The British called, they want their guns back!

[CrazyFinn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

[Scott Card]

Wow, yikes, and thanks for posting. Some good quoteable stuff there at the end. "Freedom is only for those who have the guts to fight for it" I think was the one I liked. :2thumbs:

[Don]

Great video, thanks.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Good to see that Britain had their own version of Joe Horn with Tony Martin. :roll: At least the Brits had the good sense to convict the douche of murder.


James

[Scott Card]

Good to see that Britain had their own version of Joe Horn with Tony Martin. :roll: At least the Brits had the good sense to convict the douche of murder.


JamesWhat is scary is I think you mean that. What are your views of your home and what is appropriate for protecting you and your family? Are you in favor of a total handgun ban? The stats in G. Britian seem to cut against the hand gun ban don't they?

Or are you just bored and stiring the Bogley pot?

[Don]

Or are you just bored and stiring the Bogley pot?

My money is on bored and stiring the pot. :haha:





:popcorn:

[James_B_Wads2000]

I am stirring a bit. :haha: I don

[jumar]

Tresspassing/burgulary is not a justifiable use of deadly force IMO. Deadly force is justified when lives are in danger not property.

I agree :five:

[Deathcricket]

Tresspassing/burgulary is not a justifiable use of deadly force IMO. Deadly force is justified when lives are in danger not property.

I agree :five:

Disagree! If only for the reason that getting shot is an effective deterrent. In the interest of not turning a "troll" into a 16 page post I will be quiet though.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Disagree! If only for the reason that getting shot is an effective deterrent. In the interest of not turning a "troll" into a 16 page post I will be quiet though.

No worries here Jacob. I have no intention to go down that road with you again here. If anyone else wants to relive the James/deathcricket flame fest over this you can go here:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9476

And if anyone actually reads this they my be interested to know:
I have met deathcricket in person since and he didn

[Deathcricket]

:haha:

I'm gonna have to go back and read that myself. I don't ever recall wanting to punch you in the face.

[trackrunner]

I get nothing exept that the video is not available because of a copy right claim from the NRA. Those SOBs :frustrated: sticking up for the second amendment but taking away the first amendment.

:roflol:

[RedMan]

Or are you just bored and stiring the Bogley pot?

My money is on bored and stiring the pot. :haha:

:popcorn:

With every post he makes.

[Deathcricket]

Deadly force is justified when lives are in danger not property.


Went back and read it, wasn't as interesting as I recalled.... The years must have enhanced my memories. I just wanted to commend you on this statement though. At least you admit deadly force is justified when lives are in danger. Most hippies I know will tell you in circular reasoning that "murder" is wrong no matter what. So at least you came part way there. I still have a little hope for you yet.
:2thumbs:

[Scott Card]

Deadly force is justified when lives are in danger not property.


Went back and read it, wasn't as interesting as I recalled.... The years must have enhanced my memories. I just wanted to commend you on this statement though. At least you admit deadly force is justified when lives are in danger. Most hippies I know will tell you in circular reasoning that "murder" is wrong no matter what. So at least you came part way there. I still have a little hope for you yet.
:2thumbs:
The scary thing about the phrase "when lives are in danger" is not necessarily an objective analysis. What if the person was running away from you and there was a butcher knife on the counter in the direction he/she was running? or a bat or someone waiting in the car with a gun? Again, why are they running? Is it to get a tactical advantage to pull their gun and fire back? I don

[Deathcricket]

Totally agreed! In fact I think very few people can argue your logic. I think the thing that made this "case" special though was that it was a neighbor watching another's property (vacation or something). He was on the phone with 911 saying that a house next door was being robbed. He went out of the safety of his house and shot the guys leaving with his neighbors cash.

So you can't argue he was in any danger at all, and also he knew his neighbor was not home. So he shot them to prevent them from getting away with "loot" as he called it. I guess since they were transporting the stolen goods through his yard, you could argue he was in some danger though legally. He also understood the law in texas allows people to defend property with lethal force and exercised that right. The entire 911 call was recorded and he mentioned it.

Anyways, me and Carpey had a nice conversation about it, he made some great points. James took some single sentence sniper attacks and posted half nekid pics as usual. It if was me, I would not have went out to engage criminals over material possessions myself. But I feel his actions were justified, most do not condone killing a person in the name of property defense. I think once you make the choice to harm another person physically or economically, they are justified to protect themselves with whatever the situation calls for. I think a strong message that says "if you are committing a crime and the homeowner points a gun and tells you to stop, comply immediately" is a good one.

[James_B_Wads2000]

Sheer comic gold as usual. :haha:

I will just interject a couple of points: The use of deadly force is not justified to defend property. In the heat of the moment it my not be clear what the

[Deathcricket]

Come on dude! You can do better than that. I liked the "land mines on my lawn" one better.

:popcorn:

[ilanimaka]

Human life only possesses the value of our decisions. If somebody is going to break into my home, they obviously don't place much value on their own life. Therefore, why should I place any value on their life. They're just taking up space and resources that somebody more valuable could be using.

Having worked with mortuaries for a while, I've had a lot of experience with people who died from natural, and not-so-natural, deaths. I'm not looking to kill somebody, but I can't say that I'd think twice or lose any sleep over it. :ne_nau: I might be a little paranoid for a couple weeks, but I wouldn't grieve over them or my decision.

And you're right... Murder is ALWAYS wrong. Killing is not, though.

[James_B_Wads2000]

And you're right... Murder is ALWAYS wrong. Killing is not, though.

Killing, murder. Ta-may-toe, ta-ma-ta. :nod:



James

[ilanimaka]

And you're right... Murder is ALWAYS wrong. Killing is not, though.

Killing, murder. Ta-may-toe, ta-ma-ta. :nod:


James

So says you. More like potato, vodka. One is a necessary staple. The other is generally worthless.

If Joe Shmoe and I met in a restaurant and I shot him dead for no apparent reason, I'd have murdered him. (vodka) Same situation, except he broke into my home and I shot him dead. (potato)

The former version would have me rot in prison and I'd deserve it. The latter would have me annoyed at patching the holes in my wall and the cost of cleanup.

[Don]

And you're right... Murder is ALWAYS wrong. Killing is not, though.

Killing, murder. Ta-may-toe, ta-ma-ta. :nod:
James

Disagree James.

Killing should always be the option of last resort, but there is a difference between killing and murder.
The intent of the person taking life is the determining factor. Killing for fun, greed, power, gratification, is clearly murder. While killing to protect ones own life or the lives of family or innocents, if taken as the option of last resort, is not murder.

Of course there are grey areas. I have been trying to define those in the political section for some time, but there is clearly a difference between killing and murder. This is the clear standard in most of the world

[James_B_Wads2000]

So says you. More like potato, vodka. One is a necessary staple. The other is generally worthless.

If Joe Shmoe and I met in a restaurant and I shot him dead for no apparent reason, I'd have murdered him. (vodka) Same situation, except he broke into my home and I shot him dead. (potato)

The former version would have me rot in prison and I'd deserve it. The latter would have me annoyed at patching the holes in my wall and the cost of cleanup.

[i]

[ilanimaka]

The end result is that somebody is dead. The difference is that one values their life more than the other. Like I said previously, if you break into my house, you don't place much value on your own life. I see no reason that I should either. You're just taking up precious space and resources that could be better used by somebody of more value to mankind.

[Deathcricket]

The end result is that somebody is dead. The difference is that one values their life more than the other. Like I said in another post, if you break into my house, you don't place much value on your own life. I see no reason that I should either. You're just taking up precious space and resources that could be better used by somebody of more value to mankind.


Human life only possesses the value of our decisions.

I like this new guy! Great way of putting it I think. I was going the route of judging a person by their intent and choices they make. But this is harder to argue with.


:2thumbs:

[James_B_Wads2000]

The end result is that somebody is dead. The difference is that one values their life more than the other. Like I said in another post, if you break into my house, you don't place much value on your own life. I see no reason that I should either. You're just taking up precious space and resources that could be better used by somebody of more value to mankind.

I guess the real difference is that you are omnipotent and know whose life has value and whose dose not. I personally am just a mere mortal and will not rely on such small amounts of irrelevant evidence to determine the value of someone

[Don]

[quote=ilanimaka]The end result is that somebody is dead. The difference is that one values their life more than the other. Like I said in another post, if you break into my house, you don't place much value on your own life. I see no reason that I should either. You're just taking up precious space and resources that could be better used by somebody of more value to mankind.

I guess the real difference is that you are omnipotent and know whose life has value and whose dose not. I personally am just a mere mortal and will not rely on such small amounts of irrelevant evidence to determine the value of someone

[BruteForce]

Sheer comic gold as usual.

As usual, James - showing your girlish and sheepish ways.

I promise you, the first time a crime is committed against you and/or yours, you'll scream for vengeance (much like America did after 9/11).

Somebody gets on my property with intent to do evil, I promise, they will swim with the fish. Gone are the days when somebody (or people) will commit a minor crime. These days, murder is committed for the most trivial of crimes.

I will (much like others will) defend my family (and/or neighbors) with deadly force.

Shall we again explore Sheep -v- Sheep Dogs?

[James_B_Wads2000]

[quote=James_B_Wads2000][quote=ilanimaka]The end result is that somebody is dead. The difference is that one values their life more than the other. Like I said in another post, if you break into my house, you don't place much value on your own life. I see no reason that I should either. You're just taking up precious space and resources that could be better used by somebody of more value to mankind.

I guess the real difference is that you are omnipotent and know whose life has value and whose dose not. I personally am just a mere mortal and will not rely on such small amounts of irrelevant evidence to determine the value of someone

[oldno7]

Theres murder--theres killing--theres suicide.........

Suicide is what one does when he enters my house un-invited.

I did not kill Joe Burglar--he committed suicide!
:nod:

[ilanimaka]

Theres murder--theres killing--theres suicide.........

Suicide is what one does when he enters my house un-invited.

I did not kill Joe Burglar--he committed suicide!
:nod:

:lol8: That's a great way to look at it. Suicide by stupidity. :popcorn: :five:

[RedMan]

[quote=ilanimaka]The end result is that somebody is dead. The difference is that one values their life more than the other. Like I said in another post, if you break into my house, you don't place much value on your own life. I see no reason that I should either. You're just taking up precious space and resources that could be better used by somebody of more value to mankind.

I guess the real difference is that you are omnipotent and know whose life has value and whose dose not. I personally am just a mere mortal and will not rely on such small amounts of irrelevant evidence to determine the value of someone

[BruteForce]

My God James you are the definition of Douche Bag.

I've come to the conclusion that a) he's led a sheltered and protected life and hasn't had any exposure to real world issues or b) he's just a troll egging us on to endless streams of messages to up his post count.

In either case, it's not worth the effort.

If it's a) however, one day he'll be put in a situation where he will surely regret his sheltered ways (SHEEP!).

[ilanimaka]

[quote=ilanimaka]The end result is that somebody is dead. The difference is that one values their life more than the other. Like I said in another post, if you break into my house, you don't place much value on your own life. I see no reason that I should either. You're just taking up precious space and resources that could be better used by somebody of more value to mankind.

I guess the real difference is that you are omnipotent and know whose life has value and whose dose not. I personally am just a mere mortal and will not rely on such small amounts of irrelevant evidence to determine the value of someone

[James_B_Wads2000]

My God James you are the definition of Douche Bag.

I went back and was reading some of you early posts on Bogley and you used to be such a cool guy. Lots of info on Utah outdoors and genuinely a nice guy. What the Hell happen? Did you cat get ran over or something? Now everything is f**k off this and douche bag that. And people say I am angry?

Guess what RedMan? I already know you think I am a douche bag so why not try and muster all the wit and counter the argument instead of the endless personal attacks?




a) he's led a sheltered and protected life and hasn't had any exposure to real world issues
b) he's just a troll egging us on to endless streams of messages to up his post count.



It

[JP]

What the Hell happen? Did you cat get ran over or something? Now everything is f**k off this and douche bag that.

instead of the endless personal attacks?

So it must be a). Because I am not dick-hard about killing people I must
You do have that affect on people Jimmy, you have that ability to make people hate you. Stop asking why. It didn't take a car to RUN over anyone or something else, it plain and simply is YOU!

Endless personal attacks :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: My sides are hurting :lol8: :lol8: :lol8: How's that mirror looking now Jimmy, how's that black pot you own :mrgreen:

It seems the only thing you're hard up for is, well, gays...lol :mrgreen:

[James_B_Wads2000]

I personal attack you JP because you are a troll that is so retarded that you are incapable of having a serious discussion. You just say shit to get a rise out of people because you have no interest in learning or educating. I mean you are the epitome of Stupid White Redneck America. Every debate we have had here I have mopped the floor with you dumbass because things like logic and reason are alien to you. In fact I feel kind of bad because it is like pushing over a cerebral palsy kid on crutches. I really get little pleasure out of it, because it is so easy.

But any time you want to discuss, argue or debate an issue with facts I will guarantee that it will end in you calling me names or posting 1,000 emoticons because you are too stupid to counter any of my arguments.

Mumble back whatever you want, I will not respond to you. You are not worth my time

[JP]

[quote=James_B_Wads2000]I personal attack you

with facts I will guarantee that it will end in you calling me names or posting 1,000 emoticons because you are too stupid to counter any of my arguments.

Mumble back whatever you want, I will not respond to you. You are not worth my time

[jumar]

Tresspassing/burgulary is not a justifiable use of deadly force IMO. Deadly force is justified when lives are in danger not property.

I agree :five:
I should clarify...I personally wouldn't take a life just to save property. Not worth the risk for me. I would use deadly force if someone's life was in danger. But I support laws that protect people's rights to defend their life and property.

[BruteForce]

:nono:

[James_B_Wads2000]

I guess that makes two of us that will probably one day meet James in person. Must be nice in his secluded, sheltered life to toss out statements so idly. I doubt he'd have the balls to do so in person.

Personal threats? Is that how you will win the argument?

I guess my work here is done. :wavey:




James

[Don]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/mtllude/pot-kettle.gif

[BruteForce]

DELETED.

Funny, but DELETED!

[JP]

DELETED.

Funny, but DELETED!
:lol8: :lol8:


http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/mtllude/pot-kettle.gif
Now that would make Jimmy one true Avi :mrgreen: