I don't understand...

[Mtnman1830]

Hunters stranded near Ben Lomond Peak
October 11th, 2008 @ 9:59pm
(KSL News) Search and rescue crews are in the process of helping a father and son who are stranded on Ben Lomond Peak.

The two were hunting in the mountains when they got lost.

There is nearly a foot of snow in the area, and officials say the pair was not prepared for the elements. Officials found the men's ATVs this afternoon, and after hours of searching they located the father and son. They are now helping them down the mountain.

They are cold and wet and have mild hypothermia but are expected to recover.

:ne_nau:

[JP]

People get lost in Wal-Farts parking lot :mrgreen:

[Last Child]

People like this should not be allowed hunting licenses. How anyone can say they are "lost" in this area is ridiculous. Especially now days with GPS.

Anyone who hunts knows that you have to pay attention to weather reports and be prepared to spend the night if you decided to go out when a storm is approaching.

I think that these guys just wanted someone else to get them off the mountain before it got dark. I sure hope that they have to pay for this "rescue".

[BruteForce]

People like this should not be allowed hunting licenses. How anyone can say they are "lost" in this area is ridiculous. Especially now days with GPS.

Anyone who hunts knows that you have to pay attention to weather reports and be prepared to spend the night if you decided to go out when a storm is approaching.

I think that these guys just wanted someone else to get them off the mountain before it got dark. I sure hope that they have to pay for this "rescue".

Agreed. Unbelievable that they would go unprepared when the forecast was for rough weather (forecasted a week in advance).

They left their ATV's which implies that they probably ran out of fuel as well.

Sheesh! :nono:

[Sombeech]

Maybe they were members of SUWA, and once the snow covered the trail, there was no trail, making ATV use purely illegal.

[BruteForce]

Maybe they were members of SUWA, and once the snow covered the trail, there was no trail, making ATV use purely illegal.

BAHAH! :2thumbs:

[greyhair biker]

Maybe they were members of SUWA, and once the snow covered the trail, there was no trail, making ATV use purely illegal.

BAHAH! :2thumbs:
...it COULD happen :ne_nau: ( :roflol: )

[accadacca]

Maybe they were members of SUWA, and once the snow covered the trail, there was no trail, making ATV use purely illegal.

BAHAH! :2thumbs:
...it COULD happen :ne_nau: ( :roflol: )
Hey now. :haha:

[Deathcricket]

Maybe they were members of SUWA, and once the snow covered the trail, there was no trail, making ATV use purely illegal.

/redneck voice

Now I don't care who you are, that wuz funny right dere'

:roflol:

[Last Child]

Maybe they were members of SUWA, and once the snow covered the trail, there was no trail, making ATV use purely illegal.

/redneck voice

Now I don't care who you are, that wuz funny right dere'

:roflol:

+1 to that

[Nick Danger]

They left their ATV's which implies that they probably ran out of fuel as well.

Why would that be implied?

According to early reports from other sources, the lost-ees were hunting mountain goats. So the only legal use of ATVs in that area that makes sense would be to; 1) drive ATVs to Willard Basin, park, and hike, or 2) drive to the Inspiration Point viewpoint, park, and hike. The latter makes for a shorter hike to the Willard Peak & Ben Lomond Peak area, but it's initially on a more difficult trail that follows a rocky spine. In the Willard Basin area, if they were on anything other than the main road or a pullout / parking area with their ATVs, they were violating the travel plan.

But, violating travel plans is routine for many ATV riders -- including the majority, who imagine themselves as responsible trail users -- because most don't understand the difference between "staying on designated trails" and just "staying on trails."

The Motorized Vehicle Use Map booklet for the Ogden Ranger District is available on-line at:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/uwc/maps/wcnf/final_ogden_mvum_mapbook_090908_low_res.pdf

See Map 3A, page 14. Note that the Skyline Trail is a singletrack that's open to motorcycles but NOT ATVs.

[RedMan]

They left their ATV's which implies that they probably ran out of fuel as well.

Why would that be implied?

According to early reports from other sources, the lost-ees were hunting mountain goats. So the only legal use of ATVs in that area that makes sense would be to; 1) drive ATVs to Willard Basin, park, and hike, or 2) drive to the Inspiration Point viewpoint, park, and hike. The latter makes for a shorter hike to the Willard Peak & Ben Lomond Peak area, but it's initially on a more difficult trail that follows a rocky spine. In the Willard Basin area, if they were on anything other than the main road or a pullout / parking area with their ATVs, they were violating the travel plan.

But, violating travel plans is routine for many ATV riders -- including the majority, who imagine themselves as responsible trail users -- because most don't understand the difference between "staying on designated trails" and just "staying on trails."

The Motorized Vehicle Use Map booklet for the Ogden Ranger District is available on-line at:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/uwc/maps/wcnf/final_ogden_mvum_mapbook_090908_low_res.pdf

See Map 3A, page 14. Note that the Skyline Trail is a singletrack that's open to motorcycles but NOT ATVs.

They went without adequate clothing so I'm going to assume they didn't bother to look at a travel plan map either.

[BruteForce]

But, violating travel plans is routine for many ATV riders -- including the majority, who imagine themselves as responsible trail users -- because most don't understand the difference between "staying on designated trails" and just "staying on trails."


Here we go again.. :ne_nau:

[Bo_Beck]

It used to be in the "olden days" that you were left to fend on your own. Now we are all just a bunch of pussies and if we are a few minutes overdue it's an emergency. What happened to fend for yourself? :ne_nau: Some of the best memories are those frantic, improvisation moments.

[BruteForce]

It used to be in the "olden days" that you were left to fend on your own. Now we are all just a bunch of pussies and if we are a few minutes overdue it's an emergency. What happened to fend for yourself? :ne_nau: Some of the best memories are those frantic, improvisation moments.

Agreed. Couple that with being prepared and it could make itself into a fun adventure. I usually head out with enough gear to survive at least 3 days if stranded. Odd that others don't even go out with enough to last a single day.

[Bo_Beck]

Is your book distributed by anyone in particular? Liberty, Peregrine, Falcon, Mountaineers, Stackpole???? I will stock it in Outdoor Outlet. It seems that I've had it before, but I don't remember

[accadacca]

Odd that others don't even go out with enough to last a single day.
:lol8:

Sad, but nope not odd at all.

[Bo_Beck]

It used to be in the "olden days" that you were left to fend on your own. Now we are all just a bunch of pussies and if we are a few minutes overdue it's an emergency. What happened to fend for yourself? :ne_nau: Some of the best memories are those frantic, improvisation moments.

Agreed. Couple that with being prepared and it could make itself into a fun adventure. I usually head out with enough gear to survive at least 3 days if stranded. Odd that others don't even go out with enough to last a single day.

First things first. Can we say "I can change a tire"? Or.....If my cell phone doesn't work is it time to turn around? What is my "comfort zone"?....Serious questions.....positive error?....what's insulation?......If I kill a "DEAR" what the hell is next?....convective heat?....does snow insulate?....treewells?.....heat, fuel, oxygen?....reverse azimuth?....oh yeah need a compass?!......................................... .................................................. ............................................I often wonder............WHAT AN EXPERIENCE!~? Good on em! LIVE AND LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bo_Beck]

You all probably don't want to know or hear this shit or already know it, but i'll throw it out anyway. Positive error is really useful when it comes to finding your way back. We all use it. Example: You hike due north (TN) 0 Degrees for 2 miles........you get on top of a knoll.... you want to get back to your car on a E-W running road. Do you take a 180 Deg Bearing? Nope! Take a 170 course so that when you hit the east-west road you'll turn right to get to your car. If you take a 180 Deg. Bearing you'll hit the road and not see your car and not know if you should turn right or left to get back to your car.

[skianddive]

You all probably don't want to know or hear this shit or already know it, but i'll throw it out anyway. Positive error is really useful when it comes to finding your way back. We all use it.
We may know it subconsciously, but it's good to get reminders like this so that we don't forget to do some critical thinking when we're navigating in the outdoors.

Thanks for the post, Bo, and the graphic to illustrate your point! :2thumbs:

[BruteForce]

You all probably don't want to know or hear this shit or already know it, but i'll throw it out anyway. Positive error is really useful when it comes to finding your way back. We all use it. Example: You hike due north (TN) 0 Degrees for 2 miles........you get on top of a knoll.... you want to get back to your car on a E-W running road. Do you take a 180 Deg Bearing? Nope! Take a 170 course so that when you hit the east-west road you'll turn right to get to your car. If you take a 180 Deg. Bearing you'll hit the road and not see your car and not know if you should turn right or left to get back to your car.

I was just taught to shoot a back azimuth. These days, it's just as easy to have two GPSr's with you at all times with a back-up compass.