Whats wrong with the the rigging?

[cookiecutter]

Its dead week here at Weber. Nothing to do but study, thus the door room anchor set up.

So whats wrong?

I have seen a friend rig this way in practice.
Shown is direction of pull.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/4153915529_e3339c7636.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2767/4153915777_1ab99fc59a.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/4153916181_21d903fb59.jpg

[ratagonia]

Looks like you have a Munter hitch on your biner block, rather than a clove hitch - a little trick that Randi uses from time to time to speed up passage through the canyons.... ha!

or???

:moses:

[Brian in SLC]

Looks like you have a Munter hitch on your biner block, rather than a clove hitch - a little trick that Randi uses from time to time to speed up passage through the canyons..

Ouch, funny!

Yeah, top photo looks like a munter. Bottom just looks like a wrap of sorts.

Tying into a single door and handle isn't really redundant. Be best if you backed it up to the towel rack in the bathroom...

-Brian in SLC
(who keeps cord in the living room to rig with...)

[Randi]

Looks like you have a Munter hitch on your biner block, rather than a clove hitch - a little trick that Randi uses from time to time to speed up passage through the canyons.... ha!

or???

:moses:

It was a "friend" (& I use that term very loosly like HIS knot) who tied that biner/munter, which had me zipping through the canyon!
But, ya know - I would keep an eye on EVERY biner block, and make sure that if any adjustments are done between folks rapelling, that the knot is dressed correctly, because it CAN fail with a slight barely perceptable shift of the cordage, Moses.

[Randi]

Looks like you have a Munter hitch on your biner block, rather than a clove hitch - a little trick that Randi uses from time to time to speed up passage through the canyons..

Ouch, funny!

-Brian in SLC


It wasn't funny at the time :/

[ScoutColorado]

Tying into a single door and handle isn't really redundant. Be best if you backed it up to the towel rack in the bathroom...

-Brian in SLC
(who keeps cord in the living room to rig with...)
:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

[Brian in SLC]

It wasn't funny at the time :/

Yeah, I'll bet not.

Now its a "teachable moment" or some such, and, a source of Tom's wicked sense of humor.

Oh, wicked wicked Tom.

I'd a been pretty bummed at the time. To say the least.

Coulda woulda shoulda...

Cheers!

-Brian in SLC

[cookiecutter]

Looks like you have a Munter hitch on your biner block, rather than a clove hitch - a little trick that Randi uses from time to time to speed up passage through the canyons.... ha!

or???

:moses:

Nailed it. That'd be a fast ride down...when I was learning the munter and clove I would sometimes get them mixed up while rigging.

[cookiecutter]

Looks like you have a Munter hitch on your biner block, rather than a clove hitch - a little trick that Randi uses from time to time to speed up passage through the canyons..

Ouch, funny!

Yeah, top photo looks like a munter. Bottom just looks like a wrap of sorts.

Tying into a single door and handle isn't really redundant. Be best if you backed it up to the towel rack in the bathroom...

-Brian in SLC
(who keeps cord in the living room to rig with...)

Even better would have been using my roommate as a meat anchor, all he does is watch tv. Might as well make good use of him.

[oldno7]

Technically--your anchor is fine, door knob's,webbing,rapide.
It is your rigging that is flawed.(munter on biner)

The anchor end's at your rapide, anything done with the rope, attaching to this rapide, is rigging.

[cookiecutter]

Technically--your anchor is fine, door knob's,webbing,rapide.
It is your rigging that is flawed.(munter on biner)

The anchor end's at your rapide, anything done with the rope, attaching to this rapide, is rigging.

Thanks for the clarification. Fixed it.

[stefan]

Technically--your anchor is fine, door knob's,webbing,rapide.


what about the hinges?

[cookiecutter]

No one has commented on the un-locked biner, that brings me to a question:

What is the consensus as far as locking the biner during a biner block? I've always locked it

[MSchasch]

No one has commented on the un-locked biner, that brings me to a question:

What is the consensus as far as locking the biner during a biner block? I've always locked it


ALWAYS lock. Even large biners if left unlocked could work themselves through the rapide.

[Scott Card]

Dang, I never thought of taking pictures of the home made anchors. I should have photographed my rigging I did to hang my christmas lights. Here is the description. I lassoed my daughters bed and pulled the rope out her window for one side of the pitch of the roof. I then took the rope up and over the pitch and then and I slung my old riding lawn mower for the other side of the pitch of the roof. So I had one line from my daughters window up and over the peak, down the other side to my lawn mower. Both were at an angle so I couldn't fall off the front of the roof either. The real purpose for the rope was to prevent me sliding and screaming as I went only to break my legs. I think next year I will place a couple of bolts up at the peak. I thought maybe the satelite dish may do but those screws are short and it is already wiggly. Give me bolts! These natural anchors are ruining my peak shingles! :haha:

[Iceaxe]

I lassoed my daughters bed and pulled the rope out her window for one side of the pitch of the roof. I then took the rope up and over the pitch and then and I slung my old riding lawn mower

Careful Scott, A few years back there was a similar story about a guy that anchored off the trailer hitch on his truck so he could hang lights. While tied into the rope his wife jumped in the truck without looking and took off for the grocery store. She pulled him off the roof and down the driveway. It used him up pretty good but he lived.

So... I was just thinking if your daughter brought her boyfriend over while you were tied into her bed.... it could get ugly fast.... :lol8:

:popcorn:

[Scott Card]

So... I was just thinking if your daughter brought her boyfriend over while you were tied into her bed.... it could get ugly fast.... :lol8:

:popcorn:

:eek2: Oh the horror. She is 15. And she has been taught since birth how utterly stupid that would be on soooo many levels.

No, I don't think that would ever happen with my daughter. Jeez, boys have to go through a background check, credit check, fill out a form about their families' mental history and finally be cross examined by me before they can date my daughters. I wonder if there is a boy out there man enough to date my daughters. :lol8:

BTW, you don't have sons do you? If so, don't even think about it. But I digress... what was this thread about anyway??? :lol8:

[ratagonia]

Technically--your anchor is fine, door knob's,webbing,rapide.
It is your rigging that is flawed.(munter on biner)

The anchor end's at your rapide, anything done with the rope, attaching to this rapide, is rigging.

There's two 'stages' commonly referred to as 'rigging'. There is rigging the anchor to prepare it to accept the rope; and there is rigging the rope for the rappel.

Tom :moses:

[oldno7]

Rigging denotes your rope work of choice, ie.
double strand
single strand
biner block
munter mule
etc. etc

I can't qoute you anywhere that this is a fact, but I'm certain you can't do likewise. For clarities sake, my interpretation is the best. :haha:
When I teach technical courses we spend a day on anchor "building", then move on to "rigging".

I would say that when you pull down your anchoring system with you, be it potshot's, retrievable webbing,macrame, etc. it becomes very intertwined. But for general everyday trade canyon's it seem's prudent to make a clear distinction.

[Iceaxe]

When I teach technical courses we spend a day on anchor "building", then move on to "rigging".

I like this annotation better... clear and precise, with little room for misinterpretation.

:nod:

[ratagonia]

When I teach technical courses we spend a day on anchor "building", then move on to "rigging".

I like this annotation better... clear and precise, with little room for misinterpretation.

:nod:

Well, I hope after building the anchor, you rig it so it will accept a rope... ha ha!!

Dictionary:

rig

[oldno7]

And how--oh ornery one--does either of your definition's have any relevence here??
I'm sorry you've not known of the distinction before now, but clearly at your pre-senility state of life, it ain't to late to change. :lol8:

[oldno7]

[quote="Iceaxe"][quote=oldno7]quote]



At just to be even more ornery :cool2: please note that in the original example, the problem was in the rigging of the rope!

Tom :moses:

AH-HA--see you've got it now---rigging--rope. :five:

[ratagonia]

And how--oh ornery one--does either of your definition's have any relevence here??
I'm sorry you've not known of the distinction before now, but clearly at your pre-senility state of life, it ain't to late to change. :lol8:

I believe the term in canyoneering and climbing comes from the nautical usage. On ships, the stuff that stays in place is the "standing rigging", and the stuff that moves is the... OK, now I'm making stuff up.

Pre-senile? Surely you jest!

:moses:

[oldno7]

And how--oh ornery one--does either of your definition's have any relevence here??
I'm sorry you've not known of the distinction before now, but clearly at your pre-senility state of life, it ain't to late to change. :lol8:



Pre-senile? Surely you jest!

:moses:

I'm not shir about Shirley.....
But yea--I jest.

[Bo_Beck]

Rigging denotes your rope work of choice, ie.
double strand
single strand
biner block
munter mule
etc. etc

I can't qoute you anywhere that this is a fact, but I'm certain you can't do likewise. For clarities sake, my interpretation is the best. :haha:
When I teach technical courses we spend a day on anchor "building", then move on to "rigging".

I would say that when you pull down your anchoring system with you, be it potshot's, retrievable webbing,macrame, etc. it becomes very intertwined. But for general everyday trade canyon's it seem's prudent to make a clear distinction.

Ok...let me throw in another idea in just to sweeten the "pot (shot)".
In H.A.R., the term rigging is "All Inclusive". Anchors, mainlines, tensioned lines, belay lines, hoist lines, load limiters, belay devices, lowering devices, progress ratchets, high directionals, offsets, redirects, tag lines, guidelines, tensioning systems, pretensioned back ties, tensioned front ties ,etc.etc.etc. I would therefore venture to guess that anchor building is just an active component of the whole "rigging" (verb) process?! Yea? Nay?

[Bo_Beck]

Technically--your anchor is fine, door knob's,webbing,rapide.
It is your rigging that is flawed.(munter on biner)

Noun


There's two 'stages' commonly referred to as 'rigging'. There is rigging the anchor to prepare it to accept the rope; and there is rigging the rope for the rappel.

Tom :moses:

Verb

[ratagonia]

Technically--your anchor is fine, door knob's,webbing,rapide.
It is your rigging that is flawed.(munter on biner)

Noun


There's two 'stages' commonly referred to as 'rigging'. There is rigging the anchor to prepare it to accept the rope; and there is rigging the rope for the rappel.

Tom :moses:

Verb

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say...

:moses:

[oldno7]

[quote=oldno7]Rigging denotes your rope work of choice, ie.
double strand
single strand
biner block
munter mule
etc. etc

I can't qoute you anywhere that this is a fact, but I'm certain you can't do likewise. For clarities sake, my interpretation is the best. :haha:
When I teach technical courses we spend a day on anchor "building", then move on to "rigging".

I would say that when you pull down your anchoring system with you, be it potshot's, retrievable webbing,macrame, etc. it becomes very intertwined. But for general everyday trade canyon's it seem's prudent to make a clear distinction.


[quote]In H.A.R., the term rigging is "All Inclusive". Anchors, mainlines, tensioned lines, belay lines, hoist lines, load limiters, belay devices, lowering devices, progress ratchets, high directionals, offsets, redirects, tag lines, guidelines, tensioning systems, pretensioned back ties, tensioned front ties ,etc.etc.etc. [quote]



Bo
Correct me if I'm wrong---everything you mentioned here, minus the first word "anchor" is ropework. I still think there is a clear distinction.

[oldno7]

I really suck at proper English, but-----
If Bo labeled my version of rigging a "noun", and Tom's version a "verb"---
I deem Bo's version an "adjective" describing ropework. :mrgreen:

[ratagonia]

I really suck at proper English, but-----
If Bo labeled my version of rigging a "noun", and Tom's version a "verb"---
I deem Bo's version an "adjective" describing ropework. :mrgreen:

Nah, he was just pointing out that the word "rigging" is used as both a noun and a verb - not that unusual.

:moses:

[ratagonia]

Correct me if I'm wrong---everything you mentioned here, minus the first word "anchor" is ropework. I still think there is a clear distinction.

Language is quite democratic. If'n you want to use the language more distinctly than the general populace, more power to ya. Yes, I find students find it confusing to call two different processes by the same general name. What do you label "rigging the anchor" then, or maybe it would be good to "rig the anchor", then "set up the rope"...

I'm willing to try pushing it in a different direction if we can establish a clear vernacular...

Oh wait. I forgot. "democratic" is a dirty word in this state...

Tom :moses:

[oldno7]

Correct me if I'm wrong---everything you mentioned here, minus the first word "anchor" is ropework. I still think there is a clear distinction.

Language is quite democratic. If'n you want to use the language more distinctly than the general populace, more power to ya. Yes, I find students find it confusing to call two different processes by the same general name. What do you label "rigging the anchor" then, or maybe it would be good to "rig the anchor", then "set up the rope"...

I'm willing to try pushing it in a different direction if we can establish a clear vernacular...

Oh wait. I forgot. "democratic" is a dirty word in this state...

Tom :moses:

My thought's are--you build/construct anchors. Then rig your rope from there. As I stated earlier, I see overlap of the two when doing retrievable/releasable "stuff". In a macrame', your rope is used to build the anchor. With your new sand trap--I would say you build the anchor, then rig. The same with rapping off potshot's, whether single or multiple bag's are used, your building an anchor point for your ropework of choice(rigging)

Democratic is good when used as an adjective describing a process. It beat's the bejeebies out of a dictatorship......(yes I'm still talkin' canyoneering)