Bogleyfest Sunday - Pine Creek Canyon

[Deathcricket]

*** I

[Ryebrye]

Nice TR.

Unless keyhole got a hell of a lot bigger than the last time I did it, I think you put a couple of your pine creek pics in this thread :)

:roflol:

[Deathcricket]

Nice TR.

Unless keyhole got a hell of a lot bigger than the last time I did it, I think you put a couple of your pine creek pics in this thread :)

:roflol:

Ahh man did I screw it up? These should all be Pine Creek and the other thread should be entirely Keyhole... Correct me if you see any keyhole pics in this thread. Then I'll move them to the other one, no problem. I just wrote up one trip report for the day but split them cause bogley is laggin hardcore.

[Ryebrye]

Ahh man did I screw it up? These should all be Pine Creek and the other thread should be entirely Keyhole... Correct me if you see any keyhole pics in this thread. Then I'll move them to the other one, no problem. I just wrote up one trip report for the day but split them cause bogley is laggin hardcore.

Ah, nope. When I saw it the topic said "Keyhole" so I was thinking they were all keyhole pics. I was actually thinking "why didn't he take any pictures of the debris" - but yeah, these are all pine creek.

[theking648]

Wow couldn't have said it better... all though i thought pine creek was colder than keyhole.

Also I would like to thank Bo and Trackrunner. trackrunner kept me cool and calm at the top of the last rappel in pine creek and Bo helped me down the last rappel I love you guys.

the hike out of pine creek is what really got me. all the bouldering and climbing up sand and over rockgardens just killed my knees. '

:2thumbs:

[tanya]

Nice! :2thumbs:

[Cirrus2000]

Sweet! Looks like a great time. Haven't looked at the Keyhole photos yet, but I sure love that little canyon. Done it twice so far, and thought it was, like, the best half-hour in Zion!!! (I should probably put that in the Keyhole thread.)

I can't get over the water in Pine Creek. I've only done it once, on my own in April, and it was SO dry. Only about 2 very short swims, and a few wades. Mostly just sand. At the bottom of the cathedral, I was able to pull the rope while standing knee deep. I look forward to trying it out when it's this wet.

Thanks for the great vids & pics, Jacob! Nice job reporting & documenting!

[Deeps]

Beaten to the punch again. The trip report stands. We moved fairly quickly through Pine Creek with our reduced compliment of canyoneers. More time for photography.

I'd like to thank Paul (ststephen) for lugging the video camera in it's waterproof housing. He took it on for Keyhole so I could bring the SLR along, and even after Robin and Aaron split he sherpa'd up. I haven't edited the videos down yet, but some of the images in the link below are pulled from the tape.

Only camera mishap was user error - at some point setting up the second to last rappel a setting was botched and the images I took were blown out. Thankfully I caught it before the Cathedral. OC Paul (what's your username here, Paul?) took a turn with the SLR and took some sweet shots. Thanks for covering me on that, Paul(s).

Pine Creek was what I was looking for on this trip. The light beams in pools of water and the final rappel were a great cap to the weekend. Thanks again to Bo and Shaun (and everyone) for being such great company.

Link to see lots of photos: HERE. (http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell#100040&view=mosaic&bgcolor=black&sel=0)

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0082/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0100/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0192/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0273/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0257/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0170/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0331/web.jpg

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0248/web.jpg

[tanya]

You are talented with that camera Dean Paul! :2thumbs:

[Last Child]

Very cool!

[Deathcricket]

Oh man, your pics blow mine outta the water! Especially the light chamber area. None of the pics I took came out nearly as awesome as yours. Was great to meet ya and hope we get to adventure again. Thanks so much for tossing those pics up.
:2thumbs:

[James_B_Wads2000]

:clap: Go Team Stearns!! :clap: :clap: Go Team Stearns!! :clap: :clap: Go Team Stearns!! :clap:
http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0100/web.jpg
Link to Team Stearns Picture Post (http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8138)



James

[asdf]

great shot :2thumbs:

[Deathcricket]

FYI: These wetsuits I'm modeling are on sale right now at sportsmans warehouse for $37.99 (reg $44.99?). Which is pretty much unbeatable IMO for a full. It's only 2-3 ml I imagine, really thin, but for zion canyons is about perfect. I won't lie my hands were shaking the entire time as evidence in the film, but protection to weight ratio is perfect.

I believe it was Iceaxe who mentioned it first so gotta give him the props though. I'm just the messenger.

[Iceaxe]

FYI: These wetsuits I'm modeling are on sale right now at sportsmans warehouse for $37.99 (reg $44.99?).

Which Sportsman's Warehouse? I went to the Midvale store last week and they only had kids and small. But they had some killer prices on them.

I need some mediums and maybe a large to outfit a group for the Black Hole. If anyone knows of a Sportsmens Warehouse with those sizes let me know.

Go Team Stearns!

.

[Sombeech]

http://gallery.me.com/deanpaulrussell/100040/DSC_0248/web.jpg

Awesome shot

[Cirrus2000]

Incredible photos, Deeps! They're some of the best rap and portrait shots I've seen on here - nice!

[ratagonia]

Incredible photos, Deeps! They're some of the best rap and portrait shots I've seen on here - nice!

:2thumbs:

Tom

[Deathcricket]

Which Sportsman's Warehouse? I went to the Midvale store last week and they only had kids and small. But they had some killer prices on them.

I need some mediums and maybe a large to outfit a group for the Black Hole. If anyone knows of a Sportsmens Warehouse with those sizes let me know.

Go Team Stearns!

.

The one in Saint George. If you like I can go scout it out for ya. But if you're buying 3 you can just call them and get free shipping to your residence from any store that has them in stock (over $100 = free shipping).

Thanks again for the tip bro, same price as a rental but I get to keep it. Trackrunner had a good little trick of putting it on under his clothes, so from now on I will do that too to keep it from getting all torn up.

Go team Stearns!

[Deeps]

Thanks for the kudos, but it really was a team effort. Paul from Orange was shooting with the camera as well and Paul/ststephen were working the video. It was great having other photo geeks along.

(And I had a ginormous 80-200 lens along for the ride that really helped.)

[trackrunner]

Incredible photos, Deeps! They're some of the best rap and portrait shots I've seen on here - nice!

:2thumbs:

Tom

Dean Paul awesome photos

:hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief:

[James_B_Wads2000]

FYI: These wetsuits I'm modeling are on sale right now at sportsmans warehouse for $37.99 (reg $44.99?).

Which Sportsman's Warehouse? I went to the Midvale store last week and they only had kids and small. But they had some killer prices on them.

I need some mediums and maybe a large to outfit a group for the Black Hole. If anyone knows of a Sportsmens Warehouse with those sizes let me know.

Go Team Stearns!

.

I have two Team Stearns XL wetsuits in my garage. One has been used a bunch of times and the other is brand new. You can have them both if you want them.



James

[DiscGo]

Holy cow Deeps. What kind of camera are you using and how are you taking such clear, sharp pictures? Those shots were fantastic.

[Scott Card]

Incredible photos, Deeps! They're some of the best rap and portrait shots I've seen on here - nice!X3

[Deeps]

Holy cow Deeps. What kind of camera are you using and how are you taking such clear, sharp pictures? Those shots were fantastic.

There are two things I did right:

First, it's a Nikon D-80 with an 80-200 really really really nice and really really really heavy lens. I was shooting in aperture priority at 2.8 for the most part. Disadvantage is you need to be freaking far away from the subject to get the winning shots, which tight slots complicate. At full zoom the background turns to butter and you get excellent depth of field with this lens. I also had the more common 18-135. It's okay, but needs more light than the 80-200.

Second, I handed the camera to Paul at some point and got it back with great images. :)

I love the pictures of Bo at belay. Some people observe that dog owners begin to share physical similarities with their pets over time. Bo seems to be taking on the physical characteristics of the canyon in these shots... His skin tone and texture are a match to the sandstone behind him. The guy is a canyon's best friend. Too cool.

[theking648]

hey... I think trackrunner is holding out on us... I seem to remember a group photo in pine creek... :roll:

[trackrunner]

hey... I think trackrunner is holding out on us... I seem to remember a group photo in pine creek... :roll:

Yes I'm lazy right now. I'll get it up sometime.

[Cirrus2000]

I'll get it up sometime.
They got pills for that...


:popcorn:

[trackrunner]

I'll get it up sometime.
They got pills for that...


:popcorn:

that's what she said :haha:

Canadians have pills for posting pics on a forum? Wow, you Canadians with your socialized medical care really are over treating minor diseases and under treating major diseases. j/k

:popcorn:

[Cirrus2000]

Canadians have pills for posting pics on a forum? Wow, you Canadians with your socialized medical care really are over treating minor diseases and under treating major diseases. j/k

Minor?!? This is Bogley - posting pics on this forum is crucial! :haha:

Always looking forward to more... :2thumbs:

[moab mark]

FYI: These wetsuits I'm modeling are on sale right now at sportsmans warehouse for $37.99 (reg $44.99?). Which is pretty much unbeatable IMO for a full. It's only 2-3 ml I imagine, really thin, but for zion canyons is about perfect. I won't lie my hands were shaking the entire time as evidence in the film, but protection to weight ratio is perfect.

I believe it was Iceaxe who mentioned it first so gotta give him the props though. I'm just the messenger.

What is that serious looking device in your hand?

[Deathcricket]

What is that serious looking device in your hand?

Ahh that is my Petzl STOP.( http://www.rei.com/product/471280 ). It also doubles as weapon in case of bear attack, haha. I brought it for a couple reasons, the main one being if you let go of it for any reason you won't go down. You come to an immediate stop, there is a brake you have to squeeze to make it go. So it's completely safe if you get knocked on the head, faint, set your friction wrong, or gawd knows what. I was doing Englestead for the first time and a little paranoid since the highest I'd done was 180 feet, and I saw the vid of the other guy of course. I'm a "better safe than sorry" kinda guy. It's also pretty handy if you're a photo nut and want to take some pics on the way down. Just let go and you stop, pull out your camera and take pics. I really didn't do that on these trips cause I always felt we were kinda in a hurry to go down and I had people waiting on me, so didn't want to lag. Another thing I found out later, that it works really good for swimming disconnects. And there were a lot in Zion it turns out. Your device always stays connected since you don't have to loosen you beener to detach from the rope. And the final nice surprise, it doesn't twist the rope for some reason which didn't bother me until I went back to using my ATC and had a twisty rope at the end.

Couple major disadvantages: It only does single strands, so I brought my ATC in case we ever had to double rap. It got clogged with dead leaves and bark and sand (in Keyhole) and worked like crap until I knew exactly where to look for the blockage. But about 4 raps through pine creek it worked absoletely horrid and I couldn't understand why. Wasn't smooth basically it would eiither go way to fast or stop and was really hard to get the brake loose and started again. Now that I know where to look by the adjustment screw for blockage though it won't trouble me again but it bugged me for the longest time.

It's reminds me of my GRI GRI I use for climbing. If you've ever used one of those it's very similar in setup, just has the brake permanently out instead of folding in. But I highly recommend it, my first weekend using it and really enjoyed.

:2thumbs:

[ratagonia]

What is that serious looking device in your hand?

Ahh that is my Petzl STOP.( http://www.rei.com/product/471280 ). It also doubles as weapon in case of bear attack, haha. I brought it for a couple reasons, the main one being if you let go of it for any reason you won't go down. You come to an immediate stop, there is a brake you have to squeeze to make it go. So it's completely safe if you get knocked on the head, faint, set your friction wrong, or gawd knows what. I was doing Englestead for the first time and a little paranoid since the highest I'd done was 180 feet, and I saw the vid of the other guy of course. I'm a "better safe than sorry" kinda guy. It's also pretty handy if you're a photo nut and want to take some pics on the way down. Just let go and you stop, pull out your camera and take pics. I really didn't do that on these trips cause I always felt we were kinda in a hurry to go down and I had people waiting on me, so didn't want to lag. Another thing I found out later, that it works really good for swimming disconnects. And there were a lot in Zion it turns out. Your device always stays connected since you don't have to loosen you beener to detach from the rope. And the final nice surprise, it doesn't twist the rope for some reason which didn't bother me until I went back to using my ATC and had a twisty rope at the end.

Couple major disadvantages: It only does single strands, so I brought my ATC in case we ever had to double rap. It got clogged with dead leaves and bark and sand (in Keyhole) and worked like crap until I knew exactly where to look for the blockage. But about 4 raps through pine creek it worked absoletely horrid and I couldn't understand why. Wasn't smooth basically it would eiither go way to fast or stop and was really hard to get the brake loose and started again. Now that I know where to look by the adjustment screw for blockage though it won't trouble me again but it bugged me for the longest time.

It's reminds me of my GRI GRI I use for climbing. If you've ever used one of those it's very similar in setup, just has the brake permanently out instead of folding in. But I highly recommend it, my first weekend using it and really enjoyed.

:2thumbs:

I use a STOP for Heaps, but that is about it. Works good on the Imlay 9mm rope. On the Imlay 8mm and 8.3mm, it would be a SLOW.

It does heat up on the long rappel and becomes painful to hold from the sharp edges. So, some good some bad. Best thing about Heaps rap - it is twice as fast as any other method. CAN haul the STOP up with the top end of the 300' x 9mm rope.

Tom

[moab mark]

What is that serious looking device in your hand?

Ahh that is my Petzl STOP.( http://www.rei.com/product/471280 ). It also doubles as weapon in case of bear attack, haha. I brought it for a couple reasons, the main one being if you let go of it for any reason you won't go down. You come to an immediate stop, there is a brake you have to squeeze to make it go. So it's completely safe if you get knocked on the head, faint, set your friction wrong, or gawd knows what. I was doing Englestead for the first time and a little paranoid since the highest I'd done was 180 feet, and I saw the vid of the other guy of course. I'm a "better safe than sorry" kinda guy. It's also pretty handy if you're a photo nut and want to take some pics on the way down. Just let go and you stop, pull out your camera and take pics. I really didn't do that on these trips cause I always felt we were kinda in a hurry to go down and I had people waiting on me, so didn't want to lag. Another thing I found out later, that it works really good for swimming disconnects. And there were a lot in Zion it turns out. Your device always stays connected since you don't have to loosen you beener to detach from the rope. And the final nice surprise, it doesn't twist the rope for some reason which didn't bother me until I went back to using my ATC and had a twisty rope at the end.

Couple major disadvantages: It only does single strands, so I brought my ATC in case we ever had to double rap. It got clogged with dead leaves and bark and sand (in Keyhole) and worked like crap until I knew exactly where to look for the blockage. But about 4 raps through pine creek it worked absoletely horrid and I couldn't understand why. Wasn't smooth basically it would eiither go way to fast or stop and was really hard to get the brake loose and started again. Now that I know where to look by the adjustment screw for blockage though it won't trouble me again but it bugged me for the longest time.

It's reminds me of my GRI GRI I use for climbing. If you've ever used one of those it's very similar in setup, just has the brake permanently out instead of folding in. But I highly recommend it, my first weekend using it and really enjoyed.

:2thumbs:

Interesting, does it come with a mule to haul it? When you were having problems with sticking etc due to guck could it not let you drop If it had enough guck in it?

Tom, why do you a different device for the end of heaps and not englestead?

Mark

[ratagonia]

What is that serious looking device in your hand?

Ahh that is my Petzl STOP.( http://www.rei.com/product/471280 ). It also doubles as weapon in case of bear attack, haha. I brought it for a couple reasons, the main one being if you let go of it for any reason you won't go down. You come to an immediate stop, there is a brake you have to squeeze to make it go. So it's completely safe if you get knocked on the head, faint, set your friction wrong, or gawd knows what. I was doing Englestead for the first time and a little paranoid since the highest I'd done was 180 feet, and I saw the vid of the other guy of course. I'm a "better safe than sorry" kinda guy. It's also pretty handy if you're a photo nut and want to take some pics on the way down. Just let go and you stop, pull out your camera and take pics. I really didn't do that on these trips cause I always felt we were kinda in a hurry to go down and I had people waiting on me, so didn't want to lag. Another thing I found out later, that it works really good for swimming disconnects. And there were a lot in Zion it turns out. Your device always stays connected since you don't have to loosen you beener to detach from the rope. And the final nice surprise, it doesn't twist the rope for some reason which didn't bother me until I went back to using my ATC and had a twisty rope at the end.

Couple major disadvantages: It only does single strands, so I brought my ATC in case we ever had to double rap. It got clogged with dead leaves and bark and sand (in Keyhole) and worked like crap until I knew exactly where to look for the blockage. But about 4 raps through pine creek it worked absoletely horrid and I couldn't understand why. Wasn't smooth basically it would eiither go way to fast or stop and was really hard to get the brake loose and started again. Now that I know where to look by the adjustment screw for blockage though it won't trouble me again but it bugged me for the longest time.

It's reminds me of my GRI GRI I use for climbing. If you've ever used one of those it's very similar in setup, just has the brake permanently out instead of folding in. But I highly recommend it, my first weekend using it and really enjoyed.

:2thumbs:

Interesting, does it come with a mule to haul it? When you were having problems with sticking etc due to guck could it not let you drop If it had enough guck in it?

Tom, why do you a different device for the end of heaps and not englestead?

Mark

Engelstead - feet against the wall, beginning of the day, usually with beginners/intermediates, and I have to train them in how to do a big rap, I go last but it would be unfair to use better technology, it is too heavy to carry through the canyon.

Heaps - totally free hanging, end of the day, tired, beer and pizza are waiting in town, I go last so who cares, it is in the bag with the rope so I don't have to carry it through the canyon.

The "return spring" is built into the mechanism, so it would tend to get jammed up 'closed' rather than open.

Tom

[Deathcricket]

Oh yeah that's another good point Tom has. Using his rope in Englestead it would come to a crawl and not completely STOP, hehe. I did find out the next day through experimentation you could pull the lever out and it would pinch the rope to stop, But once you let go of the pinch it would start crawling along again. To be fair it does say in really big lettering stamped on the side to not use it for smaller than 9mil rope too. :)

Heat - I didn't notice the heat on my fingers doing the big drop in Englestead, but I did notice it on the 2nd rappell after. It took a while for the heat to migrate into the hand parts of the device. It wasn't uncomfortable but I can understand doing drop after drop it would get nasty without a water source to dunk it into.

Weight - It only weighs 326 grams which is super light, For comparison, a locking caribiner weighs 226 grams. Good tradeoff IMO.

Dirt - I think the chances are really slim you could lock it up completely with debris, but I never say never. we could consult Tom on this but I would say about the same as using any device. There is only a hole slightly bigger than the rope so even an ATC could technically get clogged? Here is a pic, you can see even now there is a little bit of sand in there. I left that friction control screw at the factory set level, I imagine as it wears down the problem will occur less often since the ridge there will be less pronounced. The brake is on the bottom and it opens quit wide. So I imagine if something was lodged in there it would eventually become wide enough to pass it? Interesting thought though!

** Tom** I did have a quick question for you then since you've used one of these. I noticed there is a hole on the hammer where you could put a clip in and lock it in the "open" position where the brake couldn't be used. Any reason you know why you would want to lock it completely open? That would seem to defeat the entire purpose of the device to me. I took another picture and pointed it out for reference.

[ratagonia]

The Technical Notice 2 MB pdf:

http://petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/D09%20STOP%20D09800-H.pdf

indicates it is a way to defeat the self-locking mechanism, thus allowing you to use it like a big normal rappel device.

Tom

[Deathcricket]

Ahh this is great stuff, thank you!

:hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief:

[DiscGo]

Once again Deeps, those were amazing pictures! Thanks for the response.

[moab mark]

DeathCricket,
If you have a chance could take a picture of the device rigged with a rope.

Mark

[Deathcricket]

I do have a couple already on file. They are kinda crappy but you should be able to make them out. Also, this is massive 11 mil rope. But should be enough for you to get the general idea. If it doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll run out on my lunch break and snap some for ya. The lower part attached to the lever rotates and the upper portion is fixed in place. When it has actual weight on it and I'm hanging off a cliff, it will turn more sideways to the caribiner and the lever will stick out quite a bit more than you see here.

I was actually thinking about what Tom said last night about locking it open. I still think it might generate enough friction without the brake to make it an oversized, overpriced, belay device. I'm going to test it out today when I go rock climbing on a 30 foot cliff. Morbidly curious, hehe. Still not sure why someone would do that, but if I try it a couple times maybe I can understand the reasoning.
:rockon:

[ratagonia]

I do have a couple already on file. They are kinda crappy but you should be able to make them out. Also, this is massive 11 mil rope. But should be enough for you to get the general idea. If it doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll run out on my lunch break and snap some for ya. The lower part attached to the lever rotates and the upper portion is fixed in place. When it has actual weight on it and I'm hanging off a cliff, it will turn more sideways to the caribiner and the lever will stick out quite a bit more than you see here.

I was actually thinking about what Tom said last night about locking it open. I still think it might generate enough friction without the brake to make it an oversized, overpriced, belay device. I'm going to test it out today when I go rock climbing on a 30 foot cliff. Morbidly curious, hehe. Still not sure why someone would do that, but if I try it a couple times maybe I can understand the reasoning.
:rockon:

With the rotation locked off, it works well as a rappel device, holding the 'brake hand side' with your hand to control the speed.

But as a belay device - not so good. Really hard to feed it out, which is the MAIN thing you DO, belaying.

Nice pics...

Tom

[trackrunner]

Canadians have pills for posting pics on a forum? Wow, you Canadians with your socialized medical care really are over treating minor diseases and under treating major diseases. j/k

Minor?!? This is Bogley - posting pics on this forum is crucial! :haha:

Always looking forward to more... :2thumbs:

OK I went to the doctor and got some pills for posting pics. F*&%en HMO wont cover it :frustrated:

Enjoy

PS. Mods looks like this thread needs to be split into two threads: a TR and petzle stop threads. Thanks

[Deathcricket]

Love the group shot!! That came out great.

** Note to self, get gym membership. **

:haha:

[Deeps]

Nice, Shaun!

That rappel is the one I blew out all the images on.

Jacob, my note to myself on the group shot is 'use gym membership'.

[sarahlizzy]

I can't help but notice you guys all have full wetsuits. Am doing Keyhole on Saturday and Pine Creek on Monday, and have a shortie and neoprene socks. Am I likely to wish I'd brought something more substantial?

BTW, awesome photos!

[trackrunner]

Deepends on how cold tolerent you are. Water wasn't warm. my hads werent covered and got cold swimming but warmed up out of the water.

The one guy that did use a shorty bowed out after keyhole. Don't know why: cold, time wise, somthing else.

[sarahlizzy]

Deepends on how cold tolerent you are. Water wasn't warm. my hads werent covered and got cold swimming but warmed up out of the water.

The one guy that did use a shorty bowed out after keyhole. Don't know why: cold, time wise, somthing else.

OK, that doesn't sound too bad then. Thanks!

[ratagonia]

I can't help but notice you guys all have full wetsuits. Am doing Keyhole on Saturday and Pine Creek on Monday, and have a shortie and neoprene socks. Am I likely to wish I'd brought something more substantial?

BTW, awesome photos!

Yes.

You are welcome to come up here and borrow some wet suits.

Here= 2625 S State Street (Highway 89) in Mt Carmel. Drive out the East Entrance then 12 miles to Route 89 (Mount Carmel Junction). Turn left (north). Drive 2 miles to the next 'town'. My house is a small white and blue house next to the road across from the Stone Schoolhouse. Park at the Stone Schoolhouse. The carport has lots of ropes hanging there.

Wetsuits are in a white cabinet on the back porch. You can try them on inside. Scott might be here packing boxes.

Return wetsuits when done. Inside out, Hang them on the line and spray down with the hose, then just leave them there.

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

You are welcome to come up here and borrow some wet suits.

Have you seen my puppy?

Ha ha...

-Brian in SLC

[sarahlizzy]

You are welcome to come up here and borrow some wet suits.

Have you seen my puppy?


:lol8:

Tom, thanks - will talk to the others about it (assuming they're all awake after doing the graveyard shift at the backcountry window). Do you have, er, women-shaped ones?

Thanks for the rope loan, btw. Since we got Mystery permits, I'm expecting them to come in very useful tomorrow, although we'll probably use the 8.3mm one as a pull cord...

[Deathcricket]

I can't help but notice you guys all have full wetsuits. Am doing Keyhole on Saturday and Pine Creek on Monday, and have a shortie and neoprene socks. Am I likely to wish I'd brought something more substantial?

BTW, awesome photos!

If you want my advice I would suggest taking Tom up on his generous offer. It was colder than I could possibly imagine and I always do Subway with no wetsuit in the summer. This is completely different. But the nice thing about doing Keyhole first is it's very short. Only an hour maybe an hour and a half depending on group size? So if you do decide to go with the shorty, you'll have a good impression of what Pine Creek is and won't be stuck in a long canyon with hypothermia the next day.

Also, I'd rather you had fond memories of your vacation and not of being miserably cold. We want you to come back next year to Zion or Bogleyfest.
:five:

[Deeps]

I know people are different, but I don't think a wetsuit here will be too cumbersome. It made the canyon enjoyable because I could take time through it and not shiver when coming out of a swimmer section.

Leaving to the car isn't awful, and there is a good place to take the wetsuit off and pack it up prior to the final two rappels.

[ststephen]

We did catch up to a group of young canyon studs and one studette who had no cold water pro at all. They said "being cold is part of the fun". But I was very glad to have rented to 4/3mm suit. I was toasty except for my hands which did get cold at the end of the longer swims.

Also note that Bo felt so strongly about the need for cold water pro that he went back into town to get suits for a couple of the folks who hadn't brought them.

[sarahlizzy]

Thank you so much, Tom. Scott sorted us all out, apart from one of our group who's insisting on being the control by wearing her shortie. Very grateful indeed. :five:

[ratagonia]

Thank you so much, Tom. Scott sorted us all out, apart from one of our group who's insisting on being the control by wearing her shortie. Very grateful indeed. :five:

Good to hear. Yes, lady-shaped wetsuits work much better...

:moses:

[sarahlizzy]

Thank you so much, Tom. Scott sorted us all out, apart from one of our group who's insisting on being the control by wearing her shortie. Very grateful indeed. :five:

Good to hear. Yes, lady-shaped wetsuits work much better...

:moses:

A couple of us did end up with the men's cut, but thankfully they turned out to not be too constricting in all the wrong places! :haha:

[Deathcricket]

A couple of us did end up with the men's cut, but thankfully they turned out to not be too constricting in all the wrong places! :haha:

Please report back your observations when you get a chance. Although if a group of girls says "wasn't too bad" and I say "was hella cold" it could be a huge blow to my ego, haha.
:lol8:

[sarahlizzy]

A couple of us did end up with the men's cut, but thankfully they turned out to not be too constricting in all the wrong places! :haha:

Please report back your observations when you get a chance. Although if a group of girls says "wasn't too bad" and I say "was hella cold" it could be a huge blow to my ego, haha.
:lol8:

Did Keyhole earlier today (decided to give Echo a miss - most of us were not up to hiking up there after the long day yesterday), with Zoe, Sylvia and Joyce. Myself and Sylvia wore full wetsuits and neoprene socks. Joyce wore a full wetsuit, normal socks and gloves, and Zoe wore a shortie wetsuit and socks.

Apparently Keyhole flashed yesterday, which may have made it warmer or something, but I found it very comfortable, as did Sylvia. Joyce complained of cold feet. Zoe, in a shortie wetsuit, also said she felt perfectly comfortable.

Here's the photo I took of Zoe, Joyce and Sylvia (left to right) at the end:

http://www.sarahlizzy.com/ZJSKeyholeEnd.jpg

[Cirrus2000]

Mmm, organic-fest! It probably wasn't any warmer than usual - deathcricket just can't handle a little cold! :haha:

[Deathcricket]

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Ok I stand corrected! I must just be warm blooded and can't hack it, hahha. But the blow to my ego is so worth seeing that awesome picture. Thanks for posting it.

:five:

[zoeimogen]

Sarah forgot to mention the group in front of us, whom she christened "Cargo Cult" Canyoneers. They had some equipment (A piece of rope of suspect origin) and knew some terminology. ("On Belay!") Other than that, they seemed to be just using a knot block on the rope then using it as an assist for downclimbing all the raps...

[sarahlizzy]

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Ok I stand corrected! I must just be warm blooded and can't hack it, hahha. But the blow to my ego is so worth seeing that awesome picture. Thanks for posting it.

*teehee* Don't take it personally - most of us are English and so being cold and damp is a way of life for us :naughty:

Swimming through that stuff at the end was ... gross!

[Randi]

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Ok I stand corrected! I must just be warm blooded and can't hack it, hahha. But the blow to my ego is so worth seeing that awesome picture. Thanks for posting it.

*teehee* Don't take it personally - most of us are English and so being cold and damp is a way of life for us :naughty:

Swimming through that stuff at the end was ... gross!

Looks like you girls had a fun time!

Oh yeah, the gross organic debris pool! Always exciting! :mrgreen:
The freakiest part of that to me is that I can't help but imagine that there might be dead things floating around in there, or sumburged just below the surface! Yikes...sometimes you actually see them! Mice and such. ICK!

I'm with the "cold tolerant" crowd and have gone through Keyhole without a wetsuit & didn't have a problem. My daughter Sarah actually went through one year in a bathing suit! I don't know how she did it, but she managed to stem most of the wet sections.

[moab mark]

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Ok I stand corrected! I must just be warm blooded and can't hack it, hahha. But the blow to my ego is so worth seeing that awesome picture. Thanks for posting it.

*teehee* Don't take it personally - most of us are English and so being cold and damp is a way of life for us :naughty:

Swimming through that stuff at the end was ... gross!

Looks like you girls had a fun time!

Oh yeah, the gross organic debris pool! Always exciting! :mrgreen:
The freakiest part of that to me is that I can't help but imagine that there might be dead things floating around in there, or sumburged just below the surface! Yikes...sometimes you actually see them! Mice and such. ICK!

I'm with the "cold tolerant" crowd and have gone through Keyhole without a wetsuit & didn't have a problem. My daughter Sarah actually went through one year in a bathing suit! I don't know how she did it, but she managed to stem most of the wet sections.

We were going thru that gunk one time and a snake kept sticking his head up. Did not like that at all. We were all in swim suits not wet suits. I DO NOT LIKE SNAKES.

Mark

[Deeps]

I saw a dead, bloated toad in Keyhole during Bogleyfest and screamed like an 8 year old.

I'm not sure how I would have handled a snake. Racer? No problem. Rattler? Freeeeeaaaakkk Ouuuuuuuuut! I ASSumed snakes wouldn't be in the cold water. How does that work?

[ststephen]

I saw a dead, bloated toad in Keyhole during Bogleyfest and screamed like an 8 year old.


According to Aaron you screamed like an 8 year old GIRL! :roflol:

[Randi]

We were going thru that gunk one time and a snake kept sticking his head up. Did not like that at all. We were all in swim suits not wet suits. I DO NOT LIKE SNAKES.

Mark

I LOVE snakes!!! :2thumbs:

I did a canyon here in Calif. a couple of months ago which was teaming with snakes! And salamanders, and frogs and these cool (but dangerous) water bugs! I loved swimming with all these creatures (except the water bugs), they scared me!

Here are some pictures of some of the creatures...

PS: I tried to catch the snakes but they were too fast!

[trackrunner]

bump

So I finally caved and got a picasa account.

Here are all my Starfish/Pine pics from this day.

http://picasaweb.google.com/trackrunner83/BogleyFestStarfishPine?feat=directlink

[moab mark]

bump

So I finally caved and got a picasa account.

Here are all my Starfish/Pine pics from this day.

http://picasaweb.google.com/trackrunner83/BogleyFestStarfishPine?feat=directlink

Shaun,

A couple of those pics with the light shining in :hail2thechief: