Pinecreek June 8th NOOBFEST

[Jaxx]

Chabidiah(Chad), chabbies wife (Em), Tyson, Emma, Don, Josh, canyongirl(Steph), and I(Nick) did Pinecreek on Sunday 6/8 for the noobfest.

It was a great group. Don and Josh are awesome. Very funny.
We got on the trail at about 9ish and met up with a group of 3 at the first rap. everything was dry until the cathedral. Chabidiah and I did a simul rap there. Steph went through the arch so she didn't have to get wet and Emma followed. Chad carried Em through the water so she didn't have to get wet either. All the guys wanted to do the "full meal deal" so we all swam that first pool. I added a little back float and noone would follow. The drop after that we decided to stay in the water route and the girls all got rides on the shoulders to stay dry. Hit the second to last rap wet and a little cold wishing there was sun down there.
When Chad set up the last rap the rope ends were about 1 ft off the water, my rope has shrunk a little. The rap was awesome! No matter how many rappels I do I can't shake my fear of heights.
The boulder hopping hike out was longer than I remember but we hit the first pool and Steph and I were in the back we decided to just go through it. Well I saw the trail to the left but didn't tell Steph it was there, she wasn't too mad.
Caught up with Chad, Em, Don, and Josh at a skinnier hole that they were jumping in. Don was using the "kiddie step" :haha: Everyone jumped in and then we caught up to Tyson and Emma that had found a snake, cool!
Got to the last jump-in pool at about 1:30. Not too bad for eight people. Had a blast jumping in. A perfect end to a perfect weekend.

Will add pics later. I brought the camera just not the right cable. Hopefully Chabidiah has some pics to post.

[chabidiah]

Chabbies wife is now alpinebutterfly. I finally got her to join up. We had a blast meeting some "bogers" and hope to do it again sometime. I will post some pics shortly..

[chabidiah]

We had a blast on Pine and the wives loved it too. They were happy about the short approach. Here are some pics..

[chabidiah]

movie time:
http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk39/chabidiah/?action=view&current=MVI_1483.flv

[Jaxx]

here is the link to the video:
http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk39/chabidiah/?action=view&current=MVI_1483.flv

[josh]

Great report i loved the duel rap! I had a great time. It was great getting a chance to meet such good people . Hope to see you all in another canyon. Always up for a climb up AF canyon.
:five:

[alpine butterfly]

Hey everyone, my name is Em I am Chabidiahs wife. (first time poster) The noobfest was super fun, a ton of fun people and cool canyons. Can't wait to do it again.

[tanya]

Welcome to the group Em! It was nice meeting you at the fest. I hope you stick around and post and come to more events. :2thumbs:

[Jaxx]

I didn't get any pics of Don, Josh, Emma, or Tyson sorry guys.

Em(alpinebutterfly) in cathedral
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/3Emcathedral.jpg

Steph(canyongirl) in cathedral. Also a movie of her going around to stay dry. Is that how it is normally done? looks akward.
starting
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/5StephCathedralrap.jpg
<embed>
and made it
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/7Stephdryoncathedralrap.jpg

Chad(chabidiah) carrying Em. All the girls got a ride on this part. Chad also carried Em in the cathedral, what a sweetheart!
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/10Chadcarryingem.jpg

Em on last rap
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/11Emonlastrap.jpg

Steph going down
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/13Stephonlastrap.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/15Stephonlastrap.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/17Stephonlastrap.jpg

Nick and Chad having fun at the end. In the pic with me doing a retarded wannabe flip if you look behind my and up to the left a little you can see sand on the rock. Chad was throwing sand up from behind and we would slide on the sand into the water, fun stuff. Chad also got a little flat rock and tried to "skateboard" down the rock. He came off the rockboard and was running down looking back at the rock like "WTF was I thinking. I hope that rock doesn't hit me in the head". very funny, at the time.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/18Nickflipping.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/jaxpb03/Pinecreek%206-8-08/19NickChadinwater.jpg

[Iceaxe]

Hey everyone, my name is Em I am Chabidiahs wife. (first time poster) The noobfest was super fun, a ton of fun people and cool canyons. Can't wait to do it again.

Welcome to the group.

:2thumbs:

[Chungy22]

Those are some great pictures! I really want to do this canyon. It looks like a lot of fun! We will have to do it during the summer when it is warmer though. All that water sounds cold to me!

[tanya]

Welcome to the Group! :2thumbs:

[jman]

You have to pinecreek just after a rainfall. Different environment, completely flooded, just incredible! It's still fun when it's dry, but completely flooded is best.

BTW - do most people continue on down after the final free-rappel down to the big swimhole, or do most escape and climb up the hill to the road, just after?

[ratagonia]

You have to pinecreek just after a rainfall. Different environment, completely flooded, just incredible! It's still fun when it's dry, but completely flooded is best.

BTW - do most people continue on down after the final free-rappel down to the big swimhole, or do most escape and climb up the hill to the road, just after?

um....

There's two ways outta there after the final rap:

1. take the CLOSED trail up onto the shoulder and a long way across rugged terrain to the upper switchback at the road. It is closed because it crosses some rugged places where the trail was making ugly scars, and stabilizing the trial in these places would be very difficult.

2. boulder-hop down the canyon, weaving in and out for about an hour, sometimes two hours, to a large pool with a BIG rock upstream - the Pine Creek swimming hole. From here, a trail exits left up to the road at the second switchback.

As the first one is closed, it should only be used in REAL emergencies. A jump into the swimming hole is often a good idea, though there are two rocks down there barely visible from above, that one has to jump inbetween.

Tom :moses:

[Rob L]

November 2009: In a thin wetsuit, the day after it's flooded, one freezes ones knackers off, the whole route, and changes into (hopefully) dry clothes after the last rap, and make ones way to the hairpin on the scree slope.

Upon which one hopes ones car will start, so as to offer a small offering of warmth.

The swimhole can disappear up its own arse after a freezing trip like that!

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/868mick/Dscf0284reduced.jpg

[jman]

um....

There's two ways outta there after the final rap:

1. take the CLOSED trail up onto the shoulder and a long way across rugged terrain to the upper switchback at the road. It is closed because it crosses some rugged places where the trail was making ugly scars, and stabilizing the trial in these places would be very difficult.

2. boulder-hop down the canyon, weaving in and out for about an hour, sometimes two hours, to a large pool with a BIG rock upstream - the Pine Creek swimming hole. From here, a trail exits left up to the road at the second switchback.

As the first one is closed, it should only be used in REAL emergencies. A jump into the swimming hole is often a good idea, though there are two rocks down there barely visible from above, that one has to jump inbetween.

Tom :moses:

Hmm...I've never tried the exit after the rappel to your left. And didn't realize it was closed. Thanks for the heads up! I've always gone down rock hopping to the fun swimhole (although, like you said, have to be careful of two big boulders). In my 8+ trips through Pinecreek, nearly all people I've seen just exiting the last rappel take the route to the top of the road...

Besides, that swimhole is great even if you are not doing any canyons and have a few hours to waste. Park at the "parking lot" at the hair-pin curve, and walk down the trail on the otherside of the retaining wall. After a 5min walk, you'll be there. Can't get much better than that...

[ratagonia]

In my 8+ trips through Pinecreek, nearly all people I've seen just exiting the last rappel take the route to the top of the road...


My apologies but, I do not understand this sentence. Could you be more explicit? Sounds like you are saying people head uphill at the end of the last rap and end up on the road. There are a few obstacles in the way.

T

[Iceaxe]

Besides, that swimhole is great even if you are not doing any canyons and have a few hours to waste.

"Back in the day...." before canyoneering in Zion was popular we used to catch a lot of folks skinny dipping in that swimming hole. It was pretty funny.... folks would always set up so they could keep an eye on the trail descending from the switchback but would never look behind them in the direction that canyoneers come from.... We got a couple nice shows outta the deal before word spread that the skinny dipping hole was now being invaded by nerds wearing neoprene and carrying ropes.....

[jman]

In my 8+ trips through Pinecreek, nearly all people I've seen just exiting the last rappel take the route to the top of the road...


My apologies but, I do not understand this sentence. Could you be more explicit? Sounds like you are saying people head uphill at the end of the last rap and end up on the road. There are a few obstacles in the way.

T

Sorry, I tend to speak/type faster than my brain thinks. I was saying through my 8+ journeys through Pinecreek - I have noticed that most people after finishing the last rappel head directly toward the road...on the CLOSED path, that you mentioned earlier.

I didn't say this in my previous post, but is there a closed sign there? Because if there wasn't, you would think the Rangers would be more aggressive in tackling that social trail "problem".

[jman]

Besides, that swimhole is great even if you are not doing any canyons and have a few hours to waste.

"Back in the day...." before canyoneering in Zion was popular we used to catch a lot of folks skinny dipping in that swimming hole. It was pretty funny.... folks would always set up so they could keep an eye on the trail descending from the switchback but would never look behind them in the direction that canyoneers come from.... We got a couple nice shows outta the deal before word spread that the skinny dipping hole was now being invaded by nerds wearing neoprene and carrying ropes.....

haha, I can imagine that.

[Iceaxe]

but is there a closed sign there? Because if there wasn't, you would think the Rangers would be more aggressive in tackling that social trail "problem".

This is what is so stupid about the current permit system.... the permit system was originally put into place so rangers and canyoneers could interact and information like avoiding this emerging social trail could distributed.... but now the permit system has just turned into an unwieldily monster who's original purpose has been lost to those in power. The only thing of importance anymore is that the permit system provide a revenue stream....

:roll:

[jman]

but is there a closed sign there? Because if there wasn't, you would think the Rangers would be more aggressive in tackling that social trail "problem".

This is what is so stupid about the current permit system.... the permit system was originally put into place so rangers and canyoneers could interact and information like avoiding this emerging social trail could distributed.... but now the permit system has just turned into an unwieldily monster who's original purpose has been lost to those in power. The only thing of importance anymore is that the permit system provide a revenue stream....

:roll:

Good point. I agree. That was the first time in Tom's post that I read it was "closed". To be fair, should there be a list of ALL closed signs. No I think it's pretty explanatory when you come across one. And both, Tanya and you Shane, oh and Tom, do a good job in betas to tell us to stay in the watercourse to avoid "social trails" and further prevent errosion. Other than that, besides those beta-retrieving sources, there is no other way that tells us of these "problems". Again, when I retrieve permits from the backcountry desk, or print them on my own using the express permits, I don't see any pertintent information saying "stay in watercourse after last rappell - do NOT head up to the road, etc."

So the rangers can't blame us if they don't tell us (and visa versa) ...right? or am I missing some key information here?

[ratagonia]

Sorry, I tend to speak/type faster than my brain thinks. I was saying through my 8+ journeys through Pinecreek - I have noticed that most people after finishing the last rappel head directly toward the road...on the CLOSED path, that you mentioned earlier.

I didn't say this in my previous post, but is there a closed sign there? Because if there wasn't, you would think the Rangers would be more aggressive in tackling that social trail "problem".

There WAS a closed sign there, but the BC desk does not maintain closed signs very well. Also, there is more than one path up to the bench.

By the by, "head directly up towards the road" is very misleading, one reason I could not understand your questions previously. It heads up to a path that eventually gets to the road. Takes 45 minutes at a good pace, so it is not like the road is right there!

Don't encourage them!!! :nono:

Tom :moses:

[jman]

Sorry, I tend to speak/type faster than my brain thinks. I was saying through my 8+ journeys through Pinecreek - I have noticed that most people after finishing the last rappel head directly toward the road...on the CLOSED path, that you mentioned earlier.

I didn't say this in my previous post, but is there a closed sign there? Because if there wasn't, you would think the Rangers would be more aggressive in tackling that social trail "problem".

There WAS a closed sign there, but the BC desk does not maintain closed signs very well. Also, there is more than one path up to the bench.

By the by, "head directly up towards the road" is very misleading, one reason I could not understand your questions previously. It heads up to a path that eventually gets to the road. Takes 45 minutes at a good pace, so it is not like the road is right there!

Don't encourage them!!! :nono:

Tom :moses:

Well it's not my fault with the "closed" trail. I was just asking what the preferred trail after the last rappel at Pinecreek is. Then you told me it was "closed" after I've seen gaggles of people heading towards the bench right after the rappel.

And I don't believe I'm encouraging anyone - directly - to take that trail. I made reference to the trail there, and yes I would imagine it would take a good while to escape that route. But they sure are missing a great part - all the boulder-hopping, wading and swimming by bypassing the swimhole.

And you are indirectly encouraging people by saying that route should be used as an emergency. People, will take it, thinking that its AlWAYS an emergency to take it. And how many times have I been on a hike where there is a sign that says "no trail - revegetation area" in the Wasatch mountains? Every trail. And at every sign, you always see fresh footprints beyond the sign - ignoring the sign.

So, with that - even if there is a sign at the end, will it prevent people from hiking up on it? No. One option, is to have no sign, and let it be and hope for the best? Or another option, is to have that part, slightly developed by the park - so people who want to escape, can take that route or the one that ends at the swimhole. What would be wrong with that option? Just thinking outside the box here.

[ratagonia]

Well it's not my fault with the "closed" trail. I was just asking what the preferred trail after the last rappel at Pinecreek is. Then you told me it was "closed" after I've seen gaggles of people heading towards the bench right after the rappel.

And I don't believe I'm encouraging anyone - directly - to take that trail. I made reference to the trail there, and yes I would imagine it would take a good while to escape that route. But they sure are missing a great part - all the boulder-hopping, wading and swimming by bypassing the swimhole.

And you are indirectly encouraging people by saying that route should be used as an emergency. People, will take it, thinking that its AlWAYS an emergency to take it. And how many times have I been on a hike where there is a sign that says "no trail - revegetation area" in the Wasatch mountains? Every trail. And at every sign, you always see fresh footprints beyond the sign - ignoring the sign.

So, with that - even if there is a sign at the end, will it prevent people from hiking up on it? No. One option, is to have no sign, and let it be and hope for the best? Or another option, is to have that part, slightly developed by the park - so people who want to escape, can take that route or the one that ends at the swimhole. What would be wrong with that option? Just thinking outside the box here.

No no no no no!! Don't encourage the PARK to have more enforcement - they've done enough damage already!!

They should keep their signs up to date, and they should put a note on the Pine Creek permit saying "stay in the watercourse".

And for those listening in - in Summer, the trail is REALLY HOT. Don't go that way! It sucks.

T :moses:

[jman]

Well it's not my fault with the "closed" trail. I was just asking what the preferred trail after the last rappel at Pinecreek is. Then you told me it was "closed" after I've seen gaggles of people heading towards the bench right after the rappel.

And I don't believe I'm encouraging anyone - directly - to take that trail. I made reference to the trail there, and yes I would imagine it would take a good while to escape that route. But they sure are missing a great part - all the boulder-hopping, wading and swimming by bypassing the swimhole.

And you are indirectly encouraging people by saying that route should be used as an emergency. People, will take it, thinking that its AlWAYS an emergency to take it. And how many times have I been on a hike where there is a sign that says "no trail - revegetation area" in the Wasatch mountains? Every trail. And at every sign, you always see fresh footprints beyond the sign - ignoring the sign.

So, with that - even if there is a sign at the end, will it prevent people from hiking up on it? No. One option, is to have no sign, and let it be and hope for the best? Or another option, is to have that part, slightly developed by the park - so people who want to escape, can take that route or the one that ends at the swimhole. What would be wrong with that option? Just thinking outside the box here.

No no no no no!! Don't encourage the PARK to have more enforcement - they've done enough damage already!!

They should keep their signs up to date, and they should put a note on the Pine Creek permit saying "stay in the watercourse".

And for those listening in - in Summer, the trail is REALLY HOT. Don't go that way! It sucks.

T :moses:

My misunderstading Tom. The park - I concur wholeheartedly. The permit and backcountry system has gotten out of hand!

2010 - Time for a revolution of Zion !!!!!

[trackrunner]

2010 - Time for a revolution of Zion !!!!!

Well you can pack heat in NP now. Viva la revolution canyoning en Zion