LDS statement seen as open to liquor law change

[Mtnman1830]

LDS statement seen as open to liquor law change
September 17th, 2008 @ 11:35am
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A new statement from Mormon church leaders is being viewed as positive sign by Utah politicians who want to make sweeping changes to state liquor laws.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints posted the statement Monday on its Web site.

In the statement, church leaders acknowledge that alcohol is publicly available and believe Utahns can find agreement on "laws and regulations that allow individual freedom of choice while preserving Utah's proven positive health and safety record on limiting the tragic consequences of overconsumption of alcohol."

The church counsels its members against drinking.

Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman has called for a change in state law to eliminate a requirement that makes bars private clubs that require a paid memberships. He says that will make Utah more tourist friendly.

The state Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control is working on draft legislation to change the law, which the Lgislature is expected take up next year.

"This is huge. This is what everyone was waiting for," said Lisa Marcy McGarry, legal counsel for the Utah Hospitality Association. "A large majority of our Legislature is going to listen to the words of advice given by the LDS Church."

Officially the church claims political neutrality. Leadership does not endorse political candidates or parties, but sometimes weighs in on moral issues, including marriage, gambling and alcohol laws.

The church statement comes two weeks before the liquor commission is scheduled to hold a public hearing on alcohol laws. The statement doesn't specifically address proposed changes to state law, but notes lawmakers will "no doubt" address the issue next year.

Church leaders also said they have and will continue to support reasonable regulations that limit overconsumption, reduce DUI driving and eliminate underage drinking.

"That's quite a statement," said Sam Granato, who heads the state liquor commission. "I would think through proper education and good communications we can achieve a goal that works for everyone. That's how I read it. ... I think it's a healthy step."

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4286569

I thought maybe the LDS would change the WoW and allow alcohol.

[JP]

Being an outsider and vacationer in Utah, I find a couple of the alcohol laws different. This does not change my mind whether to vacation in Utah and I don't see how people look at the "Membership" being hurtful to vacation destination seekers. It's not a backbreaking thing, so I personally don't find it hampering my ideas when returning to Utah. It's one of those things that become campfire talk when back in your home states. :mrgreen:

[RugerShooter]

I thought maybe the LDS would change the WoW and allow alcohol.

If they did that I would have to think about going back to church.

Do you think they would start serving wine with the sacrament again?

[KapitanSparrow]

Being an outsider and vacationer in Utah, I find a couple of the alcohol laws different. This does not change my mind whether to vacation in Utah and I don't see how people look at the "Membership" being hurtful to vacation destination seekers. It's not a backbreaking thing, so I personally don't find it hampering my ideas when returning to Utah. It's one of those things that become campfire talk when back in your home states. :mrgreen:

But closing liquor stores during holidays is another thing! On 4th of July, for example, when we want to celebrate, heh. Yeah, memberships don't bother me as much as the joint being closed every holiday and sunday.

[Deathcricket]

Being an outsider and vacationer in Utah, I find a couple of the alcohol laws different. This does not change my mind whether to vacation in Utah and I don't see how people look at the "Membership" being hurtful to vacation destination seekers. It's not a backbreaking thing, so I personally don't find it hampering my ideas when returning to Utah. It's one of those things that become campfire talk when back in your home states. :mrgreen:

When my friends come in from out of state, mostly California, they exclaim how retarded and backwards the law is. When I go to visit them, they always tease me about having to get a "drink pass" like I'm a kid in high school needing a hall pass. I do agree it does have little effect on tourism though. I don't see anyone saying "it's hard to drink in utah, lets go to Idaho". Hehe!

It does give us a negative perception though I imagine. When I moved out here 3 years ago, I thought it was really cool and a GOOD thing. But I rarely drink beside a margarita of fruity "somewhateva" at chilies or outback (which is fine here) so no biggie to me. If I was single though...

[JP]

But closing liquor stores during holidays is another thing! On 4th of July, for example, when we want to celebrate, heh. Yeah, memberships don't bother me as much as the joint being closed every holiday and sunday.
Well, since you live out there, buy your booze in advance of a holiday or Sunday. Don't be one of these snobby relocator's that feel things should change just because YOU moved in :mrgreen: Here in Connecticut, no alcohol is sold after 9pm and no alcohol sold on Sundays. So, if you're planning a picnic on a Sunday, make sure you grab your alcohol before 9pm on Saturday. No big deal.

If we go back to what the Governor is standing on, vacationers. Well, before you vacation anywhere, you look at what's up in that area. If drinking is your thing, then you should be looking at the laws which that state enforces. Not too hard, AAA does a good job in outlining different things outsiders may not be aware of.

And being a vacationer myself, I don't find the drinking laws something that will steer me away from spending my money in Utah.


When my friends come in from out of state, mostly California, they exclaim how retarded and backwards the law is.

It does give us a negative perception though I imagine. When I moved out here 3 years ago, I thought it was really cool and a GOOD thing. But I rarely drink beside a margarita of fruity "somewhateva" at chilies or outback (which is fine here) so no biggie to me. If I was single though...
Well, you're a Mormon state. You're a religious state that was founded on highly religious beliefs. In some ways that can be a good thing. I don't think the first thing to come to the mind of out-of-stater's when speaking of Utah is it's stricter drinking laws. I would say it is the old way of polygamy, that gets the chuckle...being able to have more than one wife. I believe that is what Utah is known for, even though that is no longer on the books, not the drinking. Out this way, unless you have been there, you would never know about the "membership" or the alcohol by volume thingies.

Again, people are heading to Utah for the travel destinations and the outdoors activities. They're not traveling there because of the great liquor laws. I could careless if your state was dry, I'd still head out there. If I was an alcoholic, it might push me to Colorado or something like that, but I don't think any state will conform to an alcoholic point of view. Your state offers what most do not when speaking of outdoor activities, funny alcohol laws will not deter people from coming.

[Deathcricket]

Agreed. Funny quick story about Polygamy. Because that is what EVERYONE thinks of when they think Utah.

So we were in Walmart (buying beer no less) and I pointed out some Polys to my friend. He immediately went over to the guy and shook his hand. Then asked his if he had any tips for dealing with his wife and getting her to share, who was standing 4 feet away!! The guy just quoted some scriptures but it was hilarious.

After wards I had to tell my friend "it's not like that, you don't have an orgie every night" but he was convinced it was just on the down-low... Not as funny when I re-tell it but if you were there you'd be LMAO too I bet.


:lol8:

[DiscGo]

But closing liquor stores during holidays is another thing! On 4th of July, for example, when we want to celebrate, heh. Yeah, memberships don't bother me as much as the joint being closed every holiday and sunday.


Worse than holidays is election day. A day you need it the most.


Deathcricket- That story was hilarious!

[bbennett]

Agreed. Funny quick story about Polygamy. Because that is what EVERYONE thinks of when they think Utah.

So we were in Walmart (buying beer no less) and I pointed out some Polys to my friend. He immediately went over to the guy and shook his hand. Then asked his if he had any tips for dealing with his wife and getting her to share, who was standing 4 feet away!! The guy just quoted some scriptures but it was hilarious.

After wards I had to tell my friend "it's not like that, you don't have an orgie every night" but he was convinced it was just on the down-low... Not as funny when I re-tell it but if you were there you'd be LMAO too I bet.


:lol8:

:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Your friend is my hero! I would literally be in tears witnessing something like that. Great story.

[catch22]

Anyone else worry that making Utah too tourist friendly is just going to result in a shatload more people moving here? Personally I don't drink much so the funky laws don't affect me much other than having to cover a couple memberships each year, but having friends who are some boozehounds I can see where the laws can be a bit of an inconvenience at times (though it never really gets in the way of a party in the long run). The laws were a non-issue for us when we chose to move out here but I know plenty of people get really hung up on the laws and the church and end up going to Denver or Phoenix instead when I think we've got those location beat in terms of climate and proximity to the mountains.

In a way I think I've actually grown to like the laws and church for the preconcieved notions people out of state have of this great place. I think most friends back in the midwest that haven't been out to visit still assume multiple wives is mandatory and it's a dry state by law (and the ones who have visited never want to leave). So what's the deal, anyone else feel like maybe a few quirks are worth the hastle just to keep UT lower on people's places to move lists?

[Don]

I agree that the state is already overpopulated and harsh liquor laws may keep people from moving here, but as a drinker I find myself often annoyed by the plain stupidity of the laws. It's just embarrassing to try to explain to friends from out of state that the bartender at Chilli's has to walk around the bar and bring the drink up from behind where we are seated at the bar because the drink must be mixed or poured in a "different room" (behind the bar counts as a different room if the bar tender brings the drink around rather than just handing it over the bar).
If you want to keep the population down I think we would be better served by not advertising our state and not landing our cities in the best-place-to-live articles of various magazines than by keeping our antiquated religious based liquor laws on the books.
As they say:
Please keep your theocracy out of our democracy.

[tallsteve]

As an active, card carrying member of the LDS faith I don't drink but have good, close friends that do and I think the current laws are stupid. Most informed members I know feel the same way so I think it's time they're changed.

[abirken]

Or do what I do........buy your booze in Colorado and just drive on over the state line. Laws are meant to be broken. :lol8:




has to walk around the bar and bring the drink up from behind where we are seated at the bar because the drink must be mixed or poured in a "different room" (behind the bar counts as a different room if the bar tender brings the drink around rather than just handing it over the bar).

FOR REAL??????????????? That's just about the most retarded concept I've ever heard.

[TreeHugger]

abirken - be careful - it's a class 3 felony to bring alcohol over the state line now.

I hate HAVING to eat to drink (unless I go into a private stupid club and "pay" to have a drink). Like the stupid 3 chips I'm forced to consume in order to have a glass of wine is going to make any freakin' difference! I can regulate my own drinking, thank you.

Also. I agree that the stupid laws are just ridiculously stupid. Here's one, a story someone wrote about in the editorial section today: They go into the Oyster bar to have lunch, Mmmm, oysters sound good... but wait, you cannot go in door number one because that is a private club - but all I want is lunch, I dont want a drink... sorry you have to pay to have lunch here... go through door number two and you can eat there without paying.. but wait, whatd'ya know? I can get a beer over here... This is the kind of stupid crap that drives people crazy.

I dont mind the state liquor stores, and not being able to buy stuff on Sunday, or after a certain time and even private clubs, but make it MAKE SENSE. You can have cocktails on the tile part of the establishement but you must have food, you can have beer and wine on the hard wood floor part, but you must have food, and no alcohol. You can drink beer or wine at the bar without eating. WTF?? (Desert Edge)

As far as the tourist industry - I do think it effects the ski industry. Many Europeans, and others, will go to Colorado because it's just makes more sense.

Oh, yeah... and I would LOVE to be able to get a damn bottle of wine in the grocery store when I'm buying food for dinner. Geez.

Deep breath, breathe.....

:haha:

[stefan]

yeah there are a billion laws that need to be changed.

another one is that there needs to be >4% alcohol allowed on draught. :drink:

[RugerShooter]

yeah there are a billion laws that need to be changed.

another one is that there needs to be >4% alcohol allowed on draught. :drink:

Needs it be closer to the 6% Colorado Beer :nod: :cheers:

[greyhair biker]

just jump the border to Wyoming...you can literally drink to you hearts' content. Hell, we even have drive in liquor stores :2thumbs:
Oh, BTW, you missed the beer festival during the River Festival in Green River in august - $20 bought you all the microbrews you could drink...for as long as you could stand :haha: WOW - they sold alot of beer!

[JP]

another one is that there needs to be >4% alcohol allowed on draught. :drink:
Something like this Stefan :haha:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Zukimog/P1010006-3.jpg

[double moo]

I thought maybe the LDS would change the WoW and allow alcohol.

Go back and read D&C 89 -alcohol was never the issue. In fact it only notes "strong drink is not for the belly"

verse 7: And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

verse 17: Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Ironic that it specifically states barley is for mild drinks... so according to Joseph - beer is good. And that meat is to be used sparingly or in times of famine. And that Hot Drinks are not for the belly... but that only applies to coffee and tea - not good things like hot chocolate! (the caffiene issue is easy to trow out too - so let's not go there)

Like all religions we get to pick and choose the portions of the scriptures that bode well for our intentions.

Thanks for listening!

[Rev. Coyote]

Sheesh! It's really stupid the legislature allows itself to be punked by the "church." That's lame beyond descrition.

If you don't approve of booze, don't drink.

That said, I LOVE 3.2 beer!!! I like it becuase it's so good after a drink (or two) of dark liquor to round out an evening around the fire.

[Sombeech]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is. This is making the news on all channels.

Some politicians asked the LDS church's view on the laws they were thinking of passing, and their response was pretty much "uh, yeah, do what you want. We support healthy lifestyles, but since we have nothing to do with the law... wait, why are you asking us? You know we don't drink."

If the church's stance on alcohol consumption were tied to the Utah regulations, it would be illegal. They still have the same views.

I guess I just don't see the excitement. I mean sure, it's great news for the industry, but I really don't think the law is changing BECAUSE the church said it was ok. That has nothing to do with it.

[stefan]

That said, I LOVE 3.2 beer!!! I like it becuase it's so good after a drink (or two) of dark liquor to round out an evening around the fire.

4%bv/3.2%bw beer is fine but limiting. there are just so many fine beers that go beyond 4%bv. for example, sierra nevada pale ale (5.6%bv) is an extremely popular bottle in utah ... it should be ubiquitous on draught around utah.

aside from any subtle regulatory issues with draught beer, it's glaringly inconsistent that you can purchase >4%bv in a bottle but not on draught.

[hank moon]

If the church's stance on alcohol consumption were tied to the Utah regulations, it would be illegal. They still have the same views.


In your view what is the number one influence on Utah's byzantine liquor laws?

[KapitanSparrow]

Oh, BTW, you missed the beer festival during the River Festival in Green River in august - $20 bought you all the microbrews you could drink...for as long as you could stand :haha: WOW - they sold alot of beer!

Darn it GHB! Did you post it in the Bogley Unplugged section? That would rock, although someone would not be able to drink so that someone else could.

As far as the liquor laws, I am quite adaptable and don't mind it that much. I do, however, found funny some of the situations created by these laws. Concert in Oden, I went to the bar to buy a Corona for a friend, Jack and club soda for meself, and a shot of vodka that I could have at the bar, heh. The bar lady said NO, I can only sell you two drinks at a time. So I got the shot of vodka, drank it at the bar, and ordered the other two beverages, heh.

Another time I'm sitting at the SLC airport bar waiting for my flight. I don't know how many drinks I had but when I ordered another one the girl said she can't sell me one because I already had so many within the hour, heh. I understand refusing to sell to someone who's drunk, but to limit it by the hour? Now, the government should have better things to do than deciding how many drinks I can have in an hour! :haha:

[FROGGER]

If the church's stance on alcohol consumption were tied to the Utah regulations, it would be illegal. They still have the same views.


In your view what is the number one influence on Utah's byzantine liquor laws?

This is easy to answer, the simple fact that "most" of the people who make the laws don't drink... I know your trolling for the "its the church" answer and guess what your right but not in the way most people assume..

The church is not directly going into state offices and saying do this do that.. they have standards for members to live by... those members are then VOTED IN to office by "we the people" based on how "good" of candidate we perceive them to be... then when strict laws are passed "we the people" have a shit fit because we cant get as drunk as we would like...

What do you expect!!!

We live in a state where one religion is predominate.... thus if those voted into office are part of said religion people should expect them to pass and sustain laws that reflect the beliefs of the person WE VOTED IN!!!

Why is this so hard for people to understand...

:ne_nau:

[devo_stevo]

If the church's stance on alcohol consumption were tied to the Utah regulations, it would be illegal. They still have the same views.


In your view what is the number one influence on Utah's byzantine liquor laws?

This is easy to answer, the simple fact that "most" of the people who make the laws don't drink... I know your trolling for the "its the church" answer and guess what your right but not in the way most people assume..

The church is not directly going into state offices and saying do this do that.. they have standards for members to live by... those members are then VOTED IN to office by "we the people" based on how "good" of candidate we perceive them to be... then when strict laws are passed "we the people" have a shit fit because we cant get as drunk as we would like...

What do you expect!!!

We live in a state where one religion is predominate.... thus if those voted into office are part of said religion people should expect them to pass and sustain laws that reflect the beliefs of the person WE VOTED IN!!!

Why is this so hard for people to understand...

:ne_nau:

+1 TO THIS!

[hank moon]

We live in a state where one religion is predominate.... thus if those voted into office are part of said religion people should expect them to pass and sustain laws that reflect the beliefs of the person WE VOTED IN!!!

Why is this so hard for people to understand...

Hi Frogger

That is pretty much how I understand the situation - thanks for the forthright explanation. Just curious - are you LDS?

hank

[KapitanSparrow]

But shouldn't their liberty to make up these ridiculous laws end when it infringes on my liberty to have easy access to alcohol?

[stefan]

and when they use the high taxes on alcohol to pay for school lunches of students whose families predominantly do not drink alcohol?


what do you think of the current idea to use alcohol tax to additionally help with low-cost housing.

[KapitanSparrow]

and when they use the high taxes on alcohol to pay for school lunches of students whose families predominantly do not drink alcohol?


what do you think of the current idea to use alcohol tax to additionally help with low-cost housing.

I think that would be fair. I reckon a lot of those taxes come from poor folks.

[FROGGER]

But shouldn't their liberty to make up these ridiculous laws end when it infringes on my liberty to have easy access to alcohol?

Oh by all means because this society should forget Majority rules and cater to every individual... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Their "ability" to make these ridiculous laws comes from the MASS MAJORITY voting them in... You sound like every illegal immigrant or minority whining because you didn't get your way...

You live in a state where there are higher moral standards than other states and when it does not fit your lifestyle you want everyone else to change for your benefit... How does that make any sense...

I not trying to pull hairs but i really dont understand the "victim mentality"

[FROGGER]

and when they use the high taxes on alcohol to pay for school lunches of students whose families predominantly do not drink alcohol?


what do you think of the current idea to use alcohol tax to additionally help with low-cost housing.

I have no problem with either of these situations... things are taxed at different rates.. alcohol being one of them.. I pay an ass load of taxes on my business to the city of Sandy.. they use my tax dollars to fund many different things of which everyone who passes through Sandy can use not just my customers...

This society has always been interlinked... we have seen a trend (which is sad as hell) in our society of turning into an "its all about me" society... I think they should continue taxing alcohol and tobacco the way they are if not more...

[KapitanSparrow]

But shouldn't their liberty to make up these ridiculous laws end when it infringes on my liberty to have easy access to alcohol?

Oh by all means because this society should forget Majority rules and cater to every individual... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Their "ability" to make these ridiculous laws comes from the MASS MAJORITY voting them in... You sound like every illegal immigrant or minority whining because you didn't get your way...

You live in a state where there are higher moral standards than other states and when it does not fit your lifestyle you want everyone else to change for your benefit... How does that make any sense...

I not trying to pull hairs but i really dont understand the "victim mentality"

Take a chill pill Frogger. If you had paid attention to what I wrote in previous posts, for example about not minding these laws and being able to adopt, your blood pressure wouldn't have to go up. Learn to take things lightly buddy. That your liberty, my liberty crap is something I didn't think of myself, but rather something that the founding fathers of this country discussed.

I couldn't care either way about liquor laws in Utah. If they ban it completely, I would probably move. Hell, I supported the smoking ban in NYC bars, and I was a smoker back then. But it doesn't change the fact that I find these drinking laws ridiculous or at least silly. To each his own. I accept this is the law. But you should also accept the fact that majority of people in the world view them as silly.

And for your information I am a citizen of this country and by no means viewed by the society will live in as a member of a minority. I'm as white as it gets, unless you go to Scandinavia. So please don't compare me to illegal immigrants because someone might interpret it the wrong way and conclude that you view me as such.

Cheers :friday:

[James_B_Wads2000]

I guess I just don't see the excitement. I mean sure, it's great news for the industry, but I really don't think the law is changing BECAUSE the church said it was ok. That has nothing to do with it.

Glad to see your rose colored glasses are working well. :2thumbs:

This church announcement all but guarantees that the liquor laws will pass. Is the statement the only reason the laws may change? No, there has been a big push for a couple years headed by Huntsman to get the laws to be more tourist friendly. Had the church made no statement then maybe the law passes, maybe it doesn

[stefan]

But shouldn't their liberty to make up these ridiculous laws end when it infringes on my liberty to have easy access to alcohol?

Oh by all means because this society should forget Majority rules and cater to every individual... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Their "ability" to make these ridiculous laws comes from the MASS MAJORITY voting them in... You sound like every illegal immigrant or minority whining because you didn't get your way...

You live in a state where there are higher moral standards than other states and when it does not fit your lifestyle you want everyone else to change for your benefit... How does that make any sense...

I not trying to pull hairs but i really dont understand the "victim mentality"

Take a chill pill Frogger. If you had paid attention to what I wrote in previous posts, for example about not minding these laws and being able to adopt, your blood pressure wouldn't have to go up. Learn to take things lightly buddy. That your liberty, my liberty crap is something I didn't think of myself, but rather something that the founding fathers of this country discussed.

I couldn't care either way about liquor laws in Utah. If they ban it completely, I would probably move. Hell, I supported the smoking ban in NYC bars, and I was a smoker back then. But it doesn't change the fact that I find these drinking laws ridiculous or at least silly. To each his own. I accept this is the law. But you should also accept the fact that majority of people in the world view them as silly.


i concur. there are some silly and inconvenient laws in utah. some of these are slowly being changed and i think it's reasonable to push and argue for change.

for example, in salt lake in the 70s there was no way for an organization or company to obtain a permit to serve alcohol at an event. it just didn't exist. after an infraction at a specific annual event in which alcohol was secretly being served, such a permit was created because there was a clear need.

the notion of a club membership is certainly archaic and does little to benefit anyone except the business. it should be done away with. the strange rules about how to make a drink and serve drinks hopefully are just temporary attempts and revisions at something which will ultimately become more reasonable.

utah's intolerance to bring alcohol across the border in the case that it's declared and taxes paid for is something i also think is silly. but i can understand why they want it this way. ultimately i think it's something that should change, considering special ordering alcohol in utah is limited and requires the purchase of an unreasonable amount.

also i would like to see them allow draught beer on tap.



And for your information I am a citizen of this country and by no means viewed by the society will live in as a member of a minority. I'm as white as it gets, unless you go to Scandinavia. So please don't compare me to illegal immigrants because someone might interpret it the wrong way and conclude that you view me as such.


perhaps you already recognized this, but the minority he's referring to is the portion of the population of utah that actually drinks alcohol. there are various utahns which take pride in being the majority and having the dominant say on how laws are written or decisions made. i've even heard some use it as an argument to shut up over it (amazing!).

however it seems to me that the nuances and incongruences of liquor laws are something that can be ironed out without upsetting or affecting that majority too much. people have a right to complain and should argue for changing them if they believe in it.

[Sombeech]

:roflol: Good to see that you guys all know the inner workings of LDS politics.

Going on all day and night about the church controlled state....













http://www.usu.edu/ust/img/large/bioneers_rocky_anderson.jpg

[Last Child]

I wonder if the new downtown development being done by the church on the church owned property has anything to do with it? Need to entice some restaurants and other businesses in there? After all it's only just business.

Hmmmmmm?

[Mtnman1830]

Flavored malt beverages will be scarce in Utah
September 30th, 2008 @ 12:41pm
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- State liquor officials say Utah's supply of flavored malt beverages like Mike's Hard Lemonade will likely be exhausted in a few weeks.

A state law goes into effect Wednesday making Utah the only state in the country to ban the sale of the fruity alcoholic drinks at grocery stores and convenience stores. The only place they can be sold will be in state liquor stores.

The drinks are already sold there, but with a higher alcohol content than what is allowed in grocery stores. But state officials say they won't reorder any of those drinks until manufacturers comply with new labeling requirements.

So far, the state hasn't approved any new labels and manufacturers say they're not sure they want to bother with a specific one just for Utah.

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[TreeHugger]

Flavored malt beverages will be scarce in Utah
September 30th, 2008 @ 12:41pm
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- State liquor officials say Utah's supply of flavored malt beverages like Mike's Hard Lemonade will likely be exhausted in a few weeks.

A state law goes into effect Wednesday making Utah the only state in the country to ban the sale of the fruity alcoholic drinks at grocery stores and convenience stores. The only place they can be sold will be in state liquor stores.

The drinks are already sold there, but with a higher alcohol content than what is allowed in grocery stores. But state officials say they won't reorder any of those drinks until manufacturers comply with new labeling requirements.

So far, the state hasn't approved any new labels and manufacturers say they're not sure they want to bother with a specific one just for Utah.

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Zsoka McDonald, spokeswoman for Diageo, the world's largest multinational beer, wine and spirits firm, said the company is reconsidering stocking its flavored malt beverages in Utah "because it may not be worth it from a business standpoint."

Full article:

http://my.packexpo.com/NST-10-50102622/Regulation-Glitch-May-Turn-into-Ban-on-Malt-Beverages-in-Utah.aspx

[James_B_Wads2000]

So much for thinking that Utah will pass more progressive liquor laws. :roll: Too bad now they are going in the wrong direction.

The Utah Legislature is so lame. :puke8:



James

[Last Child]

Ah hell. Just one more reason for us Utahans to spend our liquor money out of state. For a lot of us, just a short drive across the border and you can come home with something better than 3.2 beer and cheaper all around booze. Just make sure you stock up so as to compensate for the extra gas costs.

These out of state border towns make so much money off us on booze and the lottery it's ridiculous. So much cash that Utah could put to good use.

Oh well at least they think that they are controlling us.

[stefan]

The Utah Legislature is so lame. :puke8:


seriously, what the hell do they expect teen girls to drink nowadays? :roll:

[KapitanSparrow]

Can we do a price comparison on some popular booze? For example the difference in the price of Jack here in Utah and in Wyoming? I'd love to know. Might as well take a trip out of state and stock up on things instead of overpaying here.

[stefan]

generally speaking i think, comparing in-state to out-of-state, beer is marked up the most, then wine, then liquor.

[Udink]

Can we do a price comparison on some popular booze? For example the difference in the price of Jack here in Utah and in Wyoming? I'd love to know. Might as well take a trip out of state and stock up on things instead of overpaying here.
I'm not sure about Wyoming, but I've smuggled it back from Colorado. I know that a 1.75L bottle of Bacardi rum is $26.55 here (after tax), but in Grand Junction you can get one for around $19. Well worth the trip in my opinion, just stock up a years' worth. :cheers:

[Wild One]

This is the type of thing I definitely do not miss about living in Utah. When people want to bitch about a law in Ohio the only scapegoat they have is the legislators who passed the law. In the end, they all have to shut up because they're the ones who voted those people in to make their laws. There isn't anyone else to blame. :nod:

Although this is a bold statement, you guys blaming the church (the organization as a whole) for its affect on laws in Utah seem to be just looking for a scapegoat because you're pissed that the majority of the population voted in legislators who have the same values that they hold. In case you didn't realize it, the majority of those voters is LDS. It stands to reason that they'll vote in people who they think will uphold their own views. Those people are then (as evidenced by the alcohol laws) going to vote for or against laws that they like/don't like as individuals.

Dude, if you don't like the laws in Utah then GTFO. Come to Ohio and drink to your heart's content (espcecially because there isn't anything else to do here). You might appreciate the society that exists in Utah after living in this $#it Hole. People that move to Utah usually do so because of it's geographical diversity and the culture that exists. I don't understand why folks would move from a place just to try to make it more like the place they moved from....
Eh, but what do I care? I don't live there...

[KapitanSparrow]

For the record, I may bitch about these laws from time to time because it is in our human nature to bitch and make fun and because we live in a free country, but I have nothing against these laws being in effect and no intrest in changing them. In short, I don't give a flying rat's ass about them being this way or another.

[Wild One]

For the record, I may bitch about these laws from time to time because it is in our human nature to bitch and make fun and because we live in a free country, but I have nothing against these laws being in effect and no intrest in changing them. In short, I don't give a flying rat's ass about them being this way or another.

I hear ya on that. Sometimes it's just more fun to bitch! Not sure why... :ne_nau:

[stefan]

This is the type of thing I definitely do not miss about living in Utah. When people want to bitch about a law in Ohio the only scapegoat they have is the legislators who passed the law. In the end, they all have to shut up because they're the ones who voted those people in to make their laws. There isn't anyone else to blame.

this attitude bugs the HELL out of me. NO! no shut up. just because someone makes laws doesn't mean i have to like them, agree with them, or NOT CRITICIZE them. it sounds to me more that it bugs you and you don't want to hear about it. :mrgreen: if that's the case, don't read the posts (oh wait, that's your line of logic). but your opinion is welcomed regardless.




Dude, if you don't like the laws in Utah then GTFO.

sometimes (or often) it's not that simple.


I don't understand why folks would move from a place just to try to make it more like the place they moved from....


are you saying if you're from there or were born there it'd be more appropriate to criticize or bitch about the laws?



Eh, but what do I care? I don't live there...

i dunno, but enough to criticize folks here for being critical

[Wild One]

this attitude bugs the HELL out of me. NO! no shut up. just because someone makes laws doesn't mean i have to like them, agree with them, or NOT CRITICIZE them. it sounds to me more that it bugs you and you don't want to hear about it. :mrgreen: if that's the case, don't read the posts (oh wait, that's your line of logic). but your opinion is welcomed regardless.

No, what bugs me is what I stated in the 2nd paragraph. People blaming a religious organization for decisions made by the state.

(Let me preface this by saying that there is a difference between "The Mormon Church" as an organization and what others perceive the Church to be/do because of individuals)

In an indirect way religions have some sway in affairs of the state. In this case the Mormon church did not dictate the laws to the state. It might have had an indirect effect on those laws, but only (as I and others stated previously) because most legislators are members of that organization.

The Church has an influence on affairs of the state of Utah, but only through the decisions made by its members who hold some type of political office. And the Church CANNOT force any person to think, feel or vote in one certain way. It is not possible. Those in office (political) make those decisions of their own free will.

If you and I were State Legislators and your vote opposed mine, would it be correct of me to blame Bogley, because you're a member of the Bogley organization? (obvisouly this is just an example to prove my point). No, of course not. Your own personal beliefs/morals might be different from mine b/c you believe in Bogleyism and I don't, but the Bogley organization should not be held resposible for your decisions. In the same way, you can't blame the Church as an organization for the laws put into effect by individuals who happen to be members of that organization.

Bottom line: it is not logical to blame the LDS Church for laws that exist in the State of Utah. That blame falls directly on those who hold political office and the majority who voted them in.


Dude, if you don't like the laws in Utah then GTFO.

sometimes (or often) it's not that simple.

Agreed.


I don't understand why folks would move from a place just to try to make it more like the place they moved from....

are you saying if you're from there or were born there it'd be more appropriate to criticize or bitch about the laws?

Nope. But its likely that you wouldn't b/c it would be the culture you grew up experiencing. It would be "normal" to you, why would you criticize it? If you move from one culture to another then it all too easy to wish you had the familiar back. People always want what they don't have, unless they don't know about it.



i dunno, but enough to criticize folks here for being critical
Don't really have a comeback for that one, but sorry for such a long post!

[stefan]

I don't understand why folks would move from a place just to try to make it more like the place they moved from....

are you saying if you're from there or were born there it'd be more appropriate to criticize or bitch about the laws?

Nope. But its likely that you wouldn't b/c it would be the culture you grew up experiencing. It would be "normal" to you, why would you criticize it?


uhh ... cause you've traveled and you've seen/experienced how other states/countries have made and implemented decisions; you've read about and talked about with others how other states/countries have made and implemented decisions; you've thought about what it's like in one state versus another state and explored in your mind or in person the effects on the individual the laws one state has vs. another state; and you're part of the population which is hindered by the laws in the state in which you grew up.

last time i checked utah wasn't homogeneous, perhaps more so than other states, but certainly not completely homogeneous.

and if you're going with the minority/majority thing, you have to factor in another issue. the utah government has been concerned with the image utah has, especially when it comes to business and tourism. if utah has a bad image because of its laws regarding alcohol and bars/clubs then it can have an effect on whether tourists choose utah as a destination as well as whether business is conducted in utah etc. so this alcohol issue is more complex than just about the local culture and voting population.



If you move from one culture to another then it all too easy to wish you had the familiar back. People always want what they don't have, unless they don't know about it.


utah may be more like a bubble than other places, but you make it sound as if folks in utah cannot be informed about what exists beyond utah (though i am sure you don't really mean to suggest that. but just because people have access to information, doesn't mean they necessarily seek it out and inform themselves.




i dunno, but enough to criticize folks here for being critical
Don't really have a comeback for that one, but sorry for such a long post!

hey, don't be sorry. long posts are just fine. you may get crap from someone like 'beech, but whatever. some of us here welcome long posts.