Myth Busters Canyon Style

[Iceaxe]

Lot's of very interesting information.....

Click here for MYTH BUSTERS (http://onrope1.com/mythbusters.htm)

And best of all they appear to have done a good job backing up their claims.

:popcorn:

[Deathcricket]

Myth #11: Opposite and Opposing Carabiners used in conjunction establish a more secure connection.


Truth: This only applies to NON-LOCKING carabiners, which should not be used in applications requiring such safety. This should have become a non-issue in WWII when locking carabiners were invented. Instead, carabiner users have hung onto some of these old methods and think they apply to all carabiners. This is not so.

Proper positioning of two locking carabiners is via similar orientation, i.e.: both gates in same position, and are used for added strength or greater rope radius.

So funny. I definitely use this while climbing and using quick draws. But it carried over into canyoneering. Simply because I do it the same way each time. So if I come to a bolted run with some welded carbiners on it. I still will reverse them so the threaded side is facing different directions. I understand the thread is welded and won't come undone, but my mind just does it the same way each time. No matter if I'm using locking or non locking. Never even thought about that until now.

:lol8:

[jman]

Myth #2

"Do not "Aussie" rappel (face down) as it also turns the belt into the sole life support component. If entangled or caught in this position you may have only 1 minute 20 seconds of hanging in freefall in this position before blackout, followed by death. The exception: highly trained SWAT team members using gear designed for this technique and for very specific reasons."

That's interesting. I know a few people who Aussie and never complained...hmm.

[trackrunner]

found the tech tips section on washing rope interesting

http://onrope1.com/RopeWashing.htm

[ratagonia]

found the tech tips section on washing rope interesting

http://onrope1.com/RopeWashing.htm

Remember these guys are CAVERS, and rarely pull their ropes through rings. Making the last 4 inches of your rope big and hard could be detrimental to getting them back after the rappel.

Tom :moses:

[trackrunner]

found the tech tips section on washing rope interesting

http://onrope1.com/RopeWashing.htm

Remember these guys are CAVERS, and rarely pull their ropes through rings. Making the last 4 inches of your rope big and hard could be detrimental to getting them back after the rappel.

Tom :moses:

yes, I also thought it would be hard to pass through the rap device if the rope was set to length

[Bo_Beck]

[b]Myth # 20: The Rule of 12 applies to both high line tensioning and haul systems.

The rule actually says that no haul system should exceed 12 people hauling or mechanical advantage of 12 to 1 or any combination of the two. i.e. 3 people pulling a 4 to 1

[oldno7]

great post--Thanks Bo

[Iceaxe]

Now that we have some major turbo-boost speed back in Bogley with the new server maybe we can talk about some of the interesting subjects that were skipped over........

Myth #5: Dressing a knot makes the knot stronger.

Truth: Dressing a knot allows the knot to be easily inspectable, not necessarily stronger. This allows for easy verification that the knot is tied correctly.

For example: A Figure 9 when tied right is both stronger and easier to untie then a figure 8, yet it takes substantially more scrutiny to discern that it is tied correctly. Because of this most rescue teams opt to use a Figure 8 over a Figure 9.

Well dressed knots might not be stronger.... but for canyoneering purposes I do know that a well dressed overhand or figure 8 requires a higher load before the knot will capsize (roll).... which is probably the weak point you are looking for when rappeling....

And here is the test data to back that up:
http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/EDK.html

:cool2:

[rcwild]

The rule of 12 sort of is mis-stated here. They give no reason for this rule. First of all, a Kootenay Highline should only be pre-tensioned with one person (max 2) on a 2:1 until the load arrives at mid-span. Full tension is then possible once and only once the load has arrived at mid-span! Max force on the system (anchors, components) is achieved when the load is at mid span.

Bo, what reason is there for max tension when the load ARRIVES at mid-span? Seems it really wouldn't be necessary until the load is returning from mid-span and then only to help get the load up over the edge.

[kaptain]

Myth or not - don't walk on my rope. It could be hazardous to your health.

[Bo_Beck]

The rule of 12 sort of is mis-stated here. They give no reason for this rule. First of all, a Kootenay Highline should only be pre-tensioned with one person (max 2) on a 2:1 until the load arrives at mid-span. Full tension is then possible once and only once the load has arrived at mid-span! Max force on the system (anchors, components) is achieved when the load is at mid span.

Bo, what reason is there for max tension when the load ARRIVES at mid-span? Seems it really wouldn't be necessary until the load is returning from mid-span and then only to help get the load up over the edge.

There really is not a reason to use max tension at mid span or anytime unless it would be needed to clear an obstacle. I suggest that a highline should not be tensioned at maximum (2 pullers on a 6:1) prior to the load being introduced to mid span. An example of this would be set forth in a highline we run from the tunnel window to the opposite side of Pine Creek near the Canyon Overlook Trail. Generally we use a Norwegian Reeve. The bottom of the last rappel falls approximately at mid-span. It only requires that we pretension the highline, stop at midspan, lower on the reeve to the bottom of the last rappel, package the litter and then begin the raise back up to the trackline. At this point, now with a 2kn+ load we can now tension the trackline to its max. allowable of 2 on a 6:1. This gives us the 10:1 SSSF and also helps a bit with the clearance of bringing the attendant and patient through the tunnel window. No...no need to tension a trackline to its max. unless trying to gain clearance for some reason. Sometimes it is wise to use multiple tracklines if clearance becomes an issue.