Condition of middle Echo Canyon

[sarahlizzy]

I see from the Zion permits site that they effectively have a one week rolling closure of middle Echo, because of the icy conditions in there. Each day, the closure advances by another day.

Does anyone have any idea of what the condition of middle Echo currently is, whether the ice is melting at any significant rate, and thus whether we'll see the canyon reopened any time soon?

[asdf]

last I heard it was full of snakes and until they move on... no dice.

[sarahlizzy]

last I heard it was full of snakes and until they move on... no dice.

Aww, I wanna see the snakies! :treehugger:

[Ryebrye]

The report I saw:


Report from staff:
6/17/09
The snow is still there in Echo - about 10 ft high, blocking the width of
the canyon and very unstable and rotton underneath. It is tilted and looks
like a snow ledge that slid down from higher up. It would be possible to
get up on top of the barrier with some difficulty (but without equipment),
but unwise I would think. Hiking up from the bottom I could go quite a ways
(about half an hour or more, a few swims) before coming to the snow


That being said... I wonder if I showed up to the backcountry desk wearing this:

http://www.flameengineering.com/Assets/torch_images/SM_Back_Pack_Kit.jpg

if they would issue me get a permit :)

http://www.flameengineering.com/Back-pack_Kits.html

[Scott Card]

That being said... I wonder if I showed up to the backcountry desk wearing this:

http://www.flameengineering.com/Assets/torch_images/SM_Back_Pack_Kit.jpg

if they would issue me get a permit :)

http://www.flameengineering.com/Back-pack_Kits.html

20 bucks if you do :lol8: :2thumbs:

[Iceaxe]

:lol8:

http://anthillonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/ghostbusters.jpg

[Ryebrye]

Yeah, 3 torches would be a better idea. How long could snow stand up to 400,000 BTU torches?

The info I posted above was from the yahoo canyons group. RAM on there also posted some background info on WHY the canyon is closed.

They had 2 SAR incidents in early may with people getting stuck by a 30-foot wall of snow.


Requests for assistance ensued and the SAR teams performed a series of 100-foot raises from the same spot in each incident


Rangers will periodically check canyon conditions and will reopen it to recreational use when the snow and ice obstacles have melted out to a degree which is passable by canyoneers of average ability with standard canyoneering equipment.

it's kind of a shame that they close the canyon. I really want to go down there now and face the 10-foot wall of snow. I'm sure I wouldn't need SAR because I'd at least leave fixed lines to jug back up if I got to a spot where I was stuck, and I'd wear a dry suit....

I take it there is no chance you could get a backcountry ranger to issue you a permit to be the one to do the checking, huh?

[RAM]

it's kind of a shame that they close the canyon. I really want to go down there now and face the 10-foot wall of snow. I'm sure I wouldn't need SAR because I'd at least leave fixed lines to jug back up if I got to a spot where I was stuck, and I'd wear a dry suit....

I take it there is no chance you could get a backcountry ranger to issue you a permit to be the one to do the checking, huh?


The good news is the snow is likely gone by now or soon. Also, I don't think they are closing the canyon until they have a trouble, so most years go before the place gets closed......if it gets closed. Snow in Echo is not an every year event. In fact one in four years more the average. Going UP canyon in March is the ticket. You don't need a permit, because there are no raps, so not technical in the classic way and you can't get trapped below raps and pulled ropes and impassable snow below. Going from below offers a good look at how moats are melting out too. To ascend is harder, but the whole package is safer that way.....if you can call having tons of snow, snow destined to collapse, over your head that is.
Ram

[Iceaxe]

The original NPS press release regarding the Echo closure is here:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17283

I wish they would leave Echo open.... it wouldn't be the first time we had done a canyon with iceaxe and crampons.

http://climb-utah.com/SRS/Files/joesvalley1.jpg

And I've noticed we are not the only ones.....

http://www.bogley.com/forum/files/p3_141.jpg

I also remember a few years ago Imlay in winter was all the rage....

:popcorn:

[Don]

Heard a guy say that he had climbed ice on that 300 foot wall in Engelstead. Would've liked to see pictures...

[trackrunner]

Heard a guy say that he had climbed ice on that 300 foot wall in Engelstead. Would've liked to see pictures...

there are some. I think I remember Brian in SLC posted a few look for pics on z cicle on bogley and you should find some

[trackrunner]

Heard a guy say that he had climbed ice on that 300 foot wall in Engelstead. Would've liked to see pictures...

found them

http://picasaweb.google.com/jared.e.campbell/Zicicle20070120#

[Iceaxe]

Here is the link to the complete album of the guys climbing "Zicicle".

http://picasaweb.google.com/jared.e.campbell/Zicicle20070120#

Very impressive. :2thumbs:

Hmmmm.... just a thought..... but I don't think you need a permit to go ice climbing in Zion. :haha:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Q-beIJDpuvA/R1EBWVokrCI/AAAAAAAAB6o/iqE9TlP3NWA/s640/IMG_1849.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Q-beIJDpuvA/R1EBYFokrEI/AAAAAAAAB64/I3ePlHI6gsM/s640/IMG_1864.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Q-beIJDpuvA/R1EBI1okq2I/AAAAAAAAB5E/Zau0b4TWA_E/s640/IMG_1806_adj1.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Dang.... you have to be fast to beat trackrunner..... :frustrated:

[ratagonia]

Here is the link to the complete album of the guys climbing "Zicicle".

http://picasaweb.google.com/jared.e.campbell/Zicicle20070120#

Very impressive. :2thumbs:

Hmmmm.... just a thought..... but I don't think you need a permit to go ice climbing in Zion. :haha:



especially, if the place you are going is not IN the Park.

T

[Iceaxe]

especially, if the place you are going is not IN the Park.

I was thinking more about ice climbing in Echo.... :nod:

I also understand some pretty good icicles form in Orderville Gulch.

[Felicia]

I see from the Zion permits site that they effectively have a one week rolling closure of middle Echo, because of the icy conditions in there. Each day, the closure advances by another day.

Does anyone have any idea of what the condition of middle Echo currently is, whether the ice is melting at any significant rate, and thus whether we'll see the canyon reopened any time soon?


They are checking Echo today, 06/25/09 and status will be avaliable by tomorrow morning.

:popcorn:

[sarahlizzy]

I see from the Zion permits site that they effectively have a one week rolling closure of middle Echo, because of the icy conditions in there. Each day, the closure advances by another day.

Does anyone have any idea of what the condition of middle Echo currently is, whether the ice is melting at any significant rate, and thus whether we'll see the canyon reopened any time soon?


They are checking Echo today, 06/25/09 and status will be avaliable by tomorrow morning.

:popcorn:

Ooh, thanks. Fingers crossed that our booking for the 4th will stand...

[jiveassmother]

The BC desk says that echo is opened. Rangers went through the other day.

[Randi]

The BC desk says that echo is opened. Rangers went through the other day.

I went through with a group on Friday.
No sign at all of snow, dang it!
The water was VERY cold. Dress accordingly! :mrgreen: