Zion - Subway Rescue

[Iceaxe]

NPS Morning Report
Tuesday, July 01, 2008

Zion National Park (UT)
Canyoneer Rescued By Short Haul

On the afternoon of Wednesday, June 25th, Michael Holcomb, 39, was attempting to complete the final rappel along the popular Subway canyoneering route in the Left Fork of North Creek

[Sombeech]

This was the third short-haul rescue of an injured hiker out of the Left Fork canyon in the past two months.

Interesting. I'm assuming this is the spot

[trackrunner]

This was the third short-haul rescue of an injured hiker out of the Left Fork canyon in the past two months.

Interesting. I'm assuming this is the spot

I believe so


At a logjam, the stream plunges through the logs to make a waterfall. Carefully cross the top of the waterfall to the ledge on canyon left. Walk out this ledge 50 feet (15m). A bolt anchor allows a rappel 30 feet (10m) to the canyon floor, or a series of ledges before the bolts allows the more agile to downclimb and traverse ledges to drop to the canyon floor 20 feet (6m) close to the base of the waterfall.

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/subway.php

[Iceaxe]

Last time we did Subway some idiots were jumping the last drop....

See the ledge just over the woman in the pictures backpack?
See the waist deep pool just below her feet?

The idiots were jumping form ledge to pool.... maybe an 8' jump? First guy down passes up the "expert" advise of.... "land in the pool in a sitting position because it's only waist deep." :roll:

Ya can't fix stupid. :nono:

[Iceaxe]

or a series of ledges before the bolts allows the more agile to downclimb and traverse ledges to drop to the canyon floor 20 feet (6m) close to the base of the waterfall.

Yeah.... Tom might want to reconsider posting those words of wisdom.....

Sometimes there is a log propped up where Tom is talking and the down climb is pretty easy... the ledge Tom is talking is the nose (on the right) with the sun on it three pools behind the woman. At least that is where we have DCed before.

:cool2:

[Sombeech]

That's Jan, by the way.

[Mooseman70]

Maybe Bo can shed some light on my question here:

When NPS rescues somebody, does the rescuee get sent a bill to cover expenses incurred during the operation? Or does the NPS foot the bill?

[trackrunner]

Maybe Bo can shed some light on my question here:

When NPS rescues somebody, does the rescuee get sent a bill to cover expenses incurred during the operation? Or does the NPS foot the bill?

As of a few years ago, rescuee is not charged. source "Canyoneering the Colorado Plateau"

[skianddive]

Ya can't fix stupid. :nono:
I thought "DUMBASS" was your favorite and that you would take advantage of circumstances like this in order to use it?? :haha:

[shagster]

Maybe Bo can shed some light on my question here:

When NPS rescues somebody, does the rescuee get sent a bill to cover expenses incurred during the operation? Or does the NPS foot the bill?

I know that the SAR Rescues up here in Davis County are free of charge. We cover all the costs. Yes sometimes I wonder about that, but if we start charging maybe people will start being more hesitant to call when they do need help.

[Iceaxe]

I'm no expert... but It's my understanding the NPS does not charge for rescues..... but I do remember Bo once saying the helicopter bill was pretty large and was passed on. I know Zion NP sometimes (always?) uses a private helicopter company for rescue work and that bill, I was told, is passed on. At least some of the time....

And a little FYI: The two copters that crashed recently were used for Zion and Grand Canyon rescues.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/29/helicopter.crash/index.html


Medical helicopters collide, killing at least 6

CNN -- At least six people were dead and one critically injured Sunday after a midair crash between two medical helicopters near a hospital in Arizona, authorities said.

Rescue workers sift through wreckage from two medical helicopters that collided midair Sunday afternoon.

The collision, at Flagstaff Medical Center in Flagstaff, Arizona, set fire to a 10-acre area, according to fire officials, and another two rescue workers were injured by a secondary explosion after the crash.

The helicopters collided at roughly 3:45 p.m. local time, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.

"As you can imagine, we've got lots of heaps of metal to go through," said Capt. Mark Johnson of the Flagstaff Fire Department. "It's just difficult right now."

He said a landing pad on the roof of the hospital is used by medical helicopters.

Federal Aviation Authority officials originally had reported at least seven deaths and three critical injuries, but they revised those numbers after investigators spent more time on the scene.

Flagstaff Police Department Sgt. Tom Boughner said the two rescue workers were not immediately believed to be seriously injured. He said the helicopters crashed into a wooded area near a neighborhood and that no one on the ground was believed to have been injured or killed in the crash.

He said the fire had been contained by Sunday evening.

FAA spokesman Ian Gregor said at least one of those killed in the collision was a patient.

He said three of those killed, including the patient, were aboard a Bell 407 helicopter operated by Air Methods Corporation, an air medical service provider. The other helicopter, operated by Classic Helicopter Service of Utah, also was a Bell 407. The other four victims, including the one critically injured, were on that helicopter.

Both helicopters were headed to the hospital at the time of the crash, Gregor said.

FAA safety inspectors from Phoenix, Arizona, were en route to the scene Sunday, and additional inspectors from Washington were expected to arrive Monday morning. The National Transportation Safety Board will lead a probe into the crash, Gregor said.

[shaggy125]

The one survivor was an ER nurse at the Hospital I work at, although he's extremely critical. Very sad.

[snatch]

or a series of ledges before the bolts allows the more agile to downclimb and traverse ledges to drop to the canyon floor 20 feet (6m) close to the base of the waterfall.

Yeah.... Tom might want to reconsider posting those words of wisdom.....

Sometimes there is a log propped up where Tom is talking and the down climb is pretty easy... the ledge Tom is talking is the nose (on the right) with the sun on it three pools behind the woman. At least that is where we have DCed before.

:cool2:

"DCed" = Dumb Cabroned break your leg?
"DCed" = Daringly Carefree jack up my ankle ?
"DCed" = Dangerously Courageous oh my f@#$ing leg, I'm coming out of the booooof?
"DCed" = Damn Cool I am, my luck I'll press?
"DCed" = Douche Clown this rap, I'm better than this?
"DCed" = Duely Concerned, but I'll do it anyway?

Please elaborate, I'm completely 100% absolutely lost.

[trackrunner]

Please elaborate, I'm completely 100% absolutely lost.

I believe DCed = down climbed

[Sombeech]

District of Columbia

[snatch]

Please elaborate, I'm completely 100% absolutely lost.

I believe DCed = down climbed

ahhh, down climbed. now i' see... thank you for the elaboration. why such the oxymoron? down - the opposite of up. climb - tO AsCeNd. this bassackwards lingo constantly continues to confuse me.

[Iceaxe]

:roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Hey Snatch.... where have you been hiding?

Let's go do the Ice Caves!!!!! I'm free most of July.

:popcorn:

[Bo_Beck]

Maybe Bo can shed some light on my question here:

When NPS rescues somebody, does the rescuee get sent a bill to cover expenses incurred during the operation? Or does the NPS foot the bill?

I can speak for the cases in Zion. No, the rescuees are not charged with the flight time or man hours. There have been times that a "citation" has been issued for negligence, etc., but the fine wouldn't even put a minute dent in the cost of operation. There is a general special fund set aside in the NPS that is used to fund SAR operations. If the rescuee is gracious they will sometimes send funds directly to the park which are then used to upgrade equipment. This doesn't happen often though.

I understand that other National Parks might operate differently though, i.e., Grand Canyon may or may not send a bill to the rescuee? It would be interesting to know if Alan and Iris recieved a bill?

[Iceaxe]

FWIW: I understand Grand County (Moab) sends a bill for SAR.

I believe they are the only ones in Utah who send a SAR bill.

:popcorn:

[Deathcricket]

Interesting, when I was in Subway last... I think September... The day before they did the controlled burn last year.... Anyways, there was a fat lady with a twisted ankle down there just before the nasty exit portion. There were a couple rangers and a medic wrapping her ankle up with an ace bandage. He specifically told her "OK you can try and hike up, just go nice an slow and you'll be fine. Or you can have us call a helicopter to lift you out and it will cost you $15,000 for a rescue. They can be here in about half hour if you like." She said "Ok let me just rest it for an hour or so and we'll see how it goes".

I guess he could have just been telling her that since he suspected her injuries weren't that bad and she was a whiner? But we were all joking to ourselves after we left "Unless a bone was popping out on both legs, screw paying that kinda cash". But that's why I always thought the "patient" was charged. As they should be IMO.


Edit: Just re-read it and it mught sound like I'm arguing with BO. Obviously he is the master rescue-er. So i consider him to be fact. I just heard the ranger say it and to an actual "rescue-ee" with another ranger and 1st aid person standing there and thought his words were a fact till now.
:hail2thechief: :hail2thechief: :hail2thechief:

[moabfool]

This just goes to show how conditions change and must be assesed every time somebody attempts a canyon or any outdoor activity. Last November this same hole was about 8 feet deep. I jumped in from the edge of hole just to check. I thought about jumping into it from the ledge above but decided against it because of the high PFF. I did the downclimb (not the handline) instead. I can see how an ankle could get twisted pretty badly.

[ratagonia]

Interesting. I'm assuming this is the spot

Now that some time has passed, please allow me to fulfill by designated role... :nono:

I know Bo disagrees, but I RAPPEL in the Subway and wear a helmet, and suggest that WHEN TAKING NOOBIES YOU DON'T KNOW, it is irresponsible to do otherwise. Handlining that last drop - are you CRAZY? or just STUPID??? :ne_nau:

People DO handline it all the time - and people crash and burn there on a regular basis, because handlining is not a very predictable technique. Quite a few rescues there each year (as well as at the first boulder).

We got this technique called RAPPELLING. Works like a charm. Does not depend on inordinate handstrength-to-weight ratio. Requires a tiny amount of equipment.

And NO! the Lord shall not provide, in all cases.

Tom (aka the Helmet Police, aka the Handline Police).

[ratagonia]

Maybe Bo can shed some light on my question here:

When NPS rescues somebody, does the rescuee get sent a bill to cover expenses incurred during the operation? Or does the NPS foot the bill?

I can speak for the cases in Zion. No, the rescuees are not charged with the flight time or man hours. There have been times that a "citation" has been issued for negligence, etc., but the fine wouldn't even put a minute dent in the cost of operation. There is a general special fund set aside in the NPS that is used to fund SAR operations. If the rescuee is gracious they will sometimes send funds directly to the park which are then used to upgrade equipment. This doesn't happen often though.

I understand that other National Parks might operate differently though, i.e., Grand Canyon may or may not send a bill to the rescuee? It would be interesting to know if Alan and Iris recieved a bill?

As a general policy, rescues in the USA are provided by government agencies and volunteer organizations free of charge. In the NPS lands, rescuees can be charged if they are successfully cited for illegal activity; but the NPS does not actively pursue the claim. In some Counties, citation of rescuees is part of the process in an attempt to collect for the rescue - ask the Arharts about that!!

You essentially pay rescue insurance - every time you pay a local, state and federal tax. Part of the services provided. Most of the most expensive rescuees the public finds quite sympathetic. In Utah, it seems to mostly be Boy Scouts who wander away from camp in the Uintahs, and snowmobilers who's engine konks out deep in the backcountry. It's not just us reckless adrenaline junkies, but also and mostly your general solid-citizen types who are enjoying a streak of bad luck or being "a might confused" about where they are.

If you get rescued by a private heli service in the GC, they will dun your health insurance company for ambulance service. Since that's what they did.

Tom

[Deathcricket]

Now that some time has passed, please allow me to fulfill by designated role... :nono:

I know Bo disagrees, but I RAPPEL in the Subway and wear a helmet, and suggest that WHEN TAKING NOOBIES YOU DON'T KNOW, it is irresponsible to do otherwise. Handlining that last drop - are you CRAZY? or just STUPID??? :ne_nau:

People DO handline it all the time - and people crash and burn there on a regular basis, because handlining is not a very predictable technique. Quite a few rescues there each year (as well as at the first boulder).

We got this technique called RAPPELLING. Works like a charm. Does not depend on inordinate handstrength-to-weight ratio. Requires a tiny amount of equipment.

And NO! the Lord shall not provide, in all cases.

Tom (aka the Helmet Police, aka the Handline Police). :roflol: :roflol: :roflol:

Also people, be sure to wear a seatbelt WHEN YOU DRIVE!

[Iceaxe]

We spent this past weekend in the Teton's and ran into Teton Search and Rescue doing some at Wind Cave. Out of curiosity I asked if they billed for rescues... their reply was... they bill for the helicopter if one is used..... (they bill for nothing else) they told me they list the copter on the bill as "Air Ambulance" and that many insurance companies will cover the cost of the copter if it's listed that way.... they also mentioned they don't always collect for the copter.

Just thought it was interesting and relevant to this thread.

:cool2: