In-line figure 8

[Scott Card]

Anyone know a link to, or have a description of (preferably photo description) an in-line figure 8? Also, what do you use it for? :popcorn:

[Iceaxe]

I've seen it used to equalize anchors....

Inline Figure 8 Knot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThW5WISdD6M

[ratagonia]

Anyone know a link to, or have a description of (preferably photo description) an in-line figure 8? Also, what do you use it for? :popcorn:

May I recommend the Alpine Butterfly as a better alternative, in all circumstances. Mostly because I have trouble tying a directional 8, and with practice no trouble tying an Alpine Butterfly.

Tom

[moab mark]

Scott here is a website that shows most of the knots being tied.
http://animatedknots.com/indexclimbing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
It's a great site.
Mark

[ratagonia]

Anyone know a link to, or have a description of (preferably photo description) an in-line figure 8? Also, what do you use it for? :popcorn:

May I recommend the Alpine Butterfly as a better alternative, in all circumstances. Mostly because I have trouble tying a directional 8, and with practice no trouble tying an Alpine Butterfly.

Tom

YouTube instructionals on the A.B. are particularly poor. Can you wait until next week?

T

[Scott Card]

Thanks guys. Most helpful! Tom, I agree with the Alpine Butterfly. I can tie that in my sleep and frankly I use the butterfly all the time to tie stuff down on my truck.

[Scott Card]

Anyone know a link to, or have a description of (preferably photo description) an in-line figure 8? Also, what do you use it for? :popcorn:

May I recommend the Alpine Butterfly as a better alternative, in all circumstances. Mostly because I have trouble tying a directional 8, and with practice no trouble tying an Alpine Butterfly.

Tom

YouTube instructionals on the A.B. are particularly poor. Can you wait until next week?

TYes, I can wait till next week. I am just bored and going through the ACA knot check lists and that is one knot I was not familiar with.

[trackrunner]

Anyone know a link to, or have a description of (preferably photo description) an in-line figure 8? Also, what do you use it for? :popcorn:

I know Dave Black shows some uses for this knot in his book. I'll look it up. I do remember this knot in the rescue section of the book.


http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movies-Music-Games/Canyoneering/2371955/product.html

[oldno7]

Anyone know a link to, or have a description of (preferably photo description) an in-line figure 8? Also, what do you use it for? :popcorn:

May I recommend the Alpine Butterfly as a better alternative, in all circumstances. Mostly because I have trouble tying a directional 8, and with practice no trouble tying an Alpine Butterfly.

Tom

YouTube instructionals on the A.B. are particularly poor. Can you wait until next week?

TYes, I can wait till next week. I am just bored and going through the ACA knot check lists and that is one knot I was not familiar with.

If you are looking to do an inline the way the ACA teaches, Shanes video is wrong.

[Scott Card]

Anyone know a link to, or have a description of (preferably photo description) an in-line figure 8? Also, what do you use it for? :popcorn:

May I recommend the Alpine Butterfly as a better alternative, in all circumstances. Mostly because I have trouble tying a directional 8, and with practice no trouble tying an Alpine Butterfly.

Tom

YouTube instructionals on the A.B. are particularly poor. Can you wait until next week?

TYes, I can wait till next week. I am just bored and going through the ACA knot check lists and that is one knot I was not familiar with.

If you are looking to do an inline the way the ACA teaches, Shanes video is wrong. This begs the question, if the knot is tied and dressed correctly, is there a wrong way to tie it? :ne_nau: Will the ACA not pass you off if you tie the knot properly but you don't use "their" method of tying it? Now I am confused.

[moab mark]

So the next question is Oldno 7 what does the aca do different?

[oldno7]

This is how I was taught.
I'll see if I can post the correct progression.
You start your first loop in the opposite direction you intend to pull from.

[oldno7]

Scott
Are studying knots for a canyon leader exam?

[skianddive]

So the next question is Oldno 7 what does the aca do different?
Based on the tying sequence that Old showed, and these pictures of the in-line figure-8 from the Youtube video and the one from AnimatedKnots.com, there is no difference in the knot - just how it is tied.

And I learned the in-line figure-8 from the ACA, too, but I learned how to tie it even differently, starting with a "S" shape and progressing from there.

For usefulness, this knot used to be taught as part of the mechanism to tighten the guide line in a guided rappel (preferably when the rope is wet to offset the heat that can build up as a result of friction).

And, Scott, if you're going for your ACA Merit Badge, let me know because I'm selling really pretty, green sashes on eBay for you guys to display them on! :roflol:

However, I do not accept ACA Points - only cash and PayPal! :haha:

[rcwild]

Based on the tying sequence that Old showed, and these pictures of the in-line figure-8 from the Youtube video and the one from AnimatedKnots.com, there is no difference in the knot - just how it is tied.

Not true. The blue one is tied wrong. The red one is correct. Look closer. To be tied correctly the rope and the loop must exit the knot side-by-side.

[denaliguide]

i have been climbing over 30 years now and am not usually stumped by the knots that i have seen discussed here. but this inline 8 is a new one.

i'm not sure why you wouldn't just use an 8 on a bight? most likely the 8 on a bight is a stronger knot. the inline 8 does look easier to untie after loading though. and while the alpine butterfly is a good middleman knot for alpine travel i don't know as i would use it as my first choice for a intermediate anchor knot. which i am assuming that is what the purpose of this knot is. it certainly would not work for a middleman tie-in for glacier travel as it appears to be a directional knot. possibly you might use it on a fixed line situation or in an attempt to equalize the load on multiple inline anchors, but then there couldn't be any possible change in the direction of pull.

[oldno7]

Les
You are correct in that it is directional, usually used in conjunction with tensioning lines, as Lee stated in a canyon situation possibly tensioning a guide line for a guided rappel.


on a side note:

Lee
I don't know you from adam but your continual attacks on the ACA become tiresome. I guess you had a bad experience with Rich some years ago, so the ACA is not only Rich but many other capable canyoneers. Do you have a beef with all of us? Surely you wouldn't deny that Rich has taught many canyoneers and made the sport inheritantly safer?
Spare me the you should have known him back when, I really am tired of the contoversy
I enjoy the sport and I enjoy learning, I've learned alot from many people and hope to continue to do so. If you have intelligent things to add to this discussion jump in and help us out.

[Scott Card]

Scott
Are studying knots for a canyon leader exam?That is/was the plan. My Mapleton homies and I would like to have the "merit badge". Frankly, the skills are nice to know and I do want the tool box full. We are being asked to assist other Venture groups fairly regularly now and we would like to continue to learn and then use that which best works for us in any given situation. I for one did not have a climbing background so all this stuff is good for me to learn. I know some here have issues with the ACA, I don't. They offer the training, they have an organized lesson plan and a test. I will try to stay out of any recent or past tiffs that may exist and just try to learn. Unfortunately, I am committed to a teaching assignment and a church event that I am incharge of so.... dang it, I will have to learn vicariously for now from the boys that go next week. One day I will go. I can't believe that I have sent two groups now and I have been aced out of the training for other prior committments twice now! :frustrated:

[oldno7]

Sounds like all the right reasons, best of luck to you and your scout group.

e-mail me if you have any questions or need any help preparing for the exam. cougar at netutah dot com

[ratagonia]

i have been climbing over 30 years now and am not usually stumped by the knots that i have seen discussed here. but this inline 8 is a new one.

i'm not sure why you wouldn't just use an 8 on a bight? most likely the 8 on a bight is a stronger knot. the inline 8 does look easier to untie after loading though. and while the alpine butterfly is a good middleman knot for alpine travel i don't know as i would use it as my first choice for a intermediate anchor knot. which i am assuming that is what the purpose of this knot is. it certainly would not work for a middleman tie-in for glacier travel as it appears to be a directional knot. possibly you might use it on a fixed line situation or in an attempt to equalize the load on multiple inline anchors, but then there couldn't be any possible change in the direction of pull.

We're all on sailing ships using sisal and hemp rope, so every iota of strength counts.... oh, wait, we're not!

For low load applications (ie, everything we do), 8 on a bight is probably just as good. The directional 8 has the advantage that the "through" direction is pretty close to full strength, which is not true of an 8 on a bight. The Alpine Butterfly is probably inbetween, and stays together when loaded "through" better than an 8 on a bight.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Based on the tying sequence that Old showed, and these pictures of the in-line figure-8 from the Youtube video and the one from AnimatedKnots.com, there is no difference in the knot - just how it is tied.

Not true. The blue one is tied wrong. The red one is correct. Look closer. To be tied correctly the rope and the loop must exit the knot side-by-side.

Tie them both and lay down side by side. Tug on the blue one and you can probably get it to un-knot.

Which is why I personally don't like this knot - it is possible to screw it up, and the inspection is too complex for my feeble intellect.

Alpine Butterfly RULES!!! :rockon:

... and I don't see any uses where the directional 8 is superior.

Tom :moses:

[rcwild]

Tie them both and lay down side by side. Tug on the blue one and you can probably get it to un-knot.

Probably not. The debate between tying it correctly and incorrectly is a matter of strength.


Which is why I personally don't like this knot - it is possible to screw it up, and the inspection is too complex for my feeble intellect.

Uh ... it is possible to screw up any knot. Keys to tying the directional eight correctly include: (a) start with an "S", then flip it to create the cross-over shown in Kurt's first photo; (b) keep the loop in the same plane when you pass it around the main rope.

Inspection of the inline eight is quite simple when you know what to look for -- the loop and the rope must lay side-by-side where they come out of the rope.


... and I don't see any uses where the directional 8 is superior.

The directional eight produces a loop that runs parallel to the rope. This makes it ideal for some tensioning systems. It works better in some anchor equalization applications because it is very simple to adjust the size of the loop. It also comes in handy for some rescue applications.

[oldno7]

Just an observation:

My carpet is looking kinda dirty there and it got me to thinking..........

I would bet a beer at Oscars that Tom has either orange or green shag carpet in his house. :mrgreen:


edited: Not that theres anything wrong with that.

[hank moon]

Alpine Butterfly RULES!!! :rockon:

... and I don't see any uses where the directional 8 is superior.

x2 for superfluity

Inline 8 is for knotting pleasure function