TR: No Kidding!

[forum8fox]

We woke up on Sunday after doing Sandthrax the day before we were a bit sore, but we knew we had to prevail and push for a clean descent of No Kidding.

Thanks to Tom for the Beta and the 2 potshots to try out, they proved quite
useful.

We got a somewhat liesurely start again this time dropping in around 10-10:30 I think. We started off with a fun little down climb into shallow narrows that weren't all that spectacular. Eventually the narrows got deeper and the light was really good for photo's (too bad my temp replacment camera sucks). We kept going, me in the back as I was caught up shooting the light. I push through after a bit to find I'm alone.
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I continue on untill I come to a drop with no one in sight and no rope or anchors fixed.

I'm slightly curious what's happened as I scope out a very unlikely very exposed high penalty points down climb. I call out seeking the awnswer and at first hear nothing. so I call out again. Finally I figure out that they went around it on the left hand wall and down a spooky slabby ramp to the narrow section below the drop. It takes a little effort to muster the courage on my own not having seen it done and no one around to spot or coach but I figure it out and move on to the team.

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I'm not sure why this drop was bypassed, I would guess to save time but I wasn't there so I can't say. I catch up shortly at the first pothole rap. The hole has a nasty lip and Tom had suggested we bring a board for it so we did. Eric went first and it didn't work out as well as hoped so we changed the plan to shorten the board as it was already cracked, and build a dirt ramp up instead. We also added more dirt to most of the shots. Ben went next, and he weigh's 180 so Nate and I knew we were good to go because he weigh's 135-140 and I weigh 140-150.
The shot's held him fine and Nate proceeded down. Since I re-rigged this one I decided to go last. No problems, although I still tried to use the slide ramp for friction to take some weight off. Also once I was fully on the rope I let loose on the grip and slid to the bottom at a controlled high speed. Perfect slide!

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We decided to pull the bags at this point as we were worried about them
snagging(we rapped into an oddly shaped pothole). We pulled them with a bit of effort, once they let loose the last couple came flying down with the board. We got dusted in the hole by all the falling sand. We then re-rigged for the next drop on the lip of the hole with Eric's haul bag pad and 2 pot shots. No issues, Nate went last this time and we pulled the anchor with ease.

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We continue on through some more easy shallow potholes and sculpted slightly narrow sections untill we come to a slung chock stone. Eric decides to rap off it with a back up and scope it out. He comes down to a ledge shortly, with not much of a lip on it at all. He says there is no sand and only room for 2.

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We fill shots and send them down and send Nate down to help. They get it rigged up in short order. Eric was a little unsure as he wanted to put in more shot's but ran out of room so, I instructed him to move the anchored shots back so he would have more room to stack extra shots on top of them. The idea being 2 of the least full shots being anchored to the rap line and stacked at the right distance from the lip. Then we would fill them up pretty full with the fullest on top for ease of pull. Kinda like a deadman but slightly different, Only a slight lip to keep it from pulling but that's all it takes with a bunch of bags on top.

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I down climb after Eric raps and back Nate up, then have Ben come down (after cleaning out the webbing)and rap as I back him up. I rap last with complete confidence (nothing moved when Ben rapped and he's 30 pounds heavier then I)
despite the meager looking anchor I'm leaving behind.We pull the bags with ease again.

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We continue on down the pretty canyon untill comming to our first and possibly only keeper. We passed it with ease, Nate and Eric partner assisted through, I got it solo via a mantle, and I think Ben did also but I'm not sure. After that we came to another pothole which I think is supposed to be the start of the long rap section. We use Eric's pack again , this time to bring the shots closer to the lip for ease of pull. We rap and easily pull the ropes again.

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We continue on and shortly encounter the next drop, I see a perfect oppertunity to test my vision of another shallow lipped potshot anchor. The idea being the closer they are to the lip the easier they pull if stacked correctly.

I could have rigged back further but then we would have not known if it was going to clean well. Also this rap was a double through a pothole (not keeper).
I went first and came down to another oppertunity to set up another anchor in a similar fashion. Which worked out well as that way we only had to pull the bags through 1 hole. They pulled fine with Nate rapping last, and I got the next drop rigged up.

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Off I went past a ledge on down to the bottom of the second double drop. I'm pretty sure Nate went last again, and again everything pulled clean like a charm.

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We go down canyon for a little ways and come to the final rap, we find a place to rig which should ensure a clean pull and Eric wants the last rap for a change so we let him have it. Pulling the bags was slightly chaotic as I had a premonition it might be. I notices some flakes and things that looked like they could snag a bag or a strap of a bag and hang them up. Sure enough once a couple had pulled we got a snag. It took all 4 of us but we broke it free ripping the bag in the process. Luckily it was one of the home made jobbies. I like Tom's potshots!

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The End!

[Iceaxe]

Thanks for providing us all a sweet lesson in anchors. :2thumbs:

It was a joy to watch your trip through pictures and see a canyon be descended through team work, skill and ingenuity instead of pounding a dozen bolts into the rock.

[cookiecutter]

Completely sweet, I've loved all of your trip reports. They definitely allow me to see what I could possibly doing in the future. Very nice!

[ratagonia]

Brilliant!!! :2thumbs:

You've expanded the concept of the sandbag/potshot into new territory. Very nice.

Tom :moses:

[forum8fox]

That's pretty cool that we figured out a new way to use these things, that makes me pretty happy. Also Ram says he thinks were the first group to ghost it too which is also a great accomplishment. All in all I felt it was a very rewarding trip.

Thanks again for the pot shots to test out, as I said before I really liked them. Hopefully you find the new way to use them useful as we did. Seems that the more you have the less lip you need, the more the merrier. We had 7 and often put 6 to use.

[Canyonbug]

Great TR, but is it just me that can't see the photos?

[forum8fox]

Nope, not just you at this point in time. Somehow with in 3 days I exceeded my allowed bandwith use for my photo bucket account. I'm allowed 10+ gig's a month, they will come back in a month apparently. you can try to search on photo bucket, specify you are searching for people, and type in forum8fox in the box. you might be able to view my albums, I tried it earlier after signing out and it allowed me to see them, the no kidding photo's are in the main forum8fox album where the sandthrax pics are in the canyons album.

[Canyonbug]

OK, I'll try that. I am interested in your photos as this has been one of my favorites I have done. If you are interested you can see a video I did while there when we went through and ghosted the canyon. I hope it was still in as pristine a condition for your group. It is a very fun and advanced canyon. My video is linked here:

http://northwashoutfitters.com/blog/?page_id=68

[theking648]

i'll post your album link

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w232/forum8fox/

[forum8fox]

Alright guys, I upgraded cause it was killing me, Enjoy!

[Canyonbug]

Alright guys, I upgraded cause it was killing me, Enjoy! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

[DWayne27]

Where is this canyon? Any ideas on where I can find some beta?

[CarpeyBiggs]

Where is this canyon? Any ideas on where I can find some beta?

It runs parallel to the Kelsey Exit from the Butler Forks.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/302bbutlerwests.jpg

From Tom's site

http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/north/

[DWayne27]

Awesome - thanks. I know shenanigans is a bad idea for canyoneers of my stature - what about no kidding? Anyone been through fooling around lately to know about water levels? We are probably headed back to the north wash in a couple weeks, and I am wanting to know if i would be in over my head doing these off the main road canyons. We wont have a 4 wheek drive, and most likely not wetsuits, so if there is substantial water in fooling around, or any others, they are probably out

[Scott Card]

Awesome - thanks. I know shenanigans is a bad idea for canyoneers of my stature - what about no kidding? Anyone been through fooling around lately to know about water levels? We are probably headed back to the north wash in a couple weeks, and I am wanting to know if i would be in over my head doing these off the main road canyons. We wont have a 4 wheek drive, and most likely not wetsuits, so if there is substantial water in fooling around, or any others, they are probably out This time of year I would never consider Foolin' around without a wet suit. The last narrows, at least each time I have done it, is always a cold swim. Do Monkey Business. I have stature too. :haha: I like Monkey Business for the fact that you don't need a wet suit.

[CarpeyBiggs]

Awesome - thanks. I know shenanigans is a bad idea for canyoneers of my stature - what about no kidding? Anyone been through fooling around lately to know about water levels? We are probably headed back to the north wash in a couple weeks, and I am wanting to know if i would be in over my head doing these off the main road canyons. We wont have a 4 wheek drive, and most likely not wetsuits, so if there is substantial water in fooling around, or any others, they are probably out

No kidding is fine, there is zero skinny sections to be concerned about. However, there are zero natural anchor possibilities in there, so you should have some sort of anchor plan before you go in. You'll need potshots or something similar. Something like 7 raps to 50 feet or so... (I think?)

Fooling around always has 1 swim, as far as i know. It can be bypassed left side LDC, but you have to walk around a significant section of canyon. You don't need 4 wheel drive for any of the butlers. Monkey business is probably a good option. Just kidding is a longer day, but still pretty good. No kidding takes a couple hours. Shenanigans is probably doable, you'd have to exit after the 3rd narrows though, which still are very good.

[DWayne27]

Thanks for all the input and responses - much appreciated. How are the roads getting back to that area? Anything a passenger car should be worried about? Or is the approach on foot?

[CarpeyBiggs]

Thanks for all the input and responses - much appreciated. How are the roads getting back to that area? Anything a passenger car should be worried about? Or is the approach on foot?

no problem getting to the parking spot, then you walk the seismic road to each of the respective drainages.

[stefan]

great stuff :2thumbs:

many thanks for sharing your adventures.


if you're interested in the tale of the descent that gave the canyon its name ... this is goofball's (jason) account of his solo descent of the previously unknown canyon. he first posted it on the canyons group, but it's up on canyon tales

goofball's tale of no kidding (http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=nokidding)

[goofball]

great stuff :2thumbs:

many thanks for sharing your adventures.


if you're interested in the tale of the descent that gave the canyon its name ... this is goofball's (jason) account of his solo descent of the previously unknown canyon. he first posted it on the canyons group, but it's up on canyon tales

goofball's tale of no kidding (http://www.math.utah.edu/~sfolias/canyontales/tale/?i=nokidding)

how embarrassing. must have been off the meds...

[DWayne27]

in looking over beta and maps to do monkey business this weekend, it looks like the 4th class climbing 'kelsey exit' from monkey business/shennanigans/fooling around goes right up or at least very near no kidding. obviously hard to tell from looking at a topo. if we did monkey and wanted to do no kidding, how much longer would that add? is it just time spent creating anchors?

also, the climbing sections on the exit, how difficult and what kind of exposure is it? none of us are real climbers... just want is necessary to do canyons

[forum8fox]

Yep it's right next to the kelsey exit. the kelsey exit isn't to bad, you could partner assist it most likely if needed. Of note there is a hard to notice trail that cuts off right out of the gully maybe 2/3-3/4 of the way up, to avoid the final bit, ben went up the gully the whole way as he walked right past the faint trail.

As far as time spent in the canyon, depends on your experience, could probly take some folks all day. Yes it's all about anchor building. Don't go in there with out a lot of pot shots or a sand trap or something similar and a good game plan. We had 7 shots and put 6 to use. We had 3 ropes also, 2 were 60 meter climbing ropes (an 8mm and a 10.5mm) aswell as the 9MM static line we cleaned out of sandthrax. Leave the bolt kit and materials to fix shit at home, the canyon doesn't need that trash. Don't lower the canyon to your ability. Also you will probly want ascenders/ prusiks and the ability to use them incase things snag.

Good luck it's a sweet challange, but I don't reccomend trying to do it after monkey business. Not to say it's impossible, but considering you've never been down it and the fact that I have no idea how you fare with complex retrievable anchor building.

[DWayne27]

awesome - thanks for the info and quick reply.

i think we will leave no kidding for another time, maybe when i can find someone more skilled in these fancy retrievable anchors.

[ratagonia]

awesome - thanks for the info and quick reply.

i think we will leave no kidding for another time, maybe when i can find someone more skilled in these fancy retrievable anchors.

4-6 hours first time. Less with a SandTrap.

Also, for No Kidding, bring a 200' rope to fix on the first set of drops, and clean it on your way back up.

Tom :moses:

[devo_stevo]

What are you hiding on your photobucket there? At work, this is what I get when I try to look at your album. :haha: :naughty:


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[forum8fox]

RIP my friend, may you live forever through these TR's.