Ropes for Mystery

[MiCanyoneer]

I have the following ropes. All 9mm
60ft, 120ft, 200ft

If we want to rappel double. Will the 120ft be long enought after being tied to the 200 ft rope for the last rappel without making the start to difficult to start below the knot?

If we wanted to set up the guided rappel how much rope would be needed?

Does it make since to carry the 60ft rope along with the other 2?

Thanks

[moab mark]

The mystery rappels are less then 120'. We take 2 120's. If going to set up a guided rappel at the springs will take 3 times the length of the rappel if you want to rappel double.
I have never set up a guided rappel at the springs, have seen it done. I would make sure you know what you are doing. The anchor is not exactly in a spot where you want to be experimenting.

MARK

[ratagonia]

I have the following ropes. All 9mm
60ft, 120ft, 200ft

If we want to rappel double, will the 120ft be long enough after being tied to the 200 ft rope for the last rappel without making the start to difficult to start below the knot?

If we wanted to set up the guided rappel how much rope would be needed?

Does it make sence to carry the 60ft rope along with the other 2?

Thanks

With nice, thick, 9mm ropes, it would behoove you to learn to rappel single line. However, it is more important to use techniques that you use and understand and can execute safely, than anything else.

As Mark pointed out, the raps are all 120 feet or less. To execute the first guided rappel at Mystery Springs, it takes just a little more, like 130 feet (for both lines). For the final rappel it takes quite a bit more, like 180 feet.

Strange to be asking about an advanced technique like guided rappels, when you indicate beginner status by rapping double-line 9mm.

You might want the 60 foot rope for setting up the safety traverse line at Mystery Springs. Otherwise, since the last two rappels are the long ones, the 60 foot is not really very useful.

Tom :moses:

[moab mark]

On a side question why would someone want to set up a guided rappel at the last drop? I assume you are talking about using the tree on the far side. Would it be so they do not slip on the slime? I would imagine you would be way up in the air. It's not like you could just walk out and stay dry. Just wondering.

Mark

[ratagonia]

On a side question why would someone want to set up a guided rappel at the last drop? I assume you are talking about using the tree on the far side. Would it be so they do not slip on the slime? I would imagine you would be way up in the air. It's not like you could just walk out and stay dry. Just wondering.

Mark

4 Fun.

T

[MiCanyoneer]

Strange to be asking about an advanced technique like guided rappels, when you indicate beginner status by rapping double-line 9mm.

Tom :moses:

I didn't realize prefering to rappel double made you a beginner.
I am in favor of rappeling single strand but my wife has read too many of the accident reports where people have messed up while rappelling single strand.

Tom, What about a guided rappel makes you label it as an advanced technique.

[ratagonia]

Strange to be asking about an advanced technique like guided rappels, when you indicate beginner status by rapping double-line 9mm.

Tom :moses:

I didn't realize prefering to rappel double made you a beginner.
I am in favor of rappeling single strand but my wife has read too many of the accident reports where people have messed up while rappelling single strand.

Tom, What about a guided rappel makes you label it as an advanced technique.

Two nine mil ropes is a LOT of rope to be rappelling on. Depends upon your device and your training, but ... People mess up rapping single or double - it is not the rapping single or double that makes a difference, it is the screwing up. Both systems are unforgiving of certain kinds of mistakes. Personally, I think rapping single is simpler and less prone to error, but others lean the other way.

A Guided Rappel is an advanced technique because.. uh, it is more difficult to understand and set up correctly than basic rappels. Not like it is really HARD, just it is not simple. And you have to rappel single strand - eek! that's an advanced technique right there!

Tom :moses:

[sarahlizzy]

With nice, thick, 9mm ropes, it would behoove you to learn to rappel single line. However, it is more important to use techniques that you use and understand and can execute safely, than anything else.

If we manage to get permits for Mystery in July (ha! I wonder who gets the short straw for waiting outside the visitor centre from 3am?), we'll have to either spend a lot of money on extra rope, or biner-block and rap single strand because the two rope we're bringing are 200 and 100 feet respectively, both Mammut 9mm static.

Planning to rap double strand on all the drops apart from the two long ones where we'll do single strand, first person using an autobloc, everyone else getting a fireman's belay, and the shorter rope will be used as a pull cord for the longer one.

I've found that the use of an ATC-XP in low friction mode, double strand on that rope seems to have slightly less friction than single strand, high friction mode, but there's not much in it.

[Iceaxe]

I didn't realize prefering to rappel double made you a beginner.

If that's true than I'm also a total beginner, I much prefer to rappel double strand. It creates a nice, slow, smooth rappel......

Personally, I think rapping double strand is simpler and less prone to error..... if you can tie a knot you are golden.

That being said, probably 75% of my rappels are single strand because I'm to lazy to carry a second "real" rope and usually just have a pull chord.

Something interesting to note.... both the last death in Zion, the fall in heaps, and the last serious accident, the fall in Pinecreek were both results of improper single rope rigging.... now I know that's a very small sample to form any type of conclusion.... just sayin'

:cool2:

[ratagonia]

With nice, thick, 9mm ropes, it would behoove you to learn to rappel single line. However, it is more important to use techniques that you use and understand and can execute safely, than anything else.

If we manage to get permits for Mystery in July (ha! I wonder who gets the short straw for waiting outside the visitor centre from 3am?), we'll have to either spend a lot of money on extra rope, or biner-block and rap single strand because the two rope we're bringing are 200 and 100 feet respectively, both Mammut 9mm static.

Planning to rap double strand on all the drops apart from the two long ones where we'll do single strand, first person using an autobloc, everyone else getting a fireman's belay, and the shorter rope will be used as a pull cord for the longer one.

I've found that the use of an ATC-XP in low friction mode, double strand on that rope seems to have slightly less friction than single strand, high friction mode, but there's not much in it.

I have lots of ropes, and can set you up with whatever you need. Ping me sideband, and we can set that up: ratagonia at gmail dot com.

Tom

[sarahlizzy]

If we manage to get permits for Mystery in July (ha! I wonder who gets the short straw for waiting outside the visitor centre from 3am?), we'll have to either spend a lot of money on extra rope, or biner-block and rap single strand because the two rope we're bringing are 200 and 100 feet respectively, both Mammut 9mm static.


I have lots of ropes, and can set you up with whatever you need. Ping me sideband, and we can set that up: ratagonia at gmail dot com.


Oh, fabulous! Thank you so much. Will drop you a note when we arrive (will have laptop and Internets)

Sarah

[SLCmntjunkie]

If we manage to get permits for Mystery in July (ha! I wonder who gets the short straw for waiting outside the visitor centre from 3am?)

I wouldn't be too discouraged, all of the Mystery permits over the past 2 days weren't taken. I got in line at 6 this morning and managed to get 6 permits for tomorrow. You never know what expect.

[ratagonia]

If that's true than I'm also a total beginner, I much prefer to rappel double strand. It creates a nice, slow, smooth rappel......


I love it when we find areas of agreement... :roflol:

Tom :moses:

[ratagonia]

I have lots of ropes, and can set you up with whatever you need. Ping me sideband, and we can set that up: ratagonia at gmail dot com.


Oh, fabulous! Thank you so much. Will drop you a note when we arrive (will have laptop and Internets)

Sarah

It would work much better to arrange things now. Connecting on short notice might prove difficult.

Tom :moses: