Ethical Question

[Iceaxe]

So the other day an old acquaintance offers to trade me $200 in food stamps for $100 cash.

Here are a few more details.... I know the cash is going to be used to buy drugs, the guy is a meth head and his wife is a crack whore. They have no kids so I'm not taking food out of the mouth of babes. If I don't take the deal than someone else will. With the amount of taxes I pay it's really my money to begin with. Food stamp boy offered to go down and buy the food I pointed out and I'd just give him the cash after, this would allow me to avoid the embarrassment of using food stamps and would be slightly more legal..... while the guy is a druggie I do know it

[DiscGo]

That for me is a no brainer.

Don't do it.


You know the old adage of "Every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings"? I already know too many people who abuse the system and get food stamps that don't need help, I certainly don't want to feel like "every time food stamps are traded a druggie gets his fix"

[Last Child]

That for me is a no brainer.

Don't do it.


You know the old adage of "Every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings"? I already know too many people who abuse the system and get food stamps that don't need help, I certainly don't want to feel like "every time food stamps are traded a druggie gets his fix"

I agree. Don't promote someone elses drug habit. You know, the whole Karma thing?

[stefan]

If I don't take the deal than someone else will.

what does this mean to you?

[devo_stevo]

I'll chime in here with a hearty don't do it.

I feel the same way about helping people out on the street. I don't mind buying a hungry man food, but I have a real problem giving someone money so that they can get loaded. Bad idea.

[Iceaxe]

Honestly the entire thing really pisses me off..... The government takes a giant chuck of my hard earned money and gives it to the scum of the earth in the form of food stamps, which they sale to buy more drugs.....

My problem is I'm not sure who I am more pissed off at.... the government for taking my money and giving it to scum.... or the scum for taking the welfare and turning it into drugs....

Sometimes I think everyone is getting a chuck of the money I make except me.... and that really chaps my ass....

So.... should I do the right thing and just walk away..... or.... give the entire system the finger by buying steak and lobster with half price food stamps?

[Rant OFF]

:soapbox:

[Scott Card]

Honestly the entire thing really pisses me off..... The government takes a giant chuck of my hard earned money and gives it to the scum of the earth in the form of food stamps, which they sale to buy more drugs.....

My problem is I'm not sure who I am more pissed off at.... the government for taking my money and giving it to scum.... or the scum for taking the welfare and turning it into drugs....

Sometimes I think everyone is getting a chuck of the money I make except me.... and that really chaps my ass....

So.... should I do the right thing and just walk away..... or.... give the entire system the finger by buying steak and lobster with half price food stamps?

[Rant OFF]

:soapbox:I understand a senate seat will be up for grabs.... :haha: Go for it.

Actually I agree with you. It drives me nuts too. The sad cases are those with kids. Back in the day, when I was working in a grocery store, I would have kids go through my line multiple times with 10 cent items with a one dollar food stamp. Their parents would collect the change and buy smokes and booze. There was not a darn thing anyone could do about it.

[Ih8grvty]

Honestly the entire thing really pisses me off..... The government takes a giant chuck of my hard earned money and gives it to the scum of the earth in the form of food stamps, which they sale to buy more drugs.....

My problem is I'm not sure who I am more pissed off at.... the government for taking my money and giving it to scum.... or the scum for taking the welfare and turning it into drugs....

Sometimes I think everyone is getting a chuck of the money I make except me.... and that really chaps my ass....

So.... should I do the right thing and just walk away..... or.... give the entire system the finger by buying steak and lobster with half price food stamps?

[Rant OFF]

:soapbox:

Not all of them are the scum of the earth, but Id go as far as 85% are pure dog shit that should be scraped off the shoe of society as a whole.

That being said, I would not do it, not because of morals or some lofty standard, just because I hate meth sucking crack heads. He may get what he wants, but it wouldnt be from me, I refuse to associate with them, period.
Course, since he is defrauding the system and worthless to begin with, you could always turn him in. Hell, you could turn him in then go through with it and watch him get busted, and laugh.
I support anyones right to smoke some weed, maybe eat some shrooms, but crack, meth, crank,LSD, all that crap? the world is better off with out it, and with out them.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Ethical Question

First off, you have ethics? :haha:


My problem is I'm not sure who I am more pissed off at.... the government for taking my money and giving it to scum.... or the scum for taking the welfare and turning it into drugs....

Sometimes I think everyone is getting a chuck of the money I make except me.... and that really chaps my ass....

Well it is obvious that the Moochers are holding you back. If you could have kept all that tax money you have paid over the years, you would have your own railroad made of Rearden Metal by now. :roflol:

Everybody else is screwing the system so that justifies you doing the same. After all, nobody is looking out for number one but you!




James

[KapitanSparrow]

I think you're fine to double your family's $100 food dollars in these tough economic times :haha: Your other options are not too great :ne_nau:

[blueeyes]

Why don't you save him some time and just go buy the drugs for him. :ne_nau:

Have him buy your groceries so you can save face and not be embarrassed using food stamps that you purchased illegally from your friend :nod: and you can directly contribute to his lazy ass by purchasing his drugs of choice.

Yeah sounds like a win win situation to me. :roll:

[Scott P]

I know the cash is going to be used to buy drugs, the guy is a meth head and his wife is a crack whore

If the above is true, why not turn them into the cops and get them put in jail? :ne_nau: You could also turn him in for offering you the food stamps.

[Deathcricket]

Ohh tough one!

If we change this around and instead of buying drugs, the guy was using the money to get his grandma a badly needed kidney transplant in mexico. Would you feel completely justified in receiving the food stamps?

Ethically speaking I believe you are not responsible for the actions of others, they are. So if you are ok receiving food stamps from a program you don't qualify for, then pelase enjoy your steak dinner. I think I would probably give him the $100 and enjoy my $200 in food as well. In my mind the stamps are his since he qualifies for the program and what he does with them is his business. Including selling them for drug money. If he was selling me his tv at a discounted price, I would probably buy that too.

The line of course is drawn when he sells stolen merchandise. And food stamps are clearly not stolen property.

[bruce from bryce]

Well that's the Democrats for you? You make, they take.

Why not get the two of them in a treatment program?

You are rationalizing why you should take the free food but in reality you want justification for sacrificing your own ethics.

[blueeyes]

It is a felony or misdimeanor to buy and sale food stamps.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/rules/Regulations/pdfs/110106.pdf#xml=http://65.216.150.153/texis/search/pdfhi.txt?query=selling+food+stamps&pr=FNS&prox=page&rorder=500&rprox=500&rdfreq=500&rwfreq=500&rlead=500&rdepth=0&sufs=0&order=r&cq=&id=4ace932717


(3) Section 15(c) of the Food Stamp
Act reads as follows:
Whoever presents, or causes to be
presented, coupons for payment or
redemption of the value of $100 or more,
knowing the same to have been received,
transferred, or used in any manner in
violation of the provisions of this Act or the
regulations issued pursuant to this Act, shall
be guilty of a felony and, upon the first
conviction thereof, shall be fined not more
than $20,000 or imprisoned for not more
than five years, or both, and upon the second
and any subsequent conviction thereof, shall
be imprisoned for not less than one year nor
more than five years and may also be fined
not more than $20,000 or if such coupons
are of a value of less than $100, shall be
guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon the first
conviction thereof, shall be fined not more
than $1,000 or imprisoned for not more than
one year, or both, and upon the second and
any subsequent conviction thereof, shall be
imprisoned for not more than one year and
may also be fined not more than $1,000. In
addition to such penalties, any persons
convicted of a felony or misdemeanor
violation under this subsection may be
suspended by the court from participation in
the food stamp program for an additional
period of up to eighteen months consecutive
to that period of suspension mandated by
section 6(b) (1) of this Act.


Illegal is illegal. They are not his possesion to sale.

[Jaxx]

Give him the $100. Now you can have the money for a kick A bbq at your house.

BOGLEY BBQ AT ICE'S HOUSE THIS SUNDAY 6 PM!!!!!

[trackrunner]

BOGLEY BBQ AT ICE'S HOUSE THIS SUNDAY 6 PM!!!!!

In, Shane consider this my RSVP

is this a BYOB type party

:boozer: :friday: :pitcher:

[DiscGo]

That would be awesome if we all showed up at Shane's house and pressured him into entertaining us :)

[nelsonccc]

[quote=Iceaxe]So the other day an old acquaintance offers to trade me $200 in food stamps for $100 cash.

Here are a few more details.... I know the cash is going to be used to buy drugs, the guy is a meth head and his wife is a crack whore. They have no kids so I'm not taking food out of the mouth of babes. If I don't take the deal than someone else will. With the amount of taxes I pay it's really my money to begin with. Food stamp boy offered to go down and buy the food I pointed out and I'd just give him the cash after, this would allow me to avoid the embarrassment of using food stamps and would be slightly more legal..... while the guy is a druggie I do know it

[savanna3313]

Ethics aside, help out a drug user just once and you are opening the door to constant harassment with requests for money, favors, etc.....

[Iceaxe]

It is a felony or misdimeanor to buy and sale food stamps.

You missed the fine print.... In this deal you would be buying and selling food. And the fine print would probably make a big difference when trying to get an actual conviction. Legally I would be on pretty solid ground as I would be buying food and not food stamps, almost impossiable for the state to prove otherwise..... And....The state is not going to spend thousands on a case of $200. To me this is only a moral question....



If the above is true, why not turn them into the cops and get them put in jail? :ne_nau: You could also turn him in for offering you the food stamps.

Most the cops I know are the biggest crooks on the planet and would take the drugs and food stamps for themselves.... as you can tell I don't have a high opinion of Johnny Law.... seen to much crooked shit from the cops.... I could fill 5 pages of crooked cop stories and maybe one page of helpful cop stories.....



You are rationalizing why you should take the free food but in reality you want justification for sacrificing your own ethics.

Nothing so grand as that..... I already know what I'd do/did do.... and I'm comfortable with my ethical choice.... I just thought the subject presented an interesting conundrum for discussion.



If we change this around and instead of buying drugs, the guy was using the money to get his grandma a badly needed kidney transplant in mexico. Would you feel completely justified in receiving the food stamps?

Deathcricket..... I always enjoy hearing your view on these things.... you always make a good case for your thoughts.



Ethics aside, help out a drug user just once and you are opening the door to constant harassment with requests for money, favors, etc.....

Actually... I know exactly how this deal would unfold.... the only thing I'd be opening the door for is more 1/2 price food stamps.....



That would be awesome if we all showed up at Shane's house and pressured him into entertaining us :)

No pressure dude.... just show up with a case of beer and a couple of strippers and we'll party hard.... or at least until someone pukes.



I think you're fine to double your family's $100 food dollars in these tough economic times :haha: Your other options are not too great :ne_nau:

This is anther interesting turn..... if my family is experiencing tough economic times does this change things? What if the extra money is going to buy baby food and milk for the kids?



:cool2:

[jman]

This is anther interesting turn..... if my family is experiencing tough economic times does this change things? What if the extra money is going to buy baby food and milk for the kids?



your last one is interesting and, want to open it more to discussion, because it brings up the classical ethical question of "A poverty-stricken man stealing medicine for his sick wife."

My rationale would be family (or a life) always comes first. If my family is struggling, I'm going to do whatever it takes to support my family. It's similar to a hospital's slogan, "Federal Law gives you the right to emergency care, regardless of your ability to pay."

Above that, though, feeding addictions and taking advantage is another story.

True, you could argue, that stealing medicine takes away from that companies earnings and the company might let-go of employees to compensate, thus devasating more families because of that one person.
THEN one could counter-argue that as the great philospher Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Is that a realistic and rational statement, and would there be a answer to that?

I'll still stand by my statement of family comes first. I can't see myself saying "honey its okay to die cause your sick, cause we are saving handfuls of employees from being let go..."

BUT then again, a counter-argument to that could be the story of world war 2 and the atomic bomb. Instead of land-attacks on Japan, and theorehetically destroying MILLIONS more of lives, it would save more lives by droping the atomic bomb on Japan than by land-attacks and invasion. Thus, millions of lives were saved. Ergo, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Those are tough questions...

[blueeyes]

Ice I didn't miss the fine print.

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

If you are asking an ethical question, and this is about ethics. The ethical thing is not to do it.

Now if you don't really give a dam about ethics and honest values by all means open your home to being a cash service for groceries bought with food stamps.

Instead of robbing the rich to feed the poor you can be the hero by paying the poor cash for their food at half price. Yep like I said sounds like a win win situation.