U.S. Bank Nationalization - Bad?

[rockgremlin]

So it appears that many of the largest banks in the U.S. are on track to be acquired by the federal gov't. Many people said it would never happen, but c'mon...lets be real here.

My question is...would it necessarily be a bad thing if/when that happens? Why? Could it be worse than our current pre-depression state of affairs?

[Sombeech]

the only thing bad would be to make it harder for competition to exist. Competition is always good for the consumer.

[JP]

If ya believe in Socialism, there's nothing wrong with it :nod:

[CrazyFinn]

I'm trying to think of an agency the gubmint runs well. Let's see, Post Office, or maybe Amtrak, would you bank at either one?

[Mtnman1830]

I have just finished Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto. He gives ten planks of communism.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes

Hope this never happens.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

On its way, under the current administration.

3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.

Hope this never happens, though the tax is pretty heavy...

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Happening now with the 'bad mortgages'? Emigrants come here, looking for the american dream, and get a mortgage they can't afford...

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

The answer to this thread...

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equal distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production

We already have in place some of Marx's planks, and more are on the way. Is this where we are headed?

[RedMan]

I'm trying to think of an agency the gubmint runs well. Let's see, Post Office, or maybe Amtrak, would you bank at either one?

BZZZZZ try again please. The US Postal Service run well? Not, talk about an inefficient disaster. We should give it away and someone with a brain like UPS or FedEx would almost certainly be able to do a better job.

Let see Amtrak? Losing money for 40 years. Yeah thats another great one.

Personally I think the US Air Force is fairly well run (relative to most).
Maybe we should let the Air Force run the banks.
Thats the way it works in Government. You don't need experience running the banks, just tenure and commendations from your old job.

[DiscGo]

I'm trying to think of an agency the gubmint runs well. Let's see, Post Office, or maybe Amtrak, would you bank at either one?


Totally. The Government just screws it up. Have you guys read Atlas Shrugged?

[CrazyFinn]

I'm trying to think of an agency the gubmint runs well. Let's see, Post Office, or maybe Amtrak, would you bank at either one?

Totally. The Government just screws it up. Have you guys read Atlas Shrugged?

Man, that book goes back a ways. I've never read it but I think everyone else I know has. Maybe it's time I do. :nod:

[DiscGo]

After 7 years of me suggesting Atlas Shrugged to my wife, she finally read it this year. Long book, kind of sad (especially in loo of how prophetic it was and how much is actually happening in our Government right now) but that book does a great job of pointing out the slippery slop to communism and the negative effects of communism.

[Deathcricket]

After 7 years of me suggesting Atlas Shrugged to my wife, she finally read it this year. Long book, kind of sad (especially in loo of how prophetic it was and how much is actually happening in our Government right now) but that book does a great job of pointing out the slippery slop to communism and the negative effects of communism.

Ohh another good set is the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. I wouldn't recommend them for Mormon eyes though, extremely graphic. But similar thing happens. But very well written and similar in nature to Ayn Rand's stuff. Best series I've ever read, hands down.

:2thumbs:

[cachehiker]

Have you guys read Atlas Shrugged?

I was very proud of having finished it. I wasn't exactly known for having much perseverance back then.

As far as Karl Marx goes, I'm no liberal but I do lean a bit towards the Jeffersonian side. The world belongs to the next generation and not this one. Making sure your kids are taken care of is one thing but making sure they stay filthy rich and get to keep all the old family money when they don't have the talent to achieve it on their own is another.

Much of Marx is tripe but:

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Don't like the "heavy" but the rich benefit most from an orderly society and I don't see why they shouldn't have to pay a bit more for the privilege.

3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.

The way estate taxes are set up is unfair but income is income and if your family is such a bunch of shortsighted tightwads that none of it gets passed on to the next generation until the very end, you deserve to see your children pay higher taxes on their immediate windfall.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

We're talking about the future of our country here and not educating the next generation or allowing them to fall through the cracks is a very good way to throw it all away. Just look at where our educational system ranks in the world right now (and it's going down).

Just my 2

[Iceaxe]

Post Office

:roflol: I see you have not actually mailed anything from the post office in some time. It's always a 15 minute wait in line at the Draper post office.... now compare that to UPS of FedEx....

[DiscGo]

Ohh another good set is the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind.

:2thumbs:

I have never heard of it. I usually have a decently strong stomach when it comes to reading, so if you recommend it I will check it out (though probably not until Summer).

[Deathcricket]

Ohh another good set is the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind.

:2thumbs:

I have never heard of it. I usually have a decently strong stomach when it comes to reading, so if you recommend it I will check it out (though probably not until Summer).

Oh, I highly recommend it then. :)

I originally just ran across them because the artwork was by Keith Parkinson who is my favorite artist. I know, weird buying a book because of it's cover, haha. But they have since become my favorite series. There is also a television show called "legend of the seeker" but it's nothing like the books. Although I admit I do like that as well. Here is a brief synopsis on the books from wiki. Very accurate IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Truth


Goodkind portrays in his novels that individuals can remain true in the face of adversity without sacrificing their values and moral beliefs. Goodkind's protagonists show that they have courage when making choices, even when faced with difficult situations, and they remain steadfast even when faced with mistakes in their own judgment. The Sword of Truth series also offers a stark contrast between Objectivist and socialist or collectivist beliefs in its portrayal of political dynamics.

The first few volumes of the series present[citation needed] a much more subtle tone of Objectivist philosophy, but as the protagonist Richard grows into his role through the series, Goodkind's works feature a more pronounced focus on this philosophical theme.

Goodkind offers his philosophical views in many of the volumes of the Sword of Truth series. He is an Objectivist, and while he does not write to promote his philosophy, it does come through in his writings. [3] Terry Goodkind himself has stated in interviews that he is not writing fantasy, but rather is writing about important human themes: stories about heroes who can overcome, to project a life worth living.

[Cirrus2000]

I think that perhaps, CrazyFinn, you should have put some sort of "irony" emoticon in your post. I think some folks didn't recognize your sarcasm... Hey everyone, his point was that those institutions are not run well - hence the "Would you bank there?" question.

Funny to see people mock the people who agree with them... :ne_nau:

On the other hand: ding-ding-ding! Discgo got it!

Oh, and from a certified lefter-than-thou: Nope, bad idea all around!

[DiscGo]

Funny to see people mock the people who agree with them... :ne_nau:


Oh, and from a certified lefter-than-thou: Nope, bad idea all around!

I too was surprised that people couldn't see the sarcasm.


And I think that when both liberals and conservatives agree on anything that just shows that it has to be correct.

[hank moon]

the only thing bad would be to make it harder for competition to exist. Competition is always good for the consumer.

Hey Justin, I agree with you, with the qualification that the competition must have boundaries in order to be generally beneficial to the consumer. Unregulated competition played a significant part in getting us where we are right now: donating our tax dollars to the banks that must not fail. Banks that are too big to fail should not be allowed to exist. Unrestrained competition means large banks eat small banks and reduce the diversity of competition until they are so few in number and so influential that they literally become a part of our government. That's the sick side of competition, and that's what we're seeing right now.

The good side is when lots of players can stay in the game and create healthy competition on a (more or less) level playing field. This can only happen with lawful regulation, as history has shown us that power and corruption will grow whenever the conditions are right (like they are now). It has also clearly demonstrated that increasing the number/diversity of competitors creates a balancing effect and is a great defense against corruption.

Unfortunately it looks as if BLOBAMA is giving big high fives (and a pile of our money) to the old guard at the way-too-big banks, which pretty much guarantees no fundamental change in the long-term situation. Meaning: we may, after much time and donations of our tax money to a shadow gang of politician-bankers, enjoy a reinvigorated economy for a time. But the same future promises no end to repeated collapse/bailout cycles if the system itself does not change.

We need some new laws.

[cachehiker]

Banks that are too big to fail should not be allowed to exist.

When they get to this point they are monopolies for all intensive purposes and should be subject to reasonable regulation. Karl Rove and the other three horsemen of the apocalypse weren't about to do that. When institutions cross the line from private enterprises to public infrastructure, they should be required by law to serve the public interest and be worthy of their trust. There are things for which the enormous capital expenditure associated with their infrastructure makes a truly free market system less than ideal. How much would your natural gas cost if there were two dozen separate and competing systems of pipelines stretching across the country in parallel? Ma Bell had to suffer through regulation (sometimes) and utilities are forced to do it (sometimes). So why not keep the collusion of big banks, GNMA, FRE, and NYSE tightly regulated? Just about any other course of action is going to result in Monopoly