarantee; it just means you walk closer to the edge.

2) Wayne Co. Sheriff Kurt Taylor is smart, pleasant and dedicated. While the SAR here is, like all of them, volunteer, and not schooled in technical rescue, this rescue came off pretty damn quick. You can't expect to go into remote rural areas anywhere and get a pro high-angle rescue team. Nor is it the responsibility of small counties with limited tax base to provide such skyhooks. The deputies (who vary as to lights-on quotient) consider canyoneering unusual because it is unusual. I'd recommend that serious canyoneers have their own de facto SAR teams of friends at the ready, and programmed into their SPOT "Help" e-mail list. (Tip: For rescue, go way heavy on the anchoring/bolting/pulley gear.) "911" is more for serious medical emergencies where advanced life support is needed stat. A chopper from Page costs $5,000 minimum, for a half-day. If you don't pay it, the county probably does. It's unbelievable how much time and money San Juan, Carbon and Wayne Counties pay out in SAR every year.

3) Every autumn canyoneers and hikers in these canyons get caught by short hours and overambitious plans. That's not what happened here, at least in the initial incident, but it played into the rescue later on. It's dead dark at 5:30 p.m., and doesn't get light until 7. It's freeeeeezing for 15 hours a day. If you can't get to firewood, or don't have a sleeping bag, lotsa luck. Nuff said.

4) Epics are a lot more common than we in the adventure community would like to believe. A lot of these incidents work out, and never even make it to message boards, much less the newspapers. I hear local grapevine tales of this stuff every month.

5) This isn't Moab, or Springdale, or even Escalante. Much of this state, especially in winter, is the back side of the moon. When the weather's bad, 4WDs can't get to the rims and helis don't move. Even honed rescue teams like those in the Tetons or RMNP won't set out in darkness, or if a storm's raging. You gotta be ready to hang tight for days.

6) Make sure relatives and spouses are in on your plan, your safety capabilities, and know how to handle late returns, beacon notifications, map printing, relaying coordinates, web pages, etc. They go through hell, and worse if the accident's fatal. The less they know how to help, the worse the fear, anger, or angst.You should school them in how to handle e-mail alerts, and have a list of numbers for them to call, communications for them to relay, and questions for them to ask. SAR folks may need prompting, and info like blood type, pre-existing conditions, etc., is critical for EMTs and SAR folks to know when they head in after you.

7) Set up a custom First Aid kit with bandages, anti-clotting pads, splint stuff, painkillers and anti-inflammatories. Trauma stuff, not band-aids. Get prescriptions if you need them. Then carry the thing. They're not that heavy.

8) Anytime you split up a group, even a SAR group, regrouping is a nightmare. Particularly where radios don't work so hot. You need to have a re-group plan before you separate.

Last but not least, the modern outdoor adventure community is often too blase' about our activities. I hear 'it's easy,' or 'lots of people do it', or 'climbing/kayaking/canyoneering isn't that dangerous', all the time. It's like avalanche caution in the Wasatch...hey, they're skiin' it, let's rock! But I'm on newsfeed for SAR incidents, and believe me, it's a bloodbath out there every weekend. People forget, from decade to decade, how many incidents have happened on a particular chute, peak, or canyon. And in the last few years, canyoneers have been exceedingly well-represented in the SAR stats.

Just sayin.'
Hey, it could be me next week. Or you.

Cheers all.
Stay safe.
sh

[Cirrus2000]

As a new sign-up, I'm happy this all worked out. And also glad that the critique of Wayne Co SAR got corrected. A couple points I'd like to make here.

Wow, excellent introductory post, Steve! Welcome to Bogley! :2thumbs:

Now I'm going to print your post. It was that good, and offers tons of points to go over with family and friends. Thanks so much.

[Brian in SLC]

Wow, excellent introductory post, Steve! Welcome to Bogley!

Should expect no less...!

Ahhh...how the Sports Guide has changed...

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

[Sombeech]

As a new sign-up

Welcome to bogley. Thanks for your advice. :2thumbs:

[Don]

Just sayin.'
Hey, it could be me next week. Or you.

Cheers all.
Stay safe.
sh

Good advice. Welcome to Bogely. Feel free to post the interesting stuff you hear through your grapevine. Id rather learn from someone else's mistake (or random accident) than my own.

[hank moon]

Cheers all.
Stay safe.
sh

Welcome, Steve - great post! Up for some winter canyons?

[Brian in SLC]

Welcome, Steve - great post! Up for some winter canyons?

Interesting to hear what he thinks of the SPOT, too. Since he has some, ahem, experience with one...

Cheers!

-Brian in SLC

[CarpeyBiggs]

hey steve, you know we want to hear about denali...

:popcorn:

[ratagonia]

THANK YOU AGAIN TO NICK AND CHAD FOR BEING OUR HEROES!!!!!! :hail2thechief:

:2thumbs:

[ratagonia]

Cheers all.
Stay safe.
sh

Welcome, Steve - great post! Up for some winter canyons?

Nice to have you on the board, Steve. You speak good.

Tom :moses:

[Chungy22]

To everyone that was involved. This is a pretty long story and I haven't quite finished it, but you can read what I've got so far. I am going to finish the rest tomorrow at work and post it. By the way I am Nick's (jaxx's) little bro and the hiker that was not injured in this whole ordeal. Have fun reading.

Larry Canyon 2009

We decided to go on one last canyoneering trip before the snow came in and would not allow us to backpack in the beautiful southern Utah slot canyons. My Dad and I were very excited about this weekend. We were going to first go to camp in between the Larry Canyon entrance and exit so that we could start from there in the morning.

The voyage down was pretty uneventful. We left Orem around 4 PM on Friday December 4th. We went to scout where the canyons were that we were going to hike. We were going to hike Larry Canyon on Saturday and then the shorter Alcatraz Canyon on Sunday before we left. We drove to the first rappel in Alcatraz and it is supposed to be 165

[blueeyes]

Your Dad hiking over uneven ground and what not on a torn ACL makes me nauseous. So glad you are both ok. Nice write up can't wait to read the rest.

[Alex]

This is totally impressive, thanks so much for sharing your experience with us. How is your dad doing?

[Cirrus2000]

This is totally impressive, thanks so much for sharing your experience with us. How is your dad doing?
Yes, an update would be good.

Warning: If he sits down in a recliner, and refuses to get up, make him go to the hospital!!!

http://www.ksn.com/content/news/also/story/Man-dies-after-sitting-in-recliner-for-eight/IYHyG3psmkWk6UgSGpq9Ww.cspx

[Scott Card]

Thanks for posting and nice write up. How is your dad? Waiting for part 2 :popcorn:

[Chungy22]

We aren't 100% sure exactly what is wrong with my Dad, but we know that he at least destroyed his MCL and most likely his ACL as well. He also has a compression fracture that goes all the way accross his tibia, which I think is what caused most of the swelling and pain, but I am no doctor. He went back to work yesterday because he had some deadlines that needed to be met and seemed alright doing so. He will soon be going into surgery to fix it, but I am not sure when. I will keep you updated.

[Dean]

An amazing thread and so many lessons to all of us. Great write ups and comments and I'm now going to look at the Spot device a little differently.

[Alex]

I've heard there is going to be a Trade-in program soon that will allow you to trade your old unit for the new one. I keep calling them and they keep telling me it's "next" month. So keep your eyes open. I've heard the newer units have better connection and easier light signals so you know when the signal goes through. It's also smaller than the old unit.

[Chungy22]

Here is the last of the story. I hope you guys enjoy it. There are some misspellings and errors so don't hate me. This is a different point of view as well from Jaxx and Cabidiah. Enjoy:



They only brought down their canyoneering and rappelling gear, and some medical stuff they had. Another thing they brought was an emergency litter that was just in case they had to carry my Dad out of the canyon in it. They ended up not needing it, but then we didn

[blueeyes]

I am not going to lie to you... I cried. Good story. Thanks for sharing.

[Alex]

You should submit the story to SPOT, they would eat it up and publish it. For all the SPOT naysayers this is a great example.

Did you consider your options if SPOT didn't go through? Also, been through this how would you redo your emergency pack, what would you bring with you in the future? Anything else you learned from this experience that you'd care to share with us that you would do different in the future?

Thanks,
Alex

[Chungy22]

I will have to submit this to SPOT. That is a great idea!
As for if we considered what would happen if the SPOT didn't go through. We definately did. We actually thought that we were going to have to try and get out on our own before we saw Jaxx and Chabidiah! The options that we were thinking through were: one: that we would try to get out early in the morning trying to send SPOTs all the way down. two and most likely: My Dad would try to get as far as he could and then I would go the rest of the way and have to get back to camp and call someone with my Dad's cell phone and then try to get something to him before it got too dark and cold again. I didn't really want to split up though so then I thought mabye I would have to carry\drag him part of the way. That would have just been hell, but you never know what you might have to do.
As for something else that I would have carried in my pack if I could do it again. More water never hurts. It was a little difficult only having limited water and we didn't think that we would drink that much because it was so cold down there, but we drank a bit more than I would have ever thought. Another thing I would have brought my emergency sleeping bag. It was at home on my desk and I just didn't think to put it in my bag with me. Another thing would have been a couple of lighters. We only had one and we are very very lucky that it worked. I do know how to start a fire with a yukka stick, but that is very difficult and never garaunteed to work. Other than that we were pretty prepared. That is just how my Dad raised us. Ask Jaxx. He is most of the time a little over perapred. Let me know what else you think I could have brought with me. That would be interesting to know.

[Brian in SLC]

Wow. Fantastic read.

Really glad it all turned out so well.

Spot. Pretty interesting. I hear tell they take the "search" out of "search and rescue". Sounds like it worked. Neat.

Great story. Whew!

-Brian in SLC

[Don]

Great read. What a story! I'm no spot-naysayer but I really like the idea of getting away and relying on only the things and people you brought with you. Not going to run out and buy a spot after reading this but I might rethink my attitude...
Glad everyone is ok. Thanks for posting.

[Iceaxe]

Thanks for posting the first hand account. It was a good read... :2thumbs:

[Alex]

Don, I can understand your perspective. I usually carry my SPOT with me for 90% to contact my family that I am ok and 10% for SAR. I see it as an insurance in case everything else fails.

Chungy, I learn from others as I go. I used to carry an emergency blanket, but IceAxe showed me an emergency sleeping bag, which is a much better idea. So I started putting those into my pack. I also bring with me Hand Warmers, those are great when someone is close to hypothermia. Put it on critical body spots (groin, arm pits, neck) to keep the blood flow.

I also like to bring an emergency fire starter, they are the pain to get working, but they are water proof and will work great if you know how to use them. We managed to get the fire going last year on one of the rafting trips with it. Lighter of course works best.

Water purifying tablets are a must in an emergency kit. Even though it might not clean the water completely, it will allow you not to go dehydrated.

[Iceaxe]

There is the start of a good thread on what emergency gear to carry here:

Possibles Bag
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19512

One thing I know for certain... after your first forced bivy everyone adds a couple extra items to their possibles bag.

:cool2:

[CarpeyBiggs]

Wow. Helluva story. Super glad you all got out alright, as it seems to me you were pretty fortunate. Everything seemed to be pointing towards "more epic than it needed to be."

Obviously, first and foremost, glad you are safe. Secondly, begs the question, what could you (or we) do differently next time?

This is probably a pretty good eye opening experience, especially considering that we are getting reliable firsthand information. Let us know Nick, Chad, Jaxx, if you are comfortable with us playing some hypotheticals with the scenario.

[oldno7]

Great write up again, these outcomes are more better than the alternative..

[accadacca]

Great story. Thanks for posting it up. It is just nutz what you had to go through. Glad you made it out of there. :2thumbs:

[Alex]

So now that the story is told.... where are the pictures? :ne_nau:

You know the rules of Bogley, if you don't have pics, you weren't there.... just saying... :naughty:

[Pelon1]

Great TR, glad everything turned out as good as it did. Definitely could have been alot worse...

[Sombeech]

You know the rules of Bogley, if you don't have pics, you weren't there.... just saying... :naughty:

I'm starting to doubt this whole thing ever happened

[Don]

One thing I know for certain... after your first forced bivy everyone adds a couple extra items to their possibles bag.

:cool2:

:nod:

[Chungy22]

Everyone who was involved in my family is going to get together this Sunday and share their view points and gather all the pics together. I will for sure put some on here when we are done with that. Sorry you don't have any yet. None of the pics are on my camera.

[Iceaxe]

http://bogley.com/forum/files/needpics.gif

We are a tough crowd to please.....

:lol8:

[Iceaxe]

The Canyonland's Maze Ranger station is located only a couple of miles from Larry Canyon. The National Park rangers will respond to SAR in the area and they are much better equiped and trained to handle this type of rescue.

And just a heads up..... the Han's Flat Ranger Station is not fully staffed in the winter off-season months.

If what I hear is correct they were contacted in regards to this rescue in Larry Canyon and had no one available that weekend.

:popcorn:

[trackrunner]

Anyone see Dean Kurtz critique over on the canyons egroup. For those of you that don't know him, Dean is a SAR vetern of many years in canyon country "most of that in the position of Vice-Commander, Training Officer, and Rope Rescue Sgt."

link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canyons/message/54446

For those that are not members, Snippits from Dean's post: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dean wrote how he likes to know who and why is going into a canyon during a rescue. As a SAR commander he wants to know them and their skill set so the situation doesn

[trackrunner]

Those involved I have to ask now that time has passed what do you think you would have done better, learn beforehand, practice, tech training, self rescue training, etc.

I

[TNTRebel]

Ok, I just can't remain quite any longer!!! I usually rely on Jaxx (my son, and one of my heroes) to post since he is so eloquent. Yeh, I

[TNTRebel]

OK, since some have asked, here is a list of my injuries:

1) I completely tore my ACL (ligament in the middle of big leg bones that holds them in place and together, it is in the middle of the joint)
2) Partial tear of my MCL (ligament that holds the larger bones together on the inside of the knee, outside of the joint)
3) Tore one of my meniscus cartilages (two pads which separate the large bones)
4) Suffered a Tibial plateau fracture (top of the tibia / shin bone). The fractured bone didn

[TNTRebel]

Some have criticized the Wayne County Search and Rescue, so let me provide my viewpoint. They were awesome during my rescue and I was very impressed with them. They made some decisions that I didn

[trackrunner]

But, it always pisses me off when the injured never tell their story, so the rest of us can hear it first hand and so we can learn from the experience.

I acctually have to commend both you and your family for sharing. Most people wouldn't have the balls to post their epic in the first place let alone be ready for a constructive critisism (and let's be honest it always happens to have rude people commenting too).

So thanks for at least sharing, I've learned many stuff so far. And best wishes for a speady recovery.


:thumb:

:popcorn:

[TNTRebel]

Maybe this belongs in the new blog started by ratagonia, but I'll post here first...What gear did we carry and what was the gear that saved us, and what did we

[moab mark]

But, it always pisses me off when the injured never tell their story, so the rest of us can hear it first hand and so we can learn from the experience.

I acctually have to commend both you and your family for sharing. Most people wouldn't have the balls to post their epic in the first place let alone be ready for a constructive critisism (and let's be honest it happes always down right rude people commenting).

So thanks for at least sharing, I've learned many stuff so far. And best wishes for a speady recovery.


:thumb:

X 2
Thanks
Mark

:popcorn:

[accadacca]

The surgeon says the ego cannot be repaired ;-)
Hey man it can happen to the best of us and NOBODY is immune from it. You'll get over it and learn from the mistakes and misfortunes. Glad you all made it out of there, it was a gripping read for sure. Thanks again for participating in the dialog on Bogley. Many helpful discussions are happening and teaching others. Great stuff. :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

I just want to say thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.... It's been an enjoyable read and I have learned a few things...

Thanks.
:2thumbs:

[oldno7]

First I'd like to say thanks to those who were directly involved and have given their accounts of the incident in Larry. Knowing the dart throwing/Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on, this was commendable.
My takeaway from this isn't very dramatic. From what I have read, these guys were fairly well prepared and that probably was a huge factor. The simple fact that they are all back and safe, has to be some kind of testament to their preparation.
I see one accident and one mistake:
The "accident" was Nick's dad slipping. HE SLIPPED!! How many can say they haven't been in a downclimb,elevator,sustained high stem and haven't thought--damn--if I SLIP here I could really be screwed. I'm going to say 100% of people who spend any amount of time in a canyon have thought similar.
The "mistake" was starting a canyon late in the morning in the Winter with an impending storm. No time was allowed for a accident or even a slip.
I say--he who lives in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
the lesson's have been learned and hopefully the community at large has benefited from these guy's predicament and overall successful outcome.
Since I only know Chad and Nick--I'll say kudos to the Chad and Nick family on a adventure that had the makings of disaster, but ended up with a great outcome. I'd have to say a successful rescue all around.

Merry Christmas

[moab mark]

Something that caught my eye was that their spot was able to send a signal out of a deep? canyon. I carry a SAT phone and unless you are out in the open you ain't talkin to nobody. The spot has it downsides but it did the job.

Mark

[nonot]

Let me preface this by saying I have neither done Larry Canyon, nor know the Wayne SAR group, but I think there's more to it than old man #7 has stated. I've also seen Tom's posts and can't figure out what's going on or which thread this belongs in, but would like to respond.

First, I would word it differently than oldno7: he slipped because he was trying to downclimb a mandatory rappel.

Still...doing a canyon for the first time, can't find too much fault with the accident. Ask for a belay before you need it. He figured out he needed the belay too late. Fault of the accident is the victim's. I may make the same mistake one day...hope I survive.

The rest is not exciting...but you could do some analysis on some additional mistakes and positives:

Kudos on having told others of their plan and bringing a spot. I do neither.

Kudos on keeping calm under pressure and staying warm during the night. I've observed people falling apart, it's not as trivial as one would think.

Doing sketchy downclimbs in a canyon you don't know that has a rap station setup without at least setting up a belay? Cause of accident due to poor judgment, canyoneering isn't about impressing others and earning style points. Of course, I get called safety nazi and insulted quite often for requiring helmets in my group and inspecting every anchor. Most experience goes last, plus it's last man at risk, not first

SAR not knowing how to extract themselves from the canyon after the rescue? Poor decision making, needs improvement. (But thanks to all those SAR volunteers that risk their own life, limb, and pay the costs for helping those they don't know.)

Delays in getting a SAR chopper to the scene...been there done that, noone's fault, somewhat typical in my experience when searching for lost persons or condition of the victim is known to be non life-threatening. It's called triage and management of resources.

Noone else knowing how to use the GPS to find the exit route....needs improvement. I'm guilty of the same in not training my companions.

So overall score: mine would be lower than theirs.

I would like to thanks the folks for posting their stories, I think the community will benefit from learning from this situation.


My takeaway from this isn't very dramatic. From what I have read, these guys were fairly well prepared and that probably was a huge factor. [...] I see one accident and one mistake:
The "accident" was Nick's dad slipping. HE SLIPPED!! How many can say they haven't been in a downclimb,elevator,sustained high stem and haven't thought--damn--if I SLIP here I could really be screwed. I'm going to say 100% of people who spend any amount of time in a canyon have thought similar.
The "mistake" was starting a canyon late in the morning in the Winter with an impending storm. No time was allowed for a accident or even a slip.

[ratagonia]

Something that caught my eye was that their spot was able to send a signal out of a deep? canyon. I carry a SAT phone and unless you are out in the open you ain't talkin to nobody. The spot has it downsides but it did the job.

Mark

They got to the end of the slot, where they would have a view of perhaps 50% of the sky. Basically, on the side of a cliff. Certainly, an excellent effort getting to the end of the slot. Otherwise, coulda been nasty!

Tom

[moab mark]

Those of you with spots, what kind of success are you having sending messages to family in deep canyons? Spot is on the globalstar network which is the same as my phone.

Mark

[CarpeyBiggs]

in slot canyons? not a chance. something like the narrows would be very spotty, too.

to be honest, they aren't nearly as good at getting sats as my gps is. but they send signals frequently, and you only need to get one out... so? i dunno...

[TNTRebel]

OK, we'll see if these photos work...
Man, the 1st try was large, I'm going to try to resize smaller. Sorry I'm new at posting on Bogley, please be patient with me :twisted:

[moab mark]

Thanks for posting those pics.

If I could ask one question, how open was the canyon when you pushed spot?


Thanks

Mark

[TNTRebel]

We were at the top of the second to last optional rappel for those who know the canyon. I am guessing it was maybe 75-100 yards wide at the bottom of the canyon, about 100 yards further south/west the canyon opened up significantly, maybe 300 yards wide. The canyon was about 400-500 feet deep where we were located, and opened slightly more on top than bottom; we had an open view of the south/west ski.

I have found good coverage with the spot on trips, but then again, I press the

[CarpeyBiggs]

[quote=TNTRebel]We were at the top of the second to last optional rappel for those who know the canyon. I am guessing it was maybe 75-100 yards wide at the bottom of the canyon, about 100 yards further south/west the canyon opened up significantly, maybe 300 yards wide. The canyon was about 400-500 feet deep where we were located, and opened slightly more on top than bottom; we had an open view of the south/west ski.

I have found good coverage with the spot on trips, but then again, I press the

[TNTRebel]

I hope I don

[moab mark]

[quote=TNTRebel]We were at the top of the second to last optional rappel for those who know the canyon. I am guessing it was maybe 75-100 yards wide at the bottom of the canyon, about 100 yards further south/west the canyon opened up significantly, maybe 300 yards wide. The canyon was about 400-500 feet deep where we were located, and opened slightly more on top than bottom; we had an open view of the south/west ski.

I have found good coverage with the spot on trips, but then again, I press the

[TNTRebel]

Canyon Girl, if you are still awake, give me a call (before 1:00 AM).

name xxx-xxx-xxxx I'm thinking of heading out there - looking for a few more details.

The upclimb is not AT the last two raps, it is off to the side. Not too hard, but would be difficult to find a reasonable line in the dark.

Tom

Ok, I

[AJ]

Not being even remotely close geographically, it would be difficult for me to respond efficiently to any SAR's in this region, but I would be willing to lend my hand at some basic level of instruction to anyone that might be interested? I'll be on my 14th year soon with ZNP SAR. Over the years my training has strictly dealt with technical rigging. 7 Rigging for Rescue courses (advanced) with Kirk Mauthner, 3 Ropes that Rescue courses with Reed Thorne, Swiftwater Rescue GCNP, Search Management using WINCASIE, involvement at ITRS, monthly 1 day training at ZNP for 13 years and annual 1 week intensive training for 12 years. Over the years I have been involved in some capacity with numerous technical SAR's. The nature of SAR's in Zion often becon the use of Kootenay Highlines with Reeves. I feel that I have a pretty good knowledge of Technical Rigging including assessment and systems. I also believe that I have the ability to convey this knowledge and to coach hands on application. Would love to have the opportunity to share some of this knowledge if anyone might be interested? It might be a bit overkill (as in gear intensive) as compared to basic and or advanced self rescue, but in the Larry Canyon incident, it may have come in handy, at least to remove the remaining SAR Personnel, and hikers?

Bo, I would love to go over your vertical / rescue info. Thanks for the offer; you can never know enough!

Take care,
A.J.

[moab mark]

I just remembered getting a note with my bill about texting on my phone. I wonder if a text would go out like spot does? One way transmission. I do not currently pay for texting but ill give them a call.

Mark

[AJ]

Very glad to hear that everything worked out in the end. Hope your recovery is speedy!

Thanks for posting your stories and views; that can be a difficult thing to do. You said you were feeling bad about it. I think it could have happened to many of us. Most canyoneers have been in a nasty spot or two; you were just unlucky to have it bite you while you were there. Glad it didn't turn out more serious (like falling over that second overhang; and because you had your helmet on...)


Take care,
A.J.

[TNTRebel]

without trying to sound too calloused, it's really a shame they had to airlift everyone else out after they got you. literally walk around those raps and everyone should've been able to get out without much effort. no need for any ropes at that point. but i guess knowing where the crack exit is would be the determining factor. not hard in the daylight.

timeline again? you got airlifted out at sunset on saturday. the rest got airlifted out on early monday morning? late sunday night? is that right?

Not calloused at all. We all thought it should be doable (even in the dark). Turned out it was frustrating for everyone to try to locate the exit in the dark with weak LED headlamps and no one had ever been in the canyon. Virtually impossible to see anything. Jaxx and Chabidiah think they were close after seeing the google image we all looked at last night, but it was a crap shoot having never been there, and everything looked like it dropped off in a cliff. Maybe I

[Chungy22]

I would like to thank everyone for their posts! I have learned more than probably anyone else. I am failry new at canyoneering. I have only been off my mission for about a year now and have been doing it ever since, some of the critizism was hard for me to take eventhough I wasn't really at fault. I think it was difficult because if you knew TNTRebel you would know how he is normally so prepared and this normally wouldn't have happened. I guess when you make one mistake it will always come back to bite you in the butt. I am very proud of my Dad for taking all the crap that he has. It was a mistake and be sure that neither he nor I is ever going to make one like that again. That was a really fun canyon though and I would highly suggest it to others.

BIG shout out to anyone who is on SAR! That takes a lot to give up your weekend to come and save some people that made mistakes in the canyon!

[Chungy22]

Oh........ one more thing! Jaxx and Chabidiah as well as their families are heroes to me as well!! Thanks

[accadacca]

Thanks for the pictures and additional dialog. It's quite entertaining. :popcorn: Welcome to Bogley, hope you guys stick around. :2thumbs:

[Deathcricket]

What a great read! I'm really impressed with your guys candor and epic tale of survival. And of course having a happy ending never hurts! This is a great lesson for all of us, so thank you for sharing. I know it was probably hard to do so, but it's most appreciated. I can't speak for everyone, but I can totally see how it happened and even can see myself doing the exact same thing.

I myself am always kinda pushing with downclimbs. I find it a lot of fun. The last trip I even took a couple more risks than I should have now that I think about it. I was handlining (no harness) down a 20 foot skinny crack, walked backwards off. but then tripped right as I was going over! Then of course my foot got caught as I was sliding down and inverted me more than I wished. I had extra padded leather gloves so it wasn't too bad, but if I had let go (for whatever reason) it would have been nasty. It's just not worth it I guess. So next time, even though it's only 20 feet, I'll probably bust out my harness too, just because.

:five:

Oh and that reminds me.. Jaxx I need your phone number for when I get stuck in a canyon please. I'm just goin to have my spot call you and Chab, hehe. You guys totally rock! You can just drop the pack and carry me out, we weigh about the same I think. *Still not gonna stop teasing you about that.*

:lol8:

On a side note. Am I the only one getting flamed via PMs by some noob named Rescue1? I really wish I had better trolling skills to get him riled up better. I should have consulted my buddy James before responding. Next time!

[Iceaxe]

Thanks for taking the time to post your experience. I hope I've learned a thing or two from reading your account.... but if nothing else it's been a fun read to follow along on this epic from start to finish.... it was kinda like being there without actually getting cold and thirsty.

:2thumbs:

[Cirrus2000]

I was handlining (no harness) down a 20 foot skinny crack, walked backwards off. but then tripped right as I was going over! Then of course my foot got caught as I was sliding down and inverted me more than I wished. I had extra padded leather gloves so it wasn't too bad, but if I had let go (for whatever reason) it would have been nasty. It's just not worth it I guess.

It looked a little (OK, a lot) scary, but holy Hannah, was it funny! :five:

[Deathcricket]

It looked a little (OK, a lot) scary, but holy Hannah, was it funny! :five:

:roflol:

If you can't trip in front of your friends and scare them, what good are they for? :P

[SteveinTorrey]

hey steve, you know we want to hear about denali...

:popcorn:

OK, seems fair.

Actually, not much happened on Denali with my SPOT 'alert'.

Apparently the "help" button got pushed while my friend and I were digging a cache at Washburn's Thumb, 16,500 feet. It was a beautiful day. No problems at all. One of the rescue rangers was skiing up the bowl above 14 camp when we were almost back to the tent. He asked "Did you know you triggered a beacon alert?"

Answer: No.

Basically, when the alert went off, the NPS in Talkeetna checked our applications (I'd been up the peak before and my partner had climbed Everest twice). Then they called up to 14. The rangers there walked over to the climber camp and asked if anyone had seen us. Other climbers on the mountain said 'Yeah,' and that we had no problems at last known contact about 2 hours earlier. The climbing rangers went into wait and see mode. We returned, and everybody stood down. To check it all, we sent another "help" alert while standing at 14 with the rangers, then rescinded it (you hold the same button down 5 seconds until the lights flash red). Sat connection only took 30 seconds. The button on my early proto unit, however, was pretty easy to push. The new units have safety caps over 'help' and '911.'

My editor, Jon Dorn, who is on my alert list when I'm on "assignment" profile, blogged about it in real time. Hence the wide reach of the mishap.

But on the climber end, there was nada.

Ironically, Buck Tilton, another Backpacker contributor who spent 5 summers as a climbing ranger, was camped down on the Kahiltna with semi-retired head climbing ranger Daryl Miller, drinking Scotch, listening to the radio and laughing at us.

So much for empathy.

[SteveinTorrey]

Those of you with spots, what kind of success are you having sending messages to family in deep canyons? Spot is on the globalstar network which is the same as my phone.

Mark

Actually, I've sent plenty of test messages with less than a 20% view of the sky. You do, however, have to let them sit stationary, face up, and wait. It can take quite a while to connect with a low earth orbital satellite flying overhead. But you usually get a transmit window. In a super-deep canyon, probably hopeless. Nothing will work there. Ditto with PLBs. Sorry.

SPOTs work off a different transmitter in the Globalstar satellites than the sat phones do. The two-way sat phone transmitters (L Band, if I remember correctly) got fried by cosmic rays earlier than expected. They one-way data transmitters (like those used for remote river flow gauges) have held up well.

[SteveinTorrey]

I just remembered getting a note with my bill about texting on my phone. I wonder if a text would go out like spot does? One way transmission. I do not currently pay for texting but ill give them a call.

Mark

SMS text messages go out in 'burst' style similar to a SPOT, but the angle to cell towers is usually lower, so there's more terrain interference, which is always the limiting factor. But text messages are far easier to connect than an audio dialogue. Definitely worth having text capability if you're counting on a cell for emergency notification. There's a Japanese company that'll come out with a combo mobile/sat phone in 2010. The plan's supposed to be cheap.

Sorry don't know the company. Also sorry for the slow replies to queries. Work load doesn't let me get on message boards often.

[SteveinTorrey]

Cheers all.
Stay safe.
sh

Welcome, Steve - great post! Up for some winter canyons?

Yo Hank.
Long time man. Yeah, I'd be up for winter canyons. However, I've got to get my new stainless steel hip first, and get the rehab done.

I head for a surgeon's appointment in Boise tomorrow (Dec 16th). surgery's scheduled for late Feb, hopefully I can move that up. Right now, stemming just ain't gonna happen.

Mortality sucks, and calcium is soooo old school.

After that though, you're on. Not many adrena-holics in Wayneco. Always up for a visit.

[Scott Card]

Cheers all.
Stay safe.
sh

Welcome, Steve - great post! Up for some winter canyons?

Yo Hank.
Long time man. Yeah, I'd be up for winter canyons. However, I've got to get my new stainless steel hip first, and get the rehab done.

I head for a surgeon's appointment in Boise tomorrow (Dec 16th). surgery's scheduled for late Feb, hopefully I can move that up. Right now, stemming just ain't gonna happen.

Mortality sucks, and calcium is soooo old school.

After that though, you're on. Not many adrena-holics in Wayneco. Always up for a visit. Don't know you Steve but good luck and I hope all goes well with the surgery! :2thumbs:

[TNTRebel]

Thanks for taking the time to post your experience. I hope I've learned a thing or two from reading your account.... but if nothing else it's been a fun read to follow along on this epic from start to finish.... it was kinda like being there without actually getting cold and thirsty.

:2thumbs:

Thanks for the kind words from ya'll. I hope to meet some of you on some of your trips. Maybe I'll join ya'll for your next nob fest (sic) :-)

[TNTRebel]

OK, small world, when I was getting prepared for surgery, the nurse and I started to talk about what happened, and I said I wish I had summoned some of the bogley folks that knew the canyon to help my son get out. I mentioned Tom Jones and

[Scott Card]

[quote=TNTRebel]OK, small world, when I was getting prepared for surgery, the nurse and I started to talk about what happened, and I said I wish I had summoned some of the bogley folks that knew the canyon to help my son get out. I mentioned Tom Jones and

[TNTRebel]

Oh, forgot to mention. I "lent" my 9.2mm Double Sheath Canyon Pro rope to the SAR folks to get them down the last rap, so they could rig up the last two raps while there was still daylight (one with their rope, and one with mine), and I guess mine got hung up on the last

[TNTRebel]

Don't know how I double posted, sorry, just deleted the second copy :ne_nau:

[TNTRebel]

OH, one thing I keep forgetting to mention, but maybe the most important information about doing Larry Canyon (or Alcatraz for that matter). I was looking for a place to camp on the

[Iceaxe]

Not that it will help those without a route description, but I just added the following warning to Climb-Utah.com in regards to the road in question.

"If driving this road in the dark be careful not to drive off the cliff into Alcatraz Canyon, it can be a little confusing to some in the dead of night."

Thanks for the heads up.... I've never driven this road at night, but I can see where it could be a problem. In the day light it's no big deal.

.

[TNTRebel]

We'll I'm back in the saddle after my epic in Larry Canyon last year and ACL surgery... just finished my first technical canyon since the ordeal. We took a small group of young men through Birch Hollow, down Orderville Canyon and out the narrows (12 or so miles I understand) and my knee held up with my new Breg Fusion XT brace. Walking on the greased bowling balls in the narrows seemed to be the hardest part on my knee, but with my collapsible hiking poles, I made it :-) We are thinking about Clear Creek Canyon in Lake Powell next. Anxious to get back to Larry Canyon to finish it correctly :haha:. Good the surgeon decided to double up the ACL with a spare when he did the surgery.

[ratagonia]

We'll I'm back in the saddle after my epic in Larry Canyon last year and ACL surgery... just finished my first technical canyon since the ordeal. We took a small group of young men through Birch Hollow, down Orderville Canyon and out the narrows (12 or so miles I understand) and my knee held up with my new Breg Fusion XT brace. Walking on the greased bowling balls in the narrows seemed to be the hardest part on my knee, but with my collapsible hiking poles, I made it :-) We are thinking about Clear Creek Canyon in Lake Powell next. Anxious to get back to Larry Canyon to finish it correctly :haha:. Good the surgeon decided to double up the ACL with a spare when he did the surgery.

Excellent news, and congratulations on your recovery and on a-riding the horse again.

Tom

[DSTRBD]

As a bogley noob, I just read this entire story from top to bottom, Amazing story and alot of great info here. Glad your back out doing the things you enjoy!!

[Deathcricket]

Oh wow I remember this story. Glad to hear you are back in action TNT!!! :clap:

Side note: I got flamed by several Wayne county search and rescue for my 1st comment there. I had a lot of fun trolling them.

[accadacca]

Congrats on your recovery! Great story and conversation for sure. :popcorn: