Toquerville - Going the wrong way!! Please Read

[Win]

Yesterday afternoon our neighbor comes over and hands Yo a presentation put out by Ron Sinclair of the "Our World Family - International Culture Exchange". You can Google your heart out and not find anything about these people or Ron Sinclair.

There was a town meeting last night in which this group gave a presentation . I did not go, Yo did. Here's the basics:

1) They will build a 2000 acre school. hotel conference center and AMUSEMENT PARK in T-ville.

2) The amusement park will include a 750 ft tall Ferris Wheel . the worlds fastest Roller Coaster, an indoor Ski area. Future plans include a domed stadium.

3) The school will go from K to a 4 year college. They will be "teaching" people to run businesses and you must also take a "religious degree"

4) 600 hotel rooms on site

5) Re-route RT 17 thru the complex!

What is most scary is that the City Council has known about this for some time, yet it came public just on Wed. This will change Toquerville forever and certainly Washington County. Think about coming down from SLC and seeing this 750 ft wheel sticking up in the night sky. I'm sure the "glow" will be visible from parts of Zion and Red Cliffs.

OWL seems to have a Mormon affiliation yet that wasn't really brought out. When asked why they can't be Googled they answered " we like to fly under the radar". Not even a note in Spectrum On Line this AM.

My self and many others in town want to have a vote on this. Simply Yes or No. The City Council can just tell them go ahead at this point and we can't do a darned thing. With a 4 Billion dollar budget, I'm betting the Council has their pens ready. Wonder what contracts each will get!

Am I cynical? You bet. Remember, I came here from NJ , no place more corrupt! It can happen right here, too.

Any ideas from the Bogley brain trust? Hope this didn't bore you.

Win

[sparker1]

I feel for you, Win, especially if there is nothing you can do. Projects like this totally destroy the character of an area, turning it into a "circus" atmosphere. As you say, the town leaders want "progress" at any cost, especially if they have early info and take advantage (buying property, etc). I remember when Disney announced WDW in Orlando. People love those tourist dollars, but WDW ruined a nice little town. I avoid it like a plague because of the traffic.

Utah in general is feeling the results of their "success". My little retirement town in SW Florida was great until Money magazine made them Best Small Town. Growth ruined it in just a few years.

[rockgremlin]

Seriously doubt this will occur. This is a project demanding tens of millions of dollars. Such drastic sweeping changes will not occur overnight, and I would be very surprised if it passed public approval. Re-routing a state road just to accomodate their facilities? Yeah right.

I recall a similar proposal was made for Cedar City about 9 years ago. They were gonna construct a major theme park and make major expansions to the airport to accomodate the theme park. It even made headline news on KSL. To this day, there is still no major theme park in Cedar. It never made it off the ground (to my chagrin).

My point is - if it can't get off the ground in Cedar, it sure as hell won't get off the ground in Tville. I remain a skeptic.

[rockgremlin]

Another thing to consider: A project this large requires a population that is capable of supporting it. Where is the labor force gonna come from to build all of these proposed changes, and then staff and maintain them when they are built? Down the road in Cedar and/or St. George? Seems like a long commute.

Smells like a pipe dream....

[tanya]

There will also be lots of public opposition from different groups. I am with Rock. I doubt it will happen, but even the idea of it maybe occuring is scary!

[Win]

Knowing the little I do about Utah, I don't think it will happen , either. What bothers me is that it will get started and not complete like so much else.
When you're heading down 17 from 15 just look to your left on the South end of T-ville. Trail Ridge development came in took down the hills, terraced the land and then went bankrupt. What a freakin' eyesore.

There was a plan last year to build 4000 homes on the land where this other enterprise wants to go. That fell thru, too. Some of the locals had already made their land deals with that and are sitting pretty. I think there was a land trade with BLM and an ex-bishop from the LDS. I could be wrong.

Win

[Redpb]

1) They will build a 2000 acre school. hotel conference center and AMUSEMENT PARK in T-ville.

2) The amusement park will include a 750 ft tall Ferris Wheel . the worlds fastest Roller Coaster, an indoor Ski area. Future plans include a domed stadium.

3) The school will go from K to a 4 year college. They will be "teaching" people to run businesses and you must also take a "religious degree"

4) 600 hotel rooms on site

5) Re-route RT 17 thru the complex!

BIBLE LAND!

http://www.turnonthepower.org/images/Home%20Page/BibleLand%20(LoRes).jpg

sounds like a developer scam to me. especially if they require the town/county to put some money down.

[sparker1]

Hope you are right, folks. I recall the skeptics regarding WDW. They figured it might draw about half the ones going to Disneyland, nothing more. Look at it now, the largest tourist draw in the world, isn't it? Not to mention Universal, Sea World and tons of other "attractions". The real estate resulting from this spreads many miles in all directions, mostly mansions on golf courses, plus small houses where the workers live.

[Redpb]

If I recall correctly there is also a major airport hub in Orlando, several other amusement parks and a beach within an hours drive. It's not just WDW as the draw.

[Scott Card]

Win, you seem to have issues with the LDS/Mormon church? Why bring up religion in city property/development issues? Just curious why the references. Heck I rolled my eyes when you wrote "Toquerville" was doing whatever. I think most of us are banned from the city for some reason, not sure what. Or was that Laverkin (which rhymes with "Hurrcun") but I digress...

[rockgremlin]

Win, you seem to have issues with the LDS/Mormon church?


UH OH....


http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/animekitsune/inb4lock.jpg

[sparker1]

If I recall correctly there is also a major airport hub in Orlando, several other amusement parks and a beach within an hours drive. It's not just WDW as the draw.

As I said, several other theme parks now. And, there is a large airport there now, because of the tourism. I saw a list of top attendance attractions and WDW was on top.

[Win]

Scott, didn't mean to give any impression.

Wish they'd ban everyone from T-ville now that I'm here. :nod:

Win

[Redpb]

If I recall correctly there is also a major airport hub in Orlando, several other amusement parks and a beach within an hours drive. It's not just WDW as the draw.

As I said, several other theme parks now. And, there is a large airport there now, because of the tourism. I saw a list of top attendance attractions and WDW was on top.

The airport has been there since WW2 owned by the Air Force. It was a slow transition into a commercial airport during the mid-70's only shortly after WDW opened. Hardly the influence you suggest.
Delta has been the "official" airline for WDW but apparently this has done so well that they are canceling all connection flights at the end of this month.

Also, Toquerville doesn't exactly have the weather to be opened 365 days a year.
This is how I would weigh my options with nearby attractions.
1. Las Vegas
2. Moab
3. St. George for golfing
4. Disneyland
5. Not Toquerville

[sparker1]

If I recall correctly there is also a major airport hub in Orlando, several other amusement parks and a beach within an hours drive. It's not just WDW as the draw.

As I said, several other theme parks now. And, there is a large airport there now, because of the tourism. I saw a list of top attendance attractions and WDW was on top.

The airport has been there since WW2 owned by the Air Force. It was a slow transition into a commercial airport during the mid-70's only shortly after WDW opened. Hardly the influence you suggest.
Delta has been the "official" airline for WDW but apparently this has done so well that they are canceling all connection flights at the end of this month.

Also, Toquerville doesn't exactly have the weather to be opened 365 days a year.
This is how I would weigh my options with nearby attractions.
1. Las Vegas
2. Moab
3. St. George for golfing
4. Disneyland
5. Not Toquerville

OK, I give up. I wasn't predicting that T'ville would enjoy the same fate as Orlando, just saying such development is not always a good thing. Sorry to bother you.

[rockgremlin]

dear stan:



http://www.tapintothenet.net/photos/albums/userpics/10001/never-give-up-frog.jpg

[Redpb]

LOL
Sorry I wasn't out to piss anyone off. I'm just in an office where we see scams all of the time, investors trying to pull off all sorts of scams. It gets old, and I hate to see people get taken advantage of.

[greyhair biker]

TOQUERVILLE??!!!! ya gotta be kidding me.
Reminds me of what happened to Green River, WY. a few years ago...before the current 'enery boom' of litterally THOUSANDS of gas wells being drilled everywhere you turn around that doubled the population. Green River was approached by Cabellas for a new store location. Yeah, you heard right...CABELLAS. Anyone go into the new store near the point of the mountain? The 'old school' city council didnt want their precious town bombarded with 'growth'...and not many people knew about it until after they had voted it out. That was years ago and city council still has to 'answer' for that little snafu. That store would have been our WDW...yeah, I know, we're a big bunch of rednecks :haha: Actually, that was about the same time RockSprings, our neighbors, got the new Super Walmart...then a Home Depot....etc. Since then there is ALWAYS a new hotel under construction in RS...a new restaurant...new storefronts...housing...
...and the question gets raised often 'why do GreenRiver people always go out of town to work? Why don't they stay here and work? We need more businesses...how do we get people to stay? Incidentally, the same people are still in city council :roll:
Sorry, this sounds like it should be in the political section and that I'm for the growth of a town and not for keeping it a 'sleepy little town' - that's how I see Toquerville. I am actually amazed that it has been able to remain a sleepy town given it's proximity with LaVerkin/Hurricane/St.George/Santa Clara/Zions Ntl Pk.
I don't want to ruffle anymore feathers than I have with these comments, and I do agree that a huge lighted eyesore in town with noise at all hours of the night can/will be a mess but it could be worse...it could be thousands of oil & gas pumps/refineries...hard to 'complain' to a gas well.... :ne_nau:

[RedMan]

uh is there an echo in my head????

Oh yeah we've seen this before....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0jKf4krXYQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4bfUDkksc8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA2wR5idBfA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNrK0WAgsQE&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7rraAoGIWU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYAHwye2xMA&feature=related

[Win]

Good stuff there, Redman.

GHB, trust me you didn't lose out by not getting a Cabellas, a Walmart or a bunch of hotels and restaurants. You didn't get the traffic, the additional police and fire that would have been needed. Oh, and the pensions you would have had to pay them. Say "higher taxes". Mineral and energy rights seem to be a big problem in parts of the West and I certainly sympathize with you.

Maybe, Toquerville could use eminent domain to take over all the housing on RT17 and encourage food chains and factory outlets to move in. By taking the homes on the next street over they could tear them down for parking. In order to not delay anyone visiting the National Parks they could take over another neighborhood and put in a by pass. We'd have all the new taxes from the businesses, who'd need residents anyway.

I'm not against growth, I'm against a folly that surely will never survive. Maybe even leaving the residents with a financial burden.

Win

[greyhair biker]

Unfortunately, the tax base here is primarily on the oil, gas, and mining industry...at least if we HAD more businesses like a WalMart or a...(fill in store preference here) the taxes would be evened out more and not put so much on the shoulders of the home owners. We as a chamber of commerce are trying desperately to get more tourism in the area in many different ways. We have something going on nearly every weekend...some rodeo or car show or concert series or raceway event or something and as soon as things start to take off and grow we discover that if we'd just HAD more facilities LIKE another hotel/restaurant/shopping area, we'd have gotten ( fill in the event/business/boost in economy). :ne_nau:

[Brewhaha]

They are promising so much it almost sounds like an internet scam. Are you sure there isn't a deposed dictator involved?

[sparker1]

When I was younger and working, I certainly favored growth in out city. As soon as I retired, I moved away from the traffic and constant growth to a small town. When it grew too quickly for me, I left there, too. However, I'm back in a large city and no hope of going to a small town again.

To sum up, being retired makes me favor "no growth". Trying to earn a living, I would definitely favor "growth". So, I can see both sides of this one.

[rockgremlin]

Wow that Heritage USA stuff is eerie!! Kinda like that movie I Am Legend...I almost expected to see zombies stumbling out of those cabins!

[accadacca]

Sorry for the slight hijack. Is it true that Toquerville was named in part from the Steve Miller song - Joker, "I'm a midnight toker." :lol8:

[Mtnman1830]

Didn't Ogden try something similar?

There are too many people in Ogden as it is... If things would have went thru, it would be even worse than it already is

[Win]

Acca, that's all together possible. There are definitely some people that fit the bill. I would have been perfect 30 years ago.

This complex plans to build housing for their labor force. They will need 5000 people to run it. They will have their own police/security and will offer it to other communities for back up.

One of the problems here is that we don't really attract retirees. We don't have golf and that's what they come to the St George area for. There really has been talk of opening up the main street area to businesses and I'm all for it. In fact, I would possibly open one, myself.

For those that haven't lived elsewhere let me tell you about property taxes. We had a 1400 sq ft townhouse in NJ. There were 450 units! When we moved our taxes were $4800.00!

Here we have a 3200 sq ft home, 3/4 acre and our taxes are $1900.00. Of course, they went from $1500.00 to $1900.00 in three years.

Win

[sparker1]

I'm familiar with NJ taxes, having moved there in 1976 when the Income Tax passed as a way of reducing Property Tax. You know what happened, of course.

Around 2000, I think, my wofe and I were returning from a motor home trip up north. In SC, we started looking for a campground to stay the night. We found a nice place at some religious park called Heritage something or other. There was practically no one there, which puzzled us. Never knew until today who had developed that place or what happened to it. :lol8:

[James_B_Wads2000]

Of course, they went from $1500.00 to $1900.00 in three years.

Win

You can thank Obama for that. :haha:


James

[Win]

The city council was to vote last evening but it was taken off the agenda. My wife and many others worked very hard to let people in T-ville know what was coming. The town asked that letters be sent pro or con and sounds like there were a lot more con.

The proposal was removed at the request of OWF and can't be reinstated unless they go to the planning board first. This will take a lot of time, thankfully.

Win

[moabfool]

Makes me wonder why they went to T-ville. I'm very sure they're just shopping around. Vegas sounds like a much better fit for what they have planned. 750ft tall ferris wheel. Nobody would even blink at something like that in Vegas. They probably can't get the tax incentives and "free" land they're hoping for in Vegas. Either that or they don't want to be over run by homies from the ghetto. :ne_nau:

Unless you want T-ville to look like this I suggest you fight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dubai_night_skyline.jpg
http://www.skidubai.com/