View Full Version : Ham VS Spot
Ok.. So I am contemplating getting either a Ham radio or a Spot Tracking device. I am leaning towards going with HAM but want yawls opinions.
I know that the HAM will be useless in Slot canyons but then again a SPoT could have the same problem (still line of sight to the Sat in the sky).
I like that with a HAM I can call home if need be and Say.. yep all is good. and I can look at the GPS in my hand and say.. yep I am Here. HAM has emergency frequency's too. HAM I get the license for cheap and don't have to pay monthly etc.. anyhow give me more pros and or cons etc..
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17365
http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17365
I know that the HAM will be useless in Slot canyons but then again a SPoT could have the same problem (still line of sight to the Sat in the sky).
:five:
cilantro13
06-03-2009, 11:57 AM
+1
Question: When in Zion's for example, I see ranger's carrying around radios. I have always assumed they were HAM or shortwave of some sort. It seems that the same limitations would apply for those radios as with a handheld HAM radio.
Assume that you are just hiking (taking slots out of the equation), what kind of range will you get with a 5 watt portable? What is the availability of repeaters? Is there an emergency band that is monitored?
I am still trying to weigh pros and cons as to whether having a ham for backpacking, etc. is worth it.
RedMan
06-03-2009, 05:08 PM
From experince I can tell you HAM will not have the coverage you think it will. Personally I think the SPOT is the best thing out there.
Its small, its cheap and it works.
Ham is fun, when you have a big antenna and time to learn how to use it and time to network with others. If your looking for a new hobby Ham might be fun for you. However if your looking for communications support to supplement your hiking hobby then SPOT is what you want. Incidentally, SPOT is not the only brand of satellite communication available to the general public.
From experince I can tell you HAM will not have the coverage you think it will. Personally I think the SPOT is the best thing out there.
Its small, its cheap and it works.
what kind of coverage do I think HAM will have? some specifics would be handy to make a good decision
My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...
Ham is fun, when you have a big antenna and time to learn how to use it and time to network with others. If your looking for a new hobby Ham might be fun for you. However if your looking for communications support to supplement your hiking hobby then SPOT is what you want. Incidentally, SPOT is not the only brand of satellite communication available to the general public.
care to lend some specifics to this? why is HAM not what I want and SPOT is what I want.. what other communication devices are you referring to
RedMan
06-03-2009, 06:55 PM
My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...
Hahaha, and if aliens blocked out the satellites then what?
What if a squirrel snuck into camp and hauled off your HAM?
They love HAM.
After spending 5 hours trying to raise somoen on the HAM while your friend is dying you will wish you had a SPOT. HAM is not that good.
All I can say is use your head, pay your bills, test things you need to work.
IntrepidXJ
06-03-2009, 07:13 PM
get a satellite phone :cool2:
My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...
Hahaha, and if aliens blocked out the satellites then what?
What if a squirrel snuck into camp and hauled off your HAM?
They love HAM.
After spending 5 hours trying to raise somoen on the HAM while your friend is dying you will wish you had a SPOT. HAM is not that good.
All I can say is use your head, pay your bills, test things you need to work.
can't you read? stuff happens.. it is not like a cell phone that even without a plan can call 911.. what is something happened at the SPoT servers blah blah blah.. give me specifics not your general answers.. why is spot so much better.. don't just say that it is.. give me some proofs.. if you don't have any then shush :)
Interepid.. I have thought about a Sat phone but the price is out of my range right now..
RedMan
06-03-2009, 09:07 PM
My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...
Hahaha, and if aliens blocked out the satellites then what?
What if a squirrel snuck into camp and hauled off your HAM?
They love HAM.
After spending 5 hours trying to raise somoen on the HAM while your friend is dying you will wish you had a SPOT. HAM is not that good.
All I can say is use your head, pay your bills, test things you need to work.
can't you read? stuff happens.. it is not like a cell phone that even without a plan can call 911.. what is something happened at the SPoT servers blah blah blah.. give me specifics not your general answers.. why is spot so much better.. don't just say that it is.. give me some proofs.. if you don't have any then shush :)
Interepid.. I have thought about a Sat phone but the price is out of my range right now..
Hmmm, never mind do what ever you want.
To get what you want goes like this:
cheapest solution (and best solution) always tell someone the route you are taking including juctions, turnoffs, and how long. It's what Shane says all the time to prevent tragedies (just like with the case of Rose Backhaus) and I see this logic as the best communication possible. And it addition to this, you are carrying maps, a gps, and 2-way radio (like Talkabouts that go 15+ miles without requiring a license and has a method of scanning the frequencies)
cheaper solution (but requiring licensing) and having someone listen on the same frequency as you - have a HAM or CB radio. Pros: can reach long distances using radio freq., but then you need a homebase/receiver of someone listening to you 24/7, essentially. FCC permits are cheap too. But it may not be able to reach out deep in the canyons, maybe if you were in the North Wash area, but certainly not Zion or the Swell.
cheap solution: yr-to-yr agreement with Spot. We all know how it works. Approximately $100+ a yr to use this service. Plus you can send updates where family can track you via Google Earth. Cons: No talking to anyone, and have to rely on "that the signal went through, etc." But, they also provide helicopter rescue insurance.
not cheap solution: but a prepaid sat-phone service. Acts just like a phone, and you can either go with the year-to-year, month-to-month, or prepaid solution. Preferrably the prepaid solution is best. You spend $500 on the phone - it includes 300 minutes of airtime - and best of all, it has real-time communication (which is what TooeleCherokee wants). The 300 minutes are only good for a year, and when its done you can buy another 300minutes lasting another year for $200+.
(http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/globalstar/special.html)
Tooele, sounds like you are pretty set on HAM, just go with it then. No reason to argue the point. Most of us like SPOT, most of us use SPOT, and most of us will recommend SPOT. None of us (as far as I know) use HAM.
If you are that paranoid about losing a credit card, open another credit card, put that on SPOT and don't use it for charging purposes.
If you are that paranoid about rescue, carry a SPOT, HAM and sat phone, then you will be covered :2thumbs:
Last week on a rafting trip with kids I brought my SPOT and also rented a sat phone for $65. It was worth the cost to me, because we had a lot of first timers on the trip and lots of kids. Do your own research and see what works best for you, no reason to argue "what if" scenarios. Most of the guys here are sold on Spot, it just works as it intends to work.
Just my .02
Tooele, sounds like you are pretty set on HAM, just go with it then. No reason to argue the point. Most of us like SPOT, most of us use SPOT, and most of us will recommend SPOT. None of us (as far as I know) use HAM.
If you are that paranoid about losing a credit card, open another credit card, put that on SPOT and don't use it for charging purposes.
If you are that paranoid about rescue, carry a SPOT, HAM and sat phone, then you will be covered :2thumbs:
Last week on a rafting trip with kids I brought my SPOT and also rented a sat phone for $65. It was worth the cost to me, because we had a lot of first timers on the trip and lots of kids. Do your own research and see what works best for you, no reason to argue "what if" scenarios. Most of the guys here are sold on Spot, it just works as it intends to work.
Just my .02
I am not trying to argue my point.. I am trying to get people to give some specifics as to why or why not.. but all people are giving is generalities. I know a lot of you like SPoT.. I would like someone to give some SPECIFICS as to why the SPoT is actually better.. Proofs.. actual personal experiance.. Hell even if it is just weight difference for you that is fine but specifics...
cheapest solution (and best solution) always tell someone the route you are taking including juctions, turnoffs, and how long. It's what Shane says all the time to prevent tragedies (just like with the case of Rose Backhaus) and I see this logic as the best communication possible. And it addition to this, you are carrying maps, a gps, and 2-way radio (like Talkabouts that go 15+ miles without requiring a license and has a method of scanning the frequencies)
Did I ask anything about talk about radios? Didn't I already Say that a Sat phone is NOT an option? did I ask about maps and telling people where I am going ? Are you freaking stupid? are you unable to read? I asked about specifics between SPOT and HAM.. if you cann't answer that shut your yap and move on
First of all stop being an ass :bootyshake: You come here to get some feedback and tell everyone to shush, not cool :nono:
Second, as I said before, we can't compare SPOT to HAM, since not many members here use HAM to compare it to SPOT.
What I can help you with is give you some statistics on my 2.5 years of SPOT use and then you can go to hamsRus.com website (or whatever) and get some statistics on HAM use and then do your own comparison.
Why I use spot:
- Cheap. $150 initial purchase, $100/year subscription fee
- Light weight. 7.25 ounces
- Waterproof. I can use it on my raft and/or swimming slot canyons
- Tracking, for extra fee you can have a continues tracking through Google Maps or spot website
- Check in option. Send pre-made messages (2 forms) to 2 different (or same) contact list of phone numbers and emails. One option is called HELP, but all it is is just a different pre-made message routed to a different contact list
- S&R option. A 911 signal will be routed to a local county Sheriff's Office to be treated as a real S&R call.
- SENT acknowledgment. The SPOT actually tells you if your signal went through or not. Even though it might take up to 15 minutes to send a signal.
- Road assistance. Now SPOT offers road assistance ANYWHERE. Not just within cell coverage. Very important if you blow a tire in the middle of Uintas.
- Facebook plugin. My friends on Facebook can see where I am on the map when I am using it.
- Easy to use. Turn it on, push a button, walk away. Done deal, even a person from Tooele can use it :haha:
- Most of all, I know that my family knows I am OK without me doing much of anything. My family will also know that I need help when I get stranded. My family is my best rescue, someone who cares about me and someone who will come to my rescue no matter what. Not some fat dude on a HAM radio, who can careless about my distress call.
- If you need more information on SPOT, please do your own research here: http://findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=1700
Hope this helps.
First of all stop being an ass :bootyshake: You come here to get some feedback and tell everyone to shush, not cool :nono:
Second, as I said before, we can't compare SPOT to HAM, since not many members here use HAM to compare it to SPOT.
What I can help you with is give you some statistics on my 2.5 years of SPOT use and then you can go to hamsRus.com website (or whatever) and get some statistics on HAM use and then do your own comparison.
Why I use spot:
- Cheap. $150 initial purchase, $100/year subscription fee
- Light weight. 7.25 ounces
- Waterproof. I can use it on my raft and/or swimming slot canyons
- Tracking, for extra fee you can have a continues tracking through Google Maps or spot website
- Check in option. Send pre-made messages (2 forms) to 2 different (or same) contact list of phone numbers and emails. One option is called HELP, but all it is is just a different pre-made message routed to a different contact list
- S&R option. A 911 signal will be routed to a local county Sheriff's Office to be treated as a real S&R call.
- SENT acknowledgment. The SPOT actually tells you if your signal went through or not. Even though it might take up to 15 minutes to send a signal.
- Road assistance. Now SPOT offers road assistance ANYWHERE. Not just within cell coverage. Very important if you blow a tire in the middle of Uintas.
- Facebook plugin. My friends on Facebook can see where I am on the map when I am using it.
- Easy to use. Turn it on, push a button, walk away. Done deal, even a person from Tooele can use it :haha:
- Most of all, I know that my family knows I am OK without me doing much of anything. My family will also know that I need help when I get stranded. My family is my best rescue, someone who cares about me and someone who will come to my rescue no matter what. Not some fat dude on a HAM radio, who can careless about my distress call.
- If you need more information on SPOT, please do your own research here: http://findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=1700
Hope this helps.
I am an Ass.. I agree.. I just hate it when people spew generalities and are unable to answer a question..
You said that people are unable to compare the two as they have no experience.. if that is the case then they should let someone else who does have actual information answer instead of running their yap :)
I do appreciate your personal experience with spot.. That is specific information and on target with the question at hand.. Ya I know.. I am Blunt hu :)
I have read through spots FAQ previously as well as other research just trying to get more :).. thanks
You get much more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Just a thought....
You get much more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Just a thought....
but the vinegar keeps the pesky ants away :)
cilantro13
06-04-2009, 07:44 AM
Thanks for the info everybody. I think the take home for me is that HAM isn't going to be that useful as a safety device. Also, I didn't think people took SPoT that seriously. I was wrong. I am going to look into that both for canyons and the long mountain bike treks.
Now, as a fiddle around when you are having lunch device... that is a different story.
My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...
If that is your biggest problem then you really have nothing to worry about.
Geos is the company that you buy the insurance from $8 a person, definitely recommended, you can add your family on as well up to 6 people total for $8 a person.
See their bunker in houston TX here
http://www.geosalliance.com/IERCC.html. They guarantee that they will be able to provide SAR services if local authorities cant.
On June 1st I signed up some more members on my account to be covered for the Geos insurance. While searching their website I read somewhere that they will still provide the services even if your subscription runs out. Mabey they will make you pay the premium back to when your account lapsed or mabey they will make you pay the bill for the rescue. Either way you are still alive.
I couldn't find it again but mabey you could do some legwork and look around the sites. I don't remember if it was the geos site or the spot site.
I thought about looking it up for you but you are being too much of an ass. Seriously, why do you think you can talk to others that way. Very rude. Especially since he was just trying to help out. There is blunt and then there is being a jerk. You weren't being blunt you were being a jerk. I would seriously look into why you act that way. Mabey just a bad day at work and you blew up or mabey you need anger management classes possibly could be that you just don't have good manners.
accadacca
06-04-2009, 08:35 AM
I like HAM & CHEESE.
I like HAM & CHEESE.
Scott, why is the site so slow? And I can't login... help :lol8:
My biggest problem with SPoT is.. What if you start out a 5 day trip.. you send your test signal when you start and all is good.. Then on that same day your wife looses the Credit card that the SPOT service is billed to and the bill comes the next day.. by day 3 you have no service and you have no way to know this.. on Day 5 you get in a world of hurt and push the 911 option.. and well nothing happens because if you don't have paid service nothing will work at all... and you think you have help on the way and nothing is coming.. long shot ya.. crappier things have happened in the world though I figure at least with a HAM radio you at least know if you got out because someone said something back to you...
If that is your biggest problem then you really have nothing to worry about.
Geos is the company that you buy the insurance from $8 a person, definitely recommended, you can add your family on as well up to 6 people total for $8 a person.
See their bunker in houston TX here
http://www.geosalliance.com/IERCC.html. They guarantee that they will be able to provide SAR services if local authorities cant.
On June 1st I signed up some more members on my account to be covered for the Geos insurance. While searching their website I read somewhere that they will still provide the services even if your subscription runs out. Mabey they will make you pay the premium back to when your account lapsed or mabey they will make you pay the bill for the rescue. Either way you are still alive.
I couldn't find it again but mabey you could do some legwork and look around the sites. I don't remember if it was the geos site or the spot site.
I thought about looking it up for you but you are being too much of an ass. Seriously, why do you think you can talk to others that way. Very rude. Especially since he was just trying to help out. There is blunt and then there is being a jerk. You weren't being blunt you were being a jerk. I would seriously look into why you act that way. Mabey just a bad day at work and you blew up or mabey you need anger management classes possibly could be that you just don't have good manners.
1. I have done some legwork and looked around the sites.. you are saying that they will still provide service but it is not on their site so I really don't think that is so true. Looking for real world experiences not generalities and what the company says is true.
2. I already admitted to Being an ASS so I don't need your help on the manners front Dad :)
BruteForce
06-04-2009, 12:50 PM
1. I have done some legwork and looked around the sites.. you are saying that they will still provide service but it is not on their site so I really don't think that is so true. Looking for real world experiences not generalities and what the company says is true.
2. I already admitted to Being an ASS so I don't need your help on the manners front Dad :)
This is starting to look like a troll in action. You've received plenty of feedback. Even the SAR folks I've ridden with carry a SPOT in conjunction with their HAM radio.
I wouldn't even think about leaving home without my SPOT. I've yet to encounter an area (other than the obvious caves, mines, etc) where I couldn't get a message out ("I'm Okay, just checking in").
At this point, I believe you've received sufficient feedback and if you're not trolling, the rest is up to your personal preference and ultimate purchase.
1. I have done some legwork and looked around the sites.. you are saying that they will still provide service but it is not on their site so I really don't think that is so true. Looking for real world experiences not generalities and what the company says is true.
2. I already admitted to Being an ASS so I don't need your help on the manners front Dad :)
This is starting to look like a troll in action. You've received plenty of feedback. Even the SAR folks I've ridden with carry a SPOT in conjunction with their HAM radio.
I wouldn't even think about leaving home without my SPOT. I've yet to encounter an area (other than the obvious caves, mines, etc) where I couldn't get a message out ("I'm Okay, just checking in").
At this point, I believe you've received sufficient feedback and if you're not trolling, the rest is up to your personal preference and ultimate purchase.
Just becouse someone doesn't agree or is an Ass doesn't mean they are a Troll.. There have been few posts with actual specific information you may take the "Ford is better than Chevy" as fact without proofs but I for one dont.. thank you for your opinion it has been enlightening :)
brookiekiller
06-04-2009, 01:52 PM
Xbox is better than Playstation!!!! :popcorn:
I love a good SPOT thread. I find it funny how many fanboys there are for this device.
I have been researching SPOT as well - it may work, but it won't replace common sense, and is FAR from perfect. If you are trusting your life to the thing, then bad things are going to happen anyway.
Does the SPOT have any default Emergency mode after a time of no pushing of buttons? The reason I ask is if I needed one, most of the time I could see myself being unconcsious and unable to push the button. I still may buy one for the "Just in Case" and a little more peace of mind - I have noticed that you don't need to buy the annual service, but can pay month to month for $10.
Wow! what is up with SPOT haters? Don't like it, don't buy it, honestly
:roll:
No, SPOT will not rescue your ass when you are unconscious
No, SPOT will not replace your girlfriend's credit cards
No, SPOT will not beam a fat dude to summon a rescue for you
No, SPOT will not revive you when you lose conscious/drown/fall off the mountain/break your leg/crack your head open/give birth/whatever
No, SPOT will not let you cyber to your boyfriend while you are in the woods
No, SPOT will not magically do any of the "blank insert here" scenarios you spot haters will come up with
However, SPOT WILL notify my family that I am still OK and WILL show them where my last location was that I (I repeat I myself in conscious state with my own finger) sent an OK message. For that, I do pay $100 a month, that's $8.30 a month for my wife/mom to know that I am OK, instead of trying to guess and worry.
Again...
:roll:
This is the toy my kid gave me on my trip, that is my tent I sleep in, the box contains my essentials on the trip with a first aid kit in a waterproof container (holding matches, emergency blinket, etc) and there is my other tool ... SPOT... among other valuable tools/items I carry with me on my trips.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3308/3548248560_a89018c2e5_o.jpg
blueeyes
06-04-2009, 02:13 PM
If you have it on the tracking mode it sends a signal out every 10-15 min. The people on your list should have access to your map. They way I have set it up is....
My mom is my main women. Before I start my ride I send an OK signal. Then after it is sent I put it on track. When I am done I send a second OK signal. This way she knows I made it off my ride safely. If I don't send that second signal she knows something is up. She can check the map and see where my SPOT sent its last signal.
Granted the longest ride I have been on is 4 hours and she has to know approximately how long the rides are to be to know when she should panic. But again that is good communication to your back up plan or whatever you want to call it. At least they will know my location. I may not be able to hit the emergency button, but if you are out you can't use the HAM either.
Our deal is when camping I send an OK in the morning and an OK at night. This doesn't mean she should panic if she doesn't get the OK's just if I don't come home when I say then panic. Again she has some clue as to where she should start looking.
I have taught my kids what they need to do if we are hiking or biking and something happens. Very easy for them to understand.
I just got mine, haven't used it a ton. My biggest gripe is for some reason my browser doesn't mesh with their website and I have problems updating my messages or changing who I want to send my OK and track messages too. That annoys me. I have to delete my cookies everytime I want to change anything.
All I know is after falling off my bike last year and knocking myself out when I was biking all by myself on a trail less travled, it gives my mother a peace of mind and that is worth every penny. I have never truly been on her shit list until my sister tattled on me that day. Pretty sad when your 35. :lol8:
Good example :2thumbs:
I got my mother so trained that she almost called S&R on me last Monday. She thought I was coming back from my rafting trip on Sunday. I was sending OK messages every night, just like blueeyes, but then I was lazy and didn't send one on Monday. My poor mom didn't sleep all night calling all my friends in a panic. Luckily, I sent her an OK msg when I packed my boat and was on my way home, but still out of cell reception.
brookiekiller
06-04-2009, 02:34 PM
I wasn't being a jackass about my unconscious question - it was genuine. The reason I asked is because I have read that it has that feature and have been told that by users as well - that it will alert the 911 automatically if the device isn't activated after a long period of time or some sort of thing - but couldn't find it on the official SPOT website. Thanks for your answer.
The SPOT website is also offering a free device for 2 years of service. Another reason I talked about the $10/month is that some of us are only in need of the device for a couple of months of the year - I never go soloing or do much other stuff during the winter. The month to month is very attractive.
The internet is full of stories where the family calls SAR because the Help button was pushed inadvertently - that is my worst nightmare as the SPOT could be worse than before. The piece of mind for the family is good - but if an OK doesn't go through, then it is worse for them than before having the device. If an accidental "Help" goes out - I would feel terrible.
RedMan
06-04-2009, 03:09 PM
Does the SPOT have any default Emergency mode after a time of no pushing of buttons? .
No, thinking about this I don't want this feature, I'd get busy, forget and SAR would show up.
It does have a tracking mode so someone following your position can make a supposition that you have been in the same place for too long so perhaps you are unconcious.
The internet is full of stories where the family calls SAR because the Help button was pushed inadvertently - that is my worst nightmare as the SPOT could be worse than before.
Really? never heard of this. I talk with the SPOT people about once a month and this has NEVER been mentioned as a problem. I'd like to read the stories you are referring to if you can provide the links. Donnie Hatch is the SPOT rep for our area, you can call if you like and verify. I have his number.
The piece of mind for the family is good - but if an OK doesn't go through, then it is worse for them than before having the device. If an accidental "Help" goes out - I would feel terrible.
Yuo have to seriously press and hold the buttons to make them work.
There is about zero chance of an inadvertant bump activating the "Help" or "911" buttons.
You can turn "Help" off. Just press it again and follow with multiple OK messages. The device inidcates if it has a signal lock on the satellite so its not as if you have no idea if communication is possible or not. I don't believe your scenario is realistic or generally possible except under intentional causes.
BTW there are two kinds of "Help"; "HELP" is only sent to your contacts, no SAR is involved. "911" causes the GEOS center to contact your family to verify that your children are not playing with SPOT before calling SAR.
Is it perfect? Nope. Is it a hell of a lot better than my HAM? No doubt.
Am I going to bet my life on any electronic gadget? Hell no, this aint my first rodeo.
BTW, the morons at SPOT opted for a carry pouch without room to carry extra batteries despite my harping on them to provide room for spares. The only place you can get a pouch that has room for spares is from ATVUtah.com and he only has a few left since the manufacturer stopped making the pouch. Make sure you ask for the pouch that will carry spares.
brookiekiller
06-04-2009, 03:41 PM
Thanks Redman.
Really? never heard of this. I talk with the SPOT people about once a month and this has NEVER been mentioned as a problem. I'd like to read the stories you are referring to if you can provide the links. Donnie Hatch is the SPOT rep for our area, you can call if you like and verify. I have his number.
http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/234
The Hikers side of the above story:
http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/273
I use this case to carry the spot in. It fits perfectly and I don't have to worry about button pushing. The case is under $20
http://www.thepelicanstore.com/Pelican-1010-Micro-Case-1000.aspx
http://www.thepelicanstore.com/showimage.axd?id=245&W=315&H=315
My dad dropped this while riding on a dirtbike on a road. A little while later he realized his backpack was unzipped and the spot had fallen out. A big water truck passed him on the dirt road. The tracks when right over the spot in the pelican case. Lucky for me the soft dirt and the hard case protected the spot. No cracks on the pelican case. Those things are tough!
Cirrus2000
06-04-2009, 05:24 PM
The buttons really need to be pressed, I agree.
The tracking feature is totally worth the extra $50/year. That Last Known Position really simplifies the SAR, if you're all alone.
I've hiked solo for years, and for the last year I've carried the SPoT. It hasn't saved my life yet, and I don't expect to ever need it, but if I do, it will be worth everything I've spent on it so far.
As a big time solo hiker/backpacker/scrambler/etc., it also gives my wife peace of mind to be able to see where I am each day, and that I'm moving around. First thing in the morning, and last thing at night, I send an "OK" message. When away from a phone for 6 days or so, that means a lot.
It may not be for everyone, but it sure is for me!
RedMan
06-04-2009, 06:14 PM
Thanks Redman.
Really? never heard of this. I talk with the SPOT people about once a month and this has NEVER been mentioned as a problem. I'd like to read the stories you are referring to if you can provide the links. Donnie Hatch is the SPOT rep for our area, you can call if you like and verify. I have his number.
http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/234
The Hikers side of the above story:
http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/273
Intertesting, he is saying the Help button activated from a slight bump with a heavily gloved finger. I find it difficult to activate at all. I partially blame him for never testing it. It sounds like a manufacturing defect on the unit he had. I will ask Donnie for details.
BruteForce
06-04-2009, 06:20 PM
I use my SPOT weekly and I'm always wearing gloves (hiking, ATV'ing, rappelling). I have NEVER had an accidental HELP/911 hit. I call Bullshit!
Best piece of mind I could have ever purchased. I couple the SPOT with my cell phone and GSRM/FM rated radio (rated at 32miles range).
The only way I'd be screwed is it I was unable to use anything..but there's nothing else that will protect against that (unconscious, etc).
RedMan
06-04-2009, 06:38 PM
I use my SPOT weekly and I'm always wearing gloves (hiking, ATV'ing, rappelling). I have NEVER had an accidental HELP/911 hit. I call Bullshit!
Best piece of mind I could have ever purchased. I couple the SPOT with my cell phone and GSRM/FM rated radio (rated at 32miles range).
The only way I'd be screwed is it I was unable to use anything..but there's nothing else that will protect against that (unconscious, etc).
Brute force, Which Radio do you have?
When I go alone I make sure someone is willing to periodically check my tracking. I tell them that if I have been stopped for over an hour in one place without sending an OK that they should assume I am in trouble.
I always hit an OK message when I am stopped for any length of time.
If I am there over an hour I hit OK again when I leave that location.
This way they have a way to guage if I might be unconcious from an accident that won't allow me to hit a button.
I only do this when I am alone.
BruteForce
06-04-2009, 07:05 PM
Brute force, Which Radio do you have?
When I go alone I make sure someone is willing to periodically check my tracking. I tell them that if I have been stopped for over an hour in one place without sending an OK that they should assume I am in trouble.
I always hit an OK message when I am stopped for any length of time.
If I am there over an hour I hit OK again when I leave that location.
This way they have a way to guage if I might be unconcious from an accident that won't allow me to hit a button.
I only do this when I am alone.
I use the Midland GXT950. It has 7 or 9 channels of FM (HAM) radio. It's worked well over long distances for me.
RedMan
06-04-2009, 07:48 PM
Brute force, Which Radio do you have?
When I go alone I make sure someone is willing to periodically check my tracking. I tell them that if I have been stopped for over an hour in one place without sending an OK that they should assume I am in trouble.
I always hit an OK message when I am stopped for any length of time.
If I am there over an hour I hit OK again when I leave that location.
This way they have a way to guage if I might be unconcious from an accident that won't allow me to hit a button.
I only do this when I am alone.
I use the Midland GXT950. It has 7 or 9 channels of FM (HAM) radio. It's worked well over long distances for me.
I had a GXT-600 and it worked just well enough to piss me off. Lost one fo the pair due to the cheap clip on a ride. I have a Yaesu VX-7R hacked to work in the FRS/GMRS freq range now. Very nice handheld unit. With a decent antenna its range is very good and its transmisison quality is great but its no replacement for the SPOT. Down on the Paiute and in Moab we can reach the repeaters so it pretty good range wise.
cilantro13
06-04-2009, 08:04 PM
Where did you get the directions for the hack in the GMRS/FRS range? Did you get instructions online or buy one that was already hacked?
RedMan
06-04-2009, 08:35 PM
Where did you get the directions for the hack in the GMRS/FRS range? Did you get instructions online or buy one that was already hacked?
I used VX-7 Commander. Read this post.
http://www.atvutah.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1170459516/40
This is frowned upon generally. I am such a rebel.
Hey, if you will self-title yourself as an ass, then its my obligation to further relate to you as such:
Jack Ass, I want to answer your questions after my helpful reply to you. First, the reason why I included the sat phone idea was because in your intial post - you did not mention a word about a satellite phone. Not until futher down in your replies did you mention it was out of your price range - and I didn't read that post. And yes I can read, smart ass, and in my mind gave you information which could assist you in your search for knowledge - Ham vs. Spot.
Dumb Ass, before I even responded to you, people gave some valid points to your question. And you demanded specifics. Then another post showed up but that wasnt good enough. So I decided to chime in and offer my suggestion. Although, I do not know you or know what your hiking/climbing/etc skills are like - I thought I would throw in some helpful info to consider (and what's funny, after reading the 2 pages after my reply, other members like RedMan and blueyes, in effect gave the same info that I did).
Ass Wipe, you mocked my suggestion of carrying maps, gps, and telling familes/friends of your locations, junctions, times, etc.
Let me quote a few members to make my point in why I posted what I did:
But again that is good communication to your back up plan or whatever you want to call it.
Blueeyes was saying that her Spot plan was like so. Then she said the above quote and made reference to the backup plan. Everyone at least knows the location where she is (hence my post about letting loved ones know what you are doing, juctions, time, etc.) Blueeyes using this technology but has the backup (which is the best communication).
Redman than said this referring to the Spot:
Is it perfect? Nope. Is it a hell of a lot better than my HAM? No doubt.
Am I going to bet my life on any electronic gadget? Hell no, this aint my first rodeo.
Again to reiterate, that's my point about having maps, backup plans, etc. Hopefully, Ass, you are starting to get this philosophy in your head. And if you want to ask a canyon expert, and who has probably done more canyons than 3/4 of us will ever do - his advice is this (paraphrasing): best communication is to let people know what your plans are. Then have maps, 2way radio (like a talkabout), etc.). And to complement that: you can get a tech device like Spot, Sat Phone, etc. Does he have a spot? In our last discussion about this - he was thinking about getting one but not sure if he has one currenly. Does he carry Ham radio? No. Does he carry a sat phone? On occassion. Does he carry maps? always. Does he let his wife know his itinernary plans: always. Has he been in serious cituations: numerous, and came out okay, because he was prepared and didn't have necessarily his spot or ham radio to rescue him.
You have GOT to have this philosophy in your head now.
So frankly, I don't know why you (the Ass) were freaking out. Granted, I didn't give you specifics Ham vs. Spot - BUT i did give some, but apparently that wasn't good for you.
cilantro13
06-04-2009, 09:56 PM
Redman -- Thanks.
What happened with this thread? Usually don't see that level of doucheyness outside the political section. Keep it up! :2thumbs: :roflol:
blueeyes
06-05-2009, 06:01 AM
What happened with this thread? Usually don't see that level of doucheyness outside the political section. Keep it up! :2thumbs: :roflol:
:lol8: :popcorn:
RedMan I like your use of SPOT if you are stopped in one place for over an hour you send out OK messages. I am going to do this.
I will admit.. and I have no idea how... I did accidently push the HELP button.. I realized this before any message was sent out and turned the unit off. But if you have it in your pack or as I carry it on your pack in the case you can buy I don't see how it could accidentally be pushed. When I accidentally pushed it I was handling the the thing out of its case.
Jack Ass, I want to answer your questions after my helpful reply to you. First, the reason why I included the sat phone idea was because in your intial post - you did not mention a word about a satellite phone.
That would be because this post is in regard to HAM vs SPoT.. Not HAM vs SPoT vs Maps vs telling your mommy what you are doing. the problem is you have a hard time staying on topic hu? It should not be needed to say that it is out of my price range when it is not even part of the questions asked :)
Blueeyes was saying that her Spot plan was like so. Then she said the above quote and made reference to the backup plan
Again I never asked about your backup plans.. I asked about HAM vs SPoT.. To Reiterate.. I don't care what your backup plan is.. you basically have stated the same thing as before and OBVIOUSLY cannot read as I said shut up if you can't give specifics.. I am sorry for your plight in reading.. I will see if I can find a remedial cognitive and associative reading program to help you out... SPECIFICS about the PROS AND CONS of SPOT VS HAM... not what your backup plan is and .. SPot is better is NOT specific. I think you have the title of Dumbass.. I am Just an ASS :)
You could buy a satellite phone.
Scott Card
06-05-2009, 08:36 AM
Specifics you want eh? Lets see, Ham vs. SPoT. Ham tasted better than SPoT but Ham was also more fatty. SPoT kinda had a elky moose sort of wild flavor. Ham, well was ham, moist soft and delicious. SPoT made better Jerky. So my conclusion is, for canyons, I'd go with SPoT. Less fat, more protein and makes better jerky. R.I.P. SPoT.
RedMan
06-05-2009, 08:45 AM
="blueeyesRedMan I like your use of SPOT if you are stopped in one place for over an hour you send out OK messages. I am going to do this.
I will admit.. and I have no idea how... I did accidently push the HELP button.. I realized this before any message was sent out and turned the unit off. But if you have it in your pack or as I carry it on your pack in the case you can buy I don't see how it could accidentally be pushed. When I accidentally pushed it I was handling the the thing out of its case.
blueeyes,
Not sure turning off the SPOT is the best plan at that point. It might have slipped the message out and then someone is thinking you need help.
Even if you push help or 911 on purpose, then decide you don't need help I recommend you push the OK 3-4 times soon afterward. Most people will understand that whatever the reason was that you sent the help request you are now fine and do not need help.
Of course 911 will cancel when you hit the 911 button again but I still recommned several OK messages after you cancel 911. This will assure the geos center that the cancellation was ligit and the batteries didn't just die right after the initial send. Typically they are going to call the people on your OK list ( you did set it up this way correct?) before dispatching any SAR so they will know about the follow up OK message.
Now you could create custom messages.
If I hit OK 7 times in a row from the same location it means "Alien Squirrels stole my HAM".
blueeyes
06-05-2009, 09:13 AM
="blueeyesRedMan I like your use of SPOT if you are stopped in one place for over an hour you send out OK messages. I am going to do this.
I will admit.. and I have no idea how... I did accidently push the HELP button.. I realized this before any message was sent out and turned the unit off. But if you have it in your pack or as I carry it on your pack in the case you can buy I don't see how it could accidentally be pushed. When I accidentally pushed it I was handling the the thing out of its case.
blueeyes,
Not sure turning off the SPOT is the best plan at that point. It might have slipped the message out and then someone is thinking you need help.
Even if you push help or 911 on purpose, then decide you don't need help I recommend you push the OK 3-4 times soon afterward. Most people will understand that whatever the reason was that you sent the help request you are now fine and do not need help.
Of course 911 will cancel when you hit the 911 button again but I still recommned several OK messages after you cancel 911. This will assure the geos center that the cancellation was ligit and the batteries didn't just die right after the initial send. Typically they are going to call the people on your OK list ( you did set it up this way correct?) before dispatching any SAR so they will know about the follow up OK message.
Now you could creatre custom messages.
If I hit OK 7 times in a row from the same location it means "Alien Squirrels stole my HAM".
It happened quick enough I KNEW!! that the message had not been sent. And it will send one to my phone too. It never beeped so I know it didn't go out.
Love the squirrel message! :roflol:
I did steal your help message that makes me laugh. If I am pushing my HELP button they had dam well better show up with tequila. Either to numb the pain or my nerves.
I did steal your help message that makes me laugh. If I am pushing my HELP button they had dam well better show up with tequila. Either to numb the pain or my nerves.
Emergency Party! Tequila and a thermal blanket could be one hell of a good time. :naughty:
cilantro13
06-23-2009, 08:10 AM
I bit the bullet and got a spot. Going to get a portable Yeasu HAM as well, not for emergencies, but for the fun of it.
Anybody know of any promo codes to get any free service for SPOT? Shoot, with the number of people on Bogley using the service and advocating its use, you would think they would hook up the folks at Bogley...
Last Child
06-23-2009, 08:58 AM
I think that you will like the SPOT. I like mine and my wife loves it. However I have had two instances in one year where the spot sent out messages without me knowing it. Luckily it was only the "just checking in" button and not the help or 911. That could have turned out to be an expensive ordeal. The SPOT was tucked away in my Camelbak and somehow got turned on and got the check button pushed I am now going to purchase the pelican case linked in this thread to prevent that in the future.
I am now going to purchase the pelican case linked in this thread to prevent that in the future.
Yeah! I finally did something usefull on Bogley! Who knows, mabey this will be a life changing event for me and I will be more helpful from now on? Nah, who am I kidding.
cilantro13
06-23-2009, 09:39 AM
I had an extra pelican case that was sitting around. My spot now resides in it as well.
I was surprised how heavy the unit is, however. About double my Garmin eTrex. My wife laughs at me that I cannot enjoy nature without my ensemble of gadgets. GPS, Spot, iPod, Cell Phone, two sets of bike lights (800 lumens worth)... I think she gets as much pleasure making fun of my gear choices when I bike or canyoneer as I do actually doing it. :haha:
Cirrus2000
06-23-2009, 09:57 AM
I had an extra pelican case that was sitting around. My spot now resides in it as well.
I was surprised how heavy the unit is, however. About double my Garmin eTrex. My wife laughs at me that I cannot enjoy nature without my ensemble of gadgets. GPS, Spot, iPod, Cell Phone, two sets of bike lights (800 lumens worth)... I think she gets as much pleasure making fun of my gear choices when I bike or canyoneer as I do actually doing it. :haha:
Imagine how heavy it would be with rechargeable batteries. I can't get over how light lithium batteries are.
My SPoT always sits on the outside of my pack, girth hitched to the lid, then clipped on to a strap. It's a little scratched and scraped up, but it's always tracking and available.
I was driving home from a hike the other day, and realized I had 4 GPS devices on. My SPoT (hanging from a strap on my safari top) was tracking me, my new Garmin 60Cx was running, my Garmin Nuvi was playing my music & telling me how long it would take to get home, and my iPhone - well, just for fun I had to have it follow my location as well. Crazy! Tough to get lost like that.
Last Child
06-23-2009, 11:17 AM
I am glad to see that there are a few other gadget nerds here. My buddy is always giving me crap "Gadget Geek" or just plain "Gadget" because no matter what we're doing I seem to always have stuff to fiddle around with.
cilantro13
06-23-2009, 12:11 PM
That because us gadget guys are bored if we aren't learning the metes and bounds of a new device, figuring out how to manipulate a new interface, or trying to hack the latest device to do something it isn't supposed to do...
psl53
06-23-2009, 04:12 PM
In case anyone is interested. If you go to SPOT's home page, they are offering a free SPOT unit for a two year sign up. Sounds like a good deal. I'm checking to see if family members can use it on my membership or if they offer a family package.
Peter
trackrunner
06-23-2009, 04:28 PM
In case anyone is interested. If you go to SPOT's home page, they are offering a free SPOT unit for a two year sign up. Sounds like a good deal. I'm checking to see if family members can use it on my membership or if they offer a family package.
Peter
a couple months ago it was for a one year membership
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