Getting Started Backpacking

[R]

For many years now I have been a day hiker, but I am finding that many of the destinations on my A-list are deep in the back there. I haven't been backpacking since 1990, and I want to get back into it. So I need some advice and recommendations about getting re-started. I don't currently have any of the following: backpack, lightweight tent, lightweight sleeping bag, or portable camp stove. I do have day-hike stuff like a med kit, compass, maps, water bottles, hiking shoes, etc.

Keep in mind that I am not ready to spend a lot of money. So... word?

Thanks in advance. -Richard

[DiscGo]

I would say start with the backpack. You can use full size sleeping bags, & tents (weight pending) but the backpack is a good place to start.

[R]

That might be the area in which I am least knowledgeable. I am 6' 1" and weight about 170 pounds. I am in pretty good condition. Do you have some idea of the size and capacity of a backpack for me? Thanks. -R

[R]

Also, who can tell me about bivvy sacks/tents?

[asdf]

I hate Bivy sacks, I feel like I am stuck in a ziplock bag. If you are going solo it will deffinetely be your best bet for saving weight.

Do you check http://www.steepandcheap.com/
My brother set up the instant alerts and picked up an arcteryx Pack, Big Angus Bag w/ Pad, and a sick 2man tent for dirt cheep over the course of a few weeks.... altogether he saved almost 400 bucks from the sticker price.

Steep and Cheap FTW!

[RedMan]

Richard,

Alone I like a Bivy. Packing in pairs we take a tent and share the load.
I have a Cabelas XPG Bivy, $99 and weighs 15oz, beats 3-4lbs for a tent.

[denaliguide]

for a pack the first thing to decide is how much you plan to carry. then you need to decide on internal or external frame. internal carry better but external allow you to strap on akward loads. many of the large packs have compression straps on the sides so they will carry many different size loads comfortably. also the weight of the empty pack must be considered. some will weigh over 6lbs empty. i would suggest that you go to a store which carries packs and try on the different packs with a knowledgeable clerk. then go look on ebay for something that is close to what you are looking for. if you are on a budget that is the way to go. i have picked up plenty of quality gear on ebay over the years. most of the packs i have were made by lowe alpine systems. pick a recognizeable brand and it should last for years.

tent, again how much do you want to carry and where are you going to use it. snow camping will require a heavier tent than trips into the canyons. i personally don't carry a tent in the canyons. i have a silicone impregnated tarp which only weighs 1.5lb for 10'x12'. bivy sacks are to tight for me to sleep comfortably, but i do use one for solo winter trips. again there are lots of models of tents to chose from. just have to decide what it's primary use will be. don't go cheap on your tent. get a name brand and it will last years. i am still using a north face ve-24 that i bought in 1982 on my hunting trips in alaska. but its one of 4 tents that i have.

stove, you can hardly go wrong with msr stoves. most are multi-fuel and will boil a pot of water quickly. you will need to decide on whether you want to carry liquid fuel in a fuel bottle or the gas canister type of fuel. each has its advantages and disadvantages. for an ultralight-weight stove you can make one using a couple of pop cans and burn alcohol (heet).
just google pepsi can stove and you will see numerous designs. i use a pepsi can stove on desert solo trips where the only thing i need to heat is water for is a cup of tea or soup. (most of my food for solo trips is non-cook) takes longer to boil water so not real good for the long simmer type cooking in my opinion. msr whisperlite is very popular.

sleeping bag, down is king for warmth and lightweight as long as you keep it dry. otherwise a synthetic bag is the better option. some of the synthetics out there today are almost as light as down and compress just as well. decide what the lowest temps you plan on sleeping in and go from there. if you sleep cold you will want a warmer bag. i use a lighter bag and sleep in my clothes if i need to. i dont think that one sleeping bag is all you need in the closet. i have several and can chose accordingly depending on the trip. my north face cats meow gets the most use.

so like i said before go to a shop in your area and talk to the staff there and get sized up. then look on ebay. won't take long and you will be well outfitted with what you need. good luck.

[R]

This is all exactly the kind of info I need. Thanks everyone, and keep it coming. FYI, I imagine my most common destinations will be in canyons and wilderness areas in Utah, Arizona and New Mexico. I don't think I'll be doing much alpine backpacking. -R

[RedRoxx]

Get some good quality stuff---sleeping bag and shelter and pad. It can make a tough trip bearable--storms, colder than normal, etc. So far the suggestions of ebay and steep and cheap are good, as well as online sales of sites such as Sierra Design, backcountry.com, Moosejaw, etc.

IMO a pack with around 2800-3200 cubic inches can do for a long weekend or longer if in summer and no need for extras in clothing et al. If I am out for near a week or longer I have a 4200cu bag I use. I like Osprey packs myself. I just got a Golite pack that looks good but I haven't used yet.


Tents--I have a Black Diamond Hilight I think it is about 3 lbs and large enough for two people, it's a single wall and a pain with condensation in wet conditions, but in minimal rain or light wind is very good and roomy. In winter I usually use a bivy, it is warmer and I use a piece of sil tarp to make a cooking shelter. If I am in canyon country such as southern utah I usually just carry a small tarp/poncho, as I use natural shelters to camp in.

Many good sleeping bags. I have a couple of WM bags, these are expensive and rarely on sale, but they are very accurate for temp ratings.

Just carry one pot and stove and heat water and eat out of the bag to save weight. I usually repack my dehydrated food into freezer ziplocks.

I don't carry a water filter and use Aqua Mira and pick my water sources with care.

Most new backpackers carry too much weight and therefore get turned off by the experience. Get the basics, try a short trip out, and see what does and doesn't work. Get rid of the excess on ebay or Craigs list.

Have fun --- can't wait to see the photo results---

[Cirrus2000]

Cool, Richard! Great advice on this thread.

Steep & Cheap - absolutely; I live in a whole other country, but I love this place.

MSR stove - love my Whisperlite, but for 1 or 2 nights, I just carry cold-eatin' foods (except in very cold weather - then hot food is essential. And yes to eating out of the bag!)

Pack - I use a basic 65 liter (4000 ci?) internal frame pack I've had for 12 years, but considering a new one. Help with testing and fitting is crucial.

Sleeping bag - Get a 20

[stefan]

whatever pack you decide on, make sure it fits and fits well, it makes a world of difference carrying weight all day.

i've really enjoyed my osprey silhouette i bought in '97. i guess the latest incarnation of the pack is the Aether series. i was in alaska the summer before i bought it and did a long trip and borrowed a friend's Osprey Motherload which was their biggest pack at the time. i was really impressed by how well the pack fit my body and how well it carried the weight and moved with my body. beyond being a well-made pack with nice features and locally made, this was the the predominant reason i selected osprey. i've really enjoyed this pack also for ski touring on multiday trips. i also really liked the feature it had at the time that i could attach a variety of small backpacks (that they made as accessories) onto their vector system. this maintained a good center of mass and i found this invaluable for short day/evening hikes from camp.

about 5 years ago, a section of material that holds the aluminum tubing frame had torn through at the base of the pack (darn sandstone). i called osprey up and they told me to mail it to them. within 2-3 weeks i had the pack returned to me fixed beautifully (no charge) and just in time for another trip.

i can't really speak directly to the differences and improvements of their current set of packs, but if they are anything like the packs during the late 90s then i would recommend testing them out in a store with weight. they seem to be getting a little busier looking, personally i like toned-down looking packs, and theirs used to be that way.

recently i had a friend give up his dana designs pack in favor of an osprey which fit him much better. he's been happy with it. on the other hand, other friends of mine love dana designs.



but i think of a backpack like a pair of shoes ... you're feeling them all day long, and they better feel damn good so you can enjoy the wonderful space you're wandering in.

[MajorHavoK]

I too backpacked a lot in my early years and just got back into it a couple of years ago.. One thing I remembered however was that weight is everything and I like to be comfortable after carring 30-40 pounds up a mountain all day.. But some things have changed a lot in the last 10-15 years.. Others haven't but the most important thing is that you need to figure out what you'll be happy with. It's pointless to kill yourself to carry gear you don't need and won't use, and equally pointless to have an easy hike just to be hungry/thirsty/wet/cold and uncomfortable when you aren't hiking.

To put it simply, I don't think you should cheap out on your gear. Your needs and requirements will change significantly after your first trip. If you are like me, you'll try to save money and make shortcuts and wish you hadn't later. Usually I buy the cheaper option, hate it and end up buying the nicer option later and end up spending more than if I'd just bought the good gear to begin with. If possible, I'd rent or use a friends gear to start with until you have a really good idea of what you need. Below are some of my experiences with backpacking gear and hopefully you can get something out of it.

For pack I'd say wait for a good sale at an outdoor store like REI.. There are employees there that are exceedingly helpful.. They will fit/adjust just about any pack to you and make very good suggestions.. I bought an rei ridgeline pack for aboutt 175.. Saw them a lot cheaper later on sale.. Its my first internal frame and I won't go to external. I don't get snagged on trees/brush and save weight on all the bungees and straps I had to use to (usually) keep everything stable on the pack.. Also protects my stuff from from getting wet, dirty, and torn.. (or lost if it falls off the pack!)

I have a few sleeping bags for different uses.. But my favorite is big agnes lost ranger (long) 15 degree down bag.. For one it's made for people larger than 5'5 and 140lbs and allows me to stretch out and even turn over in my sleep. If I'm going somewhere extremely cold I can even fit my REI sahara 30 degree down bag inside of it and still be very comfortable. It fits the Big Agnes(or other brands) sleeping pads (20x78x1.5 or 2.5) in a sleeve on the bottom so you don't slip/roll off of it at night which I love. They don't put down fill on the bottom half of the bag which is ok because it saves weight and the compressed down you are laying on does nothing to keep you warm anyway.. Its all in the pad.. I also have two pads.. I started with the Big agnes air core but never really liked sleeping on the "ribs".. I picked up a big agnes "hinman" pad. These are very hard to find and I had to order it off the internet. Its warmer and flat so I'm more comfortable with it.. I also is self-filling because it has foam in it, but it doesn't fold up as small as the air core. It may be a little too warm unless it gets chilly at night where you plan on camping.. But you can always unzip it if needed..

For tent I say the lightest smallest that you can live with..and keeps you dry.. I'm about to get a silnyl tarptent that's less than 2 lbs and sleeps 2 plus gear..

I never know when or where I'm going to find water so I pack 6-7 liters.. 3 in a dromedary bladder with the tube and bite valve to drink while walking.. And the rest in nalgene bottles.. Water is most of the weight I carry but I find that being well hydrated offsets the extra weight.. I use water for everything when packing.. Coffee.. Re-hydrating my food and washing my cookware.. So any decent source of water that's clear and running even a trickle.. I filter and refill my bottles.. I also get sick from the purification tablets.. So I recommend getting a high end water filter.. Nothing worse than hiking 20 miles with a sick stomach.. (Or worse..) Get something from MSR or another with high rated filtration AND that filters quickly.. They all have hand pumps but it shouldn't take 5 mins to fill a liter bottle.

I like the earlier suggestion of the heet/denatured alchohol stoves.. But the soda can types I've tried weren't that reliable and sometimes "burst" in half from internal pressure.. There are some nice heavy duty titanium ones on the market for about 20 bucks that won't explode in your face and barely weigh a couple ounces plus fuel.. I also have a msr pocket rocket that's tiny and doesn't way much.. But you can't use the iso-butane in below freezing temps and the cans for it seem to always run out on me so I carry two cans all the time. The large size snow peak brand of fuel seems to work well for me on a 2 night trip.. Plus their cans seem to last longer than the other brands I've used..

Don't forget the little things though like a nice headlamp. I had great luck with the cheapo energizer brand ones that had spotlights, area lights, even red light to keep your night vision when stretching the last few miles of trail in the dark... BUT in a slight rain the damned thing got wet and ruined. Ever since then I have used the Princeton EOS. It has a true 1watt spot and is regulated so it's always the same brightness until the battery is dead. It's also is waterproof.

Walmart has these great biodegradable baby-wipes that dissolve in 10 days. These are great for cleaning dishes/hands and even their designed purpose and I can not feel bad about burying those under some light soil off the trail. MUCH better than bringing toilet paper!!

Hope this helps!

[Wasatch Rebel]

For a sleeping bag, you can get away with a 2-3 pound bag for the desert canyon areas. I slept in a 3 lb up on the King's Peak trail and didn't get cold--even though there was ice on the nearby stream in the morning. It just depends on the fill. The temp ratings are only a guideline--there are no regulations regarding them---each manufacturer places their own ratings on the bags.

I got a great lightweight tent at REI for about $100. I love it. Easy to put up and take down and roomy. Before that I was using my old orange pup tent that I bought in the 1970s.

I also need to someday replace my 1970s Jansport backpack. It doesn't even have a strap going across the chest.

Some of this stuff you might be able to pick up on Ebay or even at garage sales for cheap if you're trying to save money. You can research Ebay items easily enough by Googling them.

[DOSS]

There are some good sites out there with a ton of strictly backpacking info.. check out http://practicalbackpacking.com (one of my faves).

I am very fond of Gregory backpacks and the adjust-ability of them. Whatever one you get go to a store with a bunch of different backpacks and try them on.. you will probobly average 35lbs for pack weight so grab gear and stick it in there while you are at the store and walk around with it in there. if they won't let you do that or something similar go somewhere else as a empty pack and a weighted pack will sit differently on you :)

I second going with a GOOD tent, I have had a Mountain hardwear "room with a view" since 96(?) with more than 50 nights a year average ranging from blizzards to desert and I just recently (this year) had to put a new coat of waterproofing on it for the first time. - Solo I do like a good Bivy I currently am using a Mil spec bivy and bag and while it is a bit short for my 6'4" self I am OK in it and it keeps the weight down :) then again I have used my Mil spec poncho as a Tarp tent (with or without my hammock ) and had no problems with it.

Sleeping bags. what everyone else has said is good

Stoves I have are the MSR pocket rocket for 8-10 thousand feet, a packafeather alky or my cat eye stove for below 8 thousand feet and a old peak 1 Colman liquid fuel stove for over 10 thousand feet. I don't mind taking a little longer for a meal as I usually have some time to relax at night and in the morning - Im in the woods not rushing :)

the short of it is you have to have enough gear for you to be comfortable but stay light so that you don't feel like you are dragging an elk up the mountain the whole time. I know some people that have a base weight of 10lbs before food and I am not comfortable with the gear they take and they say I take too much.. its all about you man

[cachehiker]

There's not much I can add to what's been said. I only do about 4-5 legitimate nights per year in the backcountry but IMHO the best place to start is with the sleeping bag. Having the right one gets you a better night's sleep and leaves an extra 100 or so cubic inches available in the pack. If your pack still leaves a little something to be desired, go synthetic. If you've got a good pack that will keep the bag dry no matter what, go with down.

#2 would be the tent and #3 (goes against most of the opinions here) would be a solid breathable rain shell. You obviously need a pack but I think actually borrowing a suitable one would be easier that borrowing a sleeping bag (ick!) You can do an overnighter or two without a stove and progress to a trip or two where carrying all your water is no problem but setting up camp totally soaked or after dark because your shell isn't waterproof or doesn't breathe well enough to make good time in a light rain sucks. There's nothing wrong with picking up a stove and the rest a piece at a time as you go. It also makes it more likely that you'll get what will work best for you.

Most of my backcountry nights are done with an old, slightly heavy 3200 in

[R]

Glad this thread has caught fire again. Thanks for the words, everybody!

[neilether]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I need some enlightenment. I am going to purchase a new backpack this spring for some anticipated summer adventures. Is there a big issue with purchasing a 5000 in^3 pack in anticipation of some longer trips, and still using that pack on a 1 or 2 night trip? My theory is that you can always leave stuff out (as empty space doesn't weigh much), but if I go with a smaller one I'm afraid I would regret it on longer journeys. I understand that there will be a weight penalty in the pack itself being larger. Any thoughts?

[uintahiker]

A few more thoughts-
If you're fine with used gear, you can get some great deals off of craigslist or at REI garage sales. I'd get a pack from craigslist- they're a lot cheaper than finding one new.

Go with the bigger pack. If you're split between a bigger and smaller pack, buy the big one. There's no problem in most cases using a week long pack for a 1-2 nighter.

[DOSS]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I need some enlightenment. I am going to purchase a new backpack this spring for some anticipated summer adventures. Is there a big issue with purchasing a 5000 in^3 pack in anticipation of some longer trips, and still using that pack on a 1 or 2 night trip? My theory is that you can always leave stuff out (as empty space doesn't weigh much), but if I go with a smaller one I'm afraid I would regret it on longer journeys. I understand that there will be a weight penalty in the pack itself being larger. Any thoughts?

empty weight is not that much? my big pack is a full pound more than my over night pack, also if you have the room you get to where you always want to fill it instead of just taking what you need (unless you have serious self control). I would get 2 packs.. pick up something used but still in good condition -- lots of people buy gear new, find out "damn this is hard work" and never go again only to sell their 1X used stuff on Craigs list and KSL a year later at a fraction of the price..

[neilether]

empty weight is not that much? my big pack is a full pound more than my over night pack...

You've proven my point right there for me. Regardless of what anybody else says, 1 pound does not make enough difference to me to justify the cost of an additional pack. It's the same with mountain bikes.......


also if you have the room you get to where you always want to fill it instead of just taking what you need (unless you have serious self control)....

Now this is a good point that I hadn't thought of. I can see myself having a 47 pound pack to do a 4 mile overnight hike.....I'll have to take that into consideration. A follow up question, if the gear weight in the pack is properly distributed, empty space on top shouldn't really be noticeable right? Or am I trying to talk myself into that "truth."

[neilether]

A few more thoughts-
If you're fine with used gear, you can get some great deals off of craigslist or at REI garage sales. I'd get a pack from craigslist- they're a lot cheaper than finding one new.

Go with the bigger pack. If you're split between a bigger and smaller pack, buy the big one. There's no problem in most cases using a week long pack for a 1-2 nighter.

That's what I was hoping to hear as my budget will not allow me to purchase two separate packs. I've had experience trying to fit essential stuff in a pack that was too small, but never had a pack that was too big. Thanks for the advice.

[DOSS]

empty weight is not that much? my big pack is a full pound more than my over night pack...

You've proven my point right there for me. Regardless of what anybody else says, 1 pound does not make enough difference to me to justify the cost of an additional pack. It's the same with mountain bikes.......


also if you have the room you get to where you always want to fill it instead of just taking what you need (unless you have serious self control)....

Now this is a good point that I hadn't thought of. I can see myself having a 47 pound pack to do a 4 mile overnight hike.....I'll have to take that into consideration. A follow up question, if the gear weight in the pack is properly distributed, empty space on top shouldn't really be noticeable right? Or am I trying to talk myself into that "truth."

I would argue that 1 lbs makes a difference but everyone packs their own way..

on using the bigger pack for smaller loads you can get it distributed just fine.. you may have to play with how you load stuff but you should be fine :)

[timejinx]

light and strong easy buy mil surplus IMO but then again im used to working with less like not playing cards in my tent but doing it in the guy who brought the 7 lb tent lol this tent is just for putting your stuff in and sleep besides how much time should you really be in your tent

get your self two of the mill spec issue ripstop ponchos
http://www.qm-supply.com/zenstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_11&products_id=104
38 dollars each remember you need 2

and 5 bungee cords, any ruckpack thats light doesnt need to be water proof again I like the green army ruck without the frame you can buy a dry bag preferably a light one that has no zipper top just folds makes it cheaper and lighter again mil spec fits perfect in the mil spec ruck. or a trash bag lol it works but take extra in case it rips. besides you should always have some trash bags anyway when you pack
im also a big fan of the mil spec sleeping bags there 3 lay so you can choose between light=(green) warmer=(black) and a waterproof shell=(camo) normally run with the middle layer (black) or both g&b very light if you go with the hole thing and its stuff sacks down quite small also if you wrap all you gear in the shell you dont need a dry bag for light to moderate wet conditions but no river/stream crossing.

anyway back to the tent the
mil issue ponchos=(camo) (dont know about solid green one if it has double sided snaps. anyway snap 3 of the for sides together they are about 5x5 or 6x6 squares i forget snape the two together to make your tent take ductape 3 sides if you want to cut down on wind or leave open for air transfer with your 5 bungees you can connect to each corner 4 of the cords you will see the metal rivited eyelids on the corners work great attach to 4 trees and for the 5th get a tree that you can lean and bend down over the center tie of the hood portion wrap a bungee and hook it to a tree you wont believe how nice this tent is i loved it in the mil and it was light and easy no stupid poles just need trees positioned semi correctly in a square or you can construct with some rocks if your in the southern area of utah also you can make an over hange lean over you bag if you like sleeping out side but dont want to get rained on. very versatile just use your imagination. this is all cheep especially if you go mil surplus store. it will give you an idea whats out there from everyone else while you role dirty and be its all amazingly light tent 1 pound max. sleeping bag maybe the first layer 2 lbs second 3 lb and cover another 2 lbs. o they can all come together for some extremely cold temps. this is how i role its all cheep and a good starter kit because you can slowly add weight and better gear as you feel necessary and your capability improve also it all takes up no space at all i think the tent can fold up in to a 5x5 inch square and the sleeping bags are stuff sacked down to nothing I also really like the army issue tin cup holds the green 1 qrt canteen use for cooking takes up no space.
let me know if this all sounds crazy im a mil man so i love minimalistic camping/hiking you really dont need a lot and if this is all way to confusing i will see if i can find a youtube on it. the only time that this sucks is when you cant find a spot to support the tent but that's just a lack of imagination. thanks for letting me rant

[Don]

neilether
If you're going to try the one pack solution get a top loading pack with a floating lid that can be removed completely. This drops a little weight and eliminates some extra space that makes it easy to overpack.
At 3966 cubic inches the REI Flash 65 is a little smaller than what you're looking for but take a look at it anyway. It's enough for a weekend but might not be big enough for a week on the trail, especially if you're carrying a few days worth of water. And at 170 the price if nice.

[Don]

and timejinx,
Man, I HATE my army ruck. The damn thing was hasn't changed much since world war II. Technology has changed, civilian pack design has begun to affect military hardware; the CFP90 field pack is better but still a bulky heavy pack to carry on a recreational trip.
But the Alice pack? Forgettaboutit. Shit for suspension; no shoulder padding and the hip belt is non-standard (an add-on). The adjustment buckles are oddly placed and steel (heavy) with a quick release that might be useful if someone is shooting at you and you need to lose the pack quick but just adds useless weight to a recreational hiker.
It's oddly wide and short so unless you use the external frame you're forced to wear it low on your back to get any use out of the hip belt (assuming you have one).
Most surplus rucks still use the old closure system which means no buckles; every time you open the pack you have to run the straps back through the cinch down hardware. Unreliable ('cause they're probably older than me) buckles on the outside pockets force you to tie your gear to the pack or risk losing whatever you were foolish enough to put in there (hope it was just your MRE and not your cryptographic control device(which fits nicely in there but will be you're ass if it gets lost)).
I spent a couple hundred bucks mail ordering a tactical pack while in Iraq so I'd never have to carry that stupid piece of shit again.

Or, maybe I'm bitter 'cause it seems like every time I've carried an Alice pack I was carrying an arbitrary list of crap (often including dumb bells) just to add weight.